Venting If only there were a universal income

[drownll]

For a lot of people here i imagine that the reason for ctb is financial
I don't want to build a family, i don't want to eat at restaurants, i don't want a big house, i just want to have my needs fulfilled and be able to play the latest video games isolated in a small comfortable appartment. That's essentially all i want. That for me is a life worth living. But even that is hard to get considering my starting point
I just don't want to work a soul crushing job 39h a week for the next 40 years. I can't stand people and i don't need social interraction.

 

[Tokugawa_Yoshinobu]

My problem is financial. My family lives from welfare and I grew up like that. Now that I've suffered so much I want not to work myself but I have to at some point because otherwise the financial means are cut off. This sucks.

Also get this: welfare recipients get the same amount of money as people with low income jobs if boiled down with taxes and stuff in my country. Why should I work then anymore? It's such nonsense.

 

[Homo erectus]

For a lot of people here i imagine that the reason for ctb is financial
I don't want to build a family, i don't want to eat at restaurants, i don't want a big house, i just want to have my needs fulfilled and be able to play the latest video games isolated in a small comfortable appartment. That's essentially all i want. That for me is a life worth living. But even that is hard to get considering my starting point
I just don't want to work a soul crushing job 39h a week for the next 40 years. I can't stand people and i don't need social interraction.

A safe, care-free place with unlimited internet access, together with good health, will probably reduce most need for ctb. Then l think, is this just the same as a virtual reality?

 

[Raven2]

I work part time because I dont particularly want to work all the goddamm time. I wouldnt make enough to live by myself if I worked a 40 hour week anyway. I have enough to pay the bill's and some left over.
I enjoy having the freedom, not that I do much with my free time but I dont enjoy a lot of social interaction either so I keep it to bare minimum.

 

[piryohae3]

This society produces a ton and wastes a ton. We could easily provide all basic necessities for every human on earth but this fucked up system requires exploitation. This fucked up system says by default you don't deserve to live bc you must earn it. The cost of living isn't worth the price. This is all so fucking stupid.

 

[greebo6]

Universal Income is a great idea and would , in my opinion ,be the basis of a truly fair and productive society. Sadly , at least in the country I live in , it will never be implemented.

 

[Argo]

It would take some pressure off but the fundamental problem would get worse. Some countries already have pretty good welfare systems where people get cash/food/housing assistance. It definitely helps give you space to not uhh... be forced into the rat race at the bottom of the human hierarchy, which is... extremely depressing and causes "lose-lose" conditions. That's why UBI is a win for both elites and non-elites , but ... ultimately it's a win for elites, I think, once the game gets fully fleshed out.

What ends up happening in UBI is the bottom rungs of humanity remain unhappy, they feel like zoo animals sitting there with their income and basic needs met. They are still at the bottom of society, they are still disconnected, dejected, rejected. Still, better to be in that state with needs met, than not, I guess. But maybe clawing for your own survival is enough of a distraction from the core problem that you somehow bizarrely suffer less without UBI than with it? Reality is often weird that way, and the road to hell is paved by good intentions

 

[drownll]

A safe, care-free place with unlimited internet access, together with good health, will probably reduce most need for ctb. Then l think, is this just the same as a virtual reality?

It is kinda, the goal is to minimize external corporeal things that remind you of your body and this shitty world.
Together with good health is very important since bad health and hygiene makes you feel physical discomforts and overall feeling of heaviness. My plan would be to meal prep for one week 2 big burritos a day OMAD, i put all the healthy things i need in these burritos and put it in the freezer

It would take some pressure off but the fundamental problem would get worse. Some countries already have pretty good welfare systems where people get cash/food/housing assistance. It definitely helps give you space to not uhh... be forced into the rat race at the bottom of the human hierarchy, which is... extremely depressing and causes "lose-lose" conditions. That's why UBI is a win for both elites and non-elites , but ... ultimately it's a win for elites, I think, once the game gets fully fleshed out.

