ICE has to be stopped

[The Blackangel]

I'm sure everyone knows about Renee Nicole Good being murdered by an ICE agent a few days ago. ICE is no longer a valid government agency. They are the Gestapo. Running wild, doing whatever they want, with unchecked power. They are disappearing people, murdering people, and invading homes for no reason, among many other atrocities. The dictator in the White House (whom I call Adolf) is letting it happen. He's hoping they take out as many Democrats as humanly possible. He wants all of us on the left dead. He has said as much. And his Gestapo is his key to getting it done. But you have to also know how his bigotry is influencing them. If you have a dark complexion, he is going to call you a Mexican drug dealer or some other bullshit, even if you're white and found as you were walking out of a tanning salon. If you're transgender (like me) you have literally no value, and shooting at you would be deemed target practice. We have lost ALL of the rights we fought decades for. We're not even legally people anymore. In his first regime, Adolf signed a document declaring all of us an "unperson". So legally I'm not a person. Someone could walk up and put a bullet through my skull and only have to face a weapons charge. It's not murder unless you kill a person. And since we're no longer people, it cannot be murder.

And the Gestapo is doing just that. This isn't the first murder committed by them, and it sure as hell won't be the last. There is a revolt coming. The people are going to take up arms and fight back. We're heading into another civil war. And there's no telling how bloody this one is going to be. I have a small arsenal, and I'm not scared to fight if I have to. I'm probably useless since I'm in a goddamn wheelchair. But that doesn't mean I don't know how to use a gun. I'm a dead eye. I don't know anyone else who has lit a match from 60' away with an antique .22 rifle. So within that kind of range I only have one decision. Do I shoot them in the left eye or the right one.

Tell those you care about how much you love them. Because it may be the last thing you ever say to them.

 

[Dejected 55]

Like a lot of things, unfortunately, the things happening in the USA right now with ICE are a feature, not a bug. They are doing what they are asked to do. Either because the policies are horrible and oppressive and corrupt OR because they are giving anyone who signs up a signing bonus and handing them a gun and uniform and pointing them at the public knowing full well bad shit is going to happen... no matter how you slice it, it is purposeful even if it is purposeful negligence.

There is some irony too in a federal agency going gestapo style wearing masks when many are likely people who freaked out over wearing masks during the COVID run... and would think it suspicious if they saw people on the streets hiding their faces.

There's so much wrong here that it almost becomes tiresome to list it all. The scarier thing, to me, is less the ICE agents shooting and killing people... and more just how many people in the administration AND average US citizens who seem to be perfectly cool with all this happening. It's crazy the justification spin I've been seeing.

 

[heywey]

I'll be honest, I'm a pretty passionate moderate. I get a lot of shit from both 'sides', such as they are, and I'm quick to defend everyone. I (still) don't think anyone is evil because of how they voted or whatever. I think none of the options people are presented with are particularly good, and that's no one's fault but the people in power. I've long held that compassion and understanding are what we need above all.

But this is not okay. Lines are being crossed. Ineptitude, incompetence and selfishness from everyone has fed this long downward spiral, but there's a difference between indirectly harmful policy and fucking indiscriminate (or, well, very discriminate) state sponsored violence.

I've only ever voted third party -- but, thanks Trump, you finally inspired some defensive voting. Thanks for reinforcing my doomer belief that we'll only ever get less bad options, not good ones. Thanks for making a fire big enough that I can't help but support those fighting it with more fire.

My only hope is we'll get some shit so egregious that the country will find some sense of unity and direction after all this. But my hopes aren't high. Rome didn't fall in a day and I fear this is only the start of a slow and deceptively subtle decline.

That's all I have to say on that.

 

[Unsure and Useless]

I'm sure everyone knows about Renee Nicole Good being murdered by an ICE agent a few days ago. ICE is no longer a valid government agency. They are the Gestapo. Running wild, doing whatever they want, with unchecked power. They are disappearing people, murdering people, and invading homes for no reason, among many other atrocities. The dictator in the White House (whom I call Adolf) is letting it happen. He's hoping they take out as many Democrats as humanly possible. He wants all of us on the left dead. He has said as much. And his Gestapo is his key to getting it done.

