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noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,375
I am German and we tend to be more in favor of Israel internationally speaking. However, polls show that Germans think the brutality of Israel is way too much.

I watch some American Youtubers and some of their takes sound insane to me. And some of them are sort of antisemitic.

The thing is I am exhausted like all the time. Some time ago I needed to vent every single day on this forum but I don't have it in myself anymore. But my suicidality still gets more and more concrete. Ideally, I had to give an in-depth explanation for all these hot takes but I will keep it short.

1. An American Youtuber with roundabout 2 millions subscribers claimed Hamas was a liberation movement and no terror organisation. How can you be that stupid? Hamas is using the Palestinian people as human shields. The leader of Hamas who is save in his mansion in Qatar said last December that "he is proud to sacrifice Gazan civilians" in order to defeat Israel. This disgusting piece of shit. The same Youtuber acted like there was no evidence for sexual violence against Israelian civilians on October 7th. I mean there is enough footage of that. I can remember the video of a young woman dragged by terrorists with her pants full of blood. However I heard concerns maybe some of the proof is not fully convincing. I have to dig into it for more information. But I saw videos of crisis workers who were responsible to clean up the mess and they described it very vividly and seemed to be pretty traumatized.

2. Comparing Israel with the nazis which is very common seems for me to be very antisemitic. The nazi ideology was deep rooted, the whole propaganda had only one goal the extermination of the Jews and other unworthy lives. The whole nazi apparatus a fascist dictatorship killed disabled, built concentration camps and so on. In my opinion we can argue whether Israel commits a genocide. We can debate whether it is an apartheid regime. If you support that in German public you can get into serious trouble. You might become a pariah. I would never speak openly without thinking twice about this topic where I live. I am not fully decided on it. And I have the feeling me as a German maybe I am not in the positon to decide it anyway. My point is: the comparison of Israel with the Nazis is bullshit. Israel is a somwhat liberal democracy. Israel is in constant danger because it is surrounded by enemies. If the US stopped to protect it the Arabian countries would invade it instantly and start an extermination campaign. I mean Iranian leaders annnounced they would like to nuke Israel if they had a bomb. The Israelian people are traumazized and anxious. People who are anxious and they are rightfully so anxious tend to extreme actions. This is no excuse for their actions against civilians but the motives of the Nazis were not at all similar to their's. I could go on with a long paragraph. But I need sleep.

3. Israel is doing everything to protect civilans. No certainly not. Civilian death rate at least 70% only counting women and children. I read it in a German scientifical article which proves how insane their logic is. So it is okay to kill all male Palestenian civilan over 18? What the fuck! There are just some positions in German media which are simply insane. People who give Israel a free pass for all of their actions no matter what they do. Especially in right wing media. Things like the Palestinian people is responsible for their own situation and not innocent at all. Well what about the children? The population is very very young. What about the women who have nothing to say? Do they count for you? The answer is seemingly no.

I could go on and on. But I need to rest.
 
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Malaria

Malaria

If I can't be my own, I'd feel better dead
Feb 24, 2024
1,023
Out of all the takes I have seen on this conflict, I think I might agree with yours the most. Not sure what else to add.
 
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Pessimist

Pessimist

Specialist
May 5, 2021
375
As an ethnic Jew I think it is heartwarming to see the German people condemning the Hamas massacre. Of course, innocent Palestinians who were bombed to death in Gaza should not be ignored, but I still didn't expect Germany to take a more pro-Israeli position, given the history.

I really want to address that first YouTuber you mentioned. Who is this guy? Hasan Piker? Hamas is far from a legitimate resistance organization:

1. The IDF is like an apple tree: there's always a possibility of rotten apples. An IDF soldier that is caught committing a crime, such as deliberately attacking unarmed civilians, goes to an Israeli military prison. On the other hand, Hamas obviously doesn't have military prisons for war crimes, and their entire charter is genocidal.

1711549142331 1711549148751

2. Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, is an unhinged murderer himsefl.

1711549290546

1711549471500

3. At this point I don't think you can deny Hamas using sexual violence as part of their attack. There's too much proof.

1711549444062


 
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N

noname223

Angelic
Aug 18, 2020
4,375
As an ethnic Jew I think it is heartwarming to see the German people condemning the Hamas massacre. Of course, innocent Palestinians who were bombed to death in Gaza should not be ignored, but I still didn't expect Germany to take a more pro-Israeli position, given the history.

I really want to address that first YouTuber you mentioned. Who is this guy? Hasan Piker? Hamas is far from a legitimate resistance organization:

1. The IDF is like an apple tree: there's always a possibility of rotten apples. An IDF soldier that is caught committing a crime, such as deliberately attacking unarmed civilians, goes to an Israeli military prison. On the other hand, Hamas obviously doesn't have military prisons for war crimes, and their entire charter is genocidal.

