I think that people that say they've recovered completely are a bit disingenuous

[Un-]

I'm referring to people that say they're completely clean or something.

I know it's a mean thing to say, but I can't help think it. I think that if you're severely depressed, suicidal, or mentally ill in some aspect, you CAN'T recover completely. You can get better, and you can learn healthy ways to cope with your shit-basket.. But I don't think it's.. Possible to get out of that bump, and never have (for example) suicidal thoughts ever again.

Like, people that I used to know who had PTSD.. Even when they were doing well, they were one step away from completely breaking down. So if you tell me that you were traumatised by something, and you're never affected by it at all because you pulled through.. I think it's being disingenuous.

I mean even drug addicts struggle with relapsing. Hell, I used to be addicted to self harm and every so often I get strong urges to destroy myself. I've gotten better, but I know I'm gonna deal with those urges until.. Forever, I guess..

So when people say they used to struggle with it, but are now completely fine.. I'll say it: maybe what you went through wasn't that severe.

I can't be this fucking.. Bitter in recovery. I know I can't. I know. But.. Sigh.

I'm not saying everyone THIS and everyone THAT. There's always exceptions.. It's just.

 

[Whistea]

So when people say they used to struggle with it, but are now completely fine.. I'll say it: maybe what you went through wasn't that severe.

You pretty much summed it up, I think the same way. There are varying degrees to this, which is why I struggle to take people seriously who want my pity or sympathy for what I perceive to be minor things, because I know they will be fine in a few days, weeks, months tops and forget all about it. If they had to suffer as much as me, I could recognize it, you can hardly hide it. Meanwhile I genuinely believe if the normal, average human had my life she or he would've killed himself a long time ago. Can I stop drinking too much alcohol and recover from that? Sure, maybe I can. A habit acquired can also be lost. But with that whole existential shit, I am just too far gone, man. I can lessen the symptoms, but I will always be fucked up.

 

[merlin2020]

Hey,

thank you for your thoughts about that.
I suffer from complexe posttraumatic disorder,it's often very hard,but i can feel what you are trying to say..
Maybe it is really not possible to heal from severe serious mental problems,but it's also true,in my experience,that some things are getting better.
Maybe it is not black or white,healing or not,maybe something inside can grow and heal,in spite of all the hurting and desperating things...
?

 

[Cathy Ames]

It's possible that you are thinking about this in too much of a black and white manner. I look forward to seeing what other people write in response to this, though.

 

[Un-]

Hey,

thank you for your thoughts about that.
I suffer from complexe posttraumatic disorder,it's often very hard,but i can feel what you are trying to say..
Maybe it is really not possible to heal from severe serious mental problems,but it's also true,in my experience,that some things are getting better.
Maybe it is not black or white,healing or not,maybe something inside can grow and heal,in spite of all the hurting and desperating things...
?

No no no. I wasn't saying it's impossible to heal. I wish my writing was clear. I suck at writing.. I'm sorry.

It's just.. I don't think it's entirely likely to heal COMPLETELY, with no scratches or bruises.

I'm sorry that you suffered from cPTSD. I really am. I hope that things are going swell with you.

It's possible that you are thinking about this in too much of a black and white manner. I look forward to seeing what other people write in response to this, though.

If two people have pointed out I think of this in monochrome, then chances are I do. Damn..

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I've had this thought too. That of course it's possible to recover, but things like depression are pretty cyclical in nature. To really say "hey guys, I'm all better now!" does seem a bit innocent.

 

[MellowAvenue]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really do think that once you've hit that point where you've seriously considered suicide as an option, to the point where you were actively trying to formulate a plan with intention to act on it then, even if you decided to seek help, you can never really fully recover. You can move past it, you may find happiness, but it'll always be there, in your mind, lingering and waiting to come back.

Mental health and physical health aren't as dissimilar as people think, the only difference is how they are treated. When you break your back, they can fix it but the damage was still done to it. You may return to something resembling normal, maybe even return to doing whatever it was that made you break it in the first place, but you're never quite the same again.

 

[noname223]

I am not sure about it. I don't know statistics.

Though in clinic some people told me the medication would have had a huge positive impact. I kind of envied when I started antidepressants. For me antipsychotics had a very good effect. However I have not fully recovered.

In clinics I have met people who told me that they were on the edge of suicide. And since they take medication they have not relapsed anymore and could fully recover.

Though I cannot say how the stories of these people continued.

I get what you want to express with the example of traumata. That it accompanies people. And it is never fully gone.
I don't know statistics about that.