The fact that Renee is the only one getting attention is concerning. What happened to her is a tragedy, but I feel like her death was supposed to be covered more, if that makes sense. I think this is the news' way of giving the false impression that ICE's violence only comes out as exceptions rather than the standard

I've seen so many people get hurt and irreversibly maimed by ICE, some even children. These people aren't humans; they're monsters parading around in gear and guns. Some of them (allegedly) even have full on SS tattoos on their person—not to mention the way government accounts on social media are constantly making allusions to Nazism, such as "America for Americans"

If you have a dark complexion, he is going to call you a Mexican drug dealer or some other bullshit, even if you're white and found as you were walking out of a tanning salon. If you're transgender (like me) you have literally no value, and shooting at you would be deemed target practice. We have lost ALL of the rights we fought decades for.

This. So many people are too busy engaging in in-fighting that we're forgetting that, under the eye of fascists, we're all scum that need to be eradicated. We can bicker amongst ourselves later once those tyrants are out of our government

The people are going to take up arms and fight back. We're heading into another civil war. And there's no telling how bloody this one is going to be. I have a small arsenal, and I'm not scared to fight if I have to. I'm probably useless since I'm in a goddamn wheelchair. But that doesn't mean I don't know how to use a gun. I'm a dead eye. I don't know anyone else who has lit a match from 60' away with an antique .22 rifle.

While fighting is (obviously) useful, it's not the only important thing in a revolution. With how oppressive our government is becoming, it may also be possible that you, and others who may not be able to fight due to their own personal circumstances, can fulfill more "supporting" roles. The future is uncertain though. It's hard to tell if we're heading towards an explosive war or a quiet annihilation

 

[Winterreise]

There is only one way to do that

 

[InevitableDeath]

I'm sure everyone knows about Renee Nicole Good being murdered by an ICE agent a few days ago. ICE is no longer a valid government agency. They are the Gestapo. Running wild, doing whatever they want, with unchecked power. They are disappearing people, murdering people, and invading homes for no reason, among many other atrocities. The dictator in the White House (whom I call Adolf) is letting it happen. He's hoping they take out as many Democrats as humanly possible. He wants all of us on the left dead. He has said as much. And his Gestapo is his key to getting it done. But you have to also know how his bigotry is influencing them. If you have a dark complexion, he is going to call you a Mexican drug dealer or some other bullshit, even if you're white and found as you were walking out of a tanning salon. If you're transgender (like me) you have literally no value, and shooting at you would be deemed target practice. We have lost ALL of the rights we fought decades for. We're not even legally people anymore. In his first regime, Adolf signed a document declaring all of us an "unperson". So legally I'm not a person. Someone could walk up and put a bullet through my skull and only have to face a weapons charge. It's not murder unless you kill a person. And since we're no longer people, it cannot be murder.

And the Gestapo is doing just that. This isn't the first murder committed by them, and it sure as hell won't be the last. There is a revolt coming. The people are going to take up arms and fight back. We're heading into another civil war. And there's no telling how bloody this one is going to be. I have a small arsenal, and I'm not scared to fight if I have to. I'm probably useless since I'm in a goddamn wheelchair. But that doesn't mean I don't know how to use a gun. I'm a dead eye. I don't know anyone else who has lit a match from 60' away with an antique .22 rifle. So within that kind of range I only have one decision. Do I shoot them in the left eye or the right one.

Tell those you care about how much you love them. Because it may be the last thing you ever say to them.

This is my favourite post on this site. Thank you. Also for the RDR2 dog.

 

[fishygirl]

I'd like to add a different perspective.

1. the fact that there are protests, people actively disagreeing with the government, and the fact that you can post this now and know that you will not be prosecuted for what you say online- goes to prove the freedom we have in the united states. as much as trump does, its not possible for him to be a dictator nor for america to fall into a dictatorship. thus, it's also not possible for ICE to be even anything close to the gestapo, as they operate within constitutional law.. for example, they cannot go into your home unless they have an active warrant... putting aside the bad apples, and especially new and under trained recruits, ICE operates lawfully.

