I feel uncomfortable giving advice to others who want to CBT

[rllysuper]

I've only been on this forum for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'm just not used to people who aren't immediately strongly opposed to the idea of CTB. While I understand what others are going through, I feel uncomfortable giving advice to those who want to CTB. I can't bring myself to help someone find peace in that way because I never want to be responsible for another person's death, even in a minor way. I find myself stuck in a mindset where only I can and should die, but everyone else struggling with suicidal thoughts shouldn't. Does that make me selfish or selfless?

 

[Greyhawk]

I feel you. While I'm kind of pro-choice I fear helping someone who might be acting on an impulse. And even if not, it still feels uncomfortable.

 

[MatrixPrisoner]

That is the beauty of this site. There is little to no sugarcoating things here. We all speak what we believe is the truth. At least our truth. If someone else's truth affects you in a profound way, it's highly likely that it is the real truth.

 

[raskol1980]

For what it's worth: unless you're actively encouraging someone to CTB you're not causing it. One of my best friends in the world left in the most horrific ways I can imagine. Point being, if someone wants to go they will go. By discussing "peaceful" ways of giving advice, I (personally) don't think you're harming anyone - quite the opposite in some cases. But I get your quandary.

 

[Namelesa]

I would say you are selfish as anyone should be able to access the info for methods and use them if that's what they want but you are not obligated to give advice to others. Just let others give advice on methods if you are uncomfortable with it. Its the person that is responsible to use whatever the info you give them to ctb and not you.

 

[raskol1980]

I've only been on this forum for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'm just not used to people who aren't immediately strongly opposed to the idea of CTB. While I understand what others are going through, I feel uncomfortable giving advice to those who want to CTB. I can't bring myself to help someone find peace in that way because I never want to be responsible for another person's death, even in a minor way. I find myself stuck in a mindset where only I can and should die, but everyone else struggling with suicidal thoughts shouldn't. Does that make me selfish or selfless?

You've got to go with your conscience too mate. I'd say you're neither but if you're asking the question then you're likely to have to right motives when/if you give advice.

 

[Fate]

I'm the opposite. I feel that every person should have the right to get a peaceful exit from life. A lot of people are still going to ctb regardless, and I'd rather not have them go out traumatically (Unless they wanted to). It's just merely letting them know that there is options that is relatively peaceful. What they do with the info, is up to them.

 

[The_Hunter]

I've only been on this forum for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'm just not used to people who aren't immediately strongly opposed to the idea of CTB. While I understand what others are going through, I feel uncomfortable giving advice to those who want to CTB. I can't bring myself to help someone find peace in that way because I never want to be responsible for another person's death, even in a minor way. I find myself stuck in a mindset where only I can and should die, but everyone else struggling with suicidal thoughts shouldn't. Does that make me selfish or selfless?

Certainly not. You're not selfish.

I don't provide people advice either. In my own views, I don't wish to bear that responsibility either--I think if they're looking for that info, they can surely find it elsewhere, anyhow.

But if you do feel you're uncomfortable with other people CTB'ng--but not yourself--perhaps you should think more on what you feel and your own reasonings as well.

I've felt that as well, in the past--feeling that ending things is fair enough for me but that others should try to avoid it. I think we have certain psychological tendencies to give ourselves exceptions like that. But that carries the implicit assumption in our own belief that suicide is not preferable; a belief, that if there--should be truly considered and given the validity that all ideas deserve. And thought upon as well, as all worthy propositions be.

You have no obligation to do things you consider morally wrong. I am with you in that camp. Myself, I feel that though some issues are deeply severe, that a perspective change or shift of values/views genuinely can assist a lot of people to make their lives better and more liveable. I wish you the best in life.

- Hunter

 

[ningen_shikkaku]

I find myself stuck in a mindset where only I can and should die, but everyone else struggling with suicidal thoughts shouldn't.

