S

Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
I have been married to the love of my life for 20 years. Not only are we life partners, we are coresearchers and collaborators. My entire career is based on work with them.

Three years ago, they began to get more aggressive with me as I became more depressed. I tried unsuccessfully to kill myself twice. I was diagnosed with diabetes, lost 25 kilos, went to therapy, got on meds, and — slowly — things started to get better, for me at any rate. My partner, however, continued to be more and more aggressive with me, even as I got better.

We came into some money and bought an apartment: our life's dream. It has taken a lot of work and money, but we have finally refurbished it. My partner has had massive professional success over the past few years and I have been doing OK myself. Materially, we are holding out own. And yet my partner is increasingly aggressive with me. It's almost as if my recovery over the past few years upsets them.

Since about this time last year, my partner has been more and more aggressive, taking every little problem and mistake to start a fight. In response, I have withdraw deeper into myself and now my partner feels I have abandoned them.

Over the last two days, my partner and I have had a series of fights in which they've politically attacked me as "privileged" and say that I do not support them because of their race and gender. They have never said this sort of thing in our 20 years together and it is exactly the sort of reductionist criticism we have aways pledged each other to avoid in our fights. When we started dating, decades ago, we both promised that we'd never play race or gender cards on each other, so that if one of us had a real criticism that might be rooted in racism or sexism it would be brought up AS SUCH, SPECIFICALLY and dealt with as such. There would be no "You don't understand me because you are X" stuff. No relationship can withstand that.

Now, they are upset with me because I have bought three months of necessary food supplies because I am afraid of inflation and shortages (we live in the developing world, so these are considerable). We have the space to store it and the money is not an issue (I have spent maybe 100 dollars so far in two months — the equivalent of 2% of our combined salaries). In fact, they just bought 40 crystal wine glasses, which take up far more storage space and money.

According to my partner, I am buying three months of basic staples because I was "privileged" and didn't grow up in poverty like them. The irony of this is that the last time things got this bad, I was an adult, living on my own, right here in this fucked up country, from paycheck to paycheck, while they still had all their basic needs covered by their parent. My doing the same things I did in that time — investing cash in a back up of basic staples — is, to them, a ridiculous mark of privilege. This, from someone who just spent 300 USD on wine and wine glasses!

I bring all this up just to show how the fight is not remotely about my privilege, or my racism, or my sexism. When I ask them what they want from me, they say "companionship". But then they do all they can to undermine that. And they are gaslighting me, bringing up my mental health issues from three years ago and saying that my worries about possibly needing basic staples are "crazy". My therapist, by the way, knows what I am doing and doesn't think it paranoia or exaggerated.

So last night, we finally had a night alone (my partner's parent lives with us and went to a party). I made them Chucru Garni and we had some wine. I stopped at three glasses: they downed two bottles. We started discussing again and they were very aggressive and cynical, saying I would support them more if they were a man and white. I asked what support they needed from me? They said, "We need to buy groceries tomorrow." I said, "Fine. I will hit the market." But then it moved on to a more general malaise that they have with me, their job, my life, their life.

The Roe vs. Wade decision didn't help, as well as our local election results. They became more and more cynical and cutting, not wanting to credit anything I said as sincere, whether it was praise, criticism, or simple observation. You know the kind of discussion: as old as time.

"My work is a fucking mess."

"I know. I want to help, but you don't want me too. You got upset when I said 'X might happen' and now it has. I don't want to say 'I told you so', but I DID try to tell you this wouldn't work and you got angry. Now here we are. What do we do?"

"So you're saying this is all my fault?"

"No. I am saying you put too much trust in one person and now they've screwed you. You have to recover somehow and I am not sure what you want me to do."

"If I were a man and white I wouldn't have this problem. People would respect me. You would respect me more."

