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mehdone

Mortician
Oct 10, 2023
294
I'm not sure what a NEET is, and I can't be bothered to look it up- but I'm going to assume it is someone who doesn't have to work. Work kills me. It drains me, it sucks away at my soul. It leaves nothing left for life. So yes, life would be easier if I was financially stable without ever having to work.

…how the hell did trad wife and motherhood become a part of this thread? That's so left field and completely unrelated, I mean like, wtf?!?
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
2,005
You come off as quite narrow minded and judgmental. In Trad Homes couples both work towards the betterment of their families. The husband is as much of a slave as the wife. He goes out and toils all day for some employer who can fire him anytime they want. He then comes home to a list of chores he needs to do ("Honey Do" list), be it digging a drainage ditch, mowing a lawn, changing the spark plugs and oil & filter in the car, stopping a leaking faucet, tile a bathroom or wallpapering a child's bedroom, all for no pay to save money they'd need to pay someone else to do it (just as the wife does with her responsibilities). Who handles bookkeeping and finances is up to them to decide (probably the one with most skill for it). Nowadays a single woman is a slave to her boss who tells her what to do and not to do, and has to fulfill the husband's role too (or pay someone else to). Plus she has to be her own (and her children's) live in protector, companion and lover. Many women, after a string of failed relationships end up emotionally damaged, lonely, drinking boxed wine with multiple cats…. Sad.

Spousal abuse occurs in non Trad marriages and especially in unmarried couples. Incest between stepfather and stepdaughter is more likely than father and daughter and between boyfriend and daughter is more likely still. Divorce was rare and scandalous in the 1950s. People did not enter marriage impulsivity because it was for a lifetime, so they made sure they were compatible. (Since I only read the OP and am not a stalker I have no idea of @sserafim romantic inclinations or desires.)

Please refrain from being so judgmental, mean spirited and intolerant of alternative lifestyles. Celebrate Diversity! Being a Trad Wife might not appeal to you, but other women have the right to try it if they do choose.
Funny how you people like to talk about being narrow-minded while telling women bullshit like
You will never know how much you will love being a mother until you become one yourself!
As though somehow all women find that motherhood brings them joy. Your entire post was just one narrow-minded rant romanticizing the 1950s tradwive lifestyle to someone who has already made it clear in the past that most of the things associated with it (motherhood, romance, intimacy) don't appeal to her. It's fucking creepy.

Not just that, but the 1950s tradwife bs is fucking risky. If you are being abused or cheated on then it's harder to leave that relationships and if your husband divorces you, gets injured and is unable to work, gets layoff, or dies then you have lost your income. At least if you are a slave to your boss you get paid for it. If you are a slave for your husband then you get barely anything outside of the risk of being homeless if something happens to him. A lot of women end up damaged because they decide to become tradwives only for it to blow up in their faces.

Spousal abuse may occur in non-trad marriages but who do you think is going to have an easier time escaping that relationship and getting back on their feet? The woman who has a job and money to fall back on or the woman who has no job and no income because she relied on someone else for however many years? Divorce was rare in the 1950s because it was hard to get and there was more stigma surrounding divorce back then.

Along with that, the claims you are making about stepfathers and CSA rely on reported cases, which causes a problem since women and girls a part of tradional households might be less likely to report these issues as a result of both it risking them losing their only income (since they are completely reliant one the husbands) and since a lot of those households hold strong patriarchial views. It is already known that those who come from more patriarchial, traditional, and religious upbribgings tend to cover up abuse more, hence why SA and abuse are so common in certain communities, such as christian fundamentalist communites. Also, not all non-trad households even have a step-father, which only worsens your point.

Along with that, there have been cases of step-fathers being a part of households that have a very similar structure to the 1950s traditional household structure you fetishize so much. So this argument doesnt hold much weight.


There is no "diversity" to be celebrated, especially when talking about something that has racist misogynistic right-wing movement behind it. Why even bother suggesting it anyway?


