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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
7,442
You might have heard about a German election in Sachsen-Anhalt. I still read a lot about politics. Like really excessively. But I have the feeling often I don't have something sophisticated so say. On philosophy I feel like my consciousness gives me a better access to my reality and my perception of this world's principles. Even though I clearly have a lot of biases.

I read so many articles whether Trump, AfD, Le Pen etc whether they should be called fascists. Honestly, I read so much with really good arguments on both sides that I have a hard time to come to a conclusion. I read a take fasciziation would fit the phenomenon better. But honestly I for going into details about that I probably had to read the article again and maybe it would be better if I wrote this text in my native language.

I recently read an interview with a German activist Philip Ruch. I am not a big fan of his organization and their projects. They try to engage against the up-rise of the far-right but honestly I think in many instances their project backfire. And I get the feeling they use the most extreme comparisons and terms to gain the most attention for their cause. I disagree though whether that's the right approach. But I am ambivalent. You can talk about a scenario where the AfD takes power and implements concentration camps again. But I also have the feeling some of these authors are self-serving. And they want to make money and gain reputation by writing such literature. In generally I am clearly against the both side approach when it comes to the AfD. But I give an example what disliked from the organization Zentrum für politische Schönheit Philip Ruch's organization. There was an interview from a public broadcasting station with Alice Weidel. A leader of the AfD. And the public broadcast journalists often don't do a good job when interviewing the far-right. The politicians are often very aggressive and the election results give them confidence. But Ruch's organization played extremely loud music mocking the AfD to interrupt the interview. I think the interview even could not continue.
I think a heterogenuos mix of projects against the AfD can be tried. And maybe it should be a symbol against giving these people a platform. But will such a behavior really persuade AfD voters to rethink their convictions.

How is this question connected to the question of the title?. In this interview Ruch he stated the following: When the AfD takes power in Germany.

"Three-quarters of people cave in immediately and run straight into the arms of the AfD."

I discussed this with friends. And I know many leftwing friends told me they consider to leave the country when the AfD takes power. And that it is almost already over. Honestly, I think this attitude is dangerous. I think more reforms of the instititutions, judicial system, implementation of quotas for example for positions in he highest court. All of these could strengthen the pillars of liberal democracy even when the AfD takes over power. I think fatalism is the wrong response. If I could work I would also be tempted to leave the country though. I am not sure what I would do if the AfD took over the country. I could imagine I I would go down a path of inner emigration. And disconnect my emotions from politics. I would be pretty anxious because I rely on the welfare state though. And I would be on the chopping block of the AfD early on. I think protesting against the AfD is very important. And I also took part in political demonstrations. But I am not really an activist. Maybe I would start political arguments with strangers online and vent about the AfD to feel like I could so something against the injustice. I don't think with my limited resources I would be in the position to make a change. I also don't really believe in signing petitions. I don't think becoming cynical would be the right answer.

Honestly, in my position I think the best thing I can do is warning people about becoming hopeless. Fatalism weakenes the alliance against the AfD. Even the "Tausendjährige Reich" only lasted 12 years. The price we paid was very very high though. We live in upsetting times. But I think strengthen the democratic resilience would be a good answer. I have the feeling many people act like the future was predetermined. But my personal opinion is that history proceeds in a contingent way. On the one hand this is soofthing on the other hand it is also scary. Maybe lines we thought humankind would never cross again are on the table again. And honestly the most convincing scenarios sound very pessimistic. And I agree these current political developments are really concerning. But I have to think of Francis Fukuyama's End of history where many experts agreed on to that time. And despite that they were wrong. I think the emergent behavior of humans is even for contingent than insights from STEM subjects. Who would have predicted Covid-19? The Ukraine war? A second Trump term? Admittedly most of that was negative. But for sure it changed world history. Different scenarios have different probabilities. Maybe we have dark times ahead of us. People in the US are already going through it. But I am not all that sure whether the far-right will be successful in the longrun. There will be countermovements. There will be people who engage against such regimes. It is not like when they come in power it is over forever. The actions of the people can make a change if they unite. I am very interested whether the Democrats find a promising candidate for 2028. The current weakness of the Democrats is a big gift to Trump.

I think will endi t here. This was a lot of rambling. Maybe it is better to stay away from politics. Especially if I don't have an own strong opinion on the subject.
 
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PeaceSeeker83

Experienced
Jul 23, 2026
264
I think they would (here in Australia).

Law and order is completely out of control. Too many unacceptable breeders. Too many immigrants who are not integrating. The list goes on and I think a lot of people are quite fed up with the social decay.
 
