If you’re from the NYT article

[Itsallover123]

Watch this lecture on suicide
Think about how we are all here right now. We made our own conscious decision to join the site and seek freedom from our pain, no one forced us to join. Not every case is the same, not everyone is in a fixable situation. We purposely hide our intentions from our loved ones so if you know someone who committed suicide and they seemed fine and you didn't think they had anything in their life to want to die over, well you probably didn't really know what they were going through at all. Obviously no one wants minors on a site like this because 99% of the time their issues are fixable. If it were up to me, all minors would have limited access to the internet. We should all have the ability to die peacefully because just like with abortion, if it's not allowed then people will do it anyways but much more dangerously. Also like abortion, we are saving ourselves from a life of suffering just like people are saving their unborn babies from being born with birth defects or born into bad family situations. Well thats about it, please consider that people with mental illnesses aren't stupider than you. We are humans and we can make our own decisions.

 

[FromGermany]

18. October 2016
NYT
Presidential Forecast
Clinton 91 %

So much for credibility of NYT.

 

[motel rooms]

There's not much point in trying to reason with these people...

 

[Circles]

They don't have the patience to have a rational discussion let alone listen the a video about the philosophy of suicide. It's literally like talking to a brick wall with these people.

 

[Chinaski]

Nobody is going to persuade any right-thinking person that suicide, itself a tragic and sad event, is something that should actually be supported, it's an absolutely futile endeavour.

 

[motel rooms]

Nobody is going to persuade any right-thinking person that suicide, itself a tragic and sad event, is something that should actually be supported, it's an absolutely futile endeavour.

Don't you consider pro-choice people right-thinking? Don't you think that our convictions are sensible?

 

[Itsallover123]

There's not much point in trying to reason with these people...

They don't have the patience to have a rational discussion let alone listen the a video about the philosophy of suicide. It's literally like talking to a brick wall with these people.

Nobody is going to persuade any right-thinking person that suicide, itself a tragic and sad event, is something that should actually be supported, it's an absolutely futile endeavour.

Might as well attempt to get people to see our side of things, these people are from the NYT not the 26

 

[motel rooms]

Might as well attempt to get people to see our side of things, these people are from the NYT not the 26

Yeah, we might as well attempt...

 

[Meditation guide]

You can never convince anyone that it's ok to discuss committing suicide unless they themselves have been there. Otherwise it's a waste of time to try.

People think talking about it makes people do it, not the other way around, that you wouldn't be talking about it at all unless you wanted to do it.

 

[RainAndSadness]

It would be very easy to convince people that the right to die is a human right. It's why they didn't talk with us. They're scared that we make our case.

Instead they use every single social-conservative strategy in the book to frame us as predators and potentially dangerous, character assassinate the site administrators, use a invalidating narrative that we can't make autonomous and consenting decisions, generalize the entire community and so on. The entire article is an appeal to emotion and neglects any rational and logical arguments for the case that this community has a right to exist, that the discussions in this forum are entirely valid and that the right to die is a basic human right in any compassionate society.

 

[motel rooms]

I agree …

Have you read the post you say you agree with carefully? Are you pro-choice?

 

[4eyebiped]

Instead of putting all the focus on the right to die, which I completely support the rights of, a lot of this website is about support. That is the part that is heavily overlooked. This is a place where others find comfort in finding those that can relate, those that listen and those that do not judge and lecture. Nothing is more powerful than seeing you are not alone.

Look at the dates of a lot of the active members here. They go back many years. If this site was about about death, then that would not be the case.

 

[RainAndSadness]

Nobody is going to persuade any right-thinking person that suicide, itself a tragic and sad event, is something that should actually be supported, it's an absolutely futile endeavour.

Switzerland disagrees. 3/4 of the population supports assisted suicide the way it currently exists. In many European countries that's the case. The right to die is a very popular concern in secular countries. This article was written from an American perspective. The majority of Americans are religious so there is an ideological confict with the right to die, which is an inherently secular issue and I wouldn't really consider Americans to be experts when it comes to human rights anyway, let's be honest. This article would be written very differently if it came from an European news outlet.

