i want to die but religion holding me back

[Bitch With An Apple]

I am also afraid of this. If there is an afterlife, it is possible that it is governed by no rules whatsoever, or a very different set than what we are taught. Near death experience research seems to indicate that there is little correlation between someone's apparent moral standing and whether or not they have a positive experience. Drug overdoses and suicide appear to be correlated with bad experiences more strongly than other kinds of death, but it is unknown whether or not sources of reports have a selection bias. If the afterlife is a hallucination conjured by the brain in its death throes, then perhaps we and those who we allow to influence us are the sole creators of heaven, hell and anything in between. That's a terrifying responsibility to have, especially when so many of us are raised to repress our agency, and there are so many influences that attempt to persuade us to act against our own best interest.

 

[Miserable]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

If you really believe in God... I don't know sounds like you could have a nice life with that

 

[I’vehadenough]

He

It might not help at all, but there is no reason to believe hell exist. There is no reason to believe anything exist after our deaths. It's just easier to fool people with "it's gonna be worse if you suicide" than having them be happy with their lives.
Besides why would hell need to exist to begin with? To punish bad people who shouldn't exist by the logic of God being omni-benevolent? Hell makes no sense. Religion doesn't either. It just wants to control you. So the best gift that you could make to yourself is to act towards correcting whatever is wrong at the moment by the way you wish to. Those people aren't trustworthy because they talk out of ignorance. No one has any proof of hell existing, hell (pun intended) we have more reason to think it doesn't.

Sorry if I sound harsh or judgemental, or incoherent. That wasn't the point.


Yeah i rewrote 3 times my messages to be the less mocking possible.

All does exist. It's on earth. My catholic priest said they dont know what happens to a suicide victem, they only know murder is a sin. In the bible, the people who have commited suicide were led to it because of their bad actions. So I feel like suicide is hell people who sin might have to face, rather than an afterlife thing, but who really knows?

 

[Pupuce]

He
All does exist. It's on earth. My catholic priest said they dont know what happens to a suicide victem, they only know murder is a sin. In the bible, the people who have commited suicide were led to it because of their bad actions. So I feel like suicide is hell people who sin might have to face, rather than an afterlife thing, but who really knows?

Sorry but no. That is not the catholic hell. Hell is described as "fiery lake of burning sulfur" (revelation 21:8), a place we do not have on Earth, and "eternal punishment" (Matthew 25:46), and nothing we can ever know of is eternal. Besides hell is supposed to be in the afterlife. You can't just change the definition like that. Especially when it's in your God-written holy book. As for suicide is for people who did bad actions, well God has a plan for all of us, and since he is all-powerful he is responsible, so he is an asshole to condemn you for that. Also I'm sure you can find people who want to suicide because of sickness or trauma, not just because they don't conform to something's moral code.

 

[I’vehadenough]

Fiery lakes don't scare me compared to the life I am forced to live. Because of my facial disfiguration, I have panic attacks from morning to night, I can't socialize with people anymore unless I want fake sympathy or to be made fun of. No sex either, unless I pay for it, and I can't even take drugs to help the pain because they will make my face worse. I spend my life watching other people enjoy theirs, while I suffer. and there are only so many video games and tv shows you can watch before wanting to blow your head off. So, if god wants to punish me for all the suffering i am doing with 50 more years of it, then maybe there isn't a god after all.

 

[deflagrat]

Religion was meant as a tool to control the population in the Middle Ages. It still has the same purpose, but nowadays you can easily see that everything is fabricated. Spirituality is complete nonsense. I would only believe something if it can be proved and I can understand it, that's what being rational is all about.

 

[Darkhaven]

These fiery lakes the bible mentions are meant for Satan and the angels who joined him in his rebellion. Men aren't the main target for God's wrath as we were also victims of the fallen angel's plan.
And besides, i suspect these fiery lakes are just prophetic metaphors: they don't really exist, and it wouldn't make sense to use them to torture angels. If Satan and his angels are spiritual beings and that means that they don't, unless they want to, possess a body then how come will they be tortured in a sulfur and lava lake?

