I have no dreams or ambitions

[WhatPowerIs]

Does anyone else feel this way? Even if recovery were magically possible, what's the next step afterward? Society doesn't really allow us to linger or to catch our breath, we must always constantly be on the grind to work and to provide for ourselves, it doesn't feel like there's any chance for rest? Why is suicide still looked at as the abnormal option? Life is feeling increasingly more hostile and scary the older I get. I really can't imagine myself living for the next 40 years doing the same things over and over again.
Please tell me I am not alone in feeling this way.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

No you are definitely far from alone on this. It's one of the things I've even pondered about recovery because even if I were to recover by some miracle, toss everything I've planned to ctb out the window along with all the information ive gathered, what will happen after that? Just having to deal with the problems with life and the world that affect me. Having to prolong carrying the burden of the human condition.

Why suicide is still looked at as an abnormal option is because no matter how life can get, humans still see life as inherently good, something that we shouldn't lose the will to live through no matter the hardships. I can't imagine living out 50 more years either, it doesn't excite me for what the future potentially holds but rather- I feel a sense of dread and great anxiety over the fact that financially, I'll always struggle to even provide for myself and never mind the pressure that comes with dealing with this and then physically, your body is breaking down slowly but surely.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

No you are definitely far from alone on this. It's one of the things I've even pondered about recovery because even if I were to recover by some miracle, toss everything I've planned to ctb out the window along with all the information ive gathered, what will happen after that? Just having to deal with the problems with life and the world that affect me. Having to prolong carrying the burden of the human condition.

Why suicide is still looked at as an abnormal option is because no matter how life can get, humans still see life as inherently good, something that we shouldn't lose the will to live through no matter the hardships. I can't imagine living out 50 more years either, it doesn't excite me for what the future potentially holds but rather- I feel a sense of dread and great anxiety over the fact that financially, I'll always struggle to even provide for myself and never mind the pressure that comes with dealing with this and then physically, your body is breaking down slowly but surely.

I guess human history tells us that humans are pretty resilient right? I guess no wonder that humans have developed such attitudes towards suicide over time, yet suicide is also a constant throughout human history, people have always been committing suicide. It is hard for me to reconcile the idea that life is inherently a good thing. Pro-lifers always tell us that this is the only chance we have, but they are wrong in telling us that it's an inherently good thing. Maybe it is for the gifted ones who were able to remain optimistic throughout, but it is certainly not a good thing for a lot of other people.

I have no talents or skills to hone in on, practice. Depression is making these things more and more impossible by the day to the point it is becoming an insurmountable thing. It might take a miracle for me to actually start seeing things the way pro-lifers do, some form of divine intervention has to happen. It certainly isn't going to come from me, I think. :(

 

[Kit1]

I agree with what you have both said. Society travels at a speed that it is difficult to keep up with even under normal circumstances for a lot of people.

Despite there being more understanding and tolerance than previously, society is still moving at tortoise speed in other care for those who are vulnerable. But I think that those who are impacted by suicidal ideation also give ourselves a harder time due to lack of self confidence, self hatred etc.., which doesn't help either.

There are avenues that we can try and travel at a slower pace if we wanted to look at the path to recovery - I feel that the answer lies in whether we are ready to test the waters to that path of recovery (especially if we have tried and failed in the past)..,

 

[sanction]

Thats my biggest headache right now. Out of no options, I'm forced to try living again starting this new years, despite want to CTB

I been taking no action with life for past 5-6 years, because constantly want to CTB. At this point, I'm concerned if I end up staying around for another 5-6 years, or potentially longer, I'll be in super big trouble if my life is still a mess with no further progress

I simply can't afford this anymore. So now I'm stuck forcing myself to put more effort into this survival game of life, while clearly knowing it will all be a waste in the end, since eventually I'll still CTB

Its a torture. Most mornings upon waking, the very first thought is "whats the point?" Since taking SN (25 grams) is literally just 4 teaspoons of salt

If I have the guts to consume just 4 teaspoons of salt, everything could be over with in less than an hour, instead of a few more pointless decades

One day I will eventually talk myself into it. Just don't know when

 

[Forever Sleep]

I probably come at this from a slightly different perspective to you- I'm 43. So- I can kind of look back before looking forward. I can't honestly say I put full effort into 'recovering' (I've been suicidal since I was 10) but- I worked hard in many areas. I got fitter, I ate healthier, I used to walk a lot, I did two degrees- the second as a mature student, I followed my dreams- I've done my dream(ish) job or there abouts for over ten years, I layed down roots, I upped and restarted my life 3 times... I tried. But, I'm not so sure (for me anyway) that it was ever worth it! It was a lot of hard work for the lesser of the evils a lot of the time. I just feel so disillusioned I guess, where even the best case scenario looks kind of shit! So yeah- I'm feeling the same- nothing feels worth the effort. That's not to say it won't be for some people. Who knows? Life can work out for some I guess but it's certainly hard when you lose hope/ambition.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

Life can work out for some I guess but it's certainly hard when you lose hope/ambition.

See that's the thing, the "life can work out for some". not all of us will have that sense of drive to seek out that fulfillment that we're supposed in careers or whatever else. For some, they'll look back and ask themselves if all that was ever worth the time it took, every second of it.