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peacebenow

**
Apr 26, 2026
626
Here in US, we do have a fascist government taking over the country. People are not caving to it and fighting back to regain democracy.
 
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PimpHand

PimpHand

Member
Dec 24, 2022
56
Most people only want food, shelter and entertainment. Doesn't even need to be good. Most people are used to eat junk food, throw themselves into parties and get drunk, smoke, use drugs and whatever. If a fascist government somehow allows people live a life of shit, they will embrace them.

Most people were taught to fear freedom. Because with freedom there are consequences. No one will bring food to you, you have to go and gather. No one will bring you medicine. No one will give you money. People want an easy solution, even if that comes in the form of authoritarianism.

Do you think the other side - socialism - is any different? Here in Brazil we caught a group of commies chanting "let's play football with the heads of fascists"; collectivism leads to barbarism and suppression of freedom. Only creative minds and critical thinkers are suppressed.
 
pepperfarmer

pepperfarmer

eccentric
Aug 31, 2026
82
Most people only want food, shelter and entertainment. Doesn't even need to be good. Most people are used to eat junk food, throw themselves into parties and get drunk, smoke, use drugs and whatever. If a fascist government somehow allows people live a life of shit, they will embrace them.

Most people were taught to fear freedom. Because with freedom there are consequences. No one will bring food to you, you have to go and gather. No one will bring you medicine. No one will give you money. People want an easy solution, even if that comes in the form of authoritarianism.

Do you think the other side - socialism - is any different? Here in Brazil we caught a group of commies chanting "let's play football with the heads of fascists"; collectivism leads to barbarism and suppression of freedom. Only creative minds and critical thinkers are suppressed.
I can hardly comprehend this fixation with 'freedom' individualists and economic liberals have.

Freedom for whom? You? You don't grow your own vegetables or fruits. You didn't raise and slaughter the chicken or cattle you eat. You didn't build your own house. You most likely don't generate your own electricity, and if you did, you didn't build the solar panels or wind turbines. You don't source your own water. You didn't craft any of your kitchen tools, or any tools that you own, for that matter. You're typing on a computer or phone you didn't build, made out of PCBs and Ion-lithium batteries you also didn't make, running on software you didn't code.

You are not self-sufficient. All you do, if you work at all, is clock into work for 8 hours a day or more doing one thing, in a workplace ruled by a corporate-appointed manager you didn't vote for, and you do this for the explicit permission to live, codified into currency that determines how much you get to live, if at all. At literally every turn in your life, you are entirely, hopelessly dependent on thousands of faceless, soulless corporate entities, which run on the labor of billions of individuals, and whose entire purpose is to funnel unimaginable wealth into a few individuals who do even less than you, and you have precisely 0 say in how any of it is run. You draw breath only with the consent of a few guys whose only motive for giving you that privilege is so that your hard work can earn them another yacht. You have as much freedom as a slave with the privilege of choosing his own master.

How the hell are Socialists and 'collectivists' the authoritarians in this scenario?
 
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Somewhat Suicidal

Somewhat Suicidal

surviving in anhedonia =/= living
Aug 26, 2026
186
As a fellow German I mostly agree with the situation described in the OP. I differ on some of the conclusions drawn.

From my point of view party democracy is dead, the political parties just simply didn't get the memo or ignored it and are continuing to do so. They still have a tiny window of opportunity left to decide whether to succumb power to the people (in the form of an intelligent form of more direct democracy like the model of "BĂĽrgerkonvent"), which would be the better outcome, or the right wing populists, which would be the worse outcome. Sadly they seem to fundamentally not get this.

I used to be left and I'm still left leaning, but I totally disagree with the direction the left has been taking in the past decade or so – maybe even longer. I think it's counterproductive and plays into the cards of the right wing parties like AfD, similarly to how the Democrats behaviour over the past decade in the US placed into Trumps hands really.
In connection with this, this theory is very interesting and plays a bit part in what we are seeing right now:

Freedom for whom? You? You don't grow your own vegetables or fruits. You didn't raise and slaughter the chicken or cattle you eat. You didn't build your own house. You most likely don't generate your own electricity, and if you did, you didn't build the solar panels or wind turbines. You don't source your own water. You didn't craft any of your kitchen tools, or any tools that you own, for that matter. You're typing on a computer or phone you didn't build, made out of PCBs and Ion-lithium batteries you also didn't make, running on software you didn't code.
What you describe here is libertarianism, not liberalism – which doesn't work particularly well because all the welfare benefits we are enjoying today are the result of division of labor.