 

[Shamana]

If buddhism doesn't have any God, (i think it doesn't, might be wrong) that means buddhist are, by definition, atheists. So some atheists at least believe in clairvoyance.
Meeting genuinely clairvoyant people will be complicated as nothing is genuine if it can't be tested in labs, from science standards.

In buddhist teachings Gods do exist but they are not immortal, omnipotent or perfect. Buddhists don't worship them.

 

[Pupuce]

In buddhist teachings Gods do exist but they are not immortal, omnipotent or perfect. Buddhists don't worship them.

Then why call them gods?Sounds more like spiritual leaders.

 

[Shamana]

Then why call them gods?

The word gods is not exclusive to Yaweh/God. However in buddhism they are technically called Devas.

 

[Pupuce]

The word gods is not exclusive to Yaweh/God.

If only. That would make thing much easier.

 

[Suicidal4Ever]

It might not help at all, but there is no reason to believe hell exist. There is no reason to believe anything exist after our deaths. It's just easier to fool people with "it's gonna be worse if you suicide" than having them be happy with their lives.
Besides why would hell need to exist to begin with? To punish bad people who shouldn't exist by the logic of God being omni-benevolent? Hell makes no sense. Religion doesn't either. It just wants to control you. So the best gift that you could make to yourself is to act towards correcting whatever is wrong at the moment by the way you wish to. Those people aren't trustworthy because they talk out of ignorance. No one has any proof of hell existing, hell (pun intended) we have more reason to think it doesn't.

Sorry if I sound harsh or judgemental, or incoherent. That wasn't the point.


Yeah i rewrote 3 times my messages to be the less mocking possible.

Now that you mention it that would be weird if there is a god and he sits back watching a serial killer or terrorist kill tons of people and does nothing till the killer dies and then sends them to hell. Why not stop it before it happens.

 

[LittleJem]

I am a buddhist and karmic consequences of suicide on the afterlife is one of my main fears against comitting suicde. A few ago's i was abusing MDMA and my brain was getting fried and there where these dark demonic shadowy beings just everywhere in my rroom trying to posess and drag me down to hell.

Some months later I good hell realms the first picture contained the beings trying to drag me down there and posess my body. The most enlightened women told me that the karma of killing yourself is the same as killing another. And then she told me "Alexander you're going to hell".

When I was in psyc ward I manage go smuggle in heroin and I took a large dose of curiosity and hallucinated being complete surround of Angel of death with black wings welcoming me to hell.

I also have an enlightened friend who saved one of her friends that had comitted suicide and was beingg pulled down to hell in the bardo-

I am scared of reincarnation/what's next. However, from what I've read, the brains of those who commit suicide are different to healthy brains. Therefore,how can it be anyone's fault or responsibility. I don't believe in free will anyway, and it is all Maya. But I do worry that if I kill myself I'll go somewhere worse, so I know what you mean.

 

[Shamana]

I am scared of reincarnation/what's next. However, from what I've read, the brains of those who commit suicide are different to healthy brains. Therefore,how can it be anyone's fault or responsibility. I don't believe in free will anyway, and it is all Maya. But I do worry that if I kill myself I'll go somewhere worse, so I know what you mean.

Negative thoughts, words and actions lead to negative results. Suicide is only really rational from a Atheistic POV where everyone is headed towards non-existence anyway. It can also be rationel if you believe there is omnipotent compassionate god who will forgive you. I just havn't seen much evidence of this compassionate omnipotent god in the way of the world.

 

[pleasethistime]

i think this kind of thoughts serve survival instinct and maybe that s why we believe so.

 

[Sh00]

I hate to say it but if the catholic/christian/islamic (etc) God actually exists - the one who has created all this suffering, created a hell, created satan, gave free will but also the threat of hell if you didn't use it in exactly the way he wanted you too.....You might be better off getting as far away from it as possible, even if that means Hell. Probably be a heck of a lot better than being in close proximity to a raging psychopath.

 

[marcusuk63]

It's not a very good ratio for reincarnation seeing as it estimated 107 billion people have ever lived and there are 7 billion alive now , where did the other 100 billion go ?

 

[DreamCatcher]

I really want to die but those guys keep saying about "if you commit suicide you will go to hell", now I'm just too afraid to commit suicide

If you believe in a god that much then don't commit suicide.