I see how this can be difficult. That last section about "I should be the only one to die, and not others," makes sense. It's like you KNOW there's no hope of recovery for yourself, but for others you see hope. I totally get that, because I feel that way sometimes; rules for me, and not for thee sort of thing.

You've got to go with your conscience too mate. I'd say you're neither but if you're asking the question then you're likely to have to right motives when/if you give advice.

As raskol said, if you're asking these sorts of questions, you've got your heart in the right place imo. It's not like you wish death on others, or wish to take them down with you-- so I can see how your conscience might waver.

I think it's a really comforting aspect of SaSu that people can speak their mind here-- whether it be in the recovery forum, or here. Here, people don't bombard you with "YOU'LL BE OKAY!! YOU CAN GET THROUGH IT!!! LIFE IS WORTH LIVING!!! PLEASE CALL xyz NUMBER" or something-- in fact, I feel like bc people here respond with sympathy and understanding, it is far more effective than what feels like lovebombing to me. They only care to keep me alive for their own ego and moral horse.

Anyway, that's besides the point.

I think you do what feels best for you mate. You have to consider your own feelings, conscience and mental health. I think we speak for everyone here, that you are not obligated to share advice. You are here for your own reasons, after all. This is your choice, and that's what SaSu has always been about. If you do what's best for you, I don't think anyone here will object.

Does that make me selfish or selfless?

Perhaps some people think putting yourself first is selfish, but in this world... I feel many people here have worn themselves out giving and giving. What's so bad about taking every once in a while? So imo, you're not selfish for wanting what's best for you.

 

[areyousafe??]

I feel the same way. There are always instances which I think that I am the exception, for example, life can get better for somebody else (but not for me), or other people shouldn't intentionally hurt themselves (but this doesn't apply to me). I feel bad for giving people advice which will lead them to potentially ctb, because life might improve if they hold on a little longer.

 

[maniac116]

First, welcome to the forum.
You don't have to do anything you aren't comfortable with

 

[ineed2die]

ok then dont give it. I feel uncomfortable after eating food/..

 

[SilentSadness]

You're not obliged to give others ctb advice, so it's up to you. However, everyone has the right to die. Giving advice or support doesn't make you responsible, the responsibility lies with whatever drove them to ctb, even if it's just the existence of suffering.

 

[LostLily]

I've only been on this forum for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'm just not used to people who aren't immediately strongly opposed to the idea of CTB. While I understand what others are going through, I feel uncomfortable giving advice to those who want to CTB. I can't bring myself to help someone find peace in that way because I never want to be responsible for another person's death, even in a minor way. I find myself stuck in a mindset where only I can and should die, but everyone else struggling with suicidal thoughts shouldn't. Does that make me selfish or selfless?

It doesn't make you selfish. This site allows you to be open with your feelings and don't feel pressured to do anything you don't want to do. I also draw a line in advising because I would haunt me if they actually CTB.

 

[hardcorebisnis]

it's not selfish, all advice on methods is easily searchable on here anyways, i feel like if someone wanted to, they'd take the time to lurk and educate themselves, that's what i did for ages before making an account on here

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Yeah, it is selfish though you aren't obligated to give any advice. Personally though, I'm the opposite so if I could give any information that I know on suicide methods, I would. I never really had this mindset of "I'll feel guilty for helping somebody kill themselves" as, firstly, just merely giving out information to somebody about a suicide isn't really what caused them to ctb as they still have to decide what to do alone, have to prepare for the method alone, have to execute the method alone etc. Also, I don't really see death as something which is bad for the being who is dead but the dying process for most suicide methods is certainly brutal so I'd rather have people take the most peaceful suicide method that they can access. I never understood those who get guilty over helping others ctb even if it's in a small way but that's just me I suppose

 

[astr4]

i mean it's a valid sentiment and i understand the motivation behind it. at the same time, i always imagine the worst case scenario where the person making the post is feeling reckless and impulsive. i would rather they have all the information they need to ctb safely rather than potentially risk them hurting themselves permanently.

help doesn't have to look like "do xyz, and ignore your fear, don't be scared." you don't have to encourage anyone to do anything. you shouldn't encourage anyone to do anything. for me, i might not be comfortable telling someone "oh you should hang yourself or try sn or carbon monoxide" or something, but i might share an fyi "hey the LD50 of this is 30mg" or so on.

also there are people who's suicidality is lessened once they have access to a method, because they actually feel like they have some control over their lives now.

