I just want to Escape! (Personal beliefs and theories about reincarnation, afterlives, etc.)

[KillingPain267]

According to your interpretation, would someone like Hitler be in the same league (and deserving the same punishment) as someone who wasn't a believer, didn't believe in God/Jesus but otherwise was a decently moral person in everyday life? Just curious

No, there are degrees of punishment (maybe that's the duration of the divine execution or the intensity, but never eternal conscious torture like the traditionalist view says). But first of all, there are no fundamentally "decently moral persons", since everyone is inherently sinful, selfish and has committed sins and hatred/indifference toward their neighbor. It's like those ctb preventionists saving someone during an attempt, they may outwardly appear to be decently moral persons but all they do is decide to control the attempter and possibly leaving them with injuries instead. But outwardly the preventionist can go around claiming to be a hero and selfishly receive praise and not even care about how you are years after the attempt. So everyone deserves be judged and perish forever because everyone is fundamentally motivated by selfishness and thus committed sins of indifference/neglect towards his neighbor at least some times). The only chance at avoiding the "second death" is to be forgiven of sins (everything from lying, stealing, lending on usury, blasphemy, to murder and indifference towards the sick and poor, exploitation, cruelty, domination etc.; it's like a spectrum from mild to severe yet we're all on the spectrum so to speak). This is where faith/belief comes in: the only chance to escape the spectrum entirely and be forgiven of sins is by truly admitting to not being a "morally decent person" and trusting the savior Jesus and that he died for our sins and rose again (that's the whole point of him doing that).

 

[Exitwings]

Did I scare everyone away with yelling "I want to go home" lol
(/joking)

I'm aware threads fall a few pages and then die, I'm just bumping.

 

[CantDoIt]

Hey, I really like the casual approach you're taking here! As someone who also wants to ctb, it makes me personally feel more at ease to read your notes here and how you sound positive and hopeful towards what happens when we cross to the other side.

I love your theories. Setting yourself up in a pre-determined universe sounds amazing - I wonder if I should come up with something like that when I'm about to do it! :) I think reincarnation is what I'm leaning towards now as the most likely, but pre-determined universe is also amazing and objectively better.

Another one I really like for me personally is getting to relive this current life with some knowledge and intuition of what will happen later. That way, I can direct this life's path much more effectively. I personally do have a lot of mental disorders and there are also a lot of decisions and things I've done / said that I'm not proud of whatsoever. Given the chance, I would act differently. However, I also think this life and this planet / society isn't particularly good. I would take it, but fml just a little bit (not too much), lol!

I actually though the punishment simulation might be happening to me. It's like every decision I've made up to this point has been carefully formulated to make my life worse, it's crazy. It's bad enough that I'm done. However, I didn't really think of it as a "serious" punishment simulation. I kept having this thought that someone in the afterlife wanted to teach me a difficult lesson about making the correct decisions and considerations, and not taking things for granted, treating people and myself well, and these kinds of things. However, I never really thought of it as malicious. It was almost, to me, like "someone out there cares about you / your soul, stop making stupid decisions, stop acting like that, look what happens when you do that, etc," haha.

I never really thought that what comes after would be actively malicious or harmful.

 

[Kali_Yuga13]

Another one I really like for me personally is getting to relive this current life with some knowledge and intuition of what will happen later. That way, I can direct this life's path much more effectively.

This is a very desirable scenario for me too. I would like to overwrite my life with better decisions and outcomes and have better foresight and intuition like you said.

 

[Exitwings]

I wanna expand on my ideas of what "Heaven" might be like/what I hope it's like.

As I've said, the only fictional examples I can think of are The Good Place (at the end of the show) and Heaven as shown in the webcomic Housepets, though these both are just vaguely reminiscent.

First of all, Entry:

I think if there's a "Heaven" for This Universe then everyone and everything automatically goes there.
"But what about bad people?" Don't care, doesn't matter. It's a cosmic roach motel, remember? It's not a reward.
No tests, no points, no judgments. No bullshit "the good half of your soul goes to Heaven and the bad half goes to Pandemonium[/Hell]" like in Housepets. I can't even go into all the reasons that would be morally and practically very wrong, and again it doesn't matter in this context.
"But it wouldn't be Heaven for me if so-and-so are there!" Then you'll never encounter them. They'll be on your block list.

How it would work:

There would be both public and private locations, and every individual would have their own personal mini-Heaven in addition.

Also basically I think everyone would have to have their own personal reality/be experiencing it subjectively. Like, imagine it as an MMO, every player has their own client-side perception. That's how you can 'block' people and such.