I don't think you can have both reason and religion, you have to pick just one. One gives you the power and choice, the other you're a puppet. I know which one I choose.

 

[Raggas]

I believe in God but I don't believe our sins on earth can send us to hell, that includes suicide. It is simply a matter of believing in God to avoid punishment.

 

[Shamana]

It's not a very good ratio for reincarnation seeing as it estimated 107 billion people have ever lived and there are 7 billion alive now , where did the other 100 billion go ?View attachment 13536

Infinite universes. Other planets.

 

[marcusuk63]

Infinite universes. Other planets.

 

[Shamana]

View attachment 13554

?

 

[Jean Améry]

Yes this is an teaching of Padmasambhava who was a Buddha who taught it from his omniscience. It is many senses are hypothesis, but in buddhism becoming extremely clairvoyant is one of fruits on the path to buddhahood. So you got say that if you have super clairvoyance, you can see what happens to people's souls when they die. It is not really a thing you can test in a lab. I understand that atheists and nihilists don't believe in clairvoyance either, but I would just that it is because they have not met geniuenly clairvoyant people.

So basically what I said earlier: in absence of a reliable, objective way of testing this it's simply blind faith. I'm sure these people are highly charismatic and might even be able to delude themselves but nobody with a critical mind will ever buy into these supposed magical abilities.

 

[Shamana]

So basically what I said earlier: in absence of a reliable, objective way of testing this it's simply blind faith. I'm sure these people are highly charismatic and might even be able to delude themselves but nobody with a critical mind will ever buy into these supposed magical abilities.

That's your opinion. If you want to meet people with supramundane abilities you go hang out with real life mahasiddha's. Not the crew from your local church.

So basically what I said earlier: in absence of a reliable, objective way of testing this it's simply blind faith. I'm sure these people are highly charismatic and might even be able to delude themselves but nobody with a critical mind will ever buy into these supposed magical abilities.

I could provide a huge amount of personal stories where people I know have manifested extreme clairvoyance, but I know most people are so biased they believe you are either deluded or stupid no matter what you say.

 

[Jean Améry]

That's your opinion.

That there is no way to objectively prove these magical abilities is not my opinion, it's fact. Which you acknowledged btw.

Untill such proof is forthcoming I'll simply deny the existence of such 'abilities'. Which is entirely reasonable. Unlike your persistence in blindly believing whatever you want to believe. To call anyone who is sceptical 'biased' is a sure sign of ignorance and a cult-like mindset. Reality isn't what you choose to believe it is and denying the existence of something that cannot be proven is the opposite of bias: it's common-sense and completely and utterly rational. Otherwise there is no standard of truth anymore and anyone gets to pick and choose whatever they want and call that truth and reality. Which amounts to intellectual nihilism: everything is true and nothing is true.

Which is what you do obviously with your belief in guru's, wisemen, saints or whatever you want to call them. As a Zen saying goes: "If you see the Buddha kill him".

If you are able to provide real, verifiable evidence reason would dictate to accept this evidence and therefore acknowledge a new fact was added to our knowledge of the world. Clearly you cannot and you know perfectly well you cannot hence your ad hominem argument: instead of defending your own case you attack those who critizes you.

I could provide a huge amount of personal stories where people I know have manifested extreme clairvoyance

Anecdotes prove nothing. No matter how much you want to believe they do.

It's funny to see that you as a buddhist (a religion which claims to be non-dualistic) are so attached to what you think is true (opinion, not fact) you have to resort to all sorts of fallacies. It just goes to show that even high-minded philosophies and noble ways of living such as buddhism are not able to eradicate the innate irrationality (wishful thinking) which is typical of the human semi-intelligent animal.

The wisest words I ever heard on buddhism were spoken by Thich Nat Han: "In Buddhism all views are wrong views". Zen or Chan Buddhism does not rely on words, statements, teachings, logic... and hence is immune to everything I've said on this topic before. The ultimate truth is beyond foolish dualistic thinking including belief in the supernatural, souls and seeing souls.

(the statement quoted above starts at 5:52).