2. so far it seems that most people protesting ICE are not illegal immigrants themselves.. my mother and i came into this country when i was an infant and overstayed our visas after they expired. we lived in the united states, freely and without worry, for years. i did not even know i was an illegal until 6th grade when my mom pulled me out of class to get out green cards. my mom and i have recieved goverment support and i went to school normally, even as an illegal.

as of now, my green card is expired, but i am applying for citizenship so i have an extension of 24 months and i carry the appropriate documents to prove it. RIGHT NOW, I COULD BE STOPPED AND DETAINED BY ICE. yet, im not scared. why? i have no criminal record. i have proof of residency on me at all times.

i said all this because those that have been deported live here for years, recieve benefits from the government, get under the table jobs, and never apply for a green card or citizenship. every country has borders and laws for a reason! and there cannot even be the excuse of not being able to afford the fees, because they have waivers! i did not pay anything!

and if ICE is barging through an immigrants door, its because they have a warrant for an arrest- because that person has commited a crime.

3. last but not least, i live in a state and a city that let in a lot of immigrants, a lot of them with ties to tren de aragua and MS13.. gangs that do human and drug trafficking, and worse. there are also illegal vendors who clog the streets and harrass people to buy their illegal goods, and more.. i am living in the same neighborhood i grew up in and i dont feel safe anymore. i was previously working in a homeless shelter where we had many clients without papers (i know, because part of my job was to scrub client data.) and i quit that job due to how unsafe it was. i have genuinely been harassed and stalked on the street by these people. so it is truly frustrating for us that suffer and see our communities fall into foreign criminals, to see so much hate for ICE when we want the streets to be safe again.

 

[InevitableDeath]

I'd like to add a different perspective.

1. the fact that there are protests, people actively disagreeing with the government, and the fact that you can post this now and know that you will not be prosecuted for what you say online- goes to prove the freedom we have in the united states. as much as trump does, its not possible for him to be a dictator nor for america to fall into a dictatorship. thus, it's also not possible for ICE to be even anything close to the gestapo, as they operate within constitutional law.. for example, they cannot go into your home unless they have an active warrant... putting aside the bad apples, and especially new and under trained recruits, ICE operates lawfully.

2. so far it seems that most people protesting ICE are not illegal immigrants themselves.. my mother and i came into this country when i was an infant and overstayed our visas after they expired. we lived in the united states, freely and without worry, for years. i did not even know i was an illegal until 6th grade when my mom pulled me out of class to get out green cards. my mom and i have recieved goverment support and i went to school normally, even as an illegal.

as of now, my green card is expired, but i am applying for citizenship so i have an extension of 24 months and i carry the appropriate documents to prove it. RIGHT NOW, I COULD BE STOPPED AND DETAINED BY ICE. yet, im not scared. why? i have no criminal record. i have proof of residency on me at all times.

i said all this because those that have been deported live here for years, recieve benefits from the government, get under the table jobs, and never apply for a green card or citizenship. every country has borders and laws for a reason! and there cannot even be the excuse of not being able to afford the fees, because they have waivers! i did not pay anything!

and if ICE is barging through an immigrants door, its because they have a warrant for an arrest- because that person has commited a crime.

3. last but not least, i live in a state and a city that let in a lot of immigrants, a lot of them with ties to tren de aragua and MS13.. gangs that do human and drug trafficking, and worse. there are also illegal vendors who clog the streets and harrass people to buy their illegal goods, and more.. i am living in the same neighborhood i grew up in and i dont feel safe anymore. i was previously working in a homeless shelter where we had many clients without papers (i know, because part of my job was to scrub client data.) and i quit that job due to how unsafe it was. i have genuinely been harassed and stalked on the street by these people. so it is truly frustrating for us that suffer and see our communities fall into foreign criminals, to see so much hate for ICE when we want the streets to be safe again.

First they came for the Communists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews

And I did not speak out

Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me

And there was no one left

To speak out for me

 

[Dejected 55]

I'd like to add a different perspective.

1. the fact that there are protests, people actively disagreeing with the government, and the fact that you can post this now and know that you will not be prosecuted for what you say online- goes to prove the freedom we have in the united states. as much as trump does, its not possible for him to be a dictator nor for america to fall into a dictatorship. thus, it's also not possible for ICE to be even anything close to the gestapo, as they operate within constitutional law.. for example, they cannot go into your home unless they have an active warrant... putting aside the bad apples, and especially new and under trained recruits, ICE operates lawfully.