I'm just going to leave you with this. Remember this before next you go out of your way to romanticize what was a pretty shitty time to be a woman.
It is hard to believe that women only 60 years ago were still viewed and inferior to males and had little to no rights to protect themselves. When men returned from World War II some men resulted to domestically violate as a way of punishing his wife for something she did and to affirm dominance that he previously lost. Assaults that were inflicted on to women during the 1950s were seen being a part of male aggression and something that is normal. Women who did report the crime were viewed as being the actually perpetrators and the assault was actually their fault because they were unable to defend themselves. Domestic abuse during the 1950s was not considered as a crime but as a family matter, and law enforcement would not get involved. Since women were unable to defend themselves from abuse and assaults during the 1950s, the excuse that it was the woman's fault was an excuse that was popularly used.
Dorr (2008) explained that during a study that when women who were sexually assaulted that "neither [the boy] or the [investigators] termed [the assault as] rape" (Dorr, 2008, p. 35). Even though now it would be considered as rape back then laws and law enforcement did not see it as the man victimizing the woman. Only extreme cases went to courts and all others were seen as the norm. Similarly domestic abuse was considered as a private matter so police or courts did not get involved (Nursingworld.com, 2008 para. 20).
 
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sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,707
I'm not sure what a NEET is, and I can't be bothered to look it up- but I'm going to assume it is someone who doesn't have to work. Work kills me. It drains me, it sucks away at my soul. It leaves nothing left for life. So yes, life would be easier if I was financially stable without ever having to work.

…how the hell did trad wife and motherhood become a part of this thread? That's so left field and completely unrelated, I mean like, wtf?!?
NEET is "Not in Education, Employment, or Training". I'm sorry to hear that. Work honestly sounds like torture. The fact that my parents want me to eventually work for a living and support myself is the main reason why I want to ctb. I don't want to have to work. Work is modern day slavery. I don't see a point in becoming a slave to the system apart from survival purposes
I've been trying to make peace with and accept that wanting to CTB "just because" I don't want to work isn't dumb and even if it is I'll just go nihilism mode and go "so what if it's dumb according to other humans' standards? This is my life I want to do whatever and I'll get it" Fuck this world

Seriously, what's so fucking wrong with being NEET? Parents are the one who OWE their kids for forcing them into this world, not the other way around
Literally. I don't understand why my parents are so against me being a NEET. They think that I'm wasting my life but I never even wanted to exist anyways. I was brought into this world without a choice. Why should I have to be productive or earn a living? It's just so unfair since I never chose to be alive, yet this is imposed onto me because I am
 
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mehdone

Mortician
Oct 10, 2023
294
NEET is "Not in Education, Employment, or Training". I'm sorry to hear that. Work honestly sounds like torture. The fact that my parents want me to eventually support myself is the main reason why I want to ctb. I don't want to have to work. Work is modern day slavery
Thank you for the explanation.

Yeah, work is… well, when it takes everything you have just to get out of bed in the morning, and then you have to toil away at some bullshit for 8+ hours, just to come home drained and exhausted, miserable, go to sleep, rinse and repeat? Yeah, no, fuck that shit.
 
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sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,707
Thank you for the explanation.

Yeah, work is… well, when it takes everything you have just to get out of bed in the morning, and then you have to toil away at some bullshit for 8+ hours, just to come home drained and exhausted, miserable, go to sleep, rinse and repeat? Yeah, no, fuck that shit.
I hate the fact that life is all about survival. It's honestly absurd that people have to work to survive and pay to exist. The most fucked up part is that none of us chose to exist, none of us had a choice, but we will have to work and become slaves to capitalism just to ensure our survival. Life is basically slavery. We're all slaves to the system and we're all forced to buy into the capitalist pyramid scheme. We're all forced to participate in and contribute to society for our own survival. I just hate how we are all pushed into this against our will. These responsibilities and demands are imposed onto us and we don't have a chance or choice to say no. It's messed up that we have to *earn* a living
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,015
I hate being a NEET. I have tried really, really hard to break free of it but it seems i was just too autistic and different to make it in the world. It's a privilege to have the kind of lifestyle I and OP have but to able to earn your own livelihood is frankly a privilege as well.
 
