Discussion I'm becoming increasingly pro-Palestine

[Pessimist]

I live in Israel but I'm becoming increasingly pro-Palestine. I think the attacks on October 7 were horrific, but it doesn't give Israel the right to carpet bomb the Gaza Strip and kill many thousands of civilians. The far-right government in Israel seems determined to destroy both Hamas and Gaza, opposing any hostage deal that comes with a permanent ceasefire. In the meantime there's a catastrophic humanitarian crisis in Gaza and a threat of famine. Desperate Palestinians who have lost family members join militant groups to fight Israel. And now it looks like Netanyahu is trying to start a war in Lebanon and Iran as well.

 

[Agon321]

I do not support any side.
There is no "good" or "bad" side to this war.
In my opinion, supporting any side is wrong.

The fact is that the West (especially Great Britain) screwed up.
The West left this cauldron in chaos and without a clear solution.
We see the consequences today.

To be honest, I do not know how to solve this problem in a sensible way.
Is it possible in a bloodless way? I do not know. I do not think so.
Violence is inevitable.

 

[yellowjester]

Wow, someone on the internet changing their mind about something. How refreshing. People are so hard-headed these days.

 

[Pessimist]

I do not support any side.
There is no "good" or "bad" side to this war.
In my opinion, supporting any side is wrong.

The fact is that the West (especially Great Britain) screwed up.
The West left this cauldron in chaos and without a clear solution.
We see the consequences today.

To be honest, I do not know how to solve this problem in a sensible way.
Is it possible in a bloodless way? I do not know. I do not think so.
Violence is inevitable.

Is there ever a "good" side?

 

[Agon321]

Is there ever a "good" side?

Subjectively, maybe yes.
Objectively, probably no.

War is not romanticism, but a bloody and brutal fight.
In such a scenario, neither side is sacred.

History is written by the winners.

 

[sugarb]

Is there ever a "good" side?

I mean, yeah. Auschwitz had a pretty clear-cut distinction between good and evil
though if you mean in war specifically and not just in history- sometimes. But even the most justified and "good" sides will have individuals among them who're bad in some way

 

[jar-baby]

I don't feel like I'm educated enough to have a strong stance on the issue but I know you've made a lot of pro-Israel posts in the past (that I would've thought indicated dogmatism or at least intransigence), so props for being able to alter your position.

 

[LiuKang]

> colonises land with no claim
> attacks first
> begins losing war
> calls it genocide

 

[Aloneandinpain]

Even other Muslim countries hate Palestinians. I'm no fan of Israel but there's no greater evil on this earth than Islam

 

[astr4]

imagine if i pulled up to ur house and i was like bro this is my god given house tho the british decided it :/

and then u started punching me bc hey i'm literally squatting in ur house

but the world calls me the victim and you the villain bc ur muslim and that's a no-go

feelsbadman

 

[real human being]

I live in Israel but I'm becoming increasingly pro-Palestine. I think the attacks on October 7 were horrific, but it doesn't give Israel the right to carpet bomb the Gaza Strip and kill many thousands of civilians. The far-right government in Israel seems determined to destroy both Hamas and Gaza, opposing any hostage deal that comes with a permanent ceasefire. In the meantime there's a catastrophic humanitarian crisis in Gaza and a threat of famine. Desperate Palestinians who have lost family members join militant groups to fight Israel. And now it looks like Netanyahu is trying to start a war in Lebanon and Iran as well.

Wow, during our discussion you seemed so hard headed I didn't think you could change your mind.

 

[IBM0000]

Wow, during our discussion you seemed so hard headed I didn't think you could change your mind.

When society tells you one thing, you tend to really believe it....But when YOUR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES as someone who is suicidal due to multiutdes of reasons come into effect, you doubt these assumptions. You go through allll the dumb stages of despair. And finally, you reach acceptance. And pessismist, I am so happy for you :). You are really strong in that sense, that you overcame the israeli propaganda to have become someone better for society. Good for you.

Even other Muslim countries hate Palestinians. I'm no fan of Israel but there's no greater evil on this earth than Islam

That's not true. If you measure evil on standard measures and historical ones, Muslims werent responsible for both world wars. Not responsible for colonization of British India and the insane famine that followed. Not for the colonization of any country in modern history. Not for the current system that causes millions to die due to diseases, hunger and thirst. I am sorry, but I don't think it's fair that one 9/11 equals all that bs. Not even a million 9/11's. btw. Most 9/11 hijackers were saudi, and the us LOVES the saudis and never invaded saudia and their other middle east "allies".

 

[Pessimist]

Wow, during our discussion you seemed so hard headed I didn't think you could change your mind.

My disapproval of war crimes in Gaza doesn't mean that I agree with all of your positions. I remember that you made some baseless claims, including the idea that the UN is biased in favor of Israel (despite its known anti-Israel bias):

UN Watch Database

Each year, the UN General Assembly condemns Israel 20 times more than Iran, Syria & North Korea. Dictatorships like China, Venezuela & Saudi Arabia dominate key UN human rights bodies. See UN Watch’s latest facts & figures: unwatch.org/database.

unwatch.org

Systemic Anti-Israel Bias in the United Nations Institutional Apparatus - kohelet

New policy paper addresses systemic anti-Israel bias within the United Nations (UN) institutional apparatus which manifests in a number of areas.

www.kohelet.org.il

AIPAC Memo - Anti-Israel Action at the U.N. Since October 7 - February 2024.pdf | Powered by Box

aipacorg.app.box.com

 

[real human being]

My disapproval of war crimes in Gaza doesn't mean that I agree with all of your positions. I remember that you made some baseless claims, including the idea that the UN is biased in favor of Israel (despite its known anti-Israel bias):

UN Watch Database

Each year, the UN General Assembly condemns Israel 20 times more than Iran, Syria & North Korea. Dictatorships like China, Venezuela & Saudi Arabia dominate key UN human rights bodies. See UN Watch’s latest facts & figures: unwatch.org/database.

unwatch.org

Systemic Anti-Israel Bias in the United Nations Institutional Apparatus - kohelet

New policy paper addresses systemic anti-Israel bias within the United Nations (UN) institutional apparatus which manifests in a number of areas.

www.kohelet.org.il

AIPAC Memo - Anti-Israel Action at the U.N. Since October 7 - February 2024.pdf | Powered by Box

aipacorg.app.box.com

I'll take what I can get