Obviously we're not in meat-bodies, so:
- can have whatever form/shape/body
- no pain or hunger or thirst etc (unless you want)
- can't hurt or even touch someone unless they allow it

And now that I've gotten the basics out of the way, here's what I personally want in "Heaven":
- Ability to make NPCs with various levels of autonomy, if only in my mini-Heaven.¹
- Access to every piece of media that ever existed.
- Can have new media created for you on request, no matter how impossible. Oh, you want more books from an author that died (and I guess didn't continue writing in Heaven)? Sure, here ya go. You want to see this fanfic as a film with all the correct actors and/or voices? You want to read all of the Stephen King books written in the style of Douglas Adams? No problem.

¹There's a possible problem here, since consciousness creates/is a soul, therefore a fully autonomous person would be an additional soul unto itself? Idk. Maybe they'd be a perfect facsimile without 'actual' consciousness.

 

[PhDone]

^_^; thanks

I'm not sure what you mean by "not ready" because I'm "still able to mull things over"?

I believe I'm ready mentally and emotionally (and I suppose "spiritually", assuming that refers to all the metaphysical stuff I've been talking about) to leave Here. Unfortunately the practical physical deactivation is, as I've said, really goddamn difficult. Feel free to check my posting history for more context of how I've been trying to find a method for... I think a year and a half now? I gave up on this universe/version of Earth then, mostly because I gave up on trying to find a surgeon who will fix the cause of my chronic illness, (and partially because I finally figured out what my destination universe looks like, what Home looks like.)

Oh, perhaps I should have given the context in that quick intro bit in the first post: I'm not depressed. I've made the (unfortunately rational) decision to CTB because my circumstances are very bad with no more hope in sight. I'm in constant full body pain, had to put my transition on hold, can't do any of my hobbies anymore, and the symptoms are and have always been progressive. I'm not suicidal because of any mental illness – it's Shit Life Syndrome, unfortunately.

edit:
(Not directed at previous poster)
I can't emphasize it enough I want to go HOME!!!

I am with you so fully. I cannot live how my illness is confining me. Life is near impossible like this and I have no options that dont lead to further trauma and anguish. So I am done. I hate that this is so. But there is no option for living with a incurable illness. Its a dead-end, suffer or ctb.

I want home, peace and love now. Thats all.

Thanks for your post. I'm going to read what you've been exploring for ctb. I hope you find a way home soon.

 

[CantDoIt]

Out of curiosity, where did your intuition about the afterlife arise from? What was the cause of your confidence?
I really like your proposals here and would like to feel more at ease myself.

 

[Exitwings]

Out of curiosity, where did your intuition about the afterlife arise from? What was the cause of your confidence?
I really like your proposals here and would like to feel more at ease myself.

I'm sorry, I'm not totally sure what you mean? I don't think I'm very confident, everything I've said I've put a disclaimer that I'm speculating...?

To try to answer your question: I have "past life memories"

the subculture I mentioned has had many many discussions and insights, both personal sharing and skeptical, about the nature of how "human" brains make memories,

— I'm aware that these might not be "true", but they could be.
And the way they go, involves multiverse hopping.

But really everything I've said is guesswork, hypotheses, hopes, and speculation. The framework makes sense to me, but I don't think I could explain why, it just does?

If you could elaborate or make your question more specifically worded I might be able to add more ^_^;

 

[CantDoIt]

I'm sorry, I'm not totally sure what you mean? I don't think I'm very confident, everything I've said I've put a disclaimer that I'm speculating...?

To try to answer your question: I have "past life memories"

— I'm aware that these might not be "true", but they could be.
And the way they go, involves multiverse hopping.

But really everything I've said is guesswork, hypotheses, hopes, and speculation. The framework makes sense to me, but I don't think I could explain why, it just does?

If you could elaborate or make your question more specifically worded I might be able to add more ^_^;

Apologies, I think its the way you phrased it somehow just sounded somewhat upbeat and although you mentioned it being speculative you had a clear idea somewhere that there were certain theories you just didn't feel could be true. I mistook that for confidence I think.

I don't really have any specific questions, I think it's more like, everyone here is usually very gloomy and resigned but your theoretical framework felt like "confidence" in a way. A little difficult for me to explain where I was going with it as well, haha.

 

[Exitwings]

Apologies, I think its the way you phrased it somehow just sounded somewhat upbeat and although you mentioned it being speculative you had a clear idea somewhere that there were certain theories you just didn't feel could be true. I mistook that for confidence I think.

I don't really have any specific questions, I think it's more like, everyone here is usually very gloomy and resigned but your theoretical framework felt like "confidence" in a way. A little difficult for me to explain where I was going with it as well, haha.

Oh yeah no worries. I'm just like that lol.