Though I think even if people feel extremely horrible they can fully recover. I think you can fully recover from that. But if you are deeply traumatized and it happened very early in the development I think this is harder to overcome.

I sometimes read that mental illnesses and how they develop are hard to predict. For me the first therapist gave a very good prognosis and look at me now.

I read there are also similar examples in the opposite direction.

I don't have much expertise on it. I read for example that the personality is often formed till a certain age and then it is hard to change these traits. Though I don't know whether this is related to mental illness. Or if this is a completely different issue.

 

[WhiteRabbit]

I think it depends on why you were suicidal in the first place. If the reasons were highly situational, and that situation gets totally resolved, maybe you can fully recover and never think about killing yourself again. Some suicidal people can be helped with medication and might make a full recovery. But it seems like most chronically suicidal people have some sort of untreatable mental illness and/or shitty situations that will never resolve, so the suicidal thoughts never completely go away or if they do, they'll always come back eventually.

 

[Moonomyth]

It's hard for me to gauge other people's internal states at the best of times, so it's entirely possible somebody else experienced a recoverable depression. We know there are some that are brought on by transient physical states like post-partum depression, and those have good recovery outcomes compared to more long-term chronic depression. But all our measures for what constitutes recovery are subjective, and we know thanks to scrutiny by the carceral medical system, depressed people will deceive on outcome reports.

I think it's possible. Probably for other people. I have a harder time seeing it for myself.

 

[Un-]

I've had this thought too. That of course it's possible to recover, but things like depression are pretty cyclical in nature. To really say "hey guys, I'm all better now!" does seem a bit innocent.

But you sound like a dick if you mention it, obviously.. It's something that should be talked about, I guess.. For obvious reasons.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I really do think that once you've hit that point where you've seriously considered suicide as an option, to the point where you were actively trying to formulate a plan with intention to act on it then, even if you decided to seek help, you can never really fully recover. You can move past it, you may find happiness, but it'll always be there, in your mind, lingering and waiting to come back.

Mental health and physical health aren't as dissimilar as people think, the only difference is how they are treated. When you break your back, they can fix it but the damage was still done to it. You may return to something resembling normal, maybe even return to doing whatever it was that made you break it in the first place, but you're never quite the same again.

That's what I was trying but failing to say with my post.

I remember, some time ago, I was watching a YouTube channel about self harm. The person was talking about how they show their scars in public and shit.. Either way, they talked about how they have episodes of really wanting to self harm again. This is someone who is said to have recovered..

I think it depends on why you were suicidal in the first place. If the reasons were highly situational, and that situation gets totally resolved, maybe you can fully recover and never think about killing yourself again. Some suicidal people can be helped with medication and might make a full recovery. But it seems like most chronically suicidal people have some sort of untreatable mental illness and/or shitty situations that will never resolve, so the suicidal thoughts never completely go away or if they do, they'll always come back eventually.

I think it's that, and how severe it is.. I don't know how you can measure severity, but I can say that if I had the problems that some people have on this forum, I'd never recover. I have a higher chance of recovering as myself than as anyone else here. It's subjective.

But yeah, you're right. It just irks me, then, when people compare apples to oranges. They make inspiration stories with the umbrella term depression (for example), but really what they went through was vastly different in cause and severity than you. And this person managed to recover completely.. It just paints.. An unrealistic narrative.

It's hard for me to gauge other people's internal states at the best of times, so it's entirely possible somebody else experienced a recoverable depression. We know there are some that are brought on by transient physical states like post-partum depression, and those have good recovery outcomes compared to more long-term chronic depression. But all our measures for what constitutes recovery are subjective, and we know thanks to scrutiny by the carceral medical system, depressed people will deceive on outcome reports.

I think it's possible. Probably for other people. I have a harder time seeing it for myself.

Mhm precisely.

 

[Regen]

For me it is difficult to trust this sudden recovery too...

But I think this is maybe really possible in relation to the reason of your suicidal thoughts. The reasons can be very very different. This is why I am always hope that people first try much therapie, for some it helps really wonderful. And sometimes it has stupid reasons, physical things for example.

But yes, these one who struggle with deep problems and had this problems a long time and tried much there means recovery a harder way.

But in my life I have seen some girls who struggled really hard and after many years they found their way. I knew the girls from psych ward and after round about ten years :-( they had a good life and less problems. I would Not belief it if I would not seen it by myself.

