Venting I was robbed of a great death.

[AloneInCollege]

I was robbed of a great death. When I was 4 years old I got cancer. I should have died from it. I would have been remembered as an innocent soul gone too soon. Now I'm 20 and all I'll be remembered as if I c.t.b is someone who lived for too long. Making lives worse along the way. It's not fair, I had the best way to go and it was taken away.

 

[Pluto]

I know how you feel. I had asthma when I was young and only survived because of the latest drugs and hospital technology of the '80s. My very existence would have been unthinkable at any previous time in the 200,000 years of human history.

The old statistic that 'people historically only lived to 30 on average' is due to people like us only surviving a short time after birth and dragging the average down. :D

 

[demuic]

Some people suffer for years and wish for death, while others have their lives cut short before they were ready. There is nothing fair about this world.

Your feelings are understandable. There are a lot of trolls on here recently, so don't pay them any mind.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

Saying cancer is the best way to go is pretty insensitive of all the people who suffer and died painfully deaths with a horrible disease, also tot he families that have to deal with that

Bro they legit are only saying it would be nice to die early to avoid a shitty life (for *themselves*). Cancer just happens to be the deadly thing.

 

[Red Scare]

Bro they legit are only saying it would be nice to die early to avoid a shitty life (for *themselves*). Cancer just happens to be the deadly thing.

At 20 they've barely even begun living.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I definitely understand your regret for still being here on this horrible planet. But I don't think cancer is a good way to go. It's A way to go, but it's likely to be painful.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

At 20 they've barely even begun living.

What age is old enough to you? Should they endure until 40? Is that enough?

I'm asking seriously. You're not alone in your opinion here; I have seen it on the forum before. It is a touchy subject that comes up again and again. When does it switch from barely started living to having lived a life? Until about the 1800's life expectancy was about 30-40 in Europe. Is that it? Or does skin have to be wrinkling? Do they need to have married and had a family? What if they don't want kids, is it different? Do they have to have helped their boss buy 10 Yachts? 20?

Many children are dealt an abysmally shitty hand from birth with abusive parents in a low economic household. That means they would have put up with that for a minimum of 18 years. And then the trauma doesn't disappear in the second half like magic.

Make it make sense.

 

[Niko66]

Jesus fucking Christ, what is with all these edge lords making these edgy comments lately.

Remembered for living too long? You're 20 fucking years old.

Saying cancer is the best way to go is pretty insensitive of all the people who suffer and died very painful deaths with a horrible disease, also tot he families that have to deal with that.

Like half the world would be offended and think us crazy of the mere fact we even consider death as an option and that it should be a choice. I don't know why are you so preocuppied always with defending people not in the room while feeling perfectly justified in bashing the OPs, people who you can actually reach and affect with your words.

How many people do you think hate these forums after finding out someone they cared about spent time here before CTB? How many people do you think would be outraged that we don't value life the same way as they do? How many people who wished for longer lives would find it a bad joke that young "healthy" individuals are talking about and seeking death? Is our mere existence here offensive? Hell yes man, that's no justification to treat people without respect for their *mere thoughts*.

You can again for example, say the last paragraph you did without treating the OP by names and ridiculing his notion that their lives have been too long, you don't even know what kind of life they have had nor why they feel this way, it gets the point across all th same. Just saying man, saying your piece while still respecting other humans... it ain't that hard.

 

[Red Scare]

Many children are dealt an abysmally shitty hand from birth with abusive parents in a low economic household. That means they would have put up with that for a minimum of 18 years. And then the trauma doesn't disappear in the second half like magic.

Trust me, I know that. I was abused both physically and sexually, by my own family. I was raised in poverty. I wanted to die when I was 19.

But then I got out on my own, and left that all behind me. The thing is, when you are that young there is enough time for you to completely turn your situation around. I was a different person by 25 than I was at 19, and in spite of my past, I was loving life. I would still have been loving my life if tragedy didn't strike me, and if I had killed myself when I was 19 I would have never gotten married, or done many other things I would not change for the world.

Most of the other people here on this forum that are around my age, are here because of some tragedy, or illness that struck, or they just never did anything with themselves, and now they feel it's too late. But someone who's 20 is young enough to still do something with their lives, and turn it around and still have a fulfilling and enjoyable life.

