Venting If things like addiction, suicidality, narcissism etc. are diseases, why are peoplemso judgmental then?

[KillingPain267]

Nobody condemns a cancer patient for being too weak to work or a dementia patient for being forgetful.

 

[weni]

People usually see cancer or dementia as diseases you can't control, but think mental illness is something you can. In other words, people treat those with mental illness like they're weak and lack the willpower to manage themselves.

 

[cookiencream]

Short answer: religion
Longer answer: People think of themselves as more than their biology. They believe they have a "soul". They don't consider the fact that the brain is exactly like every other organ. It can get sick. This is sort of a direct result of religion and spirituality which has caused most people to believe they're something special apart from their brain.

 

[R. A.]

Nobody condemns a cancer patient for being too weak

Yeah actually no, people actively harass and attack cancer patients.
If you're ill or disabled, people treat you like shit.

 

[KillingPain267]

People usually see cancer or dementia as diseases you can't control, but think mental illness is something you can. In other words, people treat those with mental illness like they're weak and lack the willpower to manage themselves.

And they are simply anti-science then, because it's been proven people's brains are different. There is no choice whatsoever.

Short answer: religion
Longer answer: People think of themselves as more than their biology. They believe they have a "soul". They don't consider the fact that the brain is exactly like every other organ. It can get sick. This is sort of a direct result of religion and spirituality which has caused most people to believe they're something special apart from their brain.

Good point. I actually believe in religion, but I have come to believe in physicalism in regards to humans. The idea of a "soul" is actually a misconception or mistranslation. The original Hebrew texts had no such dualism of a soul-body distinction. What's odd is that modern psychology still makes a huge distinction between mind and body, despite rejecting religion.

 

[TBONTB]

Nobody condemns a cancer patient for being too weak to work or a dementia patient for being forgetful.

Definitely agree there's a difference between obvious biological disease (cancer, dementia) and more subtle (mental illness)

In addition, I think people perceive brain diseases (mental illness) as something that can be treated. Like diabetes, perhaps. So they really want us to take our treatment and try to get better and condemn us for not improving.

 

[KillingPain267]

Yeah actually no, people actively harass and attack cancer patients.
If you're ill or disabled, people treat you like shit.

Yeah, okay. That doesn't surprise me at all. It's actually easy to find perceived causalities between diseases and lifestyle choices. Diabetes, heart patients and lung patients are often judged for having caused their diseases through lifestyle. Even if those causalities are not clear. Also, even if basically all diseases are a result of lifestyle, people should still forgive, tolerate and expend a helping hand, instead of judge. But what can I really expect from humans, lol.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I guess it partly depends on how impactful their 'disease' is on others. Is a cancer patient going about lying to everyone to destroy another person's reputation? Are they stealing from people to feed an addiction?

I think there's still an expectation that we should try to moderate what we know is bad behaviour. Especially when it is harmful to others. And I tend to not believe that all that is done unconsciously. It may be a compulsion but- we are able to break compulsions. People do quit addictive things. You can't quit cancer necessarily. So, the very act of knowingly doing harm against another person and then claiming you can't help it doesn't necessarily hold water.

That's not to say all people who have things like NPD or an addiction behave in those ways. The unfortunate thing is- if you've ever encountered a person whom you suspect does have those things and has behaved appallingly, it can leave you with a negative bias.

Some people's experiences are so extreme that a person has literally changed the course of their life. I became suicidal to begin with because of the behaviour of a (suspected) narcissist. I think simply out of self preservation, after such an experience, many 'victims' of these sorts of people are very cautious to avoid them in the future. Plus, be massively suspicious of them. Who wants to be hurt over and over?

 

[Nightfoot]

Lack of understanding and/or empathy.

 

[KillingPain267]

I guess it partly depends on how impactful their 'disease' is on others. Is a cancer patient going about lying to everyone to destroy another person's reputation? Are they stealing from people to feed an addiction?

