I found out my friend's dog has a prescription for N

[thefoodispoison]

The dog has seizures and they mentioned that he has a prescription for pentobarbital to control them. My first thought was whether I could visit some time and find it, offer to dog-sit or house-sit when they're out of town so I have time to look. I have no idea how much they might have on hand, they probably only get one bottle at a time and especially if it's partially used it would probably not be enough.

It also gave me another thought though, for anyone who has a pet dog -- how easy would it be to fake that your dog has seizures? Would the vet have to witness one before prescribing N? Or could you get it just from describing the experience of a seizure?

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Probably tablets, I doubt they know how to inject the dog.

 

[thefoodispoison]

Probably tablets, I doubt they know how to inject the dog.

Really? I know people who give their pets regular injections for diabetes and stuff. I think N can be injected IM which is easier than trying to hit a vein.

If it was tablets, can those also be used to CTB? It would be the same drug.

 

[Seeking_Peace]

Of course, a lady from Cali had N in tablet form from her dr. She had terminal brain cancer, her name was Brittany. Look it up.

 

[Manaaja]

I once got some type of medicine in injection form from a vet. I don't remember what it was, some kind of painkiller maybe, I remember I was supposed to inject it into her, but I couldn't so someone else did it for me.

Maybe go to a rescue site, find a dog with a sickness that requires N, and adopt it, take it to vet, get N, and then sell the dog or give it back or something.

But yeah, I doubt it'll be enough to kill a person. I just can't see them giving that much N to people, the people might accidentally kill their dogs.

Interesting to know they use N for seizures.

 

[Nina1]

The dog has seizures and they mentioned that he has a prescription for pentobarbital to control them. My first thought was whether I could visit some time and find it, offer to dog-sit or house-sit when they're out of town so I have time to look. I have no idea how much they might have on hand, they probably only get one bottle at a time and especially if it's partially used it would probably not be enough.

It also gave me another thought though, for anyone who has a pet dog -- how easy would it be to fake that your dog has seizures? Would the vet have to witness one before prescribing N? Or could you get it just from describing the experience of a sethat's a brilliant idea to lie about seizures,

I once got some type of medicine in injection form from a vet. I don't remember what it was, some kind of painkiller maybe, I remember I was supposed to inject it into her, but I couldn't so someone else did it for me.

Maybe go to a rescue site, find a dog with a sickness that requires N, and adopt it, take it to vet, get N, and then sell the dog or give it back or something.

But yeah, I doubt it'll be enough to kill a person. I just can't see them giving that much N to people, the people might accidentally kill their dogs.

Interesting to know they use N for seizures.

 

[Doombox]

N is not routinely prescribed by vets for animals with seizures. There are too many safer anticonvulsants. The only reason I can guess that someone has it for their dog is for emergency use if the dog has a severe seizure. I think anyone who goes to a vet and specifically asks for n for a pet is not going to get it. I've had a lot of pets that had a lot of different conditions, including one that had seizures, and I was never offered n.

.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Sorry, but there's almost certainly been a mistake here. Dogs with epilepsy are put on phenobarbital, NOT pentobarbital. I suggest prior to stealing the medicine this dog actually NEEDS, that you search the forum or ask a new question to learn how useful phenobarbital is or is not for CTB purposes.

 

[Doombox]

Sorry, but there's almost certainly been a mistake here. Dogs with epilepsy are put on phenobarbital, NOT pentobarbital. I suggest prior to stealing the medicine this dog actually NEEDS, that you search the forum or ask a new question to learn how useful phenobarbital is or is not for CTB purposes.

Thanks for clearing that up....I know a bit about vet medicine and I couldn't figure out why a vet would prescribe n for seizures!

 

[Cathy Ames]

Thanks for clearing that up....I know a bit about vet medicine and I couldn't figure out why a vet would prescribe n for seizures!

I think we were posting at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 31858]

please don't go stealing pentobarbital from a dog that is having a hard time and needs it for emergencies. it would be very horrible if they were counting on it for an emergency and found out that they no longer have it at a bad time. that's a terrible idea :(

Maybe go to a rescue site, find a dog with a sickness that requires N, and adopt it, take it to vet, get N, and then sell the dog or give it back or something.

another terrible idea. Why make a dog that has already suffered a lot suffer more?

 

[LifeHasNoOptIn]

Sorry, but there's almost certainly been a mistake here. Dogs with epilepsy are put on phenobarbital, NOT pentobarbital. I suggest prior to stealing the medicine this dog actually NEEDS, that you search the forum or ask a new question to learn how useful phenobarbital is or is not for CTB purposes.