 

[Shamana]

That there is no way to objectively prove these magical abilities is not my opinion, it's fact. Which you acknowledged btw.

Untill such proof is forthcoming I'll simply deny the existence of such 'abilities'. Which is entirely reasonable. Unlike your persistence in blindly believing whatever you want to believe. To call anyone who is sceptical 'biased' is a sure sign of ignorance and a cult-like mindset. Reality isn't what you choose to believe it is and denying the existence of something that cannot be proven is the opposite of bias: it's common-sense and completely and utterly rational. Otherwise there is no standard of truth anymore and anyone gets to pick and choose whatever they want and call that truth and reality. Which amounts to intellectual nihilism: everything is true and nothing is true.

Which is what you do obviously with your belief in guru's, wisemen, saints or whatever you want to call them. As a Zen saying goes: "If you see the Buddha kill him".

If you are able to provide real, verifiable evidence reason would dictate to accept this evidence and therefore acknowledge a new fact was added to our knowledge of the world. Clearly you cannot and you know perfectly well you cannot hence your ad hominem argument: instead of defending your own case you attack those who critizes you.



Anecdotes prove nothing. No matter how much you want to believe they do.

It's funny to see that you as a buddhist (a religion which claims to be non-dualistic) are so attached to what you think is true (opinion, not fact) you have to resort to all sorts of fallacies. It just goes to show that even high-minded philosophies and noble ways of living such as buddhism are not able to eradicate the innate irrationality (wishful thinking) which is typical of the human semi-intelligent animal.

The wisest words I ever heard on buddhism were spoken by Thich Nat Han: "In Buddhism all views are wrong views". Zen or Chan Buddhism does not rely on words, statements, teachings, logic... and hence is immune to everything I've said on this topic before. The ultimate truth is beyond foolish dualistic thinking including belief in the supernatural, souls and seeing souls.

(the statement quoted above starts at 5:52).

I really don't blindly believe much. I don't find comfort in the beliefs I have.

Testemonies are evidence for sure but they are not proof. If I wanted you to first hand experience and witness amazing clairvoyance and similar phenomenah there are people I fan mention who are real life siddha's who might be able to demonstrate this for you.

My teacher is the most authentic person i have ever met and also the most enlightened buddihist master of the west(imo) and once at a teaching he told a story about how Chökyi nyima rinpoche once jumped several hundreds meters of a cliff and dance liked it was nothing.

It fair to say that this doesn't prove anything unless it was taped on camera, but it would be wrong to say that my teacher believes that these things are possible out of blind faith.

I have faith in several supramundane phenomena because i have experienced manytimes.


It's true that the correct view is "no view" where our minds are completely free from thoughts, fabrications, concepts and procejtions of reliality.

That there is no way to objectively prove these magical abilities is not my opinion, it's fact. Which you acknowledged btw.

Untill such proof is forthcoming I'll simply deny the existence of such 'abilities'. Which is entirely reasonable. Unlike your persistence in blindly believing whatever you want to believe. To call anyone who is sceptical 'biased' is a sure sign of ignorance and a cult-like mindset. Reality isn't what you choose to believe it is and denying the existence of something that cannot be proven is the opposite of bias: it's common-sense and completely and utterly rational. Otherwise there is no standard of truth anymore and anyone gets to pick and choose whatever they want and call that truth and reality. Which amounts to intellectual nihilism: everything is true and nothing is true.

Which is what you do obviously with your belief in guru's, wisemen, saints or whatever you want to call them. As a Zen saying goes: "If you see the Buddha kill him".

If you are able to provide real, verifiable evidence reason would dictate to accept this evidence and therefore acknowledge a new fact was added to our knowledge of the world. Clearly you cannot and you know perfectly well you cannot hence your ad hominem argument: instead of defending your own case you attack those who critizes you.



Anecdotes prove nothing. No matter how much you want to believe they do.

It's funny to see that you as a buddhist (a religion which claims to be non-dualistic) are so attached to what you think is true (opinion, not fact) you have to resort to all sorts of fallacies. It just goes to show that even high-minded philosophies and noble ways of living such as buddhism are not able to eradicate the innate irrationality (wishful thinking) which is typical of the human semi-intelligent animal.