I think there's still an expectation that we should try to moderate what we know is bad behaviour. Especially when it is harmful to others. And I tend to not believe that all that is done unconsciously. It may be a compulsion but- we are able to break compulsions. People do quit addictive things. You can't quit cancer necessarily. So, the very act of knowingly doing harm against another person and then claiming you can't help it doesn't necessarily hold water.

That's not to say all people who have things like NPD or an addiction behave in those ways. The unfortunate thing is- if you've ever encountered a person whom you suspect does have those things and has behaved appallingly, it can leave you with a negative bias.

Some people's experiences are so extreme that a person has literally changed the course of their life. I became suicidal to begin with because of the behaviour of a (suspected) narcissist. I think simply out of self preservation, after such an experience, many 'victims' of these sorts of people are very cautious to avoid them in the future. Plus, be massively suspicious of them. Who wants to be hurt over and over?

Well, there is brain cancer that can make a gentle quiet person vulgar and loud, for example. But I get that people might want to separate from such people. Everyone should have the right to association and disassociation. But society forces treatment and/or punishment on people who have behaviors that are hard to control consciously for them, and blame them when they predictably slip up. They are deemed immoral even though they can't really control it.

 

[fedup1982]

Nobody condemns a cancer patient for being too weak to work or a dementia patient for being forgetful.

Society still has a long way to go. Thankfully though, at least in the UK, mental health professionals and benefits authorities understand. They really get it thank fuck

 

[Forever Sleep]

Well, there is brain cancer that can make a gentle quiet person vulgar and loud, for example. But I get that people might want to separate from such people. Everyone should have the right to association and disassociation. But society forces treatment and/or punishment on people who have behaviors that are hard to control consciously for them, and blame them when they predictably slip up. They are deemed immoral even though they can't really control it.

I briefly worked with people with dementia- who could become violent. It wasn't exactly nice to be around but still, it was still easier to look beyond that. Some were frightened and no amount of explaining would get them to understand we were trying to help them. It was easier to feel pity towards them.

I think with certain personality disorders and even addiction, people can be extremely manipulative. I find it hard to believe they aren't conscious of what they're doing.

I'll accept they feel compelled to behave in that way. That they are being driven by very intense urges or paranoia or, whatever else. I'm not claiming to suffer as severley by any means but, I would say I've had borderline eating disorders and tend to be prone to limerence. Both of which create incredibly strong drives to think and do certain things. I don't think my 'issues' affected people enormously but, I could still recognise how toxic those two things were- to me. So, I did and do all I can to keep them under control.

Of the experiences I've had- (a likely) narcissist outright lied about me to anyone they could find. Especially people in authority. About a whole bunch of stuff- some of it fairly serious- that I hadn't done. Now, either they were delusional and they actually thought I had done those things. I tend to doubt that though. They would for example- genuinely damage work of mine and then, blame me for something worse as a smoke screen. That's being consciously mannipulative. Or- more likely- they knowingly did it. They surely know when they're gaslighting people. They must realise they're lying to someone or, about someone to create a reaponse. How do they justify that?

I'll accept it could be a desperate need for attention. I'll accept that a narcissist doesn't just appear. They must have endured sonething to create them but, even then- I think we do have knowledge of our own behaviour. It's like saying those who are sexually abused should be expected to then abuse others. Some do of course but plenty surely do all they can to ensure they don't inflict that harm on another. We know when we're doing something wrong- surely?

With actual brain injury, dementia etc. it is different because the person may literally not realise what they're doing. There was a poor and gentle soul who would keep asking people their names- literally every few minutes because they simply couldn't retain recent memories.

Of course, I still have pity for people who have had a rough life. For some, it does seem inevitable that certain conditions will develop. I still think we have a sense over when we do wrong and hurt others though. Of course, we all slip up now and then. I absolutely have. But then, I don't think it is always right to just excuse ourselves either.