I both like and dislike the fact this site exists

[Nothing………………….]

I realise virtually nobody is going to agree with me but I'm interested about you guys opinions on this regardless. Im glad this site exists for the fact that it allows a unique place where you're not judged for being suicidal. I think the fact that it provides more painless ways to CTB is actually great. I also think this site is good for the fact it allows people to vent, as well as find like minded people, especially since suicide is such a taboo topic usually. It feels like on paper this site existing is just fine.
The thing I dislike about this site existing is its capacity to influence people negatively (I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it but bear with me). I wouldn't really ever consider myself suicidal, not that I would consider myself 'pro life' either, but I'm not really suicidal. That being said, after spending quite a bit of time on this site for the past few days I found myself seriously considering CTB for the first time in years. That happening might say more about me than it does about the site, but it still kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I can't help but think that people who would've never truly considered CTB or had the nerve to do it were driven to it by this site.

so basically I cant decide wether I'd rather this site does exist, or it doesn't.

 

[IHurtTheOneILove]

Agreed, I feel like when this is put in the wrong hands it can influence non-CTB considering people negatively. That's the double-edged sword about harm reduction websites in general though.

 

[beelzebul]

I see where you're coming from, but your actions are your responsibility. If you feel like a site is unhealthy for you, it's up to you to stop visiting it.

This site has valuable information for people that want to ctb. Information that can prevent people's attempts (that they would make regardless of whether or not the site exists) from ending catastrophically. I would be devastated if it were to close down.

 

[Nothing………………….]

I see where you're coming from, but your actions are your responsibility. If you feel like a site is unhealthy for you, it's up to you to stop visiting it.

This site has valuable information for people that want to ctb. Information that can prevent people's attempts (that they would make regardless of whether or not the site exists) from ending catastrophically. I would be devastated if it were to close down.

This isn't just referencing me, I'm fine and I know that I'll continue to be fine on this site. I'm more worried about more impressionable people, especially younger people who don't know any better, who will be influenced more heavily than I was but won't be able to recognise that this site is the issue.

but I also agree with you, I think it would suck if this site closes down, for the reasons I said in my original post.

 

[Sleeper System]

There is a saying that goes "Guns don't kill people. People kill people. "

This site is just a tool. How it's used is up to the individual.
The information and content of this site is just knowledge.
Personal accountability and responsibility still applies.
Your environment can and will effect you so you have to have the presence of thought and awareness to know when you are being influenced.

The intention of site is noble but like any good thing it can be warped and twisted into something it's not. Gotta be careful.

 

[Nothing………………….]

There is a saying that goes "Guns don't kill people. People kill people. "

This site is just a tool. How it's used is up to the individual.
The information and content of this site is just knowledge.
Personal accountability and responsibility still applies.
Your environment can and will effect you so you have to have the presence of thought and awareness to know when you are being influenced.

The intention of site is noble but like any good thing it can be warped and twisted into something it's not. Gotta be careful.

Guns are actually a pretty good analogy. Guns don't cause gun crime, but gun crime is certainly a side effect of their existence, so you could just ban guns, but guns allow for self defence. The same applies in a very similar way to this site.

I agree that in a perfect world everyone has the presence of mind and self awareness to realise that going on sites like these is harmful to themselves, but that's just not the case. So would that make it their fault? If not then whose fault is it? I have no clue.

 

[Gonnerr]

I think it saves more people in the end.

 

[lostinmythoughts]

I don't think this site encourages suicides in any way! I'm here but none encouraged me to kms or it's not motivating! I can talk to a group of toxic people on online game and get bullied to suicide so this fact is not true! You're prob more suicidal because you are it has nothing to do with this site

 

[jbear824]

You can say that about literally anything. The Internet in general ffs. And thankfully it's not your decision if this site exists or not. And your perceptions do not equal facts.

 

[Nothing………………….]

You can say that about literally anything. The Internet in general ffs. And thankfully it's not your decision if this site exists or not. And your perceptions do not equal facts.

Technically you can say that about anything but with most things its negligible, life and death is much more serious than most other things. And im not saying the site should be shut down, the whole point of my post is that I dont know, if anything I provided much more reasons for why the site should stay up. And I know my perception does not equal facts, I made a reference to that fact in the original post.

 

[Gonnerr]

I can only say its the only social media with no trolls, no bullies, that's something isn't.

 

[Nothing………………….]

I think it saves more people in the end.

How does it save people? Do you mean in the sense that they dont have to suffer when they CTB?

 

[Gonnerr]

It saved me for now and i think im not alone, coming here to vent is better then calling a suicide hotline, almost everybody here knows that.

When the site goes down , suicidality of everybody goes up , look at the comments when the site comes back online.

Suicide hotline dont understand us , suicidal people do and that's very important. No trolls here , no bullies only nice suicidal people.

 

[Nothing………………….]