What ends up happening in UBI is the bottom rungs of humanity remain unhappy, they feel like zoo animals sitting there with their income and basic needs met. They are still at the bottom of society, they are still disconnected, dejected, rejected. Still, better to be in that state with needs met, than not, I guess. But maybe clawing for your own survival is enough of a distraction from the core problem that you somehow bizarrely suffer less without UBI than with it? Reality is often weird that way, and the road to hell is paved by good intentions

That's what i want yes, i don't give a shit i don't want to participate in society
Youre talking in a scenario where UBI is forced unto the population. It's not what im talking about

This society produces a ton and wastes a ton. We could easily provide all basic necessities for every human on earth but this fucked up system requires exploitation. This fucked up system says by default you don't deserve to live bc you must earn it. The cost of living isn't worth the price. This is all so fucking stupid.

Exactly.
And with the advent of AI and tech in general i see more and more automation coming in the next years
UBI is technically possible and would accelerate the development of civilization. A lot of people are doing useless jobs that could be automated, because they have to. If there was UBI, they could have the time, energy and mental state to learn, pursue more useful jobs for humanity, to earn bonus money if they wish to travel or something.

 

[Homo erectus]

It is kinda, the goal is to minimize external corporeal things that remind you of your body and this shitty world.
Together with good health is very important since bad health and hygiene makes you feel physical discomforts and overall feeling of heaviness. My plan would be to meal prep for one week 2 big burritos a day OMAD, i put all the healthy things i need in these burritos and put it in the freezer

That's what i want yes, i don't give a shit i don't want to participate in society
Youre talking in a scenario where UBI is forced unto the population. It's not what im talking about

Exactly.
And with the advent of AI and tech in general i see more and more automation coming in the next years
UBI is technically possible and would accelerate the development of civilization. A lot of people are doing useless jobs that could be automated, because they have to. If there was UBI, they could have the time, energy and mental state to learn, pursue more useful jobs for humanity, to earn bonus money if they wish to travel or something.

It looks like technology is increasingly used for control. If technology is a kind of wealth, and people who own it don't share, the wealth gap will increase. They only show people a little to demonstrate what technology can do. People want more. In order to have more, they have to obey.

 

[UKscotty]

The government and rich want us dead though, by limiting the money they push more people to kill themselves.

A lot less people are having babies too as they can't afford it.

It's population control for the poor only.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I'd probably find a way to still suffer even when all my needs are met. It's not an excuse to not use this system though but I feel like people will still inevitably be disappointed by UBI in practice because of whatever other unforeseen consequences there may be. I'm too stupid to figure out exactly what could go wrong though but surely something would.

 

[Gonnerr]

Where i live the max you can have not working is around 1000$ per month, but they are going to push you to work if healthy.

 

[KANCEL]

I can't think of any scenario's that would be a life worth living to me. I look at others and can't understand why they think this is so great of an existence.

 

[drownll]

It looks like technology is increasingly used for control. If technology is a kind of wealth, and people who own it don't share, the wealth gap will increase. They only show people a little to demonstrate what technology can do. People want more. In order to have more, they have to obey.

The tech industry is a fairly open market, obviously there are regulations and patents etc... but we can see how quickly a technology is being reproduced and eventually avaiable to the public in open source. The private big tech companies will always be one step ahead but the independant companies and open source field is still evolving behind (DALL E 3 vs SD or MJ for exemple)

There are plenty of hardworking, active participants of society who're are unable to have their basic needs met. They are grouped in with what you consider the "bottom rungs of society" and have to suffer for it all the same. Giving people more breathing room - creates potential, it raises the chances of them recovering. I fail to see the net negative as giving people universal healthcare creates a positive domino effect, people would have more time for each other, themselves and what matters to them. And I'm sure there'd still be people who'd want to contribute to society regardless.

Exactly you worded it well.

The government and rich want us dead though, by limiting the money they push more people to kill themselves.

A lot less people are having babies too as they can't afford it.

It's population control for the poor only.

Ironically poor people tend to do more babies.

 

[Argo]

There are plenty of hardworking, active participants of society who're are unable to have their basic needs met. They are grouped in with what you consider the "bottom rungs of society" and have to suffer for it just the same. Giving people breathing room - creates potential, it raises the chances of them recovering. I fail to see the net negative as giving people universal healthcare creates a positive domino effect, people will have more time to spend doing what matters to them: hobbies, learning new things, caring for family, hanging out with friends, taking care of themselves and their communities. And I'm sure there'd still be people who'd want to contribute to society regardless.