Most mornings upon waking, the very first thought is "whats the point?" Since taking SN (25 grams) is literally just 4 teaspoons of salt

Yeap, I wake up that way everyday now. It's like "what's the point of waking up to deal with more of any of this, including my heart issues or the financial issues or the life issues itself not limited to how things just seem to keep getting worse and not worth the effort of going through to find some solace in the resilience of seeing it out. If there are no means to rectifying any of this to where I'd obtain a level of contentment enough to gain interesting in seeing it out then why bother.

If I have the guts to consume just 4 teaspoons of salt, everything could be over with in less than an hour, instead of a few more pointless decades

And then you won't have to contend with all the problems will come with living for more decades.

people have always been committing suicide. It is hard for me to reconcile the idea that life is inherently a good thing. Pro-lifers always tell us that this is the only chance we have, but they are wrong in telling us that it's an inherently good thing

That's true, and a whole variety of gruesome methods we'd never consider today for ourselves. It isn't an inherently good thing but because they make argument from the sheer chance of your birth happening when it did, it means you were supposedly lucky enough to live and experience all that there is on earth and what it has to offer. For me, it's still better to have never been, I would've never been subjected to harmful experiences nor seen others experience painful things too which is really awful for me. Pro-lifers are like cheap car salesman, they'll sell you all the good points as best they can to make it a convincing deal that you'd be absolutely crazy to refuse whilst barely touching on or leaving the bad parts out entirely nor will they even provide an adequate answer to " well, what if I'm not interested in the deal at all because I'm not obligated to be, it's with my choice for refuse and that should be respected far more than telling me what I could possibly be missing out on".

Depression is making these things more and more impossible by the day to the point it is becoming an insurmountable thing. It might take a miracle for me to actually start seeing things the way pro-lifers do, some form of divine intervention has to happen. It certainly isn't going to come from me, I think. :(

I don't think that'll happen either, some miracle where I see life the same way they do. It's pointless to mull over the chances of it happening to me.

 

[Forever Sleep]

See that's the thing, the "life can work out for some". not all of us will have that sense of drive to seek out that fulfillment that we're supposed in careers or whatever else. For some, they'll look back and ask themselves if all that was ever worth the time it took, every second of it.

Yeap, I wake up that way everyday now. It's like "what's the point of waking up to deal with more of any of this, including my heart issues or the financial issues or the life issues itself not limited to how things just seem to keep getting worse and not worth the effort of going through to find some solace in the resilience of seeing out.


And then you won't have to contend with all the problems will come with living for more decades.

True but I don't want to be the one to say- 'give up now- you're doomed to fail!' Truth is- I don't know. Neither do they. It could work out for them. It did work out for me for a while. Who knows? Maybe things will pick up and they'll be able to sustain it. Success depends on a whole number of variables. Most we can't even predict right now. So- it's wrong to say either: 'Things will get better' or 'Things won't improve.' What I said- was- things can. They can- they can go either way.

When it comes to motivation though- yes- that's a problem if you don't have it. In my experience- opportunities don't just materialise. You have to fight for every crumb and even then- you can still fail. True- that's where hope, ambition and resilience comes in. It's hard to get those if you don't have them.

All there is though is reasoning I suppose. Depends if you are likely to be stuck here. If you don't feel able to CTB for whatever reason, it's about making sure that life doesn't get any worse in a way. Some people of course see that as a positive- it will push them to CTB. For others though- it just means they suffer even more here. So- that's my take on it. I'm stuck here for now. I'm going to have to muster some hope soon to look for work so that I can pay my bills. I have to keep hope that I will still be creative though because that's the only hope I have left.

For youngsters though starting out with no interests, no ambition, no hope. Honestly, I wish I knew what to say to help but- I don't. I guess most people I've known had something they were working towards. Not always careers either. I've known people who loved to travel. They would do wage slave jobs long enough to save money and they'd be off. I've had friends who enjoed the bohemian lifestyle. Sofa surfing with friends. Even staying in cool abandoned buildings in exchange for providing the security. Going to festivals, the nomadic lifestyle. There are even people who just go and live off grid. There are alternatives out there but you need to decide what you want and go for it.

It could still be that nothing appeals of course and it might be that what you chose doesn't work out. There's no guarantees. I'm not arguing that people- especially young people should have hope. My pessimistic outlook feels dreadfully sorry for the young of today. I'd say it's better that they don't talk to people like me though! My views are too pessimistically skewed. They likely won't succeed if they don't try and talking to people like us will give them no sense of hope to even bother!

 

[sanction]

Life just takes too much damn effort. Just making a living already takes majority of your soul and energy. Then you still got to remain healthy and exercise everyday, eat right, pay bills on time, invest in relationships, try to buy an apartment/ house, while putting on this fake mask 24/7 and actually completely dead on the inside

Every time I put new effort, I can't help but feel rather than making progress, I'm instead actually prolonging the suffering by continuing to participate in this stupid game of life. Its more of a trap, because the more effort you invest, the more you're naturally trapped into the situation, and becomes harder to just let go of everything to vanish and CTB

While at the same time, its impossible to not put effort, otherwise will also end up in shitty life situation, because no one is coming to rescue us. Basically both options suck. We're just stuck and fucking trapped in this bullshit

 

[Deleted member 65988]

My pessimistic outlook feels dreadfully sorry for the young of today. I'd say it's better that they don't talk to people like me though! My views are too pessimistically skewed. They likely won't succeed if they don't try and talking to people like us will give them no sense of hope to even bother!