I don't think this site encourages suicides in any way! I'm here but none encouraged me to kms or it's not motivating! I can talk to a group of toxic people on online game and get bullied to suicide so this fact is not true! You're prob more suicidal because you are it has nothing to do with this site

Im not suicidal at all, when I say the site made me consider suicide it was only really passingly, but enough to make me realise it could be an issue that some have. And while I agree that the site never encourages ctb directly, its very common for ctb to be praised. Additionally the idea that life overall is bad, and anyone who thinks otherwise is wierd is also pretty common. Then there are the users who take this to the extreme, going as far as to glorify ctb, and suggest that life is only suffering with no benefits.

It saved me for now and i think im not alone, coming here to vent is better then calling a suicide hotline, almost everybody here knows that.

When the site goes down , suicidality of everybody goes up , look at the comments when the site comes back online.

Suicide hotline dont understand us , suicidal people do and that's very important. No trolls here , no bullies only nice suicidal people.

I guess that makes sense, but we have no real statistics on wether it hurts or benefits more people, so we cant really draw any real conclusions from that.

 

[Ash’Girl]

This kind of feels like when some kid goes homicidal and kills half their classmates, the media will say things like "he was a troubled young man, gothic in appearance, who listened to death metal songs and whose favourite movies were the Saw franchise".

Indicating it's the music, or movies…. Or video games, or peer pressure, or in the last two decades internet sites, that heavily influenced the behaviour.

I watched horror movies from the age of about 8. I read horror books - adult horror novels - from a similar age. I've been a gamer my whole life. I've never murdered anyone. I've never even punched anyone.

My point is that no matter what information you are exposed to or have access to, you still make choices. You have autonomy.

I still think it's better that this site exists because the impressionable tend to be impulsive and that impulsivity tends to be not particularly thought out. Here there are many cautionary tails about impulsive acts gone wrong which can make people reconsider.

Anyways, as with every space on the internet, you have people with strong views. It's like religious zealots vs people who quietly live their own faith or lack thereof but don't impose it on others vs people who argue vehemently that religion is bollocks.

Or politics. Or gun laws. Or drug use. Anything really but the more contentious topics bring out more…. I'd like to say debate, but a lot of people these days don't understand informed debate and preach their way as THE way.

Anyway, we all know minors shouldn't be on here but the internet has taken over the world, there's little to nothing you can't find in terms of content, and it's not up to us to police that. We try our best to keep kids out, and many people here encourage waiting, thinking through your decision, and trying different things to improve one's situation where possible before making the final act, especially with new members.

Then there is the recovery section. Which I don't frequent much but seems to be full of people supporting and encouraging each other to live. So the site to me is pretty balanced.

 

[new2blue]

Im not suicidal at all, when I say the site made me consider suicide it was only really passingly, but enough to make me realise it could be an issue that some have. And while I agree that the site never encourages ctb directly, its very common for ctb to be praised. Additionally the idea that life overall is bad, and anyone who thinks otherwise is wierd is also pretty common. Then there are the users who take this to the extreme, going as far as to glorify ctb, and suggest that life is only suffering with no benefits.

I guess that makes sense, but we have no real statistics on wether it hurts or benefits more people, so we cant really draw any real conclusions from that.

I suppose thats the spectrum of viewpoints at work. This website is on the edge of a cliff, as are its users. No one is sure if they will eventually jump, until they are. Websites such as this may always exist, supply and demand and all that. I am a hopeful person by nature, that is not to say I dont often feel hopeless.

There is a danger to everything. The biggest danger of this site is it may influence someone in ways they wouldnt be otherwise. That being said, it also provides a community of people who can discuss life and death frankly, without judgement. I find myself thinking less and less about suicide, and more about the comfort of knowing there is options if I need them and people I can be honest with.

Its a risk assessment we all must make. I for one will always encourage people to reflect deeply on any personal choice and consider all the options.

 

[february in alaska]

I know how you feel. Ultimately, I think it's good to have a site like this, since when you compare it to the heaping ton of pro-life websites, hotlines, anti-suicide propaganda (for lack of a better word lol) in the rest of our society, SaSu's existence doesn't even begin to tip the scales. And for the most part, is pro-choice anyway.

If we lived in a world where you didn't chance the risk of being institutionalized just for talking about your own suicidal thoughts, if we lived in a world where adults could choose to peacefully leave when they wanted to, if we lived in a world that wasn't so broken and didn't actively drive people to be suicidal by making life a living hell.... well, then SaSu wouldn't have a reason to exist in the first place. It's a product of people who are suffering needing a place to find peace. So for the world we live in, this site feels like a sanctuary.

 

[Nothing………………….]

This kind of feels like when some kid goes homicidal and kills half their classmates, the media will say things like "he was a troubled young man, gothic in appearance, who listened to death metal songs and whose favourite movies were the Saw franchise".

Indicating it's the music, or movies…. Or video games, or peer pressure, or in the last two decades internet sites, that heavily influenced the behaviour.

I watched horror movies from the age of about 8. I read horror books - adult horror novels - from a similar age. I've been a gamer my whole life. I've never murdered anyone. I've never even punched anyone.

My point is that no matter what information you are exposed to or have access to, you still make choices. You have autonomy.