View attachment 133436View attachment 133437

2. Yahya Sinwar, the leader of Hamas, is an unhinged murderer himsefl.

View attachment 133439

View attachment 133441

3. At this point I don't think you can deny Hamas using sexual violence as part of their attack. There's too much proof.

View attachment 133440


The channel of this American YouTuber is called "Second Thought"

Here is the video I mentioned where he talks about the conflict.

 
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Pessimist

Pessimist

Specialist
May 5, 2021
375
The channel of this American YouTuber is called "Second Thought"

Here is the video I mentioned where he talks about the conflict.


1711551150833

Unfortunately the far-left is pro-Hamas, especially the communists.



And judging by comments they made in the past, it's difficult to argue that they are "anti-Zionist but not antisemitic"

1711551110576
 
Pessimist

Pessimist

Specialist
May 5, 2021
375
I am German and we tend to be more in favor of Israel internationally speaking. However, polls show that Germans think the brutality of Israel is way too much.

I watch some American Youtubers and some of their takes sound insane to me. And some of them are sort of antisemitic.

The thing is I am exhausted like all the time. Some time ago I needed to vent every single day on this forum but I don't have it in myself anymore. But my suicidality still gets more and more concrete. Ideally, I had to give an in-depth explanation for all these hot takes but I will keep it short.

1. An American Youtuber with roundabout 2 millions subscribers claimed Hamas was a liberation movement and no terror organisation. How can you be that stupid? Hamas is using the Palestinian people as human shields. The leader of Hamas who is save in his mansion in Qatar said last December that "he is proud to sacrifice Gazan civilians" in order to defeat Israel. This disgusting piece of shit. The same Youtuber acted like there was no evidence for sexual violence against Israelian civilians on October 7th. I mean there is enough footage of that. I can remember the video of a young woman dragged by terrorists with her pants full of blood. However I heard concerns maybe some of the proof is not fully convincing. I have to dig into it for more information. But I saw videos of crisis workers who were responsible to clean up the mess and they described it very vividly and seemed to be pretty traumatized.

2. Comparing Israel with the nazis which is very common seems for me to be very antisemitic. The nazi ideology was deep rooted, the whole propaganda had only one goal the extermination of the Jews and other unworthy lives. The whole nazi apparatus a fascist dictatorship killed disabled, built concentration camps and so on. In my opinion we can argue whether Israel commits a genocide. We can debate whether it is an apartheid regime. If you support that in German public you can get into serious trouble. You might become a pariah. I would never speak openly without thinking twice about this topic where I live. I am not fully decided on it. And I have the feeling me as a German maybe I am not in the positon to decide it anyway. My point is: the comparison of Israel with the Nazis is bullshit. Israel is a somwhat liberal democracy. Israel is in constant danger because it is surrounded by enemies. If the US stopped to protect it the Arabian countries would invade it instantly and start an extermination campaign. I mean Iranian leaders annnounced they would like to nuke Israel if they had a bomb. The Israelian people are traumazized and anxious. People who are anxious and they are rightfully so anxious tend to extreme actions. This is no excuse for their actions against civilians but the motives of the Nazis were not at all similar to their's. I could go on with a long paragraph. But I need sleep.

3. Israel is doing everything to protect civilans. No certainly not. Civilian death rate at least 70% only counting women and children. I read it in a German scientifical article which proves how insane their logic is. So it is okay to kill all male Palestenian civilan over 18? What the fuck! There are just some positions in German media which are simply insane. People who give Israel a free pass for all of their actions no matter what they do. Especially in right wing media. Things like the Palestinian people is responsible for their own situation and not innocent at all. Well what about the children? The population is very very young. What about the women who have nothing to say? Do they count for you? The answer is seemingly no.

I could go on and on. But I need to rest.
Out of all the takes I have seen on this conflict, I think I might agree with yours the most. Not sure what else to add.
After reading this article, I'm not sure I agree with you guys on the third point.

1711762076905
 
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slightoverlooked

slightoverlooked

Student
Dec 27, 2023
188
as a muslim living in germany: From the river to the sea Palestine will be free. if not then the world is a hopeless place. Germany is on the wrong side of history (again). The whole world is watching a genocide take place at this very moment.
After reading this article, I'm not sure I agree with you guys on the third point.