Makes sense, I'm generally pessimistic myself even towards my chances of ctb ironically even though I've put everything right in front of me that will give me the best chances of success but I'm always worried about the odds being against me on that day even if I've built up all the courage I could to do it.

Even staying in cool abandoned buildings in exchange for providing the security. Going to festivals, the nomadic lifestyle. There are even people who just go and live off grid. There are alternatives out there but you need to decide what you want and go for it.

This really depends on if the circumstances are favorable enough to do so. Abandoned buildings where I'm front are usually where you'd find drug addicts and criminals, not even kidding considering the high rate of crime.

. If you don't feel able to CTB for whatever reason, it's about making sure that life doesn't get any worse in a way. Some people of course see that as a positive- it will push them to CTB. For others though- it just means they suffer even more here. So- that's my take on it.

How can you stop from making life worse, sure you can make changes to your usual way of thinking through things but life will always be life, unpredictable and cruel so it can get worse but as to how much is anyone's guess.

Also, how do you write in paragraphs so fast, I can barely keep up even if you're responses are succinct and well rounded.

Success depends on a whole number of variables. Most we can't even predict right now. So- it's wrong to say either: 'Things will get better' or 'Things won't improve.' What I said- was- things can. They can- they can go either way.

Well probability is an unfair thing, it isn't going to change at all for how down anyone's situation is and they need reason to believe that things will change for the better. Judging by how most things go, chances are that success is extremely rare for the most part which is why so many chase it but so very, very few actually obtain it on some level where they feel satisfaction and contentment.

Every time I put new effort, I can't help but feel rather than making progress, I'm instead actually prolonging the suffering by continuing to participate in this stupid game of life. Its more of a trap, because the more effort you invest, the more you're naturally trapped into the situation, and becomes harder to just let go of everything to vanish and CTB

Wouldn't say it's a trap, it's a more of a gamble. You put a lot and you may get something out of it and it could either pay off or that'll come back to hurt you somehow. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

You have to fight for every crumb and even then- you can still fail. True- that's where hope, ambition and resilience comes in. It's hard to get those if you don't have them.

That to me is what sucks about it because then I ask what my chances if everyone else is doing the same thing but hardly getting anywhere or better.

Honestly, I wish I knew what to say to help but- I don't. I guess most people I've known had something they were working towards. Not always careers either. I've known people who loved to travel. They would do wage slave jobs long enough to save money and they'd be off

I guess some of us are just different. Either that end goal to travel or live a certain lifestyle isn't enough to go ahead and earn the means to be able to do all the things those people you know did.

 

[Aim]

I used to be super pro-life! Living my dream. But nope. Not anymore! Nothing is interesting anymore other then suicide. Strange how humans function. Sometimes without any control on what's happening inside and off course also on the outside. Anyhow, Wish you the best and merry X-mas

 

[sanction]

Wouldn't say it's a trap, it's a more of a gamble. You put a lot and you may get something out of it and it could either pay off or that'll come back to hurt you somehow. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

Yeah. Its bullshit. Even if I restart a new life today, it will take at least a few years (3 years minimum) to catch up and have even some basic progress

Which means I can't CTB in 3 years from now, otherwise it'll make no sense to CTB right away just when there is finally the first bit of progress

Naturally, after all the hard work, you would want to stay around at least a few more years, to reap the benefits of the hard work

That means I will have to stay alive for at least another 6 years (3 years to restart, 3 years to reap benefits), in order to it to even make a tiny bit of sense

But even that feels pointless. Because most likely there will be delays and unexpected bullshit. So the 3 years to restart, now becomes more like 4 to 5 years. Then after that, still need to stay alive for some reasonable years to reap the benefits

So feels like its either I stay alive for another 10 years or so, in order for the effort to make more sense, otherwise I shouldn't even participate at all to begin with, because its such a long journey. But how the fuck am I going to go from wanting to CTB asap, to suddenly finding motivation to survive another 10 years????

Its such a deep torture

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I used to be super pro-life! Living my dream. But nope. Not anymore! Nothing is interesting anymore other then suicide. Strange how humans function. Sometimes without any control on what's happening inside and off course outside. Wish you the best and merry X-mas

Wait you use to be super-pro life, what changed?

So feels like its either I stay alive for another 10 years or so, in order for the effort to make more sense, otherwise I shouldn't even participate at all to begin with, because its such a long journey. But how the fuck am I going to go from wanting to CTB asap, to suddenly finding motivation to survive another 10 years????

Yeah that's the thing, I don't know myself what could possibly change my mind to want to stay however long to live and give it all some chance, not consider ctb at all either. Finding that hope, that reason to be here is really something else, maybe a stroke of luck or something is what it takes but even then, life can swing the other way. It's like even winning the lottery, yeah its fine and great but things can swing the other way too since it's so fickle.

