I hate that survival bias

[PoisonousPotato]

Some issues with the right to die really make me think to survivorship bias.

The goal of suicide prevention has little to do with protecting the person that wants to ctb. Suicide prevention comes imo at least partially from the fact that when people ctb, they often have a familyor some friends, that are upset. Specifically because the person is dead, nobody will take what they want into account. All that remains is the will of the family, that would have done everything they could to avoid it, even if this is directly harmful to the person.

There is a different survival bias among people that wanted ctb but that are now pro life. Of course, this is the kind of persons the pro lifes want to hear. But those persons a) survived to ctb, or didn't try it and b) successfully recovered from whatever was the reason they wanted to ctb. Any person that died or didn't recover from, let's say, a crippling illness, won't be heard.

People who ctb are not likely to be heard, not just because they want to ctb and that's taboo, but because their exact situation won't allow them to be heard. They are likely to be poor, or ill, or handicapped, or they belong to an opressed minority ; or maybe they'll die sooner, from ctb or other, and everybody can ignore their will to die. Thus, they don't have the resources to be heard.

I don't know if what i say makes sense but whatever

 

[pyroxenic]

Full agree, in todays timeline there are many resources and help one may need in time of crisis, theres more support now for sure. But i think a lot of people are choosing to ignore the many root causes for people who try/tried to CTB. Will hotlines and therapy really help fix povery, abuse and many more issues that spike up the reasons of CTB? Its so much easier to shove a hotline number against someone whos suicidal and pat yourself on the back because you think you saved someones life! No one wants to actually fix the root causes because capitilism and the richest depend on exploting an average person and their economy. Suicide will always stay taboo and something to shame on no matter how much we progress.

 

[jodes2]

It's hard to follow for me to be honest, but no fault of your own, survivorship bias is a hard concept to grasp and I think you're tackling a few applications of it at the same time which just makes it a bit harder still. @pyroxenic's contribution helped demistify it a bit further for me as well. Is the essence of it tha pro-lifers aren't aware of what goes through the mind of someone who actually wants to CTB? Or that People who recover become pro lifers as a matter of course? Sorry, I'm not very bright to be frank. I don't think my autism is helping me either. Sigh. But yeah survivorship bias clearly must have some effect here

 

[FuneralCry]

The reality is that suicide prevention could only ever be prolonging suffering. Denying people a right to die could never be justified no matter what deluded beliefs that pro lifers try to push onto others. I hate the fact that there is a lack of acceptance towards the fact that existence is simply not worth enduring for so many in this world and how suicide is a perfectly rational solution in response to this. And it disgusts me when people stop the suicide attempts of others, they have no right to do such a thing.

The whole 'people regret suicide attempts' view that pro lifers like to push really is harmful as it can convince non suicidal people that everybody needs to be 'saved', when in reality stopping an attempt just causes more harm and it's disrespecting a basic human right, it's not really saving people, just tormenting them even more.

 

[absolomonisgone]

The reality is that suicide prevention could only ever be prolonging suffering. Denying people a right to die could never be justified no matter what deluded beliefs that pro lifers try to push onto others. I hate the fact that there is a lack of acceptance towards the fact that existence is simply not worth enduring for so many in this world and how suicide is a perfectly rational solution in response to this. And it disgusts me when people stop the suicide attempts of others, they have no right to do such a thing.

The whole 'people regret suicide attempts' view that pro lifers like to push really is harmful as it can convince non suicidal people that everybody needs to be 'saved', when in reality stopping an attempt just causes more harm and it's disrespecting a basic human right, it's not really saving people, just tormenting them even more.

Thank you