"I respect you immensely. So much so that I have been hands off your project because you told me to stay away. You are widely respected by many, many people. And if you were white and a man, you might be more respected, yes. But you also might be one of these MAGA asshats who think their life sucks because of immigrants. Who knows? The fact is, you are well respected and successful as you are."

And it just went around and around from there.

Finally, without raising my voice, I said "This is going nowhere. I am going to take a bath and try to relax".

I went and put on music, drew a bath, got my third glass of wine. My partner came in and wanted to enter into the tub with me, as if we hadn't just been arguing for an hour. I say "OK", suspecting, however, that what they really wanted to do was continue to needle me. And, of course, that is exactly what they did, changing the music, turning on more lights, etc. When I changed the music back, they threw the speaker into the tub with me and stormed out screaming.

I shut and locked the bathroom door. They started destroying the apartment. Then they left and haven't come back. They destroyed my computer and laptop and ripped through the hallway, literally tearing wallpaper off the walls and breaking planters and pottery. Here's a view of some of the damage:

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Now I am home alone, trying to get the energy to start cleaning up. They are gone and have called no one: not me, not their mother, not their sister. I have two publishing deadlines due tomorrow as well.

I should divorce this person. I do not have the emotional resources to do so, nor the social support. I am tired. I have ordered sodium nitrite and antiemetics. If this is the end of this partnership, I really don't want to go on living. It's not even that I don't: it's just that I see no way to do so that will cost far many more spoons than I have or can possibly collect.

What should I do when and if I see them again? What should I say?
 
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Cathy Ames

Cathy Ames

Cautionary Tale
Mar 11, 2022
2,105
Oh my goodness. This is horrible what you are going through. I'm so sorry.
What should I do when and if I see them again? What should I say?
Have you two done any couples counseling since the change in their behavior and your attempts? I think this person needs some help (putting it mildly), and the two of you as a couple just haven't been working.

Can you leave and go stay in a hotel for a while (maybe indefinitely, including having your mail forwarded)? Can you call your therapist? Or a marriage counselor? Do you have a religious faith with a "minister" type person whom you both already know? Personally, I would advise against speaking to this person without having a "mediator" type person present with both of you. Even if you don't want to or "can't" divorce this person, I think it would be a good idea to talk to an attorney.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
Yes. They have talked with my therapist and the therapist wants us to both come in for a session. This may, in fact, be something that contributed to triggering this because, after all, I am the crazy one, neh?

I have been trying to talk to my therapist since the attack last night. No answer. Supposedly, my mother in law will come back to the apartment today. Since I am an immigrant, my family is a continent away.
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My laptop. My cell phone seems to have been taken or destroyed as well, although it might just be somewhere below the wreckage.
 
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hungry_ghost

hungry_ghost

جهاد
Feb 21, 2022
517
Oh hell no!

The nitpicking arguments is bad enough, but escalating to violence?

If the speaker was plugged up, they could have electrocuted you!

And to throw a tantrum and destroy your shit? No, no, no.

Dude, you need to file a police report and get a restraining order.

You shouldn't be confronting this person again, or saying anything to them, because they are clearly unstable.

Lawyer up, and start divorce proceedings.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
My mother-in-law is now here and suggesting I wait and see.

Yeah, I know I should divorce. And this is not the first time this has happened, although it is the first time she decided to verbally attack me the way she did.
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My cell phone is missing, too.
 
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rationaltake

rationaltake

I'm rocking it - in another universe
Sep 28, 2021
2,712
I think you may be right that your recovery might be upsetting them.

Could you at least take legal advice and see what options you have? I know it depends on which country you're in.

I understand it's devastating.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
The legal options really don't appeal to me. This person is not just my mate, they are my everything. I knew they could be bad tempered when we started dating. I went in with my eyes wide open. Now… I don't know. If they won't change, I may have to order some sodium nitrite. Luckily, both it and dopamine blocker anti-emtics are cheap and easy to find here. Wish I could get some N, though.
 