 

[PhDone]

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

I know this is an oldish thread, but just thinking about #8. I struggle with the concept of not having finished our sentence, coz I feel it was totally possible not to have fallen into my suffering trap. A single major decision, and several less major, taken a different way would have given me a v different outcome. So I dont feel there is a set sentence. I think I took a stupid decision and didnt listen to my gut. Path A was always what was meant for me, so much aligned for it to open up. Path B is what I took and it clearly turned dark and overgrown 100m in. Never should have been on it. So then ctb? I doubt there would be a forced remaining here situation.

Just pondering.

 

[divinemistress36]

I think we are in a simulation to. If my soul chose to come here for "lessons" then my higher self is a dumbass

 

[CatLvr]

I think we are in a simulation to. If my soul chose to come here for "lessons" then my higher self is a dumbass

I often tell a friend of mine that if "coming back" is a way to make amends and learn from your mistakes and become a better person then I must have been a horrible person in another life.

 

[heyismeman]

Idk but I know for a fact I was never dead, this is a feeling that's impossible to shake, in some way or another I was around which kinda sucks

 

[divinemistress36]

I often tell a friend of mine that if "coming back" is a way to make amends and learn from your mistakes and become a better person then I must have been a horrible person in another life.

I had an interesting reading the other day. My other lives I was emotionally, physically strong and this life I wanted to know what its like to be fragile and have no control for "soul" growth. Not sure I totally believe that but if I did then Im retarded

 

[heyismeman]

I think comciousness is forever in one way or another

- were all fractions of consciousness, each of us is part of a greater whole in a sense God, it's possible after we die we momentarily return to the "whole" then fracture again, maybe it's boring being all knowing or whatever.

 

[CatLvr]

I had an interesting reading the other day. My other lives I was emotionally, physically strong and this life I wanted to know what its like to be fragile and have no control for "soul" growth. Not sure I totally believe that but if I did then Im retarded

OMGoodness!! That sounds SO much like something I would do. "Let me try this out -- just to see what it's like. What can go wrong??" And I'm with you -- you are REALLY articulate. And kind. I've always been told that we have 2 sides and "repeat visits" are the universes way of teaching our spirit balance. If THAT is true, I was a HORRIBLY horrible person in at least one other life. But then I have a hard time reconciling this with the REALLY good people in the world being THAT evil in another realm -- like the Dali Lama, Mother Theresa, or Gandhi.

 

[PhDone]

I know this is an oldish thread, but just thinking about #8. I struggle with the concept of not having finished our sentence, coz I feel it was totally possible not to have fallen into my suffering trap. A single major decision, and several less major, taken a different way would have given me a v different outcome. So I dont feel there is a set sentence. I think I took a stupid decision and didnt listen to my gut. Path A was always what was meant for me, so much aligned for it to open up. Path B is what I took and it clearly turned dark and overgrown 100m in. Never should have been on it. So then ctb? I doubt there would be a forced remaining here situation.

Just pondering.

That is 100% my experience, path A i know was 'the' path. I stupidly chose path B and ended up sick and in hell. Life was in no way predestined.

I had an interesting reading the other day. My other lives I was emotionally, physically strong and this life I wanted to know what its like to be fragile and have no control for "soul" growth. Not sure I totally believe that but if I did then Im retarded

Super interesting!!!
Whatever our reason for return is I just hope we can let go the fuck ups of any lifetime, coz man did I fuck this one up

 

[Skylar6]

I can make a thread just to prattle on in, right? There's so much I want to talk about wrt deactivating the meatsuit and multiverse and metaphysical shenanigans, and unfortunately I can't talk about much of it within my subculture community that would be interested and understand a lot of it because, well, I can't elude to the fact that I'm planning on leaving. They'd just freak out.

I also don't want to make it too obvious who I am, on the off chance that somehow someone would actually figure that out and... honestly idk what would happen, why were you at the devil's sacrament, etc. But still. (Not trying to say I'm well known or anything lol, just, you know, I'm constantly online and an open book and have talked a lot about myself in many places.)

Anyway quick introduction so you don't gotta go through my post history:

• I'm chronically ill, in severe chronic pain among other low quality of life symptoms. It's progressive and surgeons could fix it but they don't wanna.
• My dysphoria is so so bad. Not just gender. So not only does the body feel awful and not work but I hate it. (Note: I do my best to take care of the body, because my priority at all times is to feel less awful). It's like body horror. I have no wings and I must fly.
• I don't "want to die", I just need out of this flesh prison at least, if not this specific universe too. The plan to CTB and the following are not a leap of faith, but a hop of desperation. (Imagine I'm on a slowly, inconsistently crumbling cliff and everything forward is shrouded in fog, and there's wolves prowling at my tail.)