 

[gbi2]

Sometimes I think that depressed people* might not even have a mental illness. It could be just that we've seen that there isn't any point to anything. All there are are preferences and dislikes. We just add value to the things we are interested in and devalue the things we aren't. But some people have just stopped seeing things like that, so maybe that is them seeing things as they really are. So all they need to do now is survive by eating and staying warm, but you can't do that without engaging in a load of uninteresting things to get the food and warmth.

Certainly on a Doctors forum I was reading, one doctor said he had been diagnosed with depression and he said I'm not depressed, my life is just shit, and that made me wonder if that is the case with myself. In the absense of any label for my mental struggle I'm happy to to accept my life is just shit, and I can't accept that.

Yeah that's the thing, I don't know myself what could possibly change my mind to want to stay however long to live and give it all some chance, not consider ctb at all either. Finding that hope, that reason to be here is really something else, maybe a stroke of luck or something is what it takes but even then, life can swing the other way. It's like even winning the lottery, yeah its fine and great but things can swing the other way too since it's so fickle.

I've been trying to go for weeks now, got the SN now too, so another method is available to me, I've not eaten properly for a few days so I am prepared to go ahead and start the painkillers and anti-sickness tabs when I just decide to do it. I've thought that finding a renewed interest in my hobbies would be what would make me want to live again, but it hasn't been. I've found a little bit of motivation in trying to get justice for my job loss. Even though I will probably fail, the thought of just being able to let people know of things the culprits would not want out in the open (they'll probably deny it, but...), is giving me some motivation to go through with it and see what happens. It's probably not the best way to find meaning to carry on and not what I thought would make me reconsider, but it might change my mind over these next few weeks.

Maybe the lack of food is making me think differently!

 

[Forever Sleep]

Makes sense, I'm generally pessimistic myself even towards my chances of ctb ironically even though I've put everything right in front of me that will give me the best chances of success but I'm always worried about the odds being against me on that day even if I've built up all the courage I could to do it.


This really depends on if the circumstances are favorable enough to do so. Abandoned buildings where I'm front are usually where you'd find drug addicts and criminals, not even kidding considering the high rate of crime.


How can you stop from making life worse, sure you can make changes to your usual way of thinking through things but life will always be life, unpredictable and cruel so it can get worse but as to how much is anyone's guess.

Also, how do you write in paragraphs so fast, I can barely keep up even if you're responses are succinct and well rounded.


Well probability is an unfair thing, it isn't going to change at all for how down anyone's situation is and they need reason to believe that things will change for the better. Judging by how most things go, chances are that success is extremely rare for the most part which is why so many chase it but so very, very few actually obtain it on some level where they feel satisfaction and contentment.

Wouldn't say it's a trap, it's a more of a gamble. You put a lot and you may get something out of it and it could either pay off or that'll come back to hurt you somehow. Dammed if you do, dammed if you don't.

That to me is what sucks about it because then I ask what my chances if everyone else is doing the same thing but hardly getting anywhere or better.


I guess some of us are just different. Either that end goal to travel or live a certain lifestyle isn't enough to go ahead and earn the means to be able to do all the things those people you know did.

Yeah- all fair points and I'm not actually arguing with any of them. I can't- I'm a pessimist- I think life is unfair too. Plus- I'm pro-choice- I respect the rights of people to make their own way in life. I can't tell people what to think or enjoy or aim for.

I guess all I'm saying is- it's a catch 22 in a way. I think you need a certain amount of hope/ ambition/ drive to work towards a goal- whatever that is. Even CTB won't work if you just sit around and do nothing. But- especially life goals. You need some vague idea of what you want to try. But- like you say- why should people have hope when the outlook looks so bleak- even the best case scenario? I can't answer that. That's up to the individual person. I'm not going to tell you or anyone else what to focus on, what's worth it- I can't. I don't know what's important to you. If people aren't sure but want to find out- they probably need to seek out more positive people than me to help them.

But- it's practicalities. Someone who has no means to CTB or for whatever reason is hesitating now has a dilema. In my case- I have always wanted to hold off CTB for certain loved ones to go first. That's my choice of course- not everyone's but it meant I was likely to be stuck here for a while, so I guess I tried to make it as fulfilling for myself as I could. I was 'lucky' in some ways in that regard because for me- that wasn't a conscious decision- it was more a coping mechanism that I followed. In the long run though- it's failed pretty much! It may not for all though.

But, as a hypothetical example, say a suicidal person's rent is due next month but money is running out. What do they do? They can try for benefits, they can try and get a job, they can just do nothing and end up homeless. So- our actions can affect just how bad life gets. We don't necessarily have to believe in something or even want to do it to know that if we don't do it- life likely will get worse. That's all I meant- not that we make the tinniest effort and everything becomes a fairytale.

I expect the thing is though with many members here- especially young ones, they may still be living with their parents or be financially supported. So- this harsh reality of life suddenly getting so much worse if they don't act may not actually be there. Their parents may not like it but they may even support them as a NEET, so- the intense pressure to change life or end it becomes dilluted. That's the impression I get anyway.