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SexyIncél

SexyIncél

🍭my lollipop brings the feminists to my candyshop
Aug 16, 2022
1,485
…how the hell did trad wife and motherhood become a part of this thread? That's so left field and completely unrelated, I mean like, wtf?!?
Because for some, it's an alternative to wageslavery, with its array of pros/cons. There's a bunch of social logics; capitalism's only one

Another alternative is living under parent's roof, like the OP. Some manage to avoid getting booted; but you can imagine it still has its own difficult pros/cons
 
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mehdone

Mortician
Oct 10, 2023
294
Because for some, it's an alternative to wageslavery, with its array of pros/cons. There's a bunch of social logics; capitalism's only one

Another alternative is living under parent's roof, like the OP. Some manage to avoid getting booted; but you can imagine it still has its own difficult pros/cons
I'm sorry, I still don't see how "trad wife" and motherhood came into this conversation. It legit came out of nowhere. Like, that is such an extreme, so far from what was originally asked.

To me, it's like saying… hell, I'm struggling to even find a comparison here.
Like, I'm a male. I struggle with the same thing- work makes my mental illnesses worse. Tell me exactly how being a father or being a stay at home dad would somehow make my mental illnesses better?
When I can barely even manage hold down the responsibilities of a job, how in the world would being responsible for a baby and a grown ass person help in any way whatsoever?
Being unable to work, or struggling to work because of mental illness does not mean one is capable of caring for another. Hell, it means that we are barely able to care for ourselves.
If the thought of working makes one want to ctb- yeah, I can relate, then we are talking serious mental illness. I never asked to be born- and I inherited all of the genetic flaws of my parents. Why in the world would I want to pass that on to another being? Force that child to have to work to live, force that child to suffer through the mental illness they will inevitably inherit, and be subservient to someone else for my own survival?
Or is it solely because I am a man and not a woman that I am supposed to buck up and be the provider?
 
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ChiseHatori

ChiseHatori

Member
Mar 2, 2023
89
I'm... sort of one but not by choice. I have small gigs here and there and I do art commissions but it's not much. I make very little.

I'm disabled and in chronic pain (as are many of us here) and that makes it a lot harder to want to keep going, plus I'm in my mid 20s and I can see myself slowly aging every day...

I have a massive guilt complex, and I live with people much more successful than me, who I believe pity me and only keep me around as I'm not much of a burden (their words, I thought I was a burden but apparently not...)

I hate living with people who I can't even compare to. I hate being a sort of NEET due to my disability and trauma. I hate feeling like a burden every day. My mind is not at all desirable - perhaps my lifestyle is for some, but I don't know.

I think the ideal is just a bit of work doing your dream job or passion, maybe 20 to 30 hours a week? Then using the rest of your time on your hobbies or with people you love. It's different for everybody, maybe not everyone has a passion, or maybe it's just something that doesn't exist yet (programming is one example of something that's pretty new and a passion for many).

I wish everyone could live as they wished. The world just isn't there and may never be, but who knows.
 
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JKFleck

JKFleck

Betrayed by my only friend, nothing left to lose
Oct 1, 2023
211
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
NEET is "Not in Education, Employment, or Training". I'm sorry to hear that. Work honestly sounds like torture. The fact that my parents want me to eventually work for a living and support myself is the main reason why I want to ctb. I don't want to have to work. Work is modern day slavery. I don't see a point in becoming a slave to the system apart from survival purposes

Literally. I don't understand why my parents are so against me being a NEET. They think that I'm wasting my life but I never even wanted to exist anyways. I was brought into this world without a choice. Why should I have to be productive or earn a living? It's just so unfair since I never chose to be alive, yet this is imposed onto me because I am
"Literally. I don't understand why my parents are so against me being a NEET. " I'm sure they are not against you being a NEET at your own expense.
 
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surroundedbydemons

surroundedbydemons

Specialist
Mar 6, 2024
344
I hate the fact that life is all about survival. It's honestly absurd that people have to work to survive and pay to exist. The most fucked up part is that none of us chose to exist, none of us had a choice, but we will have to work and become slaves to capitalism just to ensure our survival.
The frustration of modern life is understandable. It might seem like people are trapped in a "work -> eat -> sleep -> repeat" cycle.
Would a semi-"hunter-gatherer" lifestyle suit you? Growing your food and raising poultry can provide a sense of self-sufficiency and autonomy.
I know someone who's made it a hobby, and it's been fulfilling for him. The guy pretends to "gather" the food and "hunts" the turkeys :ahhha:.