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Sweet Chainsaw

Sweet Chainsaw

Member
Dec 6, 2020
45
Dude, get the fuck out now!!
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
Well, I may. Just probably not through divorce.
 
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Rd2nowhere

Rd2nowhere

Silly Tulip is a color.
Jun 16, 2022
91
My heart goes out to you. I understand your reservations about a divorce however I am in the midst of a nasty one and it is nice to have his nuts in a vice.
 
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Sweet Chainsaw

Sweet Chainsaw

Member
Dec 6, 2020
45
I've shared this on other posts, but I'll do it here with links.

You should experiment with mind clearing tools to delete your negative emotions around your fucked up marriage.

- EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique or Tapping)
- The Sedona Method

You can find videos on these techniques on Youtube & websites.
They are free, super easy to learn and only takes a minute to apply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EFT

The Sedona Method
 
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whatevs

whatevs

Mining for copium in the weirdest places.
Jan 15, 2022
2,914
I'm sorry but that was batshit crazy. She is the one that is more disturbed of the two and shouldn't even dream of holding against you any mental problems. At least you don't go rampaging around the house like an actual lunatic. It even looks dangerous to you, she might be capable of assaulting you as well.

It does look like you need to divorce. This violent person has commited crimes against your property, it's up to you how to react to her violence. It's one thing to break ONE thing in an accidental fit of rage, but the deliberate destruction of valuables is very hostile and concerning. I would get the cops involved 100%.
 
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Cathy Ames

Cathy Ames

Cautionary Tale
Mar 11, 2022
2,105
Listen... a weird icky thing happens when you are with a certain kind of abusive person (which she might be that particular type). You lose your "self" and a lot of (maybe most of, or all of) your ability to take clear stock of your situation. PLEASE! Take some time and space away from this person before you make your decision to CTB. And keep trying to reach your therapist in the mean time. You need some support.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
I am seeing my therapist tomorrow, but I don't know that it will do much. The attitude I am hearing is that both of us are wrong to fight, which I agree with. But the problem is, I avoid the fights! Even hearing my spouse talk on speaker phone to her mom makes me anxious. I feel that they have decided they don't need me and, given that they know where all my buttons are, they've decided to push me as far as they can.

And they aren't wrong. I am seriously making plans for suicide. I have bought the antiemetics and am close to pulling the trigger on the SN. Just waiting for tomorrow's session with my therapist to see if I go ahead with that.

Here's what I am thinking of doing:

1) Buy some camping gear;

2) Take my bike and just head out for as long and as far as my money can take me;

3) Cut all ties, reporting on my trip here and on Reddit or FB, but reading no news, no comments, nothing;

4) Six months later, with no money, family, or job, read and respond to the comments for a week;

5) Find a comfortable place to take the SN.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
Welp. She messaged me today and is staying at a friend of hers: a feminist lawyer. She wants to meet in a neutral space to talk on Saturday.

I have pulled the trigger and ordered the sodium nitrite. It feels like I have crossed a bridge. Ever since my break down 3-4 years ago, I have scrupulously avoided anything deadly in the house because I know that if I have it in a crisis like this, I would use it. If I had nembutal, I would already be gone.

I feel that this is one of the few — scratch that: the only — place I can talk honestly about what I am feeling and my preparations. I feel I owe it to SS to document and describe them.

This community has been an enormous comfort for me over the past four years because it has given me two unbelievable valuable things:

1) The knowledge that I CAN take my life, painlessly, whenever I want to;

2) The knowledge of what methods to avoid.

Without SS, I would probably already be dead of something as stupid and horrible as a Tylenol overdose. SS taught me how hard it is to kill yourself and how easy it is to fuck it up, badly.

The third thing SS has given me is a place where I can talk about killing myself without scaring anyone or being sanctioned.

Because of all these reasons SS — together with my meds and my therapist — has given me four wonderful years. Perhaps some of the best of my life.

However, I am reaching the end of my spoons with this probable divorce.