 

[NoPoint2Life]

I get it. Me and my one and only friend in real life actually met when we were both inpatient after attempts.
A couple of months ago she was in a bad place and making comments about how she wanted to attempt again. I hate being a hypocrite for anything. But of course, I was all freaked out and even asked her if she was safe and continued to worry about her. If she says anything again, I plan to tell her that I have researched online and overdosing is not the way to do it and try to explain that it is all harder than she realizes.
My mom is going through major health problems right now and the other night she started crying and say she just wanted to lay down and die. I had no clue what to say or do because it's not like I endorse living on a good day!
Most methods here honestly seem too complicated for me. So I would never be comfortable giving any direct advice. But even knowing how I feel and how other people here feel it still feels weird and it depends what kind of mood I am in and how helpful I want to be like telling somebody not to OD or something because it's high risk.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I doubt many of us are experts in one or more suicide methods so, on the face of it, probably very few of us are qualified to be able to advise others on actually how to do it. A lot of the time, I wonder if we're just regurgitating what we've already read on here. So, in that way, not advising people isn't exactly witholding information from them. It's encouraging them to look at the source material here themselves. Which I think can only be a good thing.

Why leave it to regurgitated, maybe half remembered interpretations of the source material? So- I don't think there needs to be pressure to provide method information that's already here. A lot of the time I avoid method specific threads because I don't feel knowledgeable enough to respond.

Also- questions like: 'How should I kill myself?' shouldn't actually be asked here at all. We can't be expected to make such a decision for another person. Either whether they should kill themselves (in my opinion, they shouldn't if they need other people to tell them what to do,) or, how to do it. All methods carry risk and, assisting a suicide is illegal in a lot of countries. I think it's too much to even expect others to advise on such things. The megathreads about methods are here for people to be able to make an informed decision on which suits them best.

As for who is justified to have ideation and act on it. I'm not sure it's exactly hypocritical for you to feel as you do. Part of it may be well meaning caution. We simply can't fully tell what sort of state someone is in on here. It's hard to relate our whole life history/ experience. The way our brains work, if they still even can be changed. How much hope we have left. To wish death on everyone to me seems more disturbing! I guess it makes sense from a promortalist point of view but only a handful of members are promortalist.

Maybe it's that you're pro-choice but with a pro-life bias. In that- it's worthwhile for people to make their best effort at recovery before choosing to exit. But then- maybe it would be good to figure out why it's ok for you to reject recovery but, not others. Would your reasons seem justified to all?

Really though- I think you're probably just feeling concerned thinking: 'I hope you're sure about this.' I probably also think that a lot when I see goodbye threads. I suppose ultimately, it's the: 'Is there another way? Could they have lived to overcome whatever it was?'

But then- even if they could, I think the more important question is: Should they be obliged to- even if they didn't want to? It maybe depends on their situation. Those with dependents (especially children,) I tend to think probably should make more effort to try. Those free though- who are they trying for? Not themselves anymore. Is that even sustainable?

Plus, I'll openly admit that I'm selfish. I have to remind myself that I'm pro-choice and if I do truly care about someone, I should want what's best for them. If their life is mostly suffering with no hope left in them for improvement, I can't justifiably wish that for them. I'll miss them though- if they made my life that little bit brighter for a time. Selfishly, I'll want them around still for my sake but I know that's unreasonable to expect that of them.

 

[rllysuper]

For what it's worth: unless you're actively encouraging someone to CTB you're not causing it. One of my best friends in the world left in the most horrific ways I can imagine. Point being, if someone wants to go they will go. By discussing "peaceful" ways of giving advice, I (personally) don't think you're harming anyone - quite the opposite in some cases. But I get your quandary.