When someone is so fixated on suicide from such a young age, and they obsess over it, and think that life is just shit and it's going to be shit, then they will start to believe it. They are not even giving themselves a chance at life. You can always ctb later if things don't work out, and just because there are older people here my age for whom things never worked out doesn't mean that will be the fate of every young person.

 

[FuneralCry]

To me, cancer does sound like a horrible way to go, but the way you feel is understandable, I also wish that I died when I was very young as it would have prevented a lot of suffering and it would mean that I would not have to ctb. I do envy those who have passed away as they are free from all pain and suffering. I wish that I was never born more than anything.

 

[Red Scare]

Like half the world would be offended and think us crazy of the mere fact we even consider death as an option and that it should be a choice. I don't know why are you so preocuppied always with defending people not in the room while feeling perfectly justified in bashing the OPs, people who you can actually reach and affect with your words.

How many people do you think hate these forums after finding out someone they cared about spent time here before CTB? How many people do you think would be outraged that we don't value life the same way as they do? How many people who wished for longer lives would find it a bad joke that young "healthy" individuals are talking about and seeking death? Is our mere existence here offensive? Hell yes man, that's no justification to treat people without respect for their *mere thoughts*.

You can again for example, say the last paragraph you did without treating the OP by names and ridiculing his notion that their lives have been too long, you don't even know what kind of life they have had nor why they feel this way, it gets the point across all th same. Just saying man, saying your piece while still respecting other humans... it ain't that hard.

I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact this is a pro choice forum, it's not pro suicide.

I would hardly be the only person here who would ask someone to consider if they are really making a rational decision that they have fully thought out. I question whether someone so young who's brain is still developing if they are even capable of making such a decision.

BTW, in countries with legal VAD, or MAID, there is still a strict protocol to follow, and a vetting process to evaluate if a person is of sound mind.

 

[Superdeterminist]

What age is old enough to you? Should they endure until 40? Is that enough?

I'm asking seriously. You're not alone in your opinion here; I have seen it on the forum before. It is a touchy subject that comes up again and again. When does it switch from barely started living to having lived a life? Until about the 1800's life expectancy was about 30-40 in Europe. Is that it? Or does skin have to be wrinkling? Do they need to have married and had a family? What if they don't want kids, is it different? Do they have to have helped their boss buy 10 Yachts? 20?

Many children are dealt an abysmally shitty hand from birth with abusive parents in a low economic household. That means they would have put up with that for a minimum of 18 years. And then the trauma doesn't disappear in the second half like magic.

Make it make sense.

I agree, there isn't a universal 'graph of life enjoyment' that applies to everyone, where it begins to increase after the 20s. For some, the enjoyment is at zero the entire time, for others the enjoyment might plummet after 20s, and all other variations are possible. You only have to think of the homeless people in their 30s/40s, or even the people on this forum in that older age bracket to realise that isn't true. Personally the best time in life was high school years (still kinda shitty though overall), and it's just gone downhill from there. I don't know what the graph will do next, but I shouldn't be expected to wait for it to maybe improve.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

Trust me, I know that. I was abused both physically and sexually, by my own family. I was raised in poverty. I wanted to die when I was 19.

But then I got out on my own, and left that all behind me. The thing is, when you are that young there is enough time for you to completely turn your situation around. I was a different person by 25 than I was at 19, and in spite of my past, I was loving life. I would still have been loving my life. I fi had killed myself when I was 19 I would have never gotten married, or done many other things I would not change for the world.

Most of the other people here on this forum that are around my age, are here because of some tragedy, or illness that struck, or they just never did anything with themselves, and now they feel it's too late. But someone who's 20 is young enough to still do something with their lives, and turn it around and still have a fulfilling and enjoyable life.

When someone fixated on suicide from such a young age, and they obsess over it, and think that life is just shit and it's going to be shit, then they will start to believe it. They are not even giving themselves a chance at life. You can always ctb later if things don't work out, and just because there are older people here my age for whom things never worked out doesn't mean that will be the fate of every young person.