If I had anything to really look forward to after the divorce, perhaps I could see my way through it. But, as I said, my career is inextricably tied up with that of my partner's. She can survive a split up. I fact, it will give her even more gravitas. We have often joked in the past that, given what we study, all she has to do is denounce me as an oppressor and her career will only improve. I do NOT believe she'd do that. She has way more ethics than that. But the fact of the matter is, she doesn't have to. All she has to do is remain silent and let people draw their own conclusions.

In any case, even in a perfect relationship, I am also out of spoons with my career. I am basically doing what I do to help her, my family, my colleagues, my students, and the people we work with. But far right governments, COVID, intentional vilification of our branch of science, and — finally — just getting old has almost completely guttered any remaining flame I have to work for work's sake. And, as my last two therapists have remarked, work has always been my salvation from crushing depression. It's hard to work, however, when you can't see it make any difference.

An example.

One of my grad students just had to skip town because his partner was murdered by local militia groups or drug gangs. I don't know if it's because of run-of-the-mill crime gone bad, or if it because our dear would-be dictator in chief is ramping up the stochastic terrorism pre-election. I had just had this kid in my class for the first time and they were one of the brightest lights of his cohort. Now they've run off in the night, back to his family. Will they ever start their studies again?

Other grad students of mine have had their own break downs. Deaths in the family. Lack of resources due to Covid. Almost zero support from the government as our universities have basically shut down. I can barely mentor them. One of the two grad departments I am in is eating itself alive and has also decided, apparently, that I — the outsider (not their branch of science but a contributing prof) — am one of the problems. They are moving to shift me out, which is fine by me (many of the younger people in the department are utter assholes), but in the process, they also seem to be taking it out on some of my mentees. Again, there's not much I can do here but if I were to die, perhaps that would help the kids get a few months more reprieve to finish their theses in a horrible state of affairs.

Anyhow, work not only seems to be useless, it would be BETTER for some folks if I wasn't doing it anymore. My partner, for one. Some of my students, for another.

In terms of health, I am only going to get worse.

My physical condition is degenerating, particularly my eyesight. I had an unrelated chronic illness under control for four years, but now it is escaping and the nerve damage seems to be accelerating. I also have some symptoms of prostate issues, which I have not gone in to check. They have been there for a year and seem to be getting worse, to the point where I seem to feel a constant pressure in my bowels.

In any case, I am already on eight different medications. Again, they gave me a new lease on life for awhile, but they are only going to increasingly lose their grip as the years go by. I am now thus at my physical best, as compared to the rest of my life, so if I am going to do something drastic — say, try to bike to Alaska — now would be the time to do it.

And then there is the world.

What can I say? I am sure you all have your feelings about this, too.

The hilarious thing is, because of what I study, I get almost non-stop aggression from all sides. The right, needless to say, considers me to be a communist parasite who is corrupting their god-given pure and patriotic way of life. The left considers me to be, ipso facto, an enemy of all that is good and someone who, at worst, must be cancelled and, at best, is just not needed. From my viewpoint, it seems the world is headed for a very bad civilizational crack-up — perhaps one as bad as that which took out the bronze age civilizations of the eastern Mediterranean. In fact, I will be very surprised if, by this time next year, someone hasn't tossed a nuke or a dirty bomb, somewhere. I think, in fact, it will occur before Christmas.

Then there's the march to fascism ongoing in the western democracies, particularly the U.S. The end of Roe vs. Wade means the Supreme Court has abdicated its role as a moderating function in U.S. politics. The fact that Trump has been able to plan and advocate for a coup while only becoming even more popular shows that all it will take is a slightly more intelligent authoritarian and the world's oldest constitutional democracy will become something like an ethnostate. Here, our president has brazenly gotten away with openly promoting genocide. Though he won't win the popular vote, he has all the military and police power he needs to keep him in office indefinitely. And my friends and students are already dying because of it.