All true, but it's just the positive side of things. It doesn't take into account how solving relatively superficial problems creates bigger problems. The problem is much deeper than just poverty. ( I say this from a lifetime of poverty). The intuition is, "If we just fix these things, then things can get better." That is almost definitely wrong, and not how the world works, long story short. I know it sounds completely backwards, and it even sounds frustrating. It makes me angry, but that's the bitter truth. It's very hard, very complicated. Not easy. The intuition is that it's easy but it's the system that's broken. "If only I were in charge, then I could make things better." Nope. Harder than that.

The outcome is just not the utopian picture we tend to come up with. It's legions of struggling people sitting at home, alone, depressed, with lots of time, and their groceries and rent paid for, in a superficial world where everyone is too afraid, insecure, and self-absorbed to connect with one another. They're probably on substances or addicted to some bullshit on a screen or headset, which only make things worse. It's still a socioeconomic competition where everyone feels like shit, but now everyone gets 1K a month for the rich to have more consistent access to, and they easily game this system to vacuum it all up and create more economic inequality because now there's a consistent flow for all the psychopath go-getters to map out and and strategize on how to exploit. They love consistency, organization, and predictability, it lets them win more easily.

Is this better than legions of people working minimum wage which actually distracts them from the above existential nightmare? It's not clear to me. Maybe it's better. But maybe it's worse, too. Which is harder to see, because we love a feel good story so much that we'll go to hell in the promise of one.

 

[sserafim]

The thought of having to work for a living for the next 50 years just to survive makes me want to ctb. I don't want to become a slave to capitalism and society or just another cog in the machine

I can't think of any scenario's that would be a life worth living to me. I look at others and can't understand why they think this is so great of an existence.

Me neither. Do you think those people are genuinely happy?

 

[Homo erectus]

All true, but it's just the positive side of things. It doesn't take into account how solving relatively superficial problems creates bigger problems. The problem is much deeper than just poverty. ( I say this from a lifetime of poverty). The intuition is, "If we just fix these things, then things can get better." That is almost definitely wrong, and not how the world works, long story short. I know it sounds completely backwards, and it even sounds frustrating. It makes me angry, but that's the bitter truth. It's very hard, very complicated. Not easy. The intuition is that it's easy but it's the system that's broken. "If only I were in charge, then I could make things better." Nope. Harder than that.

The outcome is just not the utopian picture we tend to come up with. It's legions of struggling people sitting at home, alone, depressed, with lots of time, and their groceries and rent paid for, in a superficial world where everyone is too afraid, insecure, and self-absorbed to connect with one another. They're probably on substances or addicted to some bullshit on a screen or headset, which only make things worse. It's still a socioeconomic competition where everyone feels like shit, but now everyone gets 1K a month for the rich to have more consistent access to, and they easily game this system to vacuum it all up and create more economic inequality because now there's a consistent flow for all the psychopath go-getters to map out and and strategize on how to exploit. They love consistency, organization, and predictability, it lets them win more easily.

Is this better than legions of people working minimum wage which actually distracts them from the above existential nightmare? It's not clear to me. Maybe it's better. But maybe it's worse, too. Which is harder to see, because we love a feel good story so much that we'll go to hell in the promise of one.

I think one purpose of ubi to share the fruit of automation. But how much? This very much depends on different cultures and societies. When people feel safe they will probably release more value back to the economy. When people feel insecure they focus on self-protection, reduce spending, or save up for emergency needs. They may also become depressed and can't work.

Using technology for surveillance and control, letting people suffer and die on their own, is certainly viable from the ruling class's point of view.

 

[Katdogg]

Unfortunately I don't think the government wants people to have more time on their hands. They want you to be forever on that hamster wheel, with just enough to keep you from joining the angry mob and burning everything to the ground.

Why don't they make election day a holiday? Don't they want everyone to participate? Fuck no.

How much trouble would people stir up if they had their basic needs met and time on their hands to discuss issues that truly mattered?

That would be a nightmare for the powers that be.

Don't get me wrong. I would love me some UBI. Take off these shackles, please.

 

[KANCEL]

The thought of having to work for a living for the next 50 years just to survive makes me want to ctb. I don't want to become a slave to capitalism and society or just another cog in the machine

Me neither. Do you think those people are genuinely happy?