I think it's the unwillingness to take the gamble, given that we all die anyway and nothing changes that (I know it is easy to call that thought edgy, but I'm afraid it is true regardless).

You establish here, clearly, that not everyone will discover themselves and make a miraculous turn-around of their tormented psyche, to become strong and dependable. This is a gamble. I do not feel I have the right to judge uniformly that those in their 20's are young, and so they are just ignorant to the potential they have. Time is not always a sign of potential energy. It might just be more time living with devestation after devestation. I think optimism can also be dangerous.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the reasoning in your comment and it might help some people in their 20's. It does bother me though (it elicits melancholy in me) that you've still ended up here yourself.

 

[Niko66]

I think a lot of people lose sight of the fact this is a pro choice forum, it's not pro suicide.

I would hardly be the only person here who would ask someone to consider if they are really making a rational decision that they have fully thought out. I question whether someone so young who's brain is still developing if they are even capable of making such a decision.

BTW, in countries with legal VAD, or MAID, there is still a strict protocol to follow, and a vetting process to evaluate if a person is of sound mind.

That's quite fair. You can say exactly that, I only take issue with the way you convey things I am guessing in the heat of the emotion at first, because right now you are being perfectly reasonable.

Ridicule is hardly going to make someone reconsider or be more receptive to your words.
Instead of "20 years? What a joke! this is a total edgelord".
Using your own words, if you think they are too young then ask them to consider if their decision is rational and thought out. Mention that their brains are developing, that's all perfectly fair man. Just pleading with you to treat people in vulnerable situations with a bit more tact from the get go, "assumes innocent until proven guilty". Your very same posts often exemplify perfectly good ways to try to engage others with your points, insults and belittlement aren't necessary.

 

[Red Scare]

I agree, there isn't a universal 'graph of life enjoyment' that applies to everyone, where it begins to increase after the 20s. For some, the enjoyment is at zero the entire time, for others the enjoyment might plummet after 20s, and all other variations are possible. You only have to think of the homeless people in their 30s/40s, or even the people on this forum in that older age bracket to realise that isn't true. Personally the best time in life was high school years (still kinda shitty though overall), and it's just gone downhill from there. I don't know what the graph will do next, but I shouldn't be expected to wait for it to maybe improve.

Yes but at the same time there are several people who are enjoying life, and don't feel their life ended after their 20s, or after their high school years. A lot of people do feel better when they get out on their own, and they are supporting themselves and they are experiencing more freedom and possibility. This nihilistic view that life is just shit and so everyone should ctb is concerning.

I think it's the unwillingness to take the gamble, given that we all die anyway and nothing changes that (I know it is easy to call that thought edgy, but I'm afraid it is true regardless).

You establish here, clearly, that not everyone will discover themselves and make a miraculous turn-around of their tormented psyche, to become strong and dependable. This is a gamble. I do not feel I have the right to judge uniformly that those in their 20's are young, and so they are just ignorant to the potential they have. Time is not always a sign of potential energy. It might just be more time living with devestation after devestation. I think optimism can also be dangerous.

Nonetheless, I appreciate the reasoning in your comment and it might help some people in their 20's. It does bother me though (it elicits melancholy in me) that you've still ended up here yourself.

So what, everybody dies. I guess we should just unleash the worlds nuclear arsenal and get it over with already?

Once again, just because I ended up here and others did, doesn't mean that life is uniformly shit. I don't think that is a good message. This isn't a pro suicide forum, we aren't some death cult.

That's quite fair. You can say exactly that, I only take issue with the way you convey things I am guessing in the heat of the emotion at first, because right now you are being perfectly reasonable.

Ridicule is hardly going to make someone reconsider or be more receptive to your words.
Instead of "20 years? What a joke! this is a total edgelord".
Using your own words, if you think they are too young then ask them to consider if their decision is rational and thought out. Mention that their brains are developing, that's all perfectly fair man. Just pleading with you to treat people in vulnerable situations with a bit more tact from the get go, "assumes innocent until proven guilty". Your very same posts often exemplify perfectly good ways to try to engage others with your points, insults and belittlement aren't necessary.