What it may simply boil down to is that there are hardly any people living who remember WWII. Hitler and Stalin are now memes. Nuclear weapons look cool. Perhaps its just humanity's invred Thanatos coming to rise at a time of crisis, as it has so many times before. Today, however, we have a global civilization and once that craters, we very well may not be able to dig ourselves out of the resulting hole.

(And to think I was an anti-globalist in my youth. The problem with globalism is that once it has passed a certain limit, you CANNOT go back without causing the whole shebang to come down. As we are now learning.)

In any case, it seems pretty clear to me that the best years of the upcoming 100 are probably already gone.

During all of this, which has begun to consolidate around me since about 2014, I have become increasing anxious and panicked, resulting in my 2018 breakdown. I survived THAT through therapy and through trying to create a series of "Plan Bs" for my family, if worse came to worst. Only one of those plans more-or-less worked: get us into our own apartment and off rent. Now that this has come to fruition, my partner — who is dealing with her own demons — seems to have decided that she violently doesn't want to be around me.

Again, I am out of spoons. It feels and looks like everything I have done for the past four years has been so much twiddling of thumbs.

Now here's the real spooky thing: I really don't seem to care and this seems to be a side effect of the meds I am on.

When I started taking benzos for anxiety, I noticed that one of the possible side effects was increased suicidal ideation. I wondered about that. Now, I think I get why that might be the case.

To put it simply, my meds keep me from getting anxious and panicking. I woke up this morning, remembered what happened on Friday and what's likely to come, and … I. Just. Didn't. Care.

I mean, way deep down, I can feel butterfly flutterings in my stomach. The uttermost incipient beginnings of a panic attack. These increased a tiny bit when I pushed the button on buying the SN. But it's like there is a huge concrete weight on top of that, keeping everything on an even keel. I am going to get up from here, go to my office, integrate all the replacement equipment for the stuff my partner destroyed and maybe even work a little today. If I go, I want the place swept clean, you know? All my publications turned in. My classes over. Grades duly registered. And then, if I still feel how I feel today… then I will buy my camping gear, get my special debit cards, transfer my slush fund money into an internationally accessible account, grab my bike and simply go.

At that point, if it comes, I will update here daily and on FB or Reddit with a two week delay. I will watch no news and respond to no messages: just experience the world and report what I see. I'll do the reports with enough delay that no one can find me. I will occasionally take buses and maybe even planes to move myself rapidly and shift axes. But I will gradually bike to the ends of the earth.

There, I will find a comfortable spot, read a year's worth of news and messages. At that point, I will be penniless, jobless, and with my families well behind me. So absent some radically interesting change in the world's circumstances, I will be ready to take my SN.

See, this is the kind of thing you can think about and maybe even start to plan when you have decent meds keeping you relatively competent and active. I think of it as my "anti-school shooter manifesto" in the sense that, if you ever reach a point where anomié has taken your will to live and you feel there's no point in anything but you must do something, there are millions of creative and even beautiful ways for you to go. If you are already resolved to die, you might as well do something positive with your death.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
If I go forward with this, I will move it over to the suicide thread.
 
S

Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
I've shared this on other posts, but I'll do it here with links.

You should experiment with mind clearing tools to delete your negative emotions around your fucked up marriage.

- EFT (Emotional Freedom Technique or Tapping)
- The Sedona Method

You can find videos on these techniques on Youtube & websites.
They are free, super easy to learn and only takes a minute to apply.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

EFT

The Sedona Method
I just checked out Rational Wiki re: The Sedona Method. Er…. Thanks, but no thanks. Looks like dodgy, maybe even culty, woo to me. Not as bad as Scientology, but a hood way to lose money through the power of positive thinking.


I'm an empiricist and a historical materialist. The stuff I am depressed about in the world (outside of my relationship with my partner) isn't likely to go away by me "releasing" it. Although I agree: I could just shove my head up my ass and ignore it all. Frankly, though? I'd rather die than suck up resources on a dying planet for another thirty or so years if I'm not going to do anything useful with my life but "feel good about myself".
 
