I simply don't understand the logic behind incels or femcels

[noname223]

Maybe it is similar why many people cannot understand suicidal people. It just does not seem logical for them.

But if you struggle to find a partner why would you choose an ideology which makes it way harder to find a partner? Hating a whole gender category and all people who fall into this category. It seems for me like self-destruction one o one. You make your chances voluntarily way harder to find a significant other. Maybe being an incel or femcel is not a free choice. This would be a valid argument.

But what or who do you hate more the ideology you believe in or the people who you should hate according to your ideology. I am not sure whether incels and femcels often struggle with self-hatred.

I don't think my thoughts are very sophisticated. I simply do not understand these people. There is also a race what is worse being a man or woman which seems weird to me.

Maybe many incels or femcels don't want partners? Is this the truth?

But I think if sex is the goal loathing women won't be helpful either. Except if you buy a woman who has to work under undignifying circumstances. Hating women would help in this instance.

But also femcels feel so weird to me. These would probably be the people who despise incels the most and they simply copied their ideology under a different branding. I read a thread here about awful men. I think I met many men in college who literally hated men themselves because of their toxic masculinity. Maybe you should be nuanced instead of generalizing all of us.

 

[jar-baby]

I don't think ideology in general feels like much of a choice to its adherents. Ideologues by definition are convinced that their normative views and perception of reality are the objectively correct ones, and incels are no different (hence the choice of the terms redpill/bluepill). Their wiki even links to numerous scientific studies that supposedly evidence the objective truth of their worldview*—one of the studies, for instance, concluded that most women are attracted to dark triad personalities. I'm sure a lack of romantic success and other personal factors are often what lead incels to adopt this worldview (like how having a difficult life could cause you to be a philosophical pessimist) but from their point of view, they're the ones seeing things the way they really are, so changing their minds would be thought of as self-delusion.

*said worldview being that "systemic and genetic factors" are solely responsible for men's romantic/sexual success

 

[derpyderpins]

One thing that always confuses me is whether being an "incel" automatically ties you to those hateful groups and boards. I thought at first incels were just lonely guys who didn't have any success with women. For someone older like me I think of being on /r/foreveralone in the early reddit days.

I think they slip to the bad ideology when they've reached immense frustration and hopelessness.

I do think modern dating has such unique challenges and when you are someone constantly failing the more impossible it seems. You do hear a lot about confidence for good reason. I don't know about the specific studies they're linking to, but if you're in a limited social circle and are seen as being passive, you can be basically doomed until you're able to branch out. It's a pattern of failure => less confidence => more failure.

Speaking from specifically the male perspective, it can be easy to end up on someone's hook and get used. Women who are good at playing the field definitely understand the balance of power in the modern dating scene. All these terms throughout the years, "foreveralone", "friendzone", "incel": the issue is that they've all had at least a bit of evidence and reason backing them up, but then some people - in their frustration - take it to extremes. Rather than offering compassion, society at large isolates them.

So, for example, if you get led on for weeks or months and suddenly it falls apart, you end up in this hopeless state and you look for support. (Has happened to me.) If you only half embrace the 'incel' ideology, people will associate you with the bad parts and push you away. Then these dark corners of the Internet feel like the only place that will accept you. I'm really grateful I met my fiance when I did, shortly after that bad experience, or I may have fallen into that hole.

So I understand your point about the hatred of the thing you want not being helpful, but in their desperation they're far past the point of being logical. They're at a point where they've basically given up.