This is correct. My sister had a dog with similar problems that was prescribed phenobarbital not pentobarbital. On a sad note, my other sister apparently stole some when caring for the dogs one week while my sister was on vacation.

 

[thefoodispoison]

Sorry, but there's almost certainly been a mistake here. Dogs with epilepsy are put on phenobarbital, NOT pentobarbital. I suggest prior to stealing the medicine this dog actually NEEDS, that you search the forum or ask a new question to learn how useful phenobarbital is or is not for CTB purposes.

It's possible they were mistaken when talking about it, but she definitely said pentobarbital. I've been around on the forums for a while and read extensively about N, so I recognized the name immediately when she said it and did not mishear. According to a quick Google and looking at trusted results like NIH, pento is also used for seizure management in addition to pheno, so it's entirely possible it's been prescribed to them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK545288/

Pentobarbital is a drug within the barbiturate class that works primarily on the central nervous system. At low doses, indications include short-term sedatives to treat insomnia and as a pre-anesthetic for surgery.[1] At higher doses, pentobarbital serves as an anticonvulsant for emergent seizure control and medically induced comas. Pentobarbital is often subject to comparison with phenobarbital, another barbiturate, in the use of refractory status epilepticus. Studies have found that pentobarbital is superior in that it has faster brain penetration and a shorter half-life, making it the treatment of choice.

Another: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4095579

Another: https://www.merckvetmanual.com/pharmacology/systemic-pharmacotherapeutics-of-the-nervous-system/antiepileptic-drugs-used-to-stop-ongoing-seizure-activity

Sodium pentobarbital is generally reserved for treatment of uncontrollable status epilepticus in dogs and cats, especially when diazepam and phenobarbital have failed (see Table: Drugs Used for Treatment of Status Epilepticus). In these species, it is administered at 2–15 mg/kg to effect for anesthesia. Pentobarbital is a respiratory depressant, so respiratory assistance must be readily available. The drug is irritating if administered perivascularly or subcutaneously. As the animal recovers from the drug's effects, excitement may occur, which can be mistaken for seizure activity.

 

[Cathy Ames]

Maybe you didn't mishear but rather she misspoke.

According to a quick Google and looking at trusted results like NIH, pento is also used for seizure management in addition to pheno, so it's entirely possible it's been prescribed to them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK545288/

Did you even read it? It says, "Pentobarbital is not used widely in clinical medicine because of its poor safety, habituation, and lack of an antidote." That's HUMAN medicine. It would be even less likely to be used in veterinary medicine. This is a Schedule II drug. It is extremely unusual for veterinarians to send Schedule II drugs home with clients, and I'd guess when used in humans it mostly happens in the hospital. Like when someone is brought in having seizures that cannot be stopped by other means.

 

[LifeHasNoOptIn]

It's possible they were mistaken when talking about it, but she definitely said pentobarbital. I've been around on the forums for a while and read extensively about N, so I recognized the name immediately when she said it and did not mishear. According to a quick Google and looking at trusted results like NIH, pento is also used for seizure management in addition to pheno, so it's entirely possible it's been prescribed to them.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK545288/



Another: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4095579

Another: https://www.merckvetmanual.com/pharmacology/systemic-pharmacotherapeutics-of-the-nervous-system/antiepileptic-drugs-used-to-stop-ongoing-seizure-activity

After looking around a bit it does seem like there are some rare instances where pento is used for seizures when other meds are ineffective, so I guess it's a possibility. It seems unlikely to me given it's control level II schedule, but it would be interesting to know if it is indeed a thing.

Pentobarbital for Dogs and Cats

Pentobarbital is a barbiturate dug introduced as a sedative and anesthetic. Pentobarbital is now most commonly used for euthanasia for dogs and cats.

www.petplace.com

 

[Cathy Ames]

Maybe you didn't mishear but rather she misspoke.



Did you even read it? It says, "Pentobarbital is not used widely in clinical medicine because of its poor safety, habituation, and lack of an antidote." That's HUMAN medicine. It would be even less likely to be used in veterinary medicine. This is a Schedule II drug. It is extremely unusual for veterinarians to send Schedule II drugs home with clients, and I'd guess when used in humans it mostly happens in the hospital. Like when someone is brought in having seizures that cannot be stopped by other means.