I think I understand. I guess if a person's mindset is already set on CTBing, they'll likely find a way regardless. I'm sorry about your friend--No one should go out that way.

 

[sximii]

Yes I get it. I have that too. If it's a person I closely know I'll feel uncomfortable the same way. But giving advice is different from actively encouraging or telling someone to do it, which goes against the pro choice philosophy as well and is just wildly toxic. If someone is set on it, they'll likely find a way even without you telling them. I understand what you mean though

 

[rllysuper]

I would say you are selfish as anyone should be able to access the info for methods and use them if that's what they want but you are not obligated to give advice to others. Just let others give advice on methods if you are uncomfortable with it. Its the person that is responsible to use whatever the info you give them to ctb and not you.

That's true--I guess I just can't live with the idea of someone dying because I helped them to. Although I get that saying nothing wouldn't make a difference if that someone is determined to die.

I don't provide people advice either. In my own views, I don't wish to bear that responsibility either--I think if they're looking for that info, they can surely find it elsewhere, anyhow.

But if you do feel you're uncomfortable with other people CTB'ng--but not yourself--perhaps you should think more on what you feel and your own reasonings as well.

I've felt that as well, in the past--feeling that ending things is fair enough for me but that others should try to avoid it. I think we have certain psychological tendencies to give ourselves exceptions like that. But that carries the implicit assumption in our own belief that suicide is not preferable; a belief, that if there--should be truly considered and given the validity that all ideas deserve. And thought upon as well, as all worthy propositions be.

You have no obligation to do things you consider morally wrong. I am with you in that camp. Myself, I feel that though some issues are deeply severe, that a perspective change or shift of values/views genuinely can assist a lot of people to make their lives better and more liveable. I wish you the best in life.

Thank you. This made me really start to think about things, and I really, truly appreciate it.

It's like you KNOW there's no hope of recovery for yourself, but for others you see hope. I totally get that, because I feel that way sometimes; rules for me, and not for thee sort of thing.

Exactly, I couldn't have put it better myself. It's difficult to know exactly what other people are dealing with, so it's much easier to think that they can eventually overcome it.
Honestly compared to others on this forum, my problems aren't as catastrophic, so how does it make any sense that they live and I die? I'm not sure.

I think it's a really comforting aspect of SaSu that people can speak their mind here-- whether it be in the recovery forum, or here. Here, people don't bombard you with "YOU'LL BE OKAY!! YOU CAN GET THROUGH IT!!! LIFE IS WORTH LIVING!!! PLEASE CALL xyz NUMBER" or something-- in fact, I feel like bc people here respond with sympathy and understanding, it is far more effective than what feels like lovebombing to me. They only care to keep me alive for their own ego and moral horse.

Haha, yeah. I feel like those sorts of comments are so empty because it doesn't actually acknowledge people's circumstances. Saying "Life is worth living!" is too vague and too generic to actually help anybody. Like you've said, SaSu is probably the only forum where people are genuinely understanding of comments expressing SI.
For that I'm thankful that I can be so transparent on here.

I think you do what feels best for you mate. You have to consider your own feelings, conscience and mental health. I think we speak for everyone here, that you are not obligated to share advice. You are here for your own reasons, after all. This is your choice, and that's what SaSu has always been about. If you do what's best for you, I don't think anyone here will object.

Perhaps some people think putting yourself first is selfish, but in this world... I feel many people here have worn themselves out giving and giving. What's so bad about taking every once in a while? So imo, you're not selfish for wanting what's best for you.

Thank you, it's nice to know that there are others on the same page as me.

 

[raskol1980]

I think I understand. I guess if a person's mindset is already set on CTBing, they'll likely find a way regardless. I'm sorry about your friend--No one should go out that way.