The wisest words I ever heard on buddhism were spoken by Thich Nat Han: "In Buddhism all views are wrong views". Zen or Chan Buddhism does not rely on words, statements, teachings, logic... and hence is immune to everything I've said on this topic before. The ultimate truth is beyond foolish dualistic thinking including belief in the supernatural, souls and seeing souls.

(the statement quoted above starts at 5:52).

This goes comepletely aganist what the Buddha taught.

 

[Codieb1]

Religion is a man made concept to control people, and Hell is a scare tactic to make you behave. None of it is real.

 

[Jean Améry]

I really don't blindly believe much.

Of course you do: you believe in clairvoyance for heaven's sake... Without any good reason other than that you want to believe it. That's the very definition of 'blind faith/belief'.

Testimonies are only evidence in law, not science.

You keep repeating the same non-arguments. If you don't have anything worthwhile to say (a.k.a. new and not some variation of 'X people experienced it' I'm done with this discussion.

Do show me where it says that Buddha did not reject dualism and in fact believed in souls and the like. He taught the doctrine of non-ego which is the exact opposite of the concept of a 'soul'.

If you want to believe Zen Buddhism and the teachings of Thich Nat Han are contrary to Buddha's teachings that's your business. It's not like we can ask him, can we? In Buddhism there are many schools of thought as to what was Buddha's 'true teaching' is: who can claim to be right in this?

If you acknowledge the thesis of non views is correct how can you claim your view of the existence of clairvoyance is in accord with this? It's a view, isn't it?

 

[Shamana]

Of course you do: you believe in clairvoyance for heaven's sake... Without any good reason other than that you want to believe it. That's the very definition of 'blind faith/belief'.

Testimonies are only evidence in law, not science.

You keep repeating the same non-arguments. If you don't have anything worthwhile to say (a.k.a. new and not some variation of 'X people experienced it' I'm done with this discussion.

Do show me where it says that Buddha did not reject dualism and in fact believed in souls and the like. He taught the doctrine of non-ego which is the exact opposite of the concept of a 'soul'.

If you want to believe Zen Buddhism and the teachings of Thich Nat Han are contrary to Buddha's teachings that's your business. It's not like we can ask him, can we? In Buddhism there are many schools of thought as to what was Buddha's 'true teaching' is: who can claim to be right in this?

If you acknowledge the thesis of non views is correct how can you claim your view of the existence of clairvoyance is in accord with this? It's a view, isn't it?

How do you know that I don't have any good reason to believe in clairvoyancy? I belive in it because I've have experienced it undeniably many many times from my teachers. Do you want me to explain what kind of experiences I have had that have made me believe in it?

The Buddha taught literal transmigration of soul's between lives and taught literal rebirth in the 6 realms of Samsara. It is only in the ultimate reality of emptiness that the six reals nor it's beings exist, but they exist in same manner that human and animals.

The doctrine of the ego-illusion does not mean that we don't have souls. It means that the ego is a fabrication and is simply a concept we cling to. We posess a invididual minstream without beginning and without end. In the Mahayana it is allowed to call buddhanature our ego-less soul.

It is when a person's mind is purified of all defilements and obscurations and as well as insight into emptiness that omniscienc becomes possible and the mind crystal clear reflects and know's everything. . In buddhism it is said that our mind is omniscient in nature and this becomes manfifest when our our obscurrations and karma is purified.

Thich Nat Han sells his version of buddhism because he believes that many modern people can benefit from it's methods, ethics and qualities without believing the in the religious aspects, which is completely true. But all Budhdha's and buddhist scripture teach literal rebirth(life after death etc) and they also teach about the psychic powers of buddhahood and bodhisattavahood.

An enlightened being can go into samadhi and direct their will at any question or object and get whatever answer or insight there is.

There are many schools of buddhism for sure and sometimes there are few contradictions but I would say in general they are pretty much in harmony with each other.

If you are done with this discussion, you're welcome to not keep on going, but do you want me to write about the experiences I've had of clairvoyance from my teacher and advanced practioners or will you just think that I'm a stupid-flat earther because I claim to have witnesed some phenomena which are considered quite rare?

 

[marcusuk63]