I'm a Somethingist, meaning I feel like there must be more than the mundane that we can perceive and prove. After all, human perception is very limited. I have a hypothesis that's a framework that makes sense to me, but I don't "believe" it's the "truth". (Also, I don't think everyone's realities have to be the same. So this framework might be True for me, but not others. How? I don't know, it's too complicated for me to really get, but I think it's possible.)

Disclaimer: I don't care if I'm "crazy" or whatever.

═════════════════════════

I figure the possibilities of what will happen once I'm free of this meatsuit are: (No particular order)

1. Nothing. Oblivion. Consciousness is a quirk of biology and once the biology ceases so does the person.

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: *shrug emoticon* fine, it's not like I have better options and it's not like I'll ever know.

2. "Heaven" or equivalent perfect/paradise afterlife. Simulation of Goals, with a ton of additional positive "impossible" features and removal of unnecessary struggles and negatives (like capitalism).

• Personal belief of probability: 50/50. I think it's possible The Powers That Be might want to keep souls contained so we don't wander and complicate things, and that the best trap for that is someplace we won't want to leave.
• How I feel about it: Acceptable. Second best option. I'm simply not in a place mentally or emotionally or whatever where it matters if it's "real" or not. It'd be infinitely preferable to my current hell. Maybe in two hundred years I'll have an existential crisis or whatever.

3. Wishes Granted immediately: waking up in my destination universe with new life already set up.

• Personal belief of probability: very unlikely. Would require a Higher Being to Do without my interference (beyond Hoping and Praying and Yelling In My Head in an attempt to communicate.)
• How I feel about it: Absolute best case scenario.

4. Natural Reincarnation in random universe.

• Personal belief of probability: very likely.
• How I feel about it: >:[ please no. I'll take it but worst of the fine I'll take it options.

5. Awareness while Outside Universes. Will have to Do Things to reach Goals.

• Personal belief of probability: Waking up Outside Universes: Somewhat likely. (My current hypothesis of my history is that I'm a glitched soul who is Aware and Somewhat Autonomous while not incarnated.) Being able to Do Anything to Reach Goals: unlikely. (I'm still only a tiny 3 dimensional soul with zero power.)
• How I feel about it: kinda exhausted ngl but I'm kinda expecting it and I'll figure it out from there, as I don't know anything about it right now here.

6. "Hell"/Punishment Afterlife.

• Personal belief of probability: Extremely unlikely. I just can't imagine The Powers That Be / Higher Dimensional Beings / "gods" would be *that* cruel for no damn reason. At worst I assume they're neutral/amoral/don't care.
• How I feel about it: Obviously I hate it. But I find the idea impossible so.

7. This Life was a simulation and I wake up Outside/in the "Real World".

• Personal belief of probability: unlikely.
• How I feel about it: idk lol.

8. This Life was a Punishment simulation and I wake up Outside/in "Hell"/etc.

• Personal belief of probability: between 50/50 and unlikely. This Life has been a very weird balance of extremely unlucky but also lucky enough to be alive and not homeless, so sometimes it seems like Someone could be controlling things to keep me suffering.
• How I feel about it: Bad. Afraid. If I manage to escape the simulation then I haven't actually finished my sentence or whatever. But also in this scenario I believe that escaping the simulation would be impossible anyway, "They" just wouldn't allow it.

9. IDK/OTHER

〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰〰

So basically I'm going to find a way to deactivate and untether from this body (which is difficult goddamn). I'm hoping for option 3 (Wishes Granted) or 2 ("Heaven"). I'm mentally prepared for 5 (Bug Scurrying inside the Hardware of The Matrix).
As I can't really prepare for any of these options, for now I'm just Visualizing and making myself Believe, whole-heartedly, that I Will Wake Up Home. I don't really know anything else I can do. Conviction is probably all I can take with me. If I point my nose homeward and get ready to fly, maybe I'll get there.

Thanks for reading/letting me talk.

[editing reasons at the moment are for formatting.]

I don't believe in any of the formal religions of the world, for too many reasons to list here. However, there are theories to suggest that consciousness may be a fundamental property of the universe, due to an all-pervading quantum field. This appeals to me. Bits of consciousness break off and live a mortal life (I'd love to know why my bit did that, as it seems like a bad idea right now.) Anyway, after our bodies die, our consciousness becomes whole again with the rest of the field. Its like raindrops falling back onto the ocean. So what about heaven and hell and judgement? Well if you are part of the collective whole you will be able to experience everything you did (good and bad) from everyone else's point of view. You can be your own judge. And those that went before, they will be there too. I'm looking forward to meeting some of my dearly departed cats again. Hopefully I will find out soon one way or the other. And if it turns out there is an all powerful god, I shall be very annoyed with him. He has a lot to answer for.