P.S. I looked at a couple others and, in fact, they refer to CRITICAL CARE (that takes place in hospital) and emergencies.

 

[thefoodispoison]

Maybe you didn't mishear but rather she misspoke.



Did you even read it? It says, "Pentobarbital is not used widely in clinical medicine because of its poor safety, habituation, and lack of an antidote." That's HUMAN medicine. It would be even less likely to be used in veterinary medicine. This is a Schedule II drug. It is extremely unusual for veterinarians to send Schedule II drugs home with clients, and I'd guess when used in humans it mostly happens in the hospital. Like when someone is brought in having seizures that cannot be stopped by other means.

Did you read the vet-specific source? It's used in animals. It looks like it is for extreme cases but if the dog regularly has seizures that are non-responsive to pheno, I am assuming they want to prescribe a medication to keep the dog from dying when it's not in a hospital setting.

It's entirely possible she misspoke. But also I'm finding evidence that it's not impossible. But I'm not a vet. Are you?

Look, I know we're all depressed, but that doesn't mean we have to be rude know-it-alls online because of the lack of power and autonomy we might feel in our everyday lives.

 

[Cathy Ames]

As a rude know-it-all, my final remark is that I find it reprehensible that you are so keen to steal this medicine that you're convinced has been prescribed to your "friend's" dog out of a dire emergency. [<-If it were true, then that would mean that the dog very much needs it, no?] Some friend you are.

I led off saying this (although more kindly), so I guess I'll finish my unwelcome participation here by repeating it.

 

[Deleted member 31858]

I know that we are all depressed but you have to have a little morality.

It is awful to try to steal medicine from a sick dog.

I think Cathy is not being rude.

I'm not looking to fight but I really hope you reconsider.

 

[Alex6216]

It's probably phenobarbital.
You can kill yourself with this dog medicine but it takes 3-4 days for you to die, you'll be in a coma for the time but during those 4 days you can be saved. It isn't painful or anything and if one were to live alone phenobarbital overdose would be a good way to die since it's basically like N but it takes longer to kill

 

[WanderingWater]

Wow...the Act of Stealing from a four-legged doggo & a Friend~

No matter, how desperate the situation. Potentially!Choosing to place a sentient being in a crisis is a malicious act.

This will come out sideways...
Nothing good will come of this.

Maybe you didn't mishear but rather she misspoke.



Did you even read it? It says, "Pentobarbital is not used widely in clinical medicine because of its poor safety, habituation, and lack of an antidote." That's HUMAN medicine. It would be even less likely to be used in veterinary medicine. This is a Schedule II drug. It is extremely unusual for veterinarians to send Schedule II drugs home with clients, and I'd guess when used in humans it mostly happens in the hospital. Like when someone is brought in having seizures that cannot be stopped by other means.

 

[thefoodispoison]

Y'all are something else, really? Like, our suicides would devastatingly harm all our friends and families, but we are so desperate for peace that we are researching any options we might have for release. And you're all more concerned about a dog, whose owners will be able to get more medicine.

Obviously stealing a dog's medicine is not ideal, but we are given so few choices. The owners would be able to get a refill -- and all I'd have to do is leave a few tablets behind in case there was an emergency before they were able to do that.

And my bigger question that was largely ignored was about having a healthy dog and seeing how easy it might be to fake it. Apparently it seems would not be since I leaned that pento is a last line defense and generally they start with pheno.

 

[TheLastFemaphrodyke]

Y'all are something else, really? Like, our suicides would devastatingly harm all our friends and families, but we are so desperate for peace that we are researching any options we might have for release. And you're all more concerned about a dog, whose owners will be able to get more medicine.

Obviously stealing a dog's medicine is not ideal, but we are given so few choices. The owners would be able to get a refill -- and all I'd have to do is leave a few tablets behind in case there was an emergency before they were able to do that.

And my bigger question that was largely ignored was about having a healthy dog and seeing how easy it might be to fake it. Apparently it seems would not be since I leaned that pento is a last line defense and generally they start with pheno.

YES, the owners MAY be able to get a refill, both drugs are controlled substances, so MAYBE not. Regardless, if the medication is used daily, they will notice it missing and get it replaced if the doctor allows, BUT......IF the medication is used on an emergency basis and the dog goes into a seizure and while the dog is seizing they find the medication is missing/gone, what are they to do then, in the middle of the night, on the weekend when no pharmacies are open? The dog very well may die, but at the very least, will suffer, possibly greatly, as will the frantic owners that canot find their poor pets medication. Yep, your life sucks shit straight outta a diarhea hole, you want to end it, end it, KOREAN or MARINE method, painless, quick, cost of a pair of socks and a roll of duck tape, find a place where you won't be disturbed for at least an hour, leave the poor sick dog alone. Sorry, but I am pissed at your self imposed privilege.