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Sweet Chainsaw

Sweet Chainsaw

Member
Dec 6, 2020
45
I just checked out Rational Wiki re: The Sedona Method. Er…. Thanks, but no thanks. Looks like dodgy, maybe even culty, woo to me. Not as bad as Scientology, but a hood way to lose money through the power of positive thinking.


I'm an empiricist and a historical materialist. The stuff I am depressed about in the world (outside of my relationship with my partner) isn't likely to go away by me "releasing" it. Although I agree: I could just shove my head up my ass and ignore it all. Frankly, though? I'd rather die than suck up resources on a dying planet for another thirty or so years if I'm not going to do anything useful with my life but "feel good about myself".
Whatever works for you man.
I'm not a feel good woo-woo irrational dodgy culty positive thinking fuckhead.
I gain nothing from you using or not using these techniques.
I shared these techniques because this is "RECOVERY" section of SS.

If you are really in pain, you try every fucking option available to get the fuck out.
If rational failed, you try irrational.
If irrational failed, you try rational.

In my case, my goddamn ego has not only created my fucked up life, but it has concluded that CTB is the only option.
Since I can't CTB at least until my beloved cats pass away (one of them can't walk now), I had to go dig into every non-ego options available.

These techniques may seem dodgy at first, but they work.
You can skip Sedona Method, but you should at least give a round of EFT a try.
Results will speak for itself.
It only take a minute to complete a round of EFT.

You need to bypass your conscious rational mind which has created your fucked up situation to begin with.
Never mind your "empiricist" and "historical materialist" self-identities.
Your ego takes great pride with these labels, but look at the results it has delivered.

I only suggested you to clear up emotions so that you can take whatever action you need to take to deal with the situation.
I never stated that things will magically resolve instantly with tools like these.

P.S. I'm only writing this for others who may read through this thread.
 
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Arrow

Arrow

Rewrite
May 1, 2020
769
my partner and I have had a series of fights in which they've politically attacked me as "privileged" and say that I do not support them because of their race and gender.
this alone would be enough to say fuck this person forever and just not ever speak to them again. their behavior overall is not acceptable, anyone willing to treat you like this isn't worth your time.
 
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Niko66

Niko66

Specialist
Dec 6, 2021
352
Your choice is of course yours alone but this seems like an immensely distressing and difficult situation.
As someone else mentioned I would personally advise you to gain a bit of distance from the relationship before going through with anything, maybe you don't have anything to look forward after a break up or divorce however this is such a painful situation that is so integral to your current life that I'd dare say there's truly no way to know how you will feel and be doing after the worst of the storm has passed.

To put it in a simple analogy, it'd be like commiting suicide because your legs are broken and the pain is unbearable, the healing process would be extremely difficult too, but currently you are a the very peak of pain of your situation. After you have had time and space to heal things will inevitably be different, if that different is any good well I don't know but just in my opinion it might be worth sticking through the process longer to find out.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
Whatever works for you man.
I'm not a feel good woo-woo irrational dodgy culty positive thinking fuckhead.
I gain nothing from you using or not using these techniques.
I shared these techniques because this is "RECOVERY" section of SS.

If you are really in pain, you try every fucking option available to get the fuck out.
If rational failed, you try irrational.
If irrational failed, you try rational.

In my case, my goddamn ego has not only created my fucked up life, but it has concluded that CTB is the only option.
Since I can't CTB at least until my beloved cats pass away (one of them can't walk now), I had to go dig into every non-ego options available.

These techniques may seem dodgy at first, but they work.
You can skip Sedona Method, but you should at least give a round of EFT a try.
Results will speak for itself.
It only take a minute to complete a round of EFT.

You need to bypass your conscious rational mind which has created your fucked up situation to begin with.
Never mind your "empiricist" and "historical materialist" self-identities.
Your ego takes great pride with these labels, but look at the results it has delivered.