I still think it's better that this site exists because the impressionable tend to be impulsive and that impulsivity tends to be not particularly thought out. Here there are many cautionary tails about impulsive acts gone wrong which can make people reconsider.

Anyways, as with every space on the internet, you have people with strong views. It's like religious zealots vs people who quietly live their own faith or lack thereof but don't impose it on others vs people who argue vehemently that religion is bollocks.

Or politics. Or gun laws. Or drug use. Anything really but the more contentious topics bring out more…. I'd like to say debate, but a lot of people these days don't understand informed debate and preach their way as THE way.

Anyway, we all know minors shouldn't be on here but the internet has taken over the world, there's little to nothing you can't find in terms of content, and it's not up to us to police that. We try our best to keep kids out, and many people here encourage waiting, thinking through your decision, and trying different things to improve one's situation where possible before making the final act, especially with new members.

Then there is the recovery section. Which I don't frequent much but seems to be full of people supporting and encouraging each other to live. So the site to me is pretty balanced.

I agree with you other than the first 2 paragraphs. This is not at all the same as any other form of media. I would go as far as to say that SaSu is hardly like many other websites out there, because of how taboo suicide as a whole is.

 

[Scythe]

This site has to stay, it gives people like us a place to talk without risking our friendships, relationships, being locked up or whatever. Even after right to die is legalized, and involuntary hospilzation removed, this site has to stay imo. Since at the end of the day, this is a support group. Gloomy group, but it keeps some people alive and sane enough to survive.

Also, I don't think this site isn't really for people who's not messed up. Although, I don't personally mind people like you here, you are definently not the target audience of the site. It is a depressing site, but it cheers me up to see that there's people going through worse. There's so many ppl out there going through tough shit. I believe people who have problems also torlerate this site more than people who don't. Since most kind of have to build up tolerance due to life being shit.

The last thing is, I doubt just seeing other ppl suffer will make someone go from being non suicidal to actually attempting suicide. In the end, it's not their pain. There's also already a lot of depressing things on the internet, we won't be the first, we won't be the last. It doesn't really matter at the end of the day right? Whether we add to it or not.

 

[penguinl0v3s]

There is a saying that goes "Guns don't kill people. People kill people. "

This site is just a tool. How it's used is up to the individual.
The information and content of this site is just knowledge.
Personal accountability and responsibility still applies.
Your environment can and will effect you so you have to have the presence of thought and awareness to know when you are being influenced.

The intention of site is noble but like any good thing it can be warped and twisted into something it's not. Gotta be careful.

I think that saying is unsuitable given that the most successful and biggest suicide prevention method is limiting access to means, aka firearm restriction.

It just makes logical sense to me that people shouldn't be able to have dangerous weapons unchecked. Not everyone using a dangerous weapon is making an informed decision. You wouldn't give a toddler a gun and then say "ah well he/she shouldn't have shot themselves" when they accidentally blow their head off fooling around with it. Not comparing SaSu users to toddlers, but there are definitely dumb children who will do something dumb with the knowledge that they have, and you can't really hold them accountable for that when they're not even fully developed. Someone should act as the responsible adult in the situation.

The thing I dislike about this site existing is its capacity to influence people negatively (I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it but bear with me).

People on this thread seem to be talking as if everyone is responsible for their own decisions, and it seems like they forget that impressionable children with underdeveloped brains have access to this site, given that it's open access o the public. So we're really not just about adults, which is where I see the problem lying.

 

[abouttosuicide]

There is a saying that goes "Guns don't kill people. People kill people. "

This site is just a tool. How it's used is up to the individual.
The information and content of this site is just knowledge.
Personal accountability and responsibility still applies.
Your environment can and will effect you so you have to have the presence of thought and awareness to know when you are being influenced.

The intention of site is noble but like any good thing it can be warped and twisted into something it's not. Gotta be careful.

Perfectly said! I agree with every word said

 

[Forever Sleep]

It's a fair point. May I ask how you found the site? Tantacrul's YouTube video perhaps? That's what troubles me. Before that video, I think most people found this site because they were looking for methods. They were actively suicidal in other words. I reckon quite a number of us had done the mental gymnastics to realise that 1.) We wanted to be dead. 2.) We'd consider doing it ourselves. 3.) We had come to the conclusion that we had the right to do it and were pro-choice.

Now though, there seems to be a whole mix and a huge amount of young adults and possibly minors- worryingly. People sort of unhappy but not suicidal as such. Some people are just curious. What's kind of distressing is that they obviously can't find alternative areas of the internet to interact that give them the same sense of belonging.

I agree- I don't think this is the best place if you aren't sure of what you want. Not that people will try and talk you in to suicide but by it's very nature- this place is one where hope doesn't really abound. Someone feeling negative likely will feel more comfortable being surrounded by negativity. The whole 'misery loves company', echochamber effect. I don't know how much that would have affected me when I was that age. At that age- I was actually very focussed on college, uni, a career.

What troubles me the most is the whole lack of hope thing. It's hard to give someone else hope when you feel suicidal yourself. It feels hypocritical. Plus- we don't know if it's