It wasn't meant as an insult to them, I have just noticed an uptick in edgy kind of people here and I have to wonder if they are just here to vent and LARP. I mean whatever keeps them from the precipice, but my gods, it just comes of as so immature and histrionic at times. And then you have peple like above who encourage this, saying life is just shit, and that it's all terrible and downhill.

 

[Famous Last Words]

I was just thinking about something similar. I was hit by a car when I was about 5 or 6 and I was thinking that if I'd gone then, it wouldn't have been a great loss. Now I'm 43 and I think I've wanted to go, on and off, since I was about 13.

The last three years have been the worst for it. I've been throwing myself into having experiences and making the most of life, secretly hoping for something miraculous to happen, but the feeling just intensifies. Right now this second, I'm sat in the sunshine on a bench next to the River Seine, Eiffel tower in the distance, watching the boats and people going past and I'm here thinking about how much I don't want to live anymore. Everything is just a reminder that I've reached the end of line.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Yes but at the same time there are several people who are enjoying life, and don't feel their life ended after their 20s, or after their high school years. A lot of people do feel better when they get out on their own, and they are supporting themselves and they are experiencing more freedom and possibility. This nihilistic view that life is just shit and so everyone should ctb is concerning.

It takes good luck to get out on one's own and to be able to support oneself in a comfortable manner. Only some of us get that lucky.

 

[existcrisisactor]

I was robbed of a great death. When I was 4 years old I got cancer. I should have died from it. I would have been remembered as an innocent soul gone too soon. Now I'm 20 and all I'll be remembered as if I c.t.b is someone who lived for too long. Making lives worse along the way. It's not fair, I had the best way to go and it was taken away.

i am sorry to hear that i too was robbed of a great death being born premature without skin barely survived all sorts of surgeries as grew up they should of let me die

 

[VoidDesirer22]

So what, everybody dies. I guess we should just unleash the worlds nuclear arsenal and get it over with already?

Once again, just because I ended up here and others did, doesn't mean that life is uniformly shit. I don't think that is a good message. This isn't a pro suicide forum, we aren't some death cult.

I just find it sad that the people irl and a lot on the internet who suffer greatly themselves can be some of the biggest advocates of pressing on with life until the bitter end. Pensive sadness is induced. It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves sometimes. The best person I met was the same and admitted to me they'd suicide if they could. I'm not generalizing their experience, Incase you runaway with that.

Saying life ends in death inevitably doesn't = prosuicide. You're inferring the message out of thin air. I can't believe I'm feeling the need to write that out.

But if you're so big on pro choice you have 0 right to push a 20 year old into not ctb'ing. It goes both ways: no death cult and no life cult.

 

[Ligottian]

I once overheard my mother say she had a miscarriage before I came along. I sometimes think about, and envy, my "phantom sibling".

 

[Red Scare]

It takes good luck to get out on one's own and to be able to support oneself in a comfortable manner. Only some of us get that lucky.

Luck doesn't exist. There is no super natural force that makes someone's life worse and another persons better. I mean, should we carry around a rabbits foot just in case? That seems silly.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Luck doesn't exist. There is no super natural force that makes someone's life worse and another persons better. I mean, should we carry around a rabbits foot just in case? That seems silly.

I wonder how you can say there is no such thing as luck. What do you want to call it then, the fact that I was born with all four of my limbs but some poor sucker out there was born without arms? Or that I haven't experienced cancer up to this point in my life, but some poor kid suffered and died of it before their teens? These are not instances of luck? Everything in life is like this, when you scrutinise it closely. It isn't an appeal to the supernatural; I don't believe that anything lies outside nature (per my definition of nature). There is no formal recipe that assures a nice life because the vast complexity of reality forbids such a thing.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

Luck doesn't exist. There is no super natural force that makes someone's life worse and another persons better. I mean, should we carry around a rabbits foot just in case? That seems silly.

Luck isn't a supernatural force? What? It's a human observation of statistical probability.

 

[Red Scare]

I just find it sad that the people irl and a lot on the internet who suffer greatly themselves can be some of the biggest advocates of pressing on with life until the bitter end. Pensive sadness is induced. It's almost like they're trying to convince themselves sometimes. The best person I met was the same and admitted to me they'd suicide if they could. I'm not generalizing their experience, Incase you runaway with that.