I only suggested you to clear up emotions so that you can take whatever action you need to take to deal with the situation.
I never stated that things will magically resolve instantly with tools like these.

P.S. I'm only writing this for others who may read through this thread.
You can't imagine how much the words "your conscious rational mind has created your fucked up situation" irritate me.

No, actually. If I were being irrational and letting my id take control, I'd almost certainly be in more trouble than I am now. My ego isn't proud of labels, either: those just happen to be the two that best describe me.

Here's what Rationawiki says about EFT: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Emotional_Freedom_Technique

If I am going to do therapy (and I am already doing it), it's going to be therapy with some decent peer-reviewed results behind it. That ain't Sedona or EFT. I don't have enough energy or money to invest in placebos. Sorry. Not trying to yuck on your yum, but being in this mess for years has taught me how many grifters are out there preying on desperate people (not talking about you here, but about the folks who sell Sedona and EFT stuff and other such "therapies").


Your choice is of course yours alone but this seems like an immensely distressing and difficult situation.
As someone else mentioned I would personally advise you to gain a bit of distance from the relationship before going through with anything, maybe you don't have anything to look forward after a break up or divorce however this is such a painful situation that is so integral to your current life that I'd dare say there's truly no way to know how you will feel and be doing after the worst of the storm has passed.

To put it in a simple analogy, it'd be like commiting suicide because your legs are broken and the pain is unbearable, the healing process would be extremely difficult too, but currently you are a the very peak of pain of your situation. After you have had time and space to heal things will inevitably be different, if that different is any good well I don't know but just in my opinion it might be worth sticking through the process longer to find out.
Agreed, which is why I am doing nothing now except gather the resources necessary for suicide if I decide to go that route.

One of the things that has got me through the last five years has been the mantra "You can always kill yourself tomorrow". There is no rush.
 
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noaccount

Enlightened
Oct 26, 2019
1,099
Hey Steve - I hear you about the fascism. Fake ass democracy.
Especially sorry that you're facing bullshit from a therapist like "oh just avoid fights somehow, when that's impossible, or else you're equally wrong." Unfortunately mainstream psychology and psychiatry function to erase and paper-over a lot of abusive dynamics, pretty root-and-branch as part of their structure. If I can share a couple of quotes from the book "Why Does He Do That" about domestic violence, they seem relevant here:

"Once abuse was denied [by psychologists], the stage was set for some psychologists to take the view that any violent or sexually exploitative behaviors that couldn't be denied - because they were simply too obvious - should be considered mutually caused. Psychological literature is thus full of descriptions of young children who "seduce" adults into sexual encounters, and of women whose "provocative" behavior causes men to become violent or sexually assaultive toward them. I wish I could say that these theories have long since lost their influence, but I can't. A psychologist who is currently one of the most influential professionals nationally in the field of custody disputes writes that women provoke men's violence by "resisting their control" or by "attempting to leave." The Freudian legacy thus remains strong.

Hoping to find that the mental health field was changing for the better, I recently reviewed the current catalogues for various graduate professional training programs in clinical and counseling psychology, including those from programs considered to be on the cutting edge. I was unable not only to locate a single course on any form of abuse, whether toward partners or children, but to locate any reference to abuse in the descriptions of courses on any other subject. I proceeded to call one of the schools that trains clinical psychologists and asked whether they ever offer any classes on abuse, and was told: "Well, if there is a particular interest in that subject among the students, they sometimes organize a student-led seminar."

The influence of the history of psychological thinking remains particularly potent in the field of custody evaluation, where mental health professionals routinely ignore or minimize allegations of partner abuse and child abuse, assume that women are hysterical and vindictive, and treat all problems as mutual in origin."