It's different for everyone. I was desperate to get out of a toxic environment at 18, so uni seemed very appealing. Some people can't afford that though. I'm not trying to say everyone can be saved. I'm not a pro-lifer. It has to be up to the individual. It really has to be up to what they want and how much they want it- whatever that is. No one can give that to you.

The guy that lived in the abandoned buildings came from France actually. (I'm in the UK.) He was a student at uni. He didn't just find the nearest abadoned crack house! He came here to study, worked almost full time alongside to support himself and found these organisations that employ people to stay in these buildings and guard them. A risk still of course but they were there to keep the crack heads out! An awesome guy. Very positive- as you might imagine. As far as I'm aware- he's doing well even now. So- some people make it in life and they do it on their own steam. The guts to do all that though? That's impressive I think.

 

[Kit1]

True but I don't want to be the one to say- 'give up now- you're doomed to fail!' Truth is- I don't know. Neither do they. It could work out for them. It did work out for me for a while. Who knows? Maybe things will pick up and they'll be able to sustain it. Success depends on a whole number of variables. Most we can't even predict right now. So- it's wrong to say either: 'Things will get better' or 'Things won't improve.' What I said- was- things can. They can- they can go either way.

When it comes to motivation though- yes- that's a problem if you don't have it. In my experience- opportunities don't just materialise. You have to fight for every crumb and even then- you can still fail. True- that's where hope, ambition and resilience comes in. It's hard to get those if you don't have them.

All there is though is reasoning I suppose. Depends if you are likely to be stuck here. If you don't feel able to CTB for whatever reason, it's about making sure that life doesn't get any worse in a way. Some people of course see that as a positive- it will push them to CTB. For others though- it just means they suffer even more here. So- that's my take on it. I'm stuck here for now. I'm going to have to muster some hope soon to look for work so that I can pay my bills. I have to keep hope that I will still be creative though because that's the only hope I have left.

For youngsters though starting out with no interests, no ambition, no hope. Honestly, I wish I knew what to say to help but- I don't. I guess most people I've known had something they were working towards. Not always careers either. I've known people who loved to travel. They would do wage slave jobs long enough to save money and they'd be off. I've had friends who enjoed the bohemian lifestyle. Sofa surfing with friends. Even staying in cool abandoned buildings in exchange for providing the security. Going to festivals, the nomadic lifestyle. There are even people who just go and live off grid. There are alternatives out there but you need to decide what you want and go for it.

It could still be that nothing appeals of course and it might be that what you chose doesn't work out. There's no guarantees. I'm not arguing that people- especially young people should have hope. My pessimistic outlook feels dreadfully sorry for the young of today. I'd say it's better that they don't talk to people like me though! My views are too pessimistically skewed. They likely won't succeed if they don't try and talking to people like us will give them no sense of hope to even bother!

That is so well said, Forever Sleep. Those of us who are older (I am 48) and are here are more likely to be pessimistic and this really is not ideal for young people. I hope, with all my heart, that especially the young people reading this really have look to see how much the world might have to offer and at the various opportunities out there before you read too much into what people like me write here. Whilst I come room a place of great pain (and I am not saying that as young people, you do not have pain as I have had this pain since I can remember myself), I can also be quite pessimistic. Yet regardless of all the pain that I have experienced since birth, I tried and succeeded in so many ways and there were times of happiness and I wish that every young person is able to give themselves an opportunity to explore the world and experience some happiness before making a decision.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

I feel this way too and I'm sick of people wanting me to participate in this game. Firstly, I never even asked to be here to begin with which means that it should be valid if I could leave here on a peaceful note whenever I wanted to yet I can't. Secondly, why am I expected to have a dream job and stuff? I hated the idea of working ever since I was young (around 9). It's extremely awful and, even if there is a job that specialises in what I like, the job itself is going to be awful due to the nature of work (hell, even pro life people themselves acknowledge that there are parts of a job that aren't enjoyable).

My dream is to have everything handed to me on a silver platter whilst I don't have to work a day in my life. Nonetheless, that's obviously impossible and, even if it wasn't, for me to not work implies that other people must suffer in my place instead which I'd rather avoid. Hence the next best dream I got is me being dead as early as possible.

People act like it's invalid to not have a dream regarding work or life itself but I think that it's just as valid as those who do have dreams and ambitions about life.

Also, a few people here talked about the future being relatively bleak even if they were to recover and I think that would apply to me as well. Like, what, I recover and then I have to get forced to work for the rest of my life; I arguably have to work harder than others too as I can't even get employed for the most basic jobs due to the current mess that I'm in due to my autism and never even having socialised with anybody irl aside from family for my entire life. Just for context, I'd say that me typing this message to you and other people who read this is more socialisation to me than I get irl.