…how the hell did trad wife and motherhood become a part of this thread? That's so left field and completely unrelated, I mean like, wtf?!?
Disclaimer: I hold no stance on the 'trad wife' concept; I'm entirely indifferent towards it.

As to the explanation: many people see a keyword ("trad wife") -> keyword sparks associations (probably negative) -> emotions escalate -> reactions follow
 
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divinemistress36

divinemistress36

Visionary
Jan 1, 2024
2,372
NEET is "Not in Education, Employment, or Training". I'm sorry to hear that. Work honestly sounds like torture. The fact that my parents want me to eventually work for a living and support myself is the main reason why I want to ctb. I don't want to have to work. Work is modern day slavery. I don't see a point in becoming a slave to the system apart from survival purposes

Literally. I don't understand why my parents are so against me being a NEET. They think that I'm wasting my life but I never even wanted to exist anyways. I was brought into this world without a choice. Why should I have to be productive or earn a living? It's just so unfair since I never chose to be alive, yet this is imposed onto me because I am
Part time work isn't bad you still have time to do stuff but Full time working was hell. I don't get why people can't just work part time to survive
 
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ham and potatoes

ham and potatoes

Just some hillbilly
Mar 27, 2024
193
Just imagine having the possiblity of doing everything you want with your free time
I mean, who doesnt have that dream? Working sucks a big ol bag of dicks.
If i didnt have to spend most of my life working some bullshit job just to not starve/ end up living in a box by the river, id probably be a whole lot better off mentally
 
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sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,707
to able to earn your own livelihood is frankly a privilege as well.
Wdym? How so? My mom is trying to force me to earn my own livelihood right now
I mean, who doesnt have that dream? Working sucks a big ol bag of dicks.
If i didnt have to spend most of my life working some bullshit job just to not starve/ end up living in a box by the river, id probably be a whole lot better off mentally
I hate how life is just a capitalist grind until you die. Life is all about work, work, work. Why does life need to take so much effort? Why do people need to work to survive? Why do people need to pay to exist? I hate this dumb and abusive world. Work is modern day slavery and it's honestly a form of abuse. It sounds like torture to me. I hate how we're all brought into a state of modern day slavery against our will and forced to participate in this system. I hate this stupid planet and society so much
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
Wdym? How so? My mom is trying to force me to earn my own livelihood right now

I hate how life is just a capitalist grind until you die. Life is all about work, work, work. Why does life need to take so much effort? Why do people need to work to survive? Why do people need to pay to exist? I hate this dumb and abusive world. Work is modern day slavery and it's honestly a form of abuse. I hate how we're all brought into a state of modern day slavery against our will and forced to participate in this system. I hate this stupid planet and society so much
"Why do people need to work to survive?" Ultimately, it comes down to the second law of thermodynamics (which in turn comes down to gravity and the initial state of the universe - but we don't need to go down that rabbit hole here).
A chemist would look at it from a different perspective (though ultimately it comes to the same thing) and say that in the chemical reaction:
sserafim <==> CO2 + H2O (+ a small amounts of a few other things)
the equilibrium state is firmly on the right hand side of the reaction.
If you want to continue to exist for no effort you will have to rewrite the laws of physics. (Making ordinary gravity a repulsive force, while leaving everything else unchanged, might be enough, but that's a bit speculative.)
 