Saying life ends in death inevitably doesn't = prosuicide. You're inferring the message out of thin air. I can't believe I'm feeling the need to write that out.

But if you're so big on pro choice you have 0 right to push a 20 year old into not ctb'ing. It goes both ways: no death cult and no life cult.

I didn't say it was pro suicide outlook, but it's a very nihilistic take. I mean should we just nuke the world because everyone dies and life is pointless?

If you disagree, then you have to admit I have a point. I still fail to see what your point is though. Life is just shit, so let's all ctb?

I agree with you it's a gamble, but so is getting in your car every time. It's impossible to know at that age how things will turn out.

I'm not pushing anyone to ctb to not ctb. I'm saying someone that young may not have the mental clarity or soundness of mind to make such a decision. There is a reason countries that have legalized VAD, and MAID make absolutely sure a person is of sound mind before proceeding.

You'd think from some of the replies on this forum that they think euthanasia should be available to everyone all the time, so that a 9 year old who is upset about not getting ice cream can just ctb.

I wonder how you can say there is no such thing as luck. What do you want to call it then, the fact that I was born with all four of my limbs but some poor sucker out there was born without arms? Or that I haven't experienced cancer up to this point in my life, but some poor kid suffered and died of it before their teens? These are not instances of luck? Everything in life is like this, when you scrutinise it closely. It isn't an appeal to the supernatural; I don't believe that anything lies outside nature (per my definition of nature).

It's not luck. Like everything in nature "it just is".

I'm not sure what the point is about people born without limbs? Was the OP born without limbs, did I miss something?

There is no formal recipe that assures a nice life because the vast complexity of reality forbids such a thing.

And yet people all over the planet are living what they deem to be nice lives.

Luck isn't a supernatural force? What? It's a human observation of statistical probability.

No, luck doesn't exist. Nobody can possibly predict all the statistical probabilities to determine whether their life will turn out good or bad. There are too many variables. It's best to just go about your day and not worry about it.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

You'd think from some of the replies on this forum that they think euthanasia should be available to everyone all the time, so that a 9 year old who is upset about not getting ice cream can just ctb.

I have had this exact conversation before, I swear. The same derailing tropes are here in their exact forms.
Appealing to an absurdly low age to justify a different point.
And repeating the thing about "so you're saying why don't we all die then?" Which is impossible to reply to.

My point in a condensed form is that if youre so eager to call out death cult stuff, then try to be aware of pernicious life cult stuff. Avoiding the most optimistic view does not default to "let's all die hurr durr" and stop pretending it does.

Anyway I think we got the thoughts out here. It isn't about us two, it is about who reads it and considers the points. I always think it is easier for people to change their minds when they're not directly tasked with justifying their own thoughts. There will always be a bit of ego there.

 

[Superdeterminist]

It's not luck. Like everything in nature "it just is".

I'm not sure what the point is about people born without limbs? Was the OP born without limbs, did I miss something?

I call that luck, when something just is the way that it is. You can use another word, but I think the word luck is convenient for it. I don't know how many limbs OP has, but it's just one example of a circumstance. There's something that OP dislikes about their life to the point of wanting to ctb, there is something missing from it, be it limbs or whatever else.

You'd think from some of the replies on this forum that they think euthanasia should be available to everyone all the time, so that a 9 year old who is upset about not getting ice cream can just ctb.

I actually do think this should be an option. It is a funny one to consider, but in sober truth, I do think such a level of freedom would be good. Because, unmet desires are disgusting to me, and because an obligation to live is disgusting to me. I know that this is an argument from emotion, but yeah that's my feeling about it.

 

[Red Scare]

I have had this exact conversation before, I swear. The same derailing tropes are here in their exact forms.
Appealing to an absurdly low age to justify a different point.
And repeating the thing about "so you're saying why don't we all die then?" Which is impossible to reply to.

My point in a condensed form is that if youre so eager to call out death cult stuff, then try to be aware of pernicious life cult stuff. Avoiding the most optimistic view does not default to "let's all die hurr durr" and stop pretending it does.

Anyway I think we got the thoughts out here. It isn't about us two, it is about who reads it and considers the points. I always think it is easier for people to change their minds when they're not directly tasked with justifying their own thoughts. There will always be a bit of ego there.