Life, to me, is simply not worth the effort

 

[Kit1]

Yeah. Its bullshit. Even if I restart a new life today, it will take at least a few years (3 years minimum) to catch up and have even some basic progress

Which means I can't CTB in 3 years from now, otherwise it'll make no sense to CTB right away just when there is finally the first bit of progress

Naturally, after all the hard work, you would want to stay around at least a few more years, to reap the benefits of the hard work

That means I will have to stay alive for at least another 6 years (3 years to restart, 3 years to reap benefits), in order to it to even make a tiny bit of sense

But even that feels pointless. Because most likely there will be delays and unexpected bullshit. So the 3 years to restart, now becomes more like 4 to 5 years. Then after that, still need to stay alive for some reasonable years to reap the benefits

So feels like its either I stay alive for another 10 years or so, in order for the effort to make more sense, otherwise I shouldn't even participate at all to begin with, because its such a long journey. But how the fuck am I going to go from wanting to CTB asap, to suddenly finding motivation to survive another 10 years????

Its such a deep torture

Dear Sanction,

Saddened to read what you wrote though you made sense.

Let me give you an alternative. In my life, people often feel that I have everything - a family (husband and the two best children any mum could ask for - obviously my biased opinion), a secure job that I actually love, volunteering/charity work that I love, secure accommodation, safety and good friends. Yet I am still on this site and I dint know my death date - I will end my life most likely in a dissociated state so I have no control or idea of dates or I will willingly end my life when I fall unwell enough that I know I will not recover without treatment (I no longer use the medical services and would rather die than show up begging for treatment from arrogant prats who have no idea or intelligence to accommodate my accessibility needs to treat me). In the meantime, I am working towards certain goals and feeling depressed and distressed as hell. We can have an option, a choice - we can end our lives when we choose and return to this point even if we decide to give life a go. But once we are gone, it will be final (hopefully ad I really don't want to return to ground zero again)..,

 

[WhatPowerIs]

Yeah- all fair points and I'm not actually arguing with any of them. I can't- I'm a pessimist- I think life is unfair too. Plus- I'm pro-choice- I respect the rights of people to make their own way in life. I can't tell people what to think or enjoy or aim for.

I guess all I'm saying is- it's a catch 22 in a way. I think you need a certain amount of hope/ ambition/ drive to work towards a goal- whatever that is. Even CTB won't work if you just sit around and do nothing. But- especially life goals. You need some vague idea of what you want to try. But- like you say- why should people have hope when the outlook looks so bleak- even the best case scenario? I can't answer that. That's up to the individual person. I'm not going to tell you or anyone else what to focus on, what's worth it- I can't. I don't know what's important to you. If people aren't sure but want to find out- they probably need to seek out more positive people than me to help them.

But- it's practicalities. Someone who has no means to CTB or for whatever reason is hesitating now has a dilema. In my case- I have always wanted to hold off CTB for certain loved ones to go first. That's my choice of course- not everyone's but it meant I was likely to be stuck here for a while, so I guess I tried to make it as fulfilling for myself as I could. I was 'lucky' in some ways in that regard because for me- that wasn't a conscious decision- it was more a coping mechanism that I followed. In the long run though- it's failed pretty much! It may not for all though.

But, as a hypothetical example, say a suicidal person's rent is due next month but money is running out. What do they do? They can try for benefits, they can try and get a job, they can just do nothing and end up homeless. So- our actions can affect just how bad life gets. We don't necessarily have to believe in something or even want to do it to know that if we don't do it- life likely will get worse. That's all I meant- not that we make the tinniest effort and everything becomes a fairytale.

I expect the thing is though with many members here- especially young ones, they may still be living with their parents or be financially supported. So- this harsh reality of life suddenly getting so much worse if they don't act may not actually be there. Their parents may not like it but they may even support them as a NEET, so- the intense pressure to change life or end it becomes dilluted. That's the impression I get anyway.

It's different for everyone. I was desperate to get out of a toxic environment at 18, so uni seemed very appealing. Some people can't afford that though. I'm not trying to say everyone can be saved. I'm not a pro-lifer. It has to be up to the individual. It really has to be up to what they want and how much they want it- whatever that is. No one can give that to you.

The guy that lived in the abandoned buildings came from France actually. (I'm in the UK.) He was a student at uni. He didn't just find the nearest abadoned crack house! He came here to study, worked almost full time alongside to support himself and found these organisations that employ people to stay in these buildings and guard them. A risk still of course but they were there to keep the crack heads out! An awesome guy. Very positive- as you might imagine. As far as I'm aware- he's doing well even now. So- some people make it in life and they do it on their own steam. The guts to do all that though? That's impressive I think.

Even the people who are sitting around and doing nothing look like they are dying but in their own way. They are withering away. Rotting. Maybe they'll get up to get some food once in awhile but they are slowly falling apart, decaying, it's not a very pretty picture.

I don't really know how to respond to the rest of this. I am much younger than you. I am in university though I don't want to be. After taking career aptitude tests and whatever I still don't have even the vaguest picture of what I want out of my future. I don't really think there's much hope to cling onto.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I think you need a certain amount of hope/ ambition/ drive to work towards a goal- whatever that is. Even CTB won't work if you just sit around and do nothing. But- especially life goals. You need some vague idea of what you want to try. But- like you say- why should people have hope when the outlook looks so bleak- even the best case scenario? I can't answer that. That's up to the individual person. I'm not going to tell you or anyone else what to focus on, what's worth it- I can't. I don't know what's important to you. If people aren't sure but want to find out- they probably need to seek out more positive people than me to help them.