Socialism on the other hand leads to inefficiency which is another killer of the welfare we enjoy – even a poor person, at least in the social democracies (not the US) has way more stuff than they did 50, 100 or 150 years ago.
While I agree the 21st century turbocapitalism that produces billionaires and burnt out employees is not the answer, socialism isn't either. Soziale market economy is probably the least destructive of a variety of imperfect choices here and produces the least unequal societies as it was realised to the most extend it ever was in the mid 20th century in many Western European countries. That includes many elements that many would call socialist these days as neoliberalism became somehow the standard from the 90s onwards (after the system didn't have to prove to be better than the other one anymore). critical infrastructure is one example of the general public suffering under an increased level of commercialisation and privatisation where it did more harm than good, but needs still strict guidelines to function properly and not become shit due to lack of competition. Total collectivism for all kinds of economy kills any kind of competition and that's exactly the reason the eastern soviet style economies failed miserably in comparison which could be seen especially vividly with the German unification from a macroeconomic perspective.
 
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PimpHand

PimpHand

Member
Dec 24, 2022
56
I can hardly comprehend this fixation with 'freedom' individualists and economic liberals have.

Freedom for whom? You? You don't grow your own vegetables or fruits. You didn't raise and slaughter the chicken or cattle you eat. You didn't build your own house. You most likely don't generate your own electricity, and if you did, you didn't build the solar panels or wind turbines. You don't source your own water. You didn't craft any of your kitchen tools, or any tools that you own, for that matter. You're typing on a computer or phone you didn't build, made out of PCBs and Ion-lithium batteries you also didn't make, running on software you didn't code.

You are not self-sufficient. All you do, if you work at all, is clock into work for 8 hours a day or more doing one thing, in a workplace ruled by a corporate-appointed manager you didn't vote for, and you do this for the explicit permission to live, codified into currency that determines how much you get to live, if at all. At literally every turn in your life, you are entirely, hopelessly dependent on thousands of faceless, soulless corporate entities, which run on the labor of billions of individuals, and whose entire purpose is to funnel unimaginable wealth into a few individuals who do even less than you, and you have precisely 0 say in how any of it is run. You draw breath only with the consent of a few guys whose only motive for giving you that privilege is so that your hard work can earn them another yacht. You have as much freedom as a slave with the privilege of choosing his own master.

How the hell are Socialists and 'collectivists' the authoritarians in this scenario
How to detect a Communist/Marxist-Leninist that calls Stalin God on Reddit:

#1:
I can hardly comprehend this fixation with 'freedom' individualists and economic liberals have.
I didn't say I'm either of those. Try harder.

#2:
Freedom for whom? You?
Yes. Freedom for me and for those I do love. I do not believe in universal empathy. That is a collectivist lie to make you work for people who are not worthy of life. If you want to live, work for it. Do not ask me to cover your healthcare. Because if you can breathe, you have some agency in your life. I'm an existentialist, therefore I do not believe in deterministic bullshit.

#3:

You are not self-sufficient.
"AND YET YOU LIVE IN A SOCIETY" ahh comment. I could counter-argue that your delicious Nestle came to you thanks to child labor, and your Iphone was brought to you by slave-like labor in a socialist country. At least I try to consume ethically and do not eat meat.

Ofc I acknowledge that I have finite agency. That I'm forced to live into this shithole called society alongside people like you. I tried to CTB but collectivists rescued me. Because to society, I can't even choose to not live. I'm forced to work like a slave 24/7 and be a pariah everywhere I go.

But just because I live a shit life doesn't mean I should live a shit life. I could be self-sufficient. People were ss for thousands of years, living of the land and the fruits. People had freedom back then, why can't they have that kind of freedom now? Why can't I just go and live on the wild? I live in a bullshit country where vegetation is being destroyed, and yet the government forbids everyone from using guns.

At literally every turn in your life, you are entirely, hopelessly dependent on thousands of faceless, soulless corporate entities, which run on the labor of billions of individuals, and whose entire purpose is to funnel unimaginable wealth into a few individuals who do even less than you, and you have precisely 0 say in how any of it is run. You draw breath only with the consent of a few guys whose only motive for giving you that privilege is so that your hard work can earn them another yacht. You have as much freedom as a slave with the privilege of choosing his own master.
Blah blah blah... replace "billionaires" with "Party Members" and you have the perfect description of real socialism in the USSR and China. Except at least in my country we have decent laws that abolish death penalty, give LGBTQ people rights and don't censor rights, unlike the former countries. I would literally rather CTB and do anything than live under communism. I would join some militia and fight communism with my life.

You think you are smart by demoralizing me and calling me a "slave" when in fact, you are just a stupid teenager that educated yourself using tiktok. You know nothing, boy. As someone said "A teenager that is not communist has no soul. An adult that is still a communist has no brain."