 

[archipelago]

YES, the owners MAY be able to get a refill, both drugs are controlled substances, so MAYBE not. Regardless, if the medication is used daily, they will notice it missing and get it replaced if the doctor allows, BUT......IF the medication is used on an emergency basis and the dog goes into a seizure and while the dog is seizing they find the medication is missing/gone, what are they to do then, in the middle of the night, on the weekend when no pharmacies are open? The dog very well may die, but at the very least, will suffer, possibly greatly, as will the frantic owners that canot find their poor pets medication. Yep, your life sucks shit straight outta a diarhea hole, you want to end it, end it, KOREAN or MARINE method, painless, quick, cost of a pair of socks and a roll of duck tape, find a place where you won't be disturbed for at least an hour, leave the poor sick dog alone. Sorry, but I am pissed at your self imposed privilege.

Worse, the doctor might think the dog owner is abusing it and may not prescribe it anymore. All because of a horribly entitled person who wants to fuck with an innocent animal's medical treatment for a serious neurological disorder. I sincerely hope that the friend never trusts their dog or their home/belongings to this person.

ETA: rescue medications for seizures are often controlled substances. They are NOT easy to replace if you lose some etc. These medications save both people and animals from having prolonged seizures that can cause physical injuries, brain damage or death. People who do not have epilepsy also use them recreationally. I don't care if the meds are in their name, but to steal them from someone who needs them is abhorrent in every way. If I ever found out that a so-called friend stole mine, I would have no problem outing them to others for their actions, and cutting them out of my life completely.

 

[Al Cappella]

Of course you have choices, the fact that you don't like them is not that dog's, or his family's fault. And as much as it may be fun to believe this echo chamber crap—no one is that desperate. Give your head a shake, leave your friend & the dog alone.

 

[Deleted member 31858]

There are many ways to commit suicide. stealing medicine from a sick dog is unethical... I'm not just depressed, I'm in a lot of pain and I would never steal something that a dog needs or a sick person who wants to live.

You don't understand reasons either in a good way or in a bad way. It's just despicable that you think like that. You can find in the PPH and here in SS other forms.

Of course we are going to cause our family and friends pain, but it is not the same as harming a dog that has nothing to do with us!!

They may need it one day when they can't get a prescription or the vet simply prohibits them for abuse as they told you here. If the dog needs pento or pheno, it is because is very sick, since pheno is not used for mild convulsions either.

If you have no compassion and the life of a dog does not matter to you, think that you could get your friends in trouble because a medicine cannot disappear by itself and the veterinarian can think many things.

we will not all be the best people in the world but we must always have limits, just leave them alone please do not give them that way because they are not to blame for your misfortunes.

 

[Foresight]

And you're all more concerned about a dog, whose owners will be able to get more medicine.

If this person is in the United States the owners will struggle to be able to get more medicine until the doses for that prescription is used up. Even with their story of it being stolen, their pet will most likely go without until the days supply for the stolen medication is up. Perhaps someone with more pharmaceutical knowledge could imagine the effect of halting treatment like that suddenly. They could start a police report, but it'll take some effort for any pharmacy to even be allowed to dispense more. It's tracked nationally, they can't go to another place to try to get it again and the vet would be involved as well. I worked in pharmacy for some years. Some medicines are taken much more seriously and pharmacists get tight as well because their license is on the line and federal law enforcement is involved in the tracking. This is just US based regulation though, I can't speak on other countries. It would definitely most likely put a strain on the owners and on the dog's wellbeing.

I know for me, animals have been trusted companions when humans have let me down. Pets are important to people for a reason.

 

[Medicmedic72]

The dog has seizures and they mentioned that he has a prescription for pentobarbital to control them. My first thought was whether I could visit some time and find it, offer to dog-sit or house-sit when they're out of town so I have time to look. I have no idea how much they might have on hand, they probably only get one bottle at a time and especially if it's partially used it would probably not be enough.

It also gave me another thought though, for anyone who has a pet dog -- how easy would it be to fake that your dog has seizures? Would the vet have to witness one before prescribing N? Or could you get it just from describing the experience of a seizure?

I'm willing to be it is phenobarbital, not N.