Funny how I've put everything into learning and planning ctb then because I've actually not just sat back and did nothing, I did a lot about it so i guess there's that drive to see things out on my terms before long. I guess if it matters to the individual, they'll give it a go for as long as they can

tried and succeeded in so many ways and there were times of happiness and I wish that every young person is able to give themselves an opportunity to explore the world and experience some happiness before making a decision.

Yeah well, once I'm dead, it won't matter what opportunities were there to begin with. They'll fade to nothing and it's not like I would've known what I was missing out on. I've already made a decision and deliberated time and time again for months whilst combating all the doubts I've carefully dealt with to be where I am right now, real close to ctbing without anyone even suspecting a thing. Whatever happiness there was to experience should've happened long before I got my hands on everything I had to get, don't even care if that'll make a difference now that I'm more determined to ctb than not despite the ever-present thoughts of si or concerns of failure. I understand the finality of this choice, that once i make that jump, there's no coming back from it and I'm fine with it.

Even though I will probably fail, the thought of just being able to let people know of things the culprits would not want out in the open (they'll probably deny it, but...), is giving me some motivation to go through with it and see what happens. It's probably not the best way to find meaning to carry on and not what I thought would make me reconsider, but it might change my mind over these next few weeks.

Don't see anything problem with trying to see now far that goes if you can get something out of it.

Those of us who are older (I am 48) and are here are more likely to be pessimistic and this really is not ideal for young people. I hope, with all my heart, that especially the young people reading this really have look to see how much the world might have to offer and at the various opportunities out there before you read too much into what people like me write here

That I can understand, I'm not taking your experience as is for what it means for me being younger, I've already been pessimistic long before I joined this forum or knew of any forums of this kind could even exist.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Funny how I've put everything into learning and planning ctb then because I've actually not just sat back and did nothing, I did a lot about it so i guess there's that drive to see things out on my terms before long. I guess if it matters to the individual, they'll give it a go for as long as they can

Yeah well, once I'm dead, it won't matter what opportunities were there to begin with. They'll fade to nothing and it's not like I would've known what I was missing out on. I've already made a decision and deliberated time and time again for months whilst combating all the doubts I've carefully dealt with to be where I am right now, real close to ctbing without anyone even suspecting a thing. Whatever happiness there was to experience should've happened long before I got my hands on everything I had to get, don't even care if that'll make a difference now that I'm more determined to ctb than not despite the ever-present thoughts of si or concerns of failure. I understand the finality of this choice, that once i make that jump, there's no coming back from it and I'm fine with it.

Don't see anything problem with trying to see now far that goes if you can get something out of it.

That I can understand, I'm not taking your experience as is for what it means for me being younger, I've already been pessimistic long before I joined this forum or knew of any forums of this kind could even exist.

Oh yeah- true. CTB takes just as much effort sometimes as other stuff in life. When I first became really properly actively suicidal and I realised I was too much of a wuss for a method like jumping, I thought ffs- dying is going to be just as problematic and risky as flipping living! But yeah- it's the same deal I believe. You want it enough- you have to go through it all. For something like SN: researching, earning the money to buy stuff, risking ordering it, risking customs, risking a police check, possibly having to bluff to doctors for supplementary meds. None of it is easy. In some ways, it almost feels like a fitting end to a life that was full of risk for me. I feel like my death will be too if I CTB! And- that's not even going ahead with it and seeing how that turns out. I think many people who suicide do have drive but it's geared towards escape.

 

[Groundhog_Day]

I think many people who suicide do have drive but it's geared towards escape.

So true. I had so much admiration for how focused and determined Avaruus and tofargone were in their goodbye threads. You just knew they had completely made up their minds, and nothing could stop them.

 

[Painless_end]

Does anyone else feel this way?

Yes

Even if recovery were magically possible, what's the next step afterward?

Moving on to a sustainable future

Society doesn't really allow us to linger or to catch our breath, we must always constantly be on the grind to work and to provide for ourselves, it doesn't feel like there's any chance for rest?

Correct

Why is suicide still looked at as the abnormal option?

That's totally upto you to do it in privacy away from prying eyes

Life is feeling increasingly more hostile and scary the older I get. I really can't imagine myself living for the next 40 years doing the same things over and over again.
Please tell me I am not alone in feeling this way.

Not alone. I wish I was never born.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

You want it enough- you have to go through it all. For something like SN: researching, earning the money to buy stuff, risking ordering it, risking customs, risking a police check, possibly having to bluff to doctors for supplementary meds. None of it is easy. In some ways, it almost feels like a fitting end to a life that was full of risk for me. I feel like my death will be too if I CTB! And- that's not even going ahead with it and seeing how that turns out. I think many people who suicide do have drive but it's geared towards escape.

And I've done all of that, researching, learning and observing as much as this method as possible. Had the money to buy it, got the supplementary meds for the sn from doctors who didn't even know. All thats left is to put everything into play and hopefully ctb like those I've seen this year.

You're right though, people who suicide do have drive, it's not easy to plan all of this and execute it, let alone go through the thoughts of doubt and fear over and over again.