Basically, there are psychologists and others out there who are equipped to recognize and name abusive dynamics, hold people accountable for violent and controlling behavior, and be allies to people going through it - but they are in the minority, while the majority tragically treat people's feelings about problems *as* the problem. (That's part of what they're trained to do, to pathologize people who don't fit in as good wage-workers as adults or accept the authority of schools as children.)

 
Supersadmommy90

Supersadmommy90

Student
Sep 24, 2019
186
I'm also in the middle of a nasty breakup with someone I would have remained with if their personality problems weren't as significant as they are. Forgiving the odd mishap, bad mood, or bickering is part and parcel to any relationship but I'm ready to admit that what I've dealt with exceeds what any normal person would tolerate. 10 years and 3 kids later I've figure this out. An utter disappointment and failure on my part. An embarrassment that I was so devoted. Really makes me want to leave this area and never come back (instead of ctb) but something similarly dramatic now has to happen I feel.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
Hey Steve - I hear you about the fascism. Fake ass democracy.
Especially sorry that you're facing bullshit from a therapist like "oh just avoid fights somehow, when that's impossible, or else you're equally wrong." Unfortunately mainstream psychology and psychiatry function to erase and paper-over a lot of abusive dynamics, pretty root-and-branch as part of their structure. If I can share a couple of quotes from the book "Why Does He Do That" about domestic violence, they seem relevant here:



Basically, there are psychologists and others out there who are equipped to recognize and name abusive dynamics, hold people accountable for violent and controlling behavior, and be allies to people going through it - but they are in the minority, while the majority tragically treat people's feelings about problems *as* the problem. (That's part of what they're trained to do, to pathologize people who don't fit in as good wage-workers as adults or accept the authority of schools as children.)
To give my therapist their due, when I told them my partner threw a speaker into the bathtub with me, they recognized that as completely unacceptable behavior.
I'm also in the middle of a nasty breakup with someone I would have remained with if their personality problems weren't as significant as they are. Forgiving the odd mishap, bad mood, or bickering is part and parcel to any relationship but I'm ready to admit that what I've dealt with exceeds what any normal person would tolerate. 10 years and 3 kids later I've figure this out. An utter disappointment and failure on my part. An embarrassment that I was so devoted. Really makes me want to leave this area and never come back (instead of ctb) but something similarly dramatic now has to happen I feel.
Yeah, I get what you are saying. However, I also can't help but feel that my partner could say the same thing about me. I am certainly not the easiest person to live with and the depression and suicide issues I have been dealing with over the past five years have been rough on them.

But here's the catch: I am in therapy, taking meds, and doing so much self care that I managed to lose 25 kilos. They are kinda sorta talking to a therapist.
 
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Steve Vermont

Member
Feb 27, 2020
65
My SN and anti-emetics have arrived. Tomorrow I meet with my partner. And we'll see.
 
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Tesha

Tesha

Life too shall pass
May 31, 2020
900
Trying not to be too nosey, but what age is your partner?

Could her change of emotions / mood / outbursts be linked to the menopause? I'm not trying to make excuses for her piss poor treatment of you, that is definitely unacceptable, but I'm trying to see if there could be a treatable cause.
 
N

noaccount

Enlightened
Oct 26, 2019
1,099
Steve I'm so sorry this is happening. I don't want to tell you what to do, I just want to ask is it worth seeing if life might be less-awful in some ways if you do wind up divorced and not living with someone who's abusing you?
 
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Lost Magic

Lost Magic

Illuminated
May 5, 2020
3,045
My heartbreaks for you man. I know you are doing everything in your power to do what you feel is right. It can't be easy being in an abusive relationship like that. See if you can resolve matters in a way that works best for all parties and maybe take a break from it all. You need to find a place to think and get some rest. Best wishes to you.
 
Grav

Grav

Wizard
Jul 26, 2020
660
This sucks but it sounds like your therapist isn't ignoring you which is better than some people post about their situations.

As an aside: I see the phrase "running out of spoons", I've never heard that before and am curious how it came about?
 

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