 

[motel rooms]

If this site was about about death, then that would not be the case.

This is a pro-choice site. It's about the right to choose to die. There's no reason to sugarcoat anything because we're doing nothing wrong.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

Watch this lecture on suicide
Think about how we are all here right now. We made our own conscious decision to join the site and seek freedom from our pain, no one forced us to join. Not every case is the same, not everyone is in a fixable situation. We purposely hide our intentions from our loved ones so if you know someone who committed suicide and they seemed fine and you didn't think they had anything in their life to want to die over, well you probably didn't really know what they were going through at all. Obviously no one wants minors on a site like this because 99% of the time their issues are fixable. If it were up to me, all minors would have limited access to the internet. We should all have the ability to die peacefully because just like with abortion, if it's not allowed then people will do it anyways but much more dangerously. Also like abortion, we are saving ourselves from a life of suffering just like people are saving their unborn babies from being born with birth defects or born into bad family situations. Well thats about it, please consider that people with mental illnesses aren't stupider than you. We are humans and we can make our own decisions.

That guy repeated himself in the video so much I thought I was going insane lol. But I guess it tells them something?

 

[Chinaski]

Switzerland disagrees. 3/4 of the population supports assisted suicide the way it currently exists. In many European countries that's the case. The right to die is a very popular concern in secular countries. This article was written from an American perspective. The majority of Americans are religious so there is an ideological confict with the right to die, which is an inherently secular issue and I wouldn't really consider Americans to be experts when it comes to human rights anyway, let's be honest. This article would be written very differently if it came from an European news outlet.

To be clear, l mean anybody posting a pro-choice essay, or video, or whatever, on this website, aimed at persuading any marauding pro-lifers is wasting their time, it's an arid discussion and people have made their minds up on this long before visiting this site.

 

[Meretlein]

There's not much point in trying to reason with these people...

I don't think there is much point either yet I don't think we should shy away from sharing philosophical talks about suicide. We need to criticize the idea that life is an inherent good and that those do not feel that way are pathologically out of touch with reality.

 

[HiImPaul]

If you're from the NYT article…




Deez nuts ha gottem

 

[ghostghirl]

Interesting that the NYT has not made commenting available for its article. Guess it is uninterested in hearing any thoughts other than its own POV.

 

[motel rooms]

I don't think there is much point either yet I don't think we should shy away from sharing philosophical talks about suicide. We need to criticize the idea that life is an inherent good and that those do not feel that way are pathologically out of touch with reality.

I agree.

Interesting that the NYT has not made commenting available for its article.

Yep, that decision speaks volumes.

 

[Chinaski]

I don't think there is much point either yet I don't think we should shy away from sharing philosophical talks about suicide. We need to criticize the idea that life is an inherent good and that those do not feel that way are pathologically out of touch with reality.

When put like this it's difficult to disagree, but the reality is there's a world of difference between sharing philosophical talks about suicide and puerile ranting about the fact that euthanasia isn't available at the local pharmacy because prolifers or whatever. I'd also say that the latter point re needing to reaffirm that we're not pathologically out of touch with reality, is essentially sound but is one that surely does not need to be routinely argued here, on an actual suicide forum.

 

[Meretlein]

When put like this it's difficult to disagree, but the reality is there's a world of difference between sharing philosophical talks about suicide and puerile ranting about the fact that euthanasia isn't available at the local pharmacy because prolifers or whatever. I'd also say that the latter point re needing to reaffirm that we're not pathologically out of touch with reality, is essentially sound but is one that surely does not need to be routinely argued here, on an actual suicide forum.

Arguing routinely arguing about suicidal people not being pathologically out of touch with reality wouldn't be productive for convincing prolifers yet exploring the topic would be useful, if only for ourselves.