 

[WhatPowerIs]

I feel this way too and I'm sick of people wanting me to participate in this game. Firstly, I never even asked to be here to begin with which means that it should be valid if I could leave here on a peaceful note whenever I wanted to yet I can't. Secondly, why am I expected to have a dream job and stuff? I hated the idea of working ever since I was young (around 9). It's extremely awful and, even if there is a job that specialises in what I like, the job itself is going to be awful due to the nature of work (hell, even pro life people themselves acknowledge that there are parts of a job that aren't enjoyable).

My dream is to have everything handed to me on a silver platter whilst I don't have to work a day in my life. Nonetheless, that's obviously impossible and, even if it wasn't, for me to not work implies that other people must suffer in my place instead which I'd rather avoid. Hence the next best dream I got is me being dead as early as possible.

People act like it's invalid to not have a dream regarding work or life itself but I think that it's just as valid as those who do have dreams and ambitions about life.

Also, a few people here talked about the future being relatively bleak even if they were to recover and I think that would apply to me as well. Like, what, I recover and then I have to get forced to work for the rest of my life; I arguably have to work harder than others too as I can't even get employed for the most basic jobs due to the current mess that I'm in due to my autism and never even having socialised with anybody irl aside from family for my entire life. Just for context, I'd say that me typing this message to you and other people who read this is more socialisation to me than I get irl.

Life, to me, is simply not worth the effort

I resonate with this so much. Our culture, our world, looks so bleak. If, by the end of it all, I have everything "figured out" - will it really have been worth it? I'm not really sure. I don't think so. I guess that requires some age and experience to figure out. Everything looks to be heading into a dark place. Maybe it's depression clouding my judgment? Everything is incredibly difficult.

 

[Deleted member 65988]

I feel this way too and I'm sick of people wanting me to participate in this game. Firstly, I never even asked to be here to begin with which means that it should be valid if I could leave here on a peaceful note whenever I wanted to yet I can't. Secondly, why am I expected to have a dream job and stuff? I hated the idea of working ever since I was young (around 9). It's extremely awful and, even if there is a job that specialises in what I like, the job itself is going to be awful due to the nature of work (hell, even pro life people themselves acknowledge that there are parts of a job that aren't enjoyable).

My dream is to have everything handed to me on a silver platter whilst I don't have to work a day in my life. Nonetheless, that's obviously impossible and, even if it wasn't, for me to not work implies that other people must suffer in my place instead which I'd rather avoid. Hence the next best dream I got is me being dead as early as possible.

People act like it's invalid to not have a dream regarding work or life itself but I think that it's just as valid as those who do have dreams and ambitions about life.

Also, a few people here talked about the future being relatively bleak even if they were to recover and I think that would apply to me as well. Like, what, I recover and then I have to get forced to work for the rest of my life; I arguably have to work harder than others too as I can't even get employed for the most basic jobs due to the current mess that I'm in due to my autism and never even having socialised with anybody irl aside from family for my entire life. Just for context, I'd say that me typing this message to you and other people who read this is more socialisation to me than I get irl.

Life, to me, is simply not worth the effort

Very well said.

 

[jbear824]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not having passions, ambitions or goals. Don't let society convince you that you need to have those things. It's okay to not want much out of life.

All I want out of life is a place to live, food to eat, clothes to wear. Play video games, watch TV and be with my people.

That's it. That's all I want in life. I don't want a career. I have no goals. I don't care about furthering my academic education. Nothing I want to accomplish. Why should we have to? just because the rest of the world is brainwashed to believe that we must?

 

[sanction]

A lot of thoughtful and intelligent responses here that all make a lot of sense

I just want to say whoever started this forum is a genius and hero to all of us. Truly don't know what I'd do without this supportive community

Its really my absolute last place to turn to during dark times. Also, without all these CTB method explanations, I might of accidentally did it the wrong way a while ago and instead ended up way worst

Deeply appreciate this forum. Thanks for everybody's patience to hear me rant and vent

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

You're definitely not alone. There has to be at least couple billion out of the 8 billion on this planet that feel the same way. Even if it's only a few hundred million or even only tens of millions, the fact that only about 700,000 CTB worldwide every year is so perplexing. I think this number will skyrocket in the next half decade. People are starting to wake up to the fact that human life for the average person is a miserable existence. Less people are having children now. And the people that are having children are mostly the scum of the earth. The world will never get better, it will only get worse.

 

[sanction]

You're definitely not alone. There has to be at least couple billion out of the 8 billion on this planet that feel the same way. Even if it's only a few hundred million or even only tens of millions, the fact that only about 700,000 CTB worldwide every year is so perplexing. I think this number will skyrocket in the next half decade. People are starting to wake up to the fact that human life for the average person is a miserable existence. Less people are having children now. And the people that are having children are mostly the scum of the earth. The world will never get better, it will only get worse.

What is your estimated percentage (or ratio) of people who happy, or at least reasonably satisfied with life, versus people who aren't?

My guess is out of every 10 people, around 3 people are on the happier / satisfied side, while 7 are either not that satisfied or unhappy

In other words, 70% negative, and 30% positive

But that estimate is only for the current world, where theres better technology, resources and options. If it was in previous centuries, then probably 80-90% negative, and only 10-20% positive