Some did it. Some not. And at the beginning nobody know who is who. This is the reason why I always say try it. Maybe you are the lucky one. Death is waiting.

 

[Himalayan]

I am sure they care a lot about our opinion about their recovery.

 

[lachrymost]

I'm pretty sure this is how psychiatry views mental illness--conditions that can be managed and treated, but never cured. If someone thinks they're cured, a doctor would say they're in remission. (Correct me if I'm wrong.)

There are exceptions. Some have come out the other side. They "got over it" and died without ever falling back into it.

But anyone who believes themselves cured could relapse at any moment. And that is what I always think to myself when someone says they've been there, but they're good now. How long will they last?

 

[freedompass]

I'm referring to people that say they're completely clean or something.

I know it's a mean thing to say, but I can't help think it. I think that if you're severely depressed, suicidal, or mentally ill in some aspect, you CAN'T recover completely. You can get better, and you can learn healthy ways to cope with your shit-basket.. But I don't think it's.. Possible to get out of that bump, and never have (for example) suicidal thoughts ever again.

Like, people that I used to know who had PTSD.. Even when they were doing well, they were one step away from completely breaking down. So if you tell me that you were traumatised by something, and you're never affected by it at all because you pulled through.. I think it's being disingenuous.

I mean even drug addicts struggle with relapsing. Hell, I used to be addicted to self harm and every so often I get strong urges to destroy myself. I've gotten better, but I know I'm gonna deal with those urges until.. Forever, I guess..

So when people say they used to struggle with it, but are now completely fine.. I'll say it: maybe what you went through wasn't that severe.

I can't be this fucking.. Bitter in recovery. I know I can't. I know. But.. Sigh.

I'm not saying everyone THIS and everyone THAT. There's always exceptions.. It's just.

I think your reactions are completely understandable and not even bitter. It's bugged me since forever the stories you read, documentaries you watch, people you listen to in 12 step groups/whatever where the implication is that they saw the light, are saved and on the right path for good. Because these accounts seem like a veiled reproach to the rest of us who have simply learned to manage or tolerate our conditions and, for now, are doing ok (or not).

What is more. Those books that describe the 'hero's journey' of a struggle with mental illness or addiction, invariably followed by some kind of 'triumph' over the condition do not reflect the reality of living with mental or physical disabilities. But sadly it would seem…these stories sell. Giving 'neurotypicals' everywhere 'proof' if they want it that mental illness is a failure of nerve, moral failing or character flaw!

Rant over.

 

[Dead Ghost]

I'm a wreck, but I've refused to take medication for years because it didn't cure me and the people I knew were only relieved enough to be able to continue doing precisely the kind of life that had led them to that situation.

For me it is not important to have Asperger's, ADHD or vertigo. For me, what is important are the consequences that derive from a bad attitude on my part to face life's stumbling blocks: Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, social phobia, anger attacks, derealization, depression, suicidal idealization....

I am clear about what I have achieved so far without medication and that is to grow, to mature a lot as a person and in self-knowledge. But I have exposed myself too much to my illnesses and I have lost a lot in mental and physical stability.
Time will tell if it has been worth it because I feel that I am as close to CTB as I am to taking the step that will allow me to see things differently and to recover definitively... completely? no, does it matter? neither.

I really don't know where I'm going, but if I recover it will be difficult for me to fall again with all the resources I've learned. And if I don't recover, CTB is always welcome.

And I'm not addicted to the consequences of my mental states, I'd just miss it, hahahahaha.

//

Jo estic fet una merda, però ja fa anys que em nego a prendre medicació perquè no em curava i a la gent que cóneixia només l'alleujava prou per poder seguir fent precisament el tipus de vida que l'havía dut a aquella situació.

Per mi no és important tenir Asperger, TDAH o vertígen. Per mi l'important són les conseqüencies que s'en deriven d'una mala actitud per part meva per a fer front a les ensopegades o pedrades de la vida: Trastorn Obssessiu Compulsiu, trastorn d'ansietat Generalitzada, fóbia social, atacs d'ira, desrealització, depressió, idealització suïcida...

Tinc ben clar el que he aconseguit fins ara sense medicació i és créixer, madurar molt com a persona i en autoconeixement. Però m'he exposat massa a les meves malalties i he perdut moltíssim en estabilitat mental i físicament.
El temps dirà si m'ha valgut la pena perquè noto que estic tant a prop del CTB com de fer el pas que em permeti veure les coses d'una altra manera i recuperar-me definitivament.. del tot? no, importa? tampoc.