I first joined when I was really young and while I was prochoice about suicide, my views on it were not totally fleshed out. I had trouble articulating the "why" for my beliefs. I like content such as this thread because it gets into the whys about creating a site like this. It may be valuable to only a few people yet that's all that's needed.

 

[ayb]

The world needs assisted-suicide laws like the Netherlands and Belgium.

Interesting that the NYT has not made commenting available for its article. Guess it is uninterested in hearing any thoughts other than its own POV.

So fucking true. I'm glad Canada is following the lead of NL and BE and making assisted-suicide available for severe refractory mental illnesses.

 

[Chinaski]

Arguing routinely arguing about suicidal people not being pathologically out of touch with reality wouldn't be productive for convincing prolifers yet exploring the topic would be useful, if only for ourselves.

I first joined when I was really young and while I was prochoice about suicide, my views on it were not totally fleshed out. I had trouble articulating the "why" for my beliefs. I like content such as this thread because it gets into the whys about creating a site like this. It may be valuable to only a few people yet that's all that's needed.

Again, that's difficult to disagree with - l think again this is about the quality of said posts, in my experience much of it is furious ranting about pro-life forces preventing us from ctb and the pointless complaining about the absence of free euthanasia on request - the reality is the only thing stopping any of us from ctb is ourselves, and much of the philosophy around this is froth.

 

[BeautifulMosaics]

Switzerland disagrees. 3/4 of the population supports assisted suicide the way it currently exists. In many European countries that's the case. The right to die is a very popular concern in secular countries. This article was written from an American perspective. The majority of Americans are religious so there is an ideological confict with the right to die, which is an inherently secular issue and I wouldn't really consider Americans to be experts when it comes to human rights anyway, let's be honest. This article would be written very differently if it came from an European news outlet.

A very important and reassuring point you make here, thank God. Even if some Americans aren't religious, there is a culture of sanctimoniousness and righteousness as well as black and white thinking in America, where people think they must pursue the "bad guys" and that they have the moral high ground - too simplistic to entertain alternative ideas.

 

[ENDOFTIME]

You can get assisted suicide for various chronic illnesses so why not psych chronic illness ...... spend a day in my head NYT reporters and you'll be ordering your own SN instead of preaching. People need relief in a world that has ever-dwindling hope for happiness.

 

[Flying Away]

Switzerland disagrees. 3/4 of the population supports assisted suicide the way it currently exists. In many European countries that's the case. The right to die is a very popular concern in secular countries. This article was written from an American perspective. The majority of Americans are religious so there is an ideological confict with the right to die, which is an inherently secular issue and I wouldn't really consider Americans to be experts when it comes to human rights anyway, let's be honest. This article would be written very differently if it came from an European news outlet.

The same people up in arms about suicide actively support the death penalty. Go figure

 

[Capsicum_Corral]

Don't you consider pro-choice people right-thinking?

Depends on the choice. Few are so isolated that their choices don't affect other people.

 

[Chinaski]

Don't you consider pro-choice people right-thinking? Don't you think that our convictions are sensible?

1) yes, and 2) depends entirely what you mean by "our convictions".

If you think you've a persuasive and impermeable argument that will win them over, be my guest - I'm not sure what there is to gain, neither of our suicides are going to be made easier for us as a result of fighting a futile political battle against the 95% of people who don't think suicide is all that great.

 

[Itsallover123]

1) yes, and 2) depends entirely what you mean by "our convictions".

If you think you've a persuasive and impermeable argument that will win them over, be my guest - I'm not sure what there is to gain, neither of our suicides are going to be made easier for us as a result of fighting a futile political battle against the 95% of people who don't think suicide is all that great.

Who's hurting you by having conversations with these people though? I've seen you make so many posts about how "futile" these efforts are, but why do you even care lol. Have you even watched the "youtube clip?" You say "be my guest" but you clearly have qualms over others talking about our right to die. Btw: talking to them is not as useless as you think, based on what I've seen new members say and what people on twitter have said, one even directly linking my thread.