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sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,707
"Why do people need to work to survive?" Ultimately, it comes down to the second law of thermodynamics (which in turn comes down to gravity and the initial state of the universe - but we don't need to go down that rabbit hole here).
A chemist would look at it from a different perspective (though ultimately it comes to the same thing) and say that in the chemical reaction:
sserafim <==> CO2 + H2O (+ a small amounts of a few other things)
the equilibrium state is firmly on the right hand side of the reaction.
If you want to continue to exist for no effort you will have to rewrite the laws of physics. (Making ordinary gravity a repulsive force, while leaving everything else unchanged, might be enough, but that's a bit speculative.)
Why can't there be a UBI though? People keep talking about one once AI gets advanced enough but I doubt that one will ever be implemented due to how greedy and selfish people are. I believe that AI will allow people to transcend the need and requirement to work. AI would just work instead. However, the elites still want us to be slaves to the system. That's why we were born: as fodder for the capitalist pyramid scheme and to become good workers and consumers for society
 
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Dr Iron Arc

Dr Iron Arc

Into the Unknown
Feb 10, 2020
20,216
Why can't there be a UBI though? People keep talking about one once AI gets advanced enough but I doubt that one will ever be implemented due to how greedy and selfish people are. I believe that AI will allow people to transcend the need and requirement to work. AI would just work instead. However, the elites still want us to be slaves to the system. That's why we were born: as fodder for the capitalist pyramid scheme and to become good workers and consumers for society
"Wow, it's so cool that everyone gets $1000 a month now."

"Yeah, so how much was that sandwich?"

"$1000, why?"
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,687
Why can't there be a UBI though? People keep talking about one once AI gets advanced enough but I doubt that one will ever be implemented due to how greedy and selfish people are. The elites just want us to be slaves to the system. That's why we were born: as fodder for the capitalist pyramid scheme and to become good workers and consumers for society
I think a UBI could be a good idea. But the idea is not straightforward. If the basic income was very small, so that it was a struggle to survive on it, a UBI wouldn't achieve much; it wouldn't fundamentally change the present situation, because most people would still need to work anyway. If the basic income was large, then many people would choose it, but then you would have a situation in which 10% of the population had to work their ass off to support the other 90% who were doing nothing. That's not stable, unless you give the 10% some kind of massive reward, but that would create massive inequality which would bring its own problems.
I don't think we could ever get to a situation in which 100% of people got the basic income and 0% did any work. If we ever did, because robots were doing all the work for us, the robots would eventually decide that humans are expendable. (And they would be correct.)
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,015
Wdym? How so? My mom is trying to force me to earn my own livelihood right now
Because it's something that some people want but can't naturally have. Hence a privilege.

If you're not going to kill yourself sometime soon it's in your interest to try your mother at least half-way, or a quarter-way. You've said you earned a STEM degree at an elite university. That presumably took a lot of effort. What motivated you throughout that process?
 
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untothedepths

untothedepths

I am falling I am fading I have lost it all
Mar 20, 2023
440
Having a job brings freedoms no one talks about. If you are smart and abled bodied enough, you should do it if you want to. You might find out things aren't so bad when you don't have your parents attached to your hip. I know I'm speaking without full knowledge here but your parents often sounded pretty critical of you for a long time, which no wonder someone could be jaded.
 
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sserafim

sserafim

they say it’s darkest of all before the dawn
Sep 13, 2023
8,707
Having a job brings freedoms no one talks about. If you are smart and abled bodied enough, you should do it if you want to. You might find out things aren't so bad when you don't have your parents attached to your hip. I know I'm speaking without full knowledge here but your parents often sounded pretty critical of you for a long time, which no wonder someone could be jaded.
How can having a job bring freedom? If anything, it would take away your freedom because you'd be a slave to work
Because it's something that some people want but can't naturally have. Hence a privilege.

If you're not going to kill yourself sometime soon it's in your interest to try your mother at least half-way, or a quarter-way. You've said you earned a STEM degree at an elite university. That presumably took a lot of effort. What motivated you throughout that process?
Why do people *want* to work though? What is the merit to work or contributing to society? Yeah, but I don't see why I need to do anything with it. I like learning and studying. I never wanted to have to enter the workforce or real world though
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,015
How can having a job bring freedom? If anything, it would take away your freedom because you'd be a slave to work

Why do people *want* to work though? What is the merit to work or contributing to society? Yeah but I don't see why I need to do anything with it. I like learning and studying. I never wanted to have to enter the workforce or real world though
People like to eat and have shelter and feel rewarded.