Realment no se on vaig, però si em recupero serà difícil que torni a caure amb tots els recursos que he aprés. I si no em recupero el CTB sempre serà benvingut.

I no sóc pas un adicte a les conseqüències dels meus estats mentals, només em faltaría, hahahaha.

 

[Celerity]

I agree, and I think accepting the limitations of recovery is an important step in getting better. I no longer hold out hope for a miracle therapy or medication or medical procedure that does not (and perhaps never will) exist. When realistic outcomes fall so far short of one's expectations, it is easy to get discouraged and give up completely.

The fact is, I have felt this way for so long that I would need a complete personality overhaul to be completely, permanently "recovered". At the risk of romanticizing mental illness, I would not be me any more without some shadow of this hanging over me. I can't even imagine what such a life would look like. If I try, I picture a stranger wearing my face.

 

[Wannagonow]

For the most part I agree with you. I think in part because after 30+ years I've yet to find myself "cured". But I know the world is not based on my experiences. If people are feeling they're "completely fine"- who am I to argue?

 

[przeciwwymiotne]

I'm referring to people that say they're completely clean or something.

I know it's a mean thing to say, but I can't help think it. I think that if you're severely depressed, suicidal, or mentally ill in some aspect, you CAN'T recover completely. You can get better, and you can learn healthy ways to cope with your shit-basket.. But I don't think it's.. Possible to get out of that bump, and never have (for example) suicidal thoughts ever again.

Like, people that I used to know who had PTSD.. Even when they were doing well, they were one step away from completely breaking down. So if you tell me that you were traumatised by something, and you're never affected by it at all because you pulled through.. I think it's being disingenuous.

I mean even drug addicts struggle with relapsing. Hell, I used to be addicted to self harm and every so often I get strong urges to destroy myself. I've gotten better, but I know I'm gonna deal with those urges until.. Forever, I guess..

So when people say they used to struggle with it, but are now completely fine.. I'll say it: maybe what you went through wasn't that severe.

I can't be this fucking.. Bitter in recovery. I know I can't. I know. But.. Sigh.

I'm not saying everyone THIS and everyone THAT. There's always exceptions.. It's just.

I agree. I used to set an impossible standard for recovery, essentially believing that everything can go back to normal. But everything we do/experience leaves marks on us. Change is possible, happy life is possible as well. But getting completely rid of the bad parts/experiences/addictions/tendencies? Never met anyone who has experienced something like that. You can feel amazing most of the time but the bad part will always come back. The goal is yo make it less frequent and less harmful. Love yourself, love yhe bad part as well. It's okay.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I do know what you mean. Still, I think we are all very capable of kidding ourselves and others. Perhaps it helps them to convince themselves that they are out of the woods and put on that kind of act (whether or not their feelings match) in front of other people. Perhaps they hope their feelings will catch up if they only act the part.

Sometimes I wonder if the 'normies' do this in regular life even! Like- are you REALLY that ok with your immensely stressful job and life or are you just putting on a brave face?

Of course- if they have truly fully recovered, I don't really know because it hasn't happened yet for me! Of course- I haven't tried that much to be fair... I'm a bit of an imposter in the 'Recovery' section! Sorry!

I guess I have two formerly suicidal friends. One is still very up and down and I don't think they would ever say they had 'recovered.' The other- from outward appearances at least seems to have turned things around. Still, I suspect they felt that way initially for far less time. It's difficult to say isn't it? But I think we all have these suspicions/judgements about people- we're only human and I doubt you start quizing and doubting the person on the spot- so I don't think you should feel guilty about it.

 

[gogoprince]

I'm not going to worry about if I might have a suicidal thought here, or there in future. Right now, I'd say, the thought has probably only occurred to me once or twice this week. That seemed absolutely impossible to me not more than two years ago when it was a daily, pressing "need" to kill myself that would pop in my head practically every waking hour of my life for years. I was sure that I was going to commit suicide at one point last year even. Not a lot of time has passed since then in the long term, but I'm really grateful for every moment of peace I have now.

My advice for you is don't get too attached to this idea that things are never gonna change: cause they always do. Not always for the best, of course. But you don't know where you'll be a year from now. If any aspect of recovery - mindfulness, meditation, socializing, anything that's helped you - has given you a moment of peace you didn't have before than you are already on the right path, I'm sure. Life will keep throwing you obstacles, but you can always learn from them. You also aren't broken. You're absolutely perfect the way you are.

 

[don't want it]

You need to change yourself to remove the pain