Some are, and some are just blissfully ignorant. They all value life so much

 

[Argo]

Well I'm sure it'd help if we gave those people something to do - created a sense of belonging or purpose that feels worthwhile while also removing the source of their struggle/suffering.

Two things here seem really important. One is the purpose/belonging. Not sure it's good enough for it to just feel worthwhile(I'm sure the Nazis felt a lot of belonging and things felt worthwhile). It's not that feeling is unimportant or bad, and that we should be cold emotionless robots, but feeling is not good enough. It has to be worthwhile. It has to be real belonging versus just some bullshit or manipulation. There has to be a move from "more meaningful" and "less meaningful" belonging/purpose. That's what we want to be interested in.

The second thing is "source of their struggle/suffering". That's the thing-- we haven't solved their suffering. Otherwise you wouldn't see celebrities who seem to have it all, well beyond just basic needs met, offing themselves. The whole world is always suffering, because suffering is a deep and fundamental problem and basic needs are a superficial solution.

If that 'solution' gets given with a bad intention, like... from corporations and politicians ready to exploit a new economy of people with regular monthly paychecks(which would probably be the case, because which truly good person is going to put UBI into practice? It's a power move that'll be done for strategic exploitation), it could easily result in a hellworld that's worse than before. Things get worse, over time, if fundamental problems aren't addressed. That's a fact of the world you'll notice if you look over long spans of time. You will see a lot of superficial solutions, and you will think they'll work well, but they end up failing. And a narrative has to get constructed as to why they didn't work-- that narrative is often confused, bringing up new superficial problems and solutions. This is the endless cycle of making things worse and worse(while things get masked to appear better and better).

When people feel insecure they focus on self-protection, reduce spending, or save up for emergency needs. They may also become depressed and can't work.

Using technology for surveillance and control, letting people suffer and die on their own, is certainly viable from the ruling class's point of view.

My money's on "They become depressed and can't work", just because the economic boom is probably going to do what the industrial revolution did for animal agriculture: Create a hellscape of torture chambers no one could imagine. Sure, lots will benefit from all the novelty, the top of the pyramid will be on cloud 9 and some people will seem like "things are getting better", but the cost of it all will be obscured from view and things will be worse overall. "from the ruling class's point of view" is a great perspective to try to take, we don't do that enough I feel

 

[tbroken]

Per molte persone qui immagino che il motivo del ctb sia finanziario
Non voglio costruire una famiglia, non voglio mangiare al ristorante, non voglio una casa grande, voglio solo soddisfare le mie esigenze e poter giocare agli ultimi videogiochi isolato in un piccolo appartamento confortevole. Questo è essenzialmente tutto ciò che voglio. Questa per me è una vita degna di essere vissuta. Ma anche questo è difficile da ottenere considerando il mio punto di partenza
È solo che non voglio fare un lavoro schiacciante per l'anima 39 ore a settimana per i prossimi 40 anni. Non sopporto le persone e non ho bisogno di interazione sociale.

I think the same and I feel really sorry for you. But be honest(if you want to), do you have only social-economic problems or is there something more? Health or body issue? Because if you don't have any healt or body issue we would be exactly the same.

 

[permanently tired]

Financially struggles can be a large part of why some people want to ctb. I grew up well off, but I'm still expected to work which is fine bc even if I work some mediocre job I tolerate I could get by. I know I can rely on my family now, but the environment I grew up was different and I learned to hide from my parents so I pushed them away to make that easier. Those years might be over, but I can't bring myself to tell them anything. I could do anything I want if I wanted except I don't. I just don't want to live anymore. I'm just trudging through life. I have thought abt being able to exchange my life with someone so if I was more miserable I could have already pushed myself to end it. My life is waste, a shame people who want to live can't take my place.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Definitely. I'd feel willing to put up with life for a little longer if we didn't have to make money in order to live it. The moment ill health hits in though- I think I'd want to CTB.

 

[BlockHammer]

Same for me, i want to have enough money so i can be financially independent, buy a game that i want, buy a car that i like and probably buy some anime figurine lol

But the reality im facing in makes that impossible for me to do that and probably in the next 1 or 2 years, im gonna planned my suicide