TAW122

TAW122

Emissary of the right to die.
Aug 30, 2018
6,874
This two maybe three prong/part problem, and not only this, but it is also very infuriating and annoying at the same time. First off, the presumption of ignorance that people don't know the CTB prevention lifeline number (and now simplified) is just insulting towards our intelligence. Second, the presumption of wanting to get "help" when we really just want others to respect our choices when it comes to deciding our own bodily autonomy instead of being 'ill'. Finally, the presumption of gratitude is just outright arrogance and ignorance on the pro-lifers' part because for most of us who want to leave this life, we definitely don't want busybodies and goody-two shoes pro-lifers to interfere with our rights, therefore, we won't show gratitude but contempt, anger, and resentment!

The presumption of ignorance:
What do I mean by this? Many pro-lifers who pedal and parrot off the hotline are operating under a presumption that many people don't know the number or naively believe that we (pro-choicers) don't know of such a number. That couldn't be further from the truth because people who really want to die do NOT want anything or anyone to intervene against their efforts as that would be contradictory towards their (the pro-choicer's) end goal! Of course, many pro-choicers know the dreadful number and the last thing someone determined to die is to self-sabotage their own efforts!

The presumption of wanting help:
It is insidious and in bad faith to assume that just by providing help that said person or recipient (someone wanting to die, or a pro-choicer choosing death) would be receptive. This couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, just about anything that could go against or impede a pro-choicer's efforts to seek peace from suffering a determined pro-choicer wanting to exit suffering would make many efforts to avoid being intervened against! The last thing a determined pro-choicer seeking to die is to foil their own efforts! Pro-choicers are not stupid, and we know the outcomes to getting "help" or reaching out (and being 'too honest'). We also know from the experiences of others and that is an outcome that we don't want!

The presumption of gratitude:
This is also an inaccurate presumption that they (the person being intervened against) would later be thankful for having their attempt ruined and all consequences (financial, social, legal, medical, civil liberties, etc.) that follow are acceptable. If anything, for people who have been suffering indefinitely and already on the verge of CTB'ing would just tip the scales into CTB'ing, and for those who are going to CTB, they just have more resentment and bitterness from being intervened against and then suffering all the repercussions from their failed attempt! It is also delusional for pro-lifers to presume that all pro-choicers will express gratitude such that it is just a matter of time (be it weeks, months, or years), it's an unfalsifiable presumption because many people who are determined to die would only become bitter and angry for having failed due to the meddlesome actions of pro-lifers!

In the end it is presumptuous and disrespectful for pro-lifers to assume a lot of misconceptions about people wanting to die and even worse to parrot off and pedal useless numbers in the expectation that someone doesn't know or that someone would appreciate the shallow platitudes and drivel that would make things better. It's also insulting towards one's intelligence to presume that one isn't smart enough to know about it. Really, at best, these platitudes and meaningless lines of false hope spewed by pro-lifers do very little to change the situation and only serve to inflame the recipient, especially when the recipient is one that is determined to die. Most of us, especially those who are determined (including people on SaSu) KNOW about the resources, and the last thing WE as pro-choicers want is to be intervened against or do anything to sabotage our own plans to exit suffering! These pro-lifers would do better to understand that not everyone wishes to be saved, and not everyone is ignorant of the resources (we KNOW what resources there are and we DON'T WANT HELP!).
 
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R_N

R_N

-Memento Mori-
Dec 3, 2019
1,442
The whole concept of hotline always pissed me off because I can imagine people on the other side being completely ignorant.

Last thing I want to hear when I am suffering is people spewing their average limited views of life into my ear.
 
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Life

Life

Now I need a place to hide away
Oct 30, 2023
17
The whole concept of hotline always pissed me off because I can imagine people on the other side being completely ignorant.

Last thing I want to hear when I am suffering is people spewing their average limited views of life into my ear.
They get paid to listen to you, they don't really care
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,651
The whole concept of hotline always pissed me off because I can imagine people on the other side being completely ignorant.

Last thing I want to hear when I am suffering is people spewing their average limited views of life into my ear.
I've actually heard a lot of cases of people calling into those hotlines and being treated like shit.
 
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Life

Life

Now I need a place to hide away
Oct 30, 2023
17
I was hardly missing out then.
Sorry if it takes your hope away but I just see it as people trying to gaslight you into being normal they really would know or care if you died or give a flying fuck it's such a brutal reality
 
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R_N

R_N

-Memento Mori-
Dec 3, 2019
1,442
Sorry if it takes your hope away but I just see it as people trying to gaslight you into being normal they really would know or care if you died or give a flying fuck it's such a brutal reality
Nah it is fine. I already assumed it is all crap anyway which is why I said what I did in my first reply lol.

But it sucks thinking of people who reached out just to be treated like dirt on top of what I already assumed.
 
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stillvoices

stillvoices

Member
Oct 18, 2023
50
To me, I feel like it isn't "normal" to not want to die. It feels like they are delusional and trying to make us believe in their delusion. I called those hotlines when I was young and I felt more alone than before. I tell professionals the same thing. They don't work. Most of the time if they don't get it i just say yup, ok mhm. Till they stop talking. I have been in counseling since 11 and I really like the one I have now. I can talk to her about suicide and she makes sure I don't have a plan at the moment but she doesn't try to talk me out of it. She says I'm sorry your in so much pain. That helps. I'm allowed to feel it and not feel ashamed of it. Still want to eventually do it but this moment I'm ok. Maybe 10 minutes from now I won't but I still have the power to change my mind. I may not have a way but I'm searching for it. I have to wait 2 years to get the book that will give that way but in the meantime I at least have people here who understand.
 
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Spike Spiegel

Spike Spiegel

Member
Sep 26, 2022
71
I understand what you are saying but I think you are generalizing to much for the group of people who think they are helping. (I'm not referring to either party as pro life or pro choice since there are connotations with other social issues). Personally I think the hotline is a novel idea at best, good intentions that don't have the desired effect, even at time an inverse one. Here in the USA they rolled out new adds prompting you to "just talk to your friends" "Check in" I cringe at these adds more then anything. Peoples are at all deferent places on their mental health journey and it is likely their personal story is vastly different for another person. The choice of suicide can have philosophical connotations, be related to depression anxiety ptsd among tons of others. It sounds like you have been a part of our culture for some time and are informed on the various issues relating to it. But not everybody is at the point, many are just clueless grasping for anything to make sense. I'm not saying the hotline can help with this feeling but I genuinely do not feel there is this wide presumption of gratitude, more a total lack of understanding, at least in my experiences.

I do think the presumption of wanting help is real and can be extremally frustrating. I do believe that suicide is a right that everyone should have however, it is hard to watch people not be happy, specially when you care about them. It is selfish to try and keep somebody here because you want them here yet just letting them go is so hard. It would be even harder If I found out after the fact they did want help, as some do.

I hear what you are saying and if somebody who was uninformed clueless about the culture and a social media virtue signaler tried to approach me with any of the attitudes' you mentioned, I'm sure I would feel the same way.
 
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FuneralCry

FuneralCry

Just wanting some peace
Sep 24, 2020
38,938
I cannot stand it when the idea of suicide hotlines are pushed everywhere onto anyone who wants to die. Pro-life people should just learn to accept that not everyone wants to exist just because they do, they should mind their own business. I hate how they assume that their so called "help" is wanted when it wasn't even asked for in the first place. The decision to die should only ever be respected as after all we all have our right to die, it's compassionate to respect the right to die.
 
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