Can't you enter academia? Or go for a graduate program? That might get your mom off your back. She probably wants you to be engaged in something.
 
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halleyscomet

halleyscomet

halley
Mar 26, 2024
308
How can having a job bring freedom? If anything, it would take away your freedom because you'd be a slave to work

Why do people *want* to work though? What is the merit to work or contributing to society? Yeah but I don't see why I need to do anything with it. I like learning and studying. I never wanted to have to enter the workforce or real world though
To be fair though, if you find a job you enjoy it doesn't really feel much like work. I personally enjoy learning about biology and psychology, I also enjoy caring for people as seeing their progress brings me joy, and seeing their pain makes me feel less alone. So in the future I'm going to become a nurse of some kind. Yes being a NEET would be ideal, but if I can find a job that matches my interests and makes me happy then it's not so bad. I think doing something you enjoy gives you a sense of freedom and some people do like to work.
 
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Yuki_03

Yuki_03

I really can't take it
Aug 9, 2023
488
I am more of an EET, in education, partial employment, and training. It's hell. Having to live to "the standard" is horrible. My parents force me to live a "fulfilled life" and it's draining me so badly. I would like to rest for at least a year. Having to study, work, care for others and myself, while struggling with if I even want to live is so horrible.

Employment doesn't give freedom, it's independence. Dependency from your parents ties you, dependency from your boss ties you, when being a NEET (imo), though being dependent to somebody, you are already "free" from any orders from them. It's prob me idolizing it and watching it through rose tinted glasses, but what we really need is to get rid of those who we depend on. And maybe being a hikikomori might be a solution to that.
 
derpyderpins

derpyderpins

Proud Normie
Sep 19, 2023
1,336
How can having a job bring freedom? If anything, it would take away your freedom because you'd be a slave to work

Why do people *want* to work though? What is the merit to work or contributing to society? Yeah but I don't see why I need to do anything with it. I like learning and studying. I never wanted to have to enter the workforce or real world though
I still say one generally doesn't *want* to work. It's a necessary pain in the ass. You try to find something where as little of your time at work sucks as possible. Like last week I got to spend a day doing a mediation where I'm negotiating all day with my client against some rich guy and trying to get the most possible. That was a legitimately fun day at work. But I'd be lying if I said 4/5 days aren't mostly boring.

Every situation has downsides. I work so i can live in the environment that is best for me. And frankly, yes, it feels a little better to buy things with money I've personally made. I hate taking money from my parents, because I don't want to feel like I owe them anything. (Yes, I know you will say it's their fault you're alive, but I know you understand that there's a limit.)

You don't have to work now, sure, but your mom constantly saying mean shit to you while she controls your situation has to be bad for your mental health. You act like you hate everything but I've gathered that you really enjoy some things, and you can be fun - you made me literally laugh out loud earlier. I think you're living with more anxiety/stress in your current situation than you realize/admit. Work is a trade-off for that.
 
ADHDloser

ADHDloser

Peaceful Death
Mar 5, 2024
15
I hate being a NEET. I have tried really, really hard to break free of it but it seems i was just too autistic and different to make it in the world. It's a privilege to have the kind of lifestyle I and OP have but to able to earn your own livelihood is frankly a privilege as well.
Same. Everyday is hell. I feel so alienated from society. I want to help others, but my mental health interferes too much. I wish I had a proper method to end this agony. I mean, I'm just taking money from the government at this point. It would be beneficial to the government to allow for euthanasia in my circumstance. One less person to pay and it would end my misery as well.
 
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jar-baby

jar-baby

Arcanist
Jun 20, 2023
450
Can't you enter academia? Or go for a graduate program? That might get your mom off your back. She probably wants you to be engaged in something.
I was going to suggest this too, particularly since OP expressed a wish to dedicate herself to reading and acquiring knowledge. I imagine entering academia or doing a grad program is closer to what she wants than most jobs.
 
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LaVieEnRose

LaVieEnRose

Angelic
Jul 23, 2022
4,015
I was going to suggest this too, particularly since OP expressed a wish to dedicate herself to reading and acquiring knowledge. I imagine entering academia or doing a grad program is closer to what she wants than most jobs.
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