View attachment 133687
"Israel gave a warning" lmao before they bombed all those hospitals? "A total of 13,430 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip by Israeli airstrikes and ground operations since the start of the Israel-Hamas war on Oct." There r many Gazan reporters who show the reality. Israel is closing down roads so the people in gaza cant get any proper help...so many of them r gonna starve to death soon.
 
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Pessimist

Pessimist

Specialist
May 5, 2021
375
as a muslim living in germany: From the river to the sea Palestine will be free. if not then the world is a hopeless place. Germany is on the wrong side of history (again). The whole world is watching a genocide take place at this very moment.
As an ethnic Jew I think that you're not only on the wrong side of history, you're also antisemitic because you're calling for the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world, replacing it with yet another theocratic Islamic state. Also, why are the Islamists from Hamas massacring entire music festivals, raping women and kidnapping children?

1711763000058

1711763034854 1711763039124

"A total of 13,430 children have been killed in the Gaza Strip by Israeli airstrikes and ground operations since the start of the Israel-Hamas war on Oct."
The Gaza Health Ministry is controlled by Hamas; they have no credibility.


Bring them home now! 🇮🇱

1711763887602
 
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slightoverlooked

slightoverlooked

Student
Dec 27, 2023
188
As an ethnic Jew I think that you're not only on the wrong side of history, you're also antisemitic because you're calling for the destruction of the only Jewish state in the world, replacing it with yet another theocratic Islamic state. Also, why are the Islamists from Hamas massacring entire music festivals, raping women and kidnapping children?

View attachment 133688

View attachment 133689View attachment 133690
zionism does not equal Jewism. who owned that land before the jews from Europe went there? If jews who grew up in the time of the nazis go to protests and tell the gov to stop encouraging this genocide I dont see where I am wrong.
The Gaza Health Ministry is controlled by Hamas; they have no credibility.
oh yeah lol then all those videos r fake? these discussions dont lead anywhere anyway.
 
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Pessimist

Pessimist

Specialist
May 5, 2021
375
who owned that land before the jews from Europe went there?
If you knew history you would know the answer. British-controlled Palestine was given to the Jews after centuries of pogroms and antisemitic attacks. The State of Palestine was established in 1988; 40 years after the State of Israel.

1711764378864
1711764276744

If jews who grew up in the time of the nazis go to protests and tell the gov to stop encouraging this genocide I dont see where I am wrong.
If you want to talk about Holocaust survivors who are still alive, the vast majority of them live in Israel.
 
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SexyIncél

SexyIncél

🍭my lollipop brings the feminists to my candyshop
Aug 16, 2022
1,407
as a muslim living in germany: From the river to the sea Palestine will be free. if not then the world is a hopeless place. Germany is on the wrong side of history (again). The whole world is watching a genocide take place at this very moment.
Yeah, I was in Germany recently, and we passed through a pro-Palestinian demonstration right in the city center! Impressed by their courage, we participated. Reminds me to donate to effective groups that help Palestinians

Later, we ate at a nice Israeli restaurant, and when people randomly mentioned the genocide in natural conversation, no one minded. Even though the nearby temple naturally blared the usual propaganda. A couple lampposts had Palestinian solidarity stickers. I spoke with Germans sick of supporting those who shoot & starve people in a barrel. They learned about the dangers of propaganda in school & can smell it a mile away. They really understand how Germany's genociding Jews resulted in Israel's genociding Palestinians

I'd better look into buying/making some stickers & info supporting Palestinians; and distributing them, as my friends & I randomly go around. It's helpful that there's a motivated Israeli on this thread, who helps me understand the mindset

fwiw, they really should re-word the slogan slightly: "From the river to the sea, Palestinians will be free"
 
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Pessimist

Pessimist

Specialist
May 5, 2021
375
Yeah, I was in Germany recently, and we passed through a pro-Palestinian demonstration right in the city center! Impressed by their courage, we participated. Reminds me to donate to effective groups that help Palestinians
Was harassing Jews part of the demonstration?













They really understand how Germany's genociding Jews resulted in Israel's genociding Palestinians
Think for a second and stop repeating propaganda from TikTok. If Israel really wanted to commit genocide, it is clear that the first ones they would kill are the 2 million Palestinians who are citizens of Israel and live inside of Israel. Yet these Palestinians are totally safe and protected by the IDF.
 
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sserafim

sserafim

消えたい
Sep 13, 2023
7,400
Was harassing Jews part of the demonstration?














Think for a second and stop repeating propaganda from TikTok. If Israel really wanted to commit genocide, it is clear that the first ones they would kill are the 2 million Palestinians who are citizens of Israel and live inside of Israel. Yet these Palestinians are totally safe and protected by the IDF.

Why do people do things like that? It's like they're asking to get canceled. Lmao Oli London 🤣