It's got nothing to do with being pro life or a life cult at all, that is just ridiculous.

"no, you!"

My comments are not pro life, and that sort of ridiculous characterization misses the point entirely. Asking someone to consider the choice they want to make, is not pro life. You're the one refusing to engage here in a serious discussion.

I meant that seriously, should we just nuke the world and call it a day? You are the one who brought the whole age thing into the discussion when you said "how long should they wait 40 years?" So should we let a 9 year old ctb over their video game getting taken away? Many of us here are pushing 40, or older, and we are only making this choice because something forces our hand, illness, tragedy, poverty. I'd hate the idea of a young person saying "oh fuck, I better kill myself that could be me one day", yeah well it also might not be. They'll never know if they just throw in the towel at such a young age, and I don't think that someone exhibiting that thought process is exactly thinking clearly. Because one should know that anything can happen at that age. You can always ctb later if life doesn't work out for you. It's not the same when you are 60.

I'm planning to ctb in the immediate future myself. But gods forbid I actually care about young people before I go, I should just be a nihilistic humbug.

 

[Niko66]

I have had this exact conversation before, I swear. The same derailing tropes are here in their exact forms.
Appealing to an absurdly low age to justify a different point.
And repeating the thing about "so you're saying why don't we all die then?" Which is impossible to reply to.

My point in a condensed form is that if youre so eager to call out death cult stuff, then try to be aware of pernicious life cult stuff. Avoiding the most optimistic view does not default to "let's all die hurr durr" and stop pretending it does.

Anyway I think we got the thoughts out here. It isn't about us two, it is about who reads it and considers the points. I always think it is easier for people to change their minds when they're not directly tasked with justifying their own thoughts. There will always be a bit of ego there.

Nah obviously we have someone with the enlightment to decide for everyone else what is best for them, what their lives are like, even how they think. Why even discuss anything?

We should fund the "Red Scare Organizaton for the Suicidal" where you make 5 minute appointments to briefly talk about your issue, and you get to be either belittled and told how much of a clueless idiot you are or you are allowed to die on their whim as deemed worthy by their own beliefs of what your life will be like.

Sorry I try to engage this bullshit in good faith at first but holy shit. Guess that's my cue to leave this thread cuz I am getting fucking pissed at the blatant intellectual dishonesty thrown around.

 

[Superdeterminist]

I meant that seriously, should we just nuke the world and call it a day?

Personally, this is something I would like to do. I would love for the universe to be deleted if that were possible. I do think the erasure of good lives is justified by the erasure of suffering. That's maybe not surprising, since I fall into the suffering camp. Of course, I expect this take to be controversial. But there are also practical considerations that make it untenable. Mainly, that eliminating all life is something that we can't guarantee, it's probably impossible. Then, suffering could just re-emerge from that surviving life and we would have to start over again from the rubble. Even if we could assure elimination of all life, there is no way of being sure that this would prevent a cosmic re-emergence of it elsewhere or in another cycle (assuming a cyclic universe). Still, I would stand behind an attempt at total extinction, and yes I absolutely know this would be considered evil by many. But that's just how much I hate life. In my view, a tame compromise is allowing easy suicide.

 

[Red Scare]

Nah obviously we have someone with the enlightment to decide for everyone else what is best for them, what their lives are like, even how they think. Why even discuss anything?

We should fund the "Red Scare Organizaton for the Suicidal" where you make 5 minute appointments to briefly talk about your issue, and you get to be either belittled and told how much of a clueless idiot you are or you are allowed to die on their whim as deemed worthy by their own beliefs of what your life will be like.

Sorry I try to engage this bullshit in good faith at first but holy shit. Guess that's my cue to leave this thread cuz I am getting fucking pissed at the blatant intellectual dishonesty thrown around.

Jesus fucking Christ, organization for the suicidal? You know, this very forum has a recovery section. So wtf?

Go make a thread there and tell everyone it's just pointless, time to pack it in, everyone should just die.

Of course this is all hyperbole, but if that's the way you want it, have it your way.

I would love for the universe to be deleted if that were possible.

Absolutely ridiculous.