Thanks, she was the only person I 00% trust, just REAL if you get me, I admire her strength but wish she knew an easier way. The little I heard, it was not quick and definitely not painless. I miss her a lot

 

[SomethingOriginal]

I've only been on this forum for a couple of weeks, so maybe I'm just not used to people who aren't immediately strongly opposed to the idea of CTB. While I understand what others are going through, I feel uncomfortable giving advice to those who want to CTB. I can't bring myself to help someone find peace in that way because I never want to be responsible for another person's death, even in a minor way. I find myself stuck in a mindset where only I can and should die, but everyone else struggling with suicidal thoughts shouldn't. Does that make me selfish or selfless?

I don't think many people would see this as selfish. I wouldn't want a hand in someone else's death either. I think you probably just have empathy for people and are thinking about it deeply. In my view, once you're gone, it's nothing, like going into a dreamless sleep. There is not necessarily peace, no concept of ending of suffering, just nothing. I want to help someone feel better, even if just temporarily because once they make that decision, there might be no going back, no relief that they are seeking (who knows?). You don't know if it's going to work and you might end up much worse off (a vegetable, brain damaged etc). There are consequences to death for families. You'd never know if that life could have been valuable. The same goes for the difference between someone brain-damaged and their pre-attempt self if they had not gone through with said attempt. There are lots of variables. Also, who says your definition of a valuable life would be the same as someone else's and who decides whose definition is 'correct'. (Of course, some won't be valid) There's just a lot of unknowns. Just because you don't define your life as valuable doesn't mean other people don't and you might be wrong. You might see problems as inescapable or something you cannot get through even though you actually can. I think a lot of people on here probably wrestle with these thoughts, but most thinking this way are in a lot of pain both physical and/or mental. I think a lot of people are on here to feel like they are not alone/ are doing some good.

 

[atrophy]

Morality is subjective. That's what you believe is right and that's your choice.

I believe everyone deserves a peaceful way to go. People who want to CTB will find some way to do so and can get desperate, at the end choosing a violent way to go.

Withholding information and resources just hurts them in a broader sense than feeling guilty over your involvement in someone's passing.

 

[Aergia]

Does that make me selfish or selfless?

It makes you human

 

[Jadeith]

. Does that make me selfish or selfless?

I'd say it's an effect of social imprint. We're supposed to protect the others' life at all costs. That's what we were taught all our life. That life itself (especially human life) is sacred and to be preserved. My first impulse towards others was always to help them "get better" not to end themselves. But, as my attitude towards myself changed, so has the perspective on the whole thing. Not everyone wants to be helped, not everyone wants to be saved, not everyone CAN be saved so it is not my place to tell them what's best for them. If someone wants to vent or needs few words of encouragement ("Recovery" part of the forum) - I will provide as best as I can. But if they decide to go - that's their choice, i feel obliged to respect that, even if not always agree with that and i will provide access to whatever knowledge on the subject i might have hoping that others would do the same for me.

 

[Can’tbearanything]

Hey just my two cents here but if you're uncomfortable with it then listen to your gut and do what feels right for you. Absolutely no need to pressure yourself to do anything that you are not feeling up to doing.

If it helps I am also on another suicide forum where we don't discuss methods with each other… being on both helps me to find a bit of balance in my perspective, in terms of different ways of approaching conversations around suicide as well as helping me to figure out what approaches feel best/most supportive in different situations… both for me and others.

 

[AuroraB]

i also don't want to "give advice" but i will share the own methods i have in my apartment for when the time is right. in terms of not "giving advice," i personally don't want to get arrested.

 

[crocune]

Even though I'm probably going to ctb, I don't recommend people do it unless they've exhausted their options of going to a doctor and getting diagnosed or taking medication, especially if they're still young. In fact it makes me so mad when someone comes here posting their problems and people just reply with "I hope u find peace" basically telling them to ctb before trying anything else.

Both living and dying is daunting, and changing your momentum is the most daunting. You WILL traumatise the people left behind and though once you've done it, it's technically no longer your problem since your consciousness has ceased to exist, you've got to be a giant asshole or your suffering so great that you disregard everyone who loves you in your life.