2. so far it seems that most people protesting ICE are not illegal immigrants themselves.. my mother and i came into this country when i was an infant and overstayed our visas after they expired. we lived in the united states, freely and without worry, for years. i did not even know i was an illegal until 6th grade when my mom pulled me out of class to get out green cards. my mom and i have recieved goverment support and i went to school normally, even as an illegal.

as of now, my green card is expired, but i am applying for citizenship so i have an extension of 24 months and i carry the appropriate documents to prove it. RIGHT NOW, I COULD BE STOPPED AND DETAINED BY ICE. yet, im not scared. why? i have no criminal record. i have proof of residency on me at all times.

i said all this because those that have been deported live here for years, recieve benefits from the government, get under the table jobs, and never apply for a green card or citizenship. every country has borders and laws for a reason! and there cannot even be the excuse of not being able to afford the fees, because they have waivers! i did not pay anything!

and if ICE is barging through an immigrants door, its because they have a warrant for an arrest- because that person has commited a crime.

3. last but not least, i live in a state and a city that let in a lot of immigrants, a lot of them with ties to tren de aragua and MS13.. gangs that do human and drug trafficking, and worse. there are also illegal vendors who clog the streets and harrass people to buy their illegal goods, and more.. i am living in the same neighborhood i grew up in and i dont feel safe anymore. i was previously working in a homeless shelter where we had many clients without papers (i know, because part of my job was to scrub client data.) and i quit that job due to how unsafe it was. i have genuinely been harassed and stalked on the street by these people. so it is truly frustrating for us that suffer and see our communities fall into foreign criminals, to see so much hate for ICE when we want the streets to be safe again.

#1. The fact that people are being attacked, injured, arrested, and killed at these protests actually prove we are not as free in the USA as we like to think we are. Our President right now is labeling anyone ICE attacks/kills as a terrorist and leaving it at that... while at the same time threatening the government of Iran for killing protestors in their country. Think about that for a minute. When people protest in the USA, they are labeled enemies of the state and told they deserved to die for protesting... how free does that seem to you? Whether Trump becomes a true dictator or not is yet to be seen, and you may be right that he will not... but he can. Nothing about our setup in the USA prevents this from happening if the people allow it to happen. Enough people cheer it on or defend/excuse it, and it can happen. Absolutely. ICE is really not operating lawfully in a lot of obvious cases... and worse, the current administration doesn't want to investigate them to make sure they are.

#2. Our government right now is talking about essentially requiring American citizens, even ones who are citizens by birth, to carry proof of that citizenship... because if they stop you for looking "foreign" or you are with someone who "looks foreign" then you're guilty by association and better be able to prove yourself. Multiple instances of US citizens being detained, a handful I think even deported... and people with legitimate citizenship (not birthright, but legal/earned otherwise) have been detained and deported too. They are also pausing/stopping applications for citizenship too... so there's no realistic reason for you to think you are safe even if you are otherwise law abiding. Are there some gaming the system? Sure. But you know what... many of the people here illegally are here to be exploited by companies or people who want nannies, maids, or whatever to pay under the table at slave labor wages... exploitation of illegal immigrants is its own industry here in the USA... so if anyone is really gaming the system, it is US citizens who are knowingly exploiting illegal immigrants.

Oh, and having a warrant doesn't mean they got it legitimately or that the person they have a warrant for is actually guilty (you know we are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty after all) nor does it mean they always serve those warrants at the correct address or on the correct people. Lots of ways to screw up having a warrant.

#3. ICE isn't making the streets safe right now. They are making it a different kind of dangerous. Are there dangerous immigrants here? Sure. There are dangerous natural born citizens too... and when a government is quick to label any dissent as terrorism... even when peaceful... and ICE agents can shoot a person in the face in daylight with witnesses and cameras rolling and not bat an eye and a good chunk of the country supports it? The shitstorm of horrible is just getting started.

Oh, and don't think you're safe posting on this forum about this... I don't have any illusions that I am either. I was born and lived my entire life in the US and am as white as they come... but I have no illusions that the government couldn't take a dislike to me one day and snap me up and disappear me without a second thought... and you can bet if they wanted to snap you up they would you too... even if you're supporting their actions right now. There are people who voted for this administration who have been swept up in raids already and seemed surprised.

 

[The Blackangel]

If we're free, then I need a few things explained to me.

1) Why have concentration camps been built across the country? The most famous one is Alligator Alcatraz.

2) If ICE is law abiding, then why have they killed and disappeared so many people?

3) Adolf Hitler was elected by the people. He was a dictator. Adolf 2.0 here in the states was elected by delusional people. He however PROMISED to be a dictator on day one. So explain how he is in fact NOT a dictator.

4) He talks about having ended wars, when in fact he has not ended anything. He has in fact started conflict by sending in our military to abduct the president of Venezuela and overthrow the country. He is also planning to attack and try to seize Greenland. He refers to Canada as "the 51st state". He has also brought up the idea of seizing Iceland. He wants world domination. he doesn't care about the law or basic human rights. Neither does the Gestapo.

5) Why have our allies abandoned us, the same as they did in his first regime? The entire EU is willing to take us on simply because of him.

6) You talk as if you know all of these things from every angle. Tell me how many death threats you get due to being transgender. Tell me why you moved to a completely different county to try to get away from it, only to find notes in your mailbox saying things like "Fags aren't welcome here."

7) Tell me why you are so delusional to even think for a moment that anything in this regime is law abiding or constitutional.

 

[InevitableDeath]

If we're free, then I need a few things explained to me.

1) Why have concentration camps been built across the country? The most famous one is Alligator Alcatraz.

2) If ICE is law abiding, then why have they killed and disappeared so many people?

3) Adolf Hitler was elected by the people. He was a dictator. Adolf 2.0 here in the states was elected by delusional people. He however PROMISED to be a dictator on day one. So explain how he is in fact NOT a dictator.

4) He talks about having ended wars, when in fact he has not ended anything. He has in fact started conflict by sending in our military to abduct the president of Venezuela and overthrow the country. He is also planning to attack and try to seize Greenland. He refers to Canada as "the 51st state". He has also brought up the idea of seizing Iceland. He wants world domination. he doesn't care about the law or basic human rights. Neither does the Gestapo.

5) Why have our allies abandoned us, the same as they did in his first regime? The entire EU is willing to take us on simply because of him.

6) You talk as if you know all of these things from every angle. Tell me how many death threats you get due to being transgender. Tell me why you moved to a completely different county to try to get away from it, only to find notes in your mailbox saying things like "Fags aren't welcome here."

7) Tell me why you are so delusional to even think for a moment that anything in this regime is law abiding or constitutional.

exactly. Solid post. The only thing I would add is that its a duopoly and thats the game. The two parties are both in thrall to billionaires and hypercapitalism, and democracy is an illusion. Identity politics psychopath fascist-lite vs maga pasychopath fascist-heavy. Both extremest capitalists. Nobody's voting their way out of this, and the direction of travel is horrible.

 

[BradGuy123]

As a moderate I think ICE has gone way over the line. The agent killed a citizen when that citizen was posing no threat to the agent. There have been a few cases where ICE has detained citizens and refused to allow them to provide proof of citizenship until they were taken into custody. They have treated undocumented people inhumanely: making them sleep on concrete floors, abusing them, and making their loved ones worry by not letting them call them for days. I'm not going to weigh in on what should be done with undocumented people. I can see both sides. But treat them like human beings. Trump (who I can't stand) and his fellow conservatives want to take a hard line approach to them. Yet the agency who enforces immigration laws engages in actions like this. This is not winning people to their side. This is turning people against their side. I am fairly new here. Based on this thread, I assume political discussions are allowed.

 

[InevitableDeath]

undocumented? Whose documents?

We're a nation of immigrants FFS! What do you think happened to the natives?

I will try to be chill, but honestly, read the poem I posted above. What do you think that means?

 

[nights5467]

I'd like to add a different perspective.

1. the fact that there are protests, people actively disagreeing with the government, and the fact that you can post this now and know that you will not be prosecuted for what you say online- goes to prove the freedom we have in the united states. as much as trump does, its not possible for him to be a dictator nor for america to fall into a dictatorship. thus, it's also not possible for ICE to be even anything close to the gestapo, as they operate within constitutional law.. for example, they cannot go into your home unless they have an active warrant... putting aside the bad apples, and especially new and under trained recruits, ICE operates lawfully.

2. so far it seems that most people protesting ICE are not illegal immigrants themselves.. my mother and i came into this country when i was an infant and overstayed our visas after they expired. we lived in the united states, freely and without worry, for years. i did not even know i was an illegal until 6th grade when my mom pulled me out of class to get out green cards. my mom and i have recieved goverment support and i went to school normally, even as an illegal.

as of now, my green card is expired, but i am applying for citizenship so i have an extension of 24 months and i carry the appropriate documents to prove it. RIGHT NOW, I COULD BE STOPPED AND DETAINED BY ICE. yet, im not scared. why? i have no criminal record. i have proof of residency on me at all times.

i said all this because those that have been deported live here for years, recieve benefits from the government, get under the table jobs, and never apply for a green card or citizenship. every country has borders and laws for a reason! and there cannot even be the excuse of not being able to afford the fees, because they have waivers! i did not pay anything!

and if ICE is barging through an immigrants door, its because they have a warrant for an arrest- because that person has commited a crime.

3. last but not least, i live in a state and a city that let in a lot of immigrants, a lot of them with ties to tren de aragua and MS13.. gangs that do human and drug trafficking, and worse. there are also illegal vendors who clog the streets and harrass people to buy their illegal goods, and more.. i am living in the same neighborhood i grew up in and i dont feel safe anymore. i was previously working in a homeless shelter where we had many clients without papers (i know, because part of my job was to scrub client data.) and i quit that job due to how unsafe it was. i have genuinely been harassed and stalked on the street by these people. so it is truly frustrating for us that suffer and see our communities fall into foreign criminals, to see so much hate for ICE when we want the streets to be safe again.

You are depressingly misinformed. You are looking at ICE through the old paradigm. The ICE operations in Trump2 are something completely different altogether from the previous norms of immigration enforcement. They do not operate within the boundaries of the law until a judge chastises them 14 different times and threatens them with contempt. They make active efforts to find legal loopholes and push constitutional law to the side.

For example, they deported Kilmar Abrego Garcia without ever allowing him a chance to see a judge and receive a trial. Instead of apologizing to the public and admitting it was an administrative error, the Trump administration went into full defense mode and continuously tried to defend their actions. They even had people go on Fox News at one point and straight up say that they didn't care about what the judge said about the government not being authorized to deport him! They tried to paint him as an evil gang member and went so far as to photoshop images of tattoos on his hand during press conferences. They spent months on a truly depraved and deplorable media campaign before quietly bringing him back to the US after everyone forgot about it where the judge ultimately decided he was NOT deportable and was here legally. The federal government, clearly unable to admit any wrongdoing, then proceeded to try and charge him with a bunch of bogus charges that he never did after he won his initial deportation case!

Let me add additional perspective for you. ICE funding was increased last year to an annual budget of $39 billion. That number is on par with entire countries' MILITARIES. Canada's military is $42 billion annually and Israel's is $32 billion annually. ICE funding is now greater than the ATF, FBI, DEA, and a list of other federal police agencies COMBINED!

I want you to think about this funding and come up with some reasonable explanation for how they could possibly need $39 billion a year that will continue for multiple years to run a deportation operation of illegal immigrants. What is this $39 billion per year police agency with militaristic amounts of money going to do in 2027, 2028, 2029, 2030 when they've managed to get all the illegals out? You'd be wise to note that the funding bill never mentioned anything about downsizing ICE after they accomplish the goal of deporting the illegal immigrants.

You are in danger and you think that the wolves surrounding you are your friends. They are not. I truly hope that you will be able to see what is going on for what it is in time to prepare yourself for whatever you have to do to survive the times that we are going to have to live through. They will not spare you and they do not like you. Make no mistake, these are white Christian nationalists running our government. They are the Christian equivalent of the Taliban.

 

[Hvergelmir]

They are the Christian equivalent of the Taliban.

I've looked into Taliban society quite a bit, trying to cut through the propaganda. Their system is theocratic and very different to the U.S.
What similarities do you see? While he's riding the wave of Christian identity, I don't perceive Trump as very Christian, and definitely not theocratic.

 

[The Blackangel]

Their system is theocratic and very different to the U.S.

They're not theocratic as a means of rule. Being in the middle east, Islam is more or less the only legal religion. But that's not their ultimate goal. They're power hungry, and will use any excuse to target political rivals to obtain that power. Which is the same thing that is happening here, with the exception of this regime latching onto any particular religion. Some of them claim to be xtian, but they don't know the first thing about xtianity or any god. I was raised Roman Catholic, but never bought into it. Not to mention the fact that I was excommunicated when I was 3. That's not a typo. I was a toddler. So that helped sour me on xtianity.

So ruling with an iron fist is the main thing with the insertion of religion to appeal to the masses. And since this is a xtian country that was founded on the babble, claiming xtianity just boosts the power.

 

[Hvergelmir]

They're not theocratic as a means of rule.

Disputes are resolved by reasoning with the local equivalent of a priest. They use old religious writings as official law.
Their legal system seem very much theocratic. They're using Islam as a foundation to separate right from wrong, and religious belief is an integral part of their reasoning and decision making.

With Christianity in the U.S. it appears to be more about group identity and culture, than actual religion. (Though I've also seen the occasional U.S. politician rivaling the Talibans, in that sense.)

 

[likeblueberries]

I'd like to add a different perspective.

1. the fact that there are protests, people actively disagreeing with the government, and the fact that you can post this now and know that you will not be prosecuted for what you say online- goes to prove the freedom we have in the united states. as much as trump does, its not possible for him to be a dictator nor for america to fall into a dictatorship. thus, it's also not possible for ICE to be even anything close to the gestapo, as they operate within constitutional law.. for example, they cannot go into your home unless they have an active warrant... putting aside the bad apples, and especially new and under trained recruits, ICE operates lawfully.

2. so far it seems that most people protesting ICE are not illegal immigrants themselves.. my mother and i came into this country when i was an infant and overstayed our visas after they expired. we lived in the united states, freely and without worry, for years. i did not even know i was an illegal until 6th grade when my mom pulled me out of class to get out green cards. my mom and i have recieved goverment support and i went to school normally, even as an illegal.

as of now, my green card is expired, but i am applying for citizenship so i have an extension of 24 months and i carry the appropriate documents to prove it. RIGHT NOW, I COULD BE STOPPED AND DETAINED BY ICE. yet, im not scared. why? i have no criminal record. i have proof of residency on me at all times.

i said all this because those that have been deported live here for years, recieve benefits from the government, get under the table jobs, and never apply for a green card or citizenship. every country has borders and laws for a reason! and there cannot even be the excuse of not being able to afford the fees, because they have waivers! i did not pay anything!

and if ICE is barging through an immigrants door, its because they have a warrant for an arrest- because that person has commited a crime.

3. last but not least, i live in a state and a city that let in a lot of immigrants, a lot of them with ties to tren de aragua and MS13.. gangs that do human and drug trafficking, and worse. there are also illegal vendors who clog the streets and harrass people to buy their illegal goods, and more.. i am living in the same neighborhood i grew up in and i dont feel safe anymore. i was previously working in a homeless shelter where we had many clients without papers (i know, because part of my job was to scrub client data.) and i quit that job due to how unsafe it was. i have genuinely been harassed and stalked on the street by these people. so it is truly frustrating for us that suffer and see our communities fall into foreign criminals, to see so much hate for ICE when we want the streets to be safe again.

Saying that it is impossible for America to fall into a dictatorship just because it isn't one right now is very mistaken. If that happened, it wouldn't even be the first time a previously democratic country falls into authoritarianism. I'm not American but I know that one of the biggest criticisms of ICE is that their agents just seem so poorly trained and insanely violent when compared to the police. Clearly it's not a case of 'bad apples' when there are so many bad apples who are also being vehemently defended by officials and politicians.

That being said, for reasons related to the US' dominance over the region and also internal factors, every country below the Southern border breeds tens of thousands of criminals (except for those in the Southern Cone). If Americans don't want their country to become a Colombia or Ecuador where you're constantly looking over your shoulder to make sure you're not about to get mugged, then the official policy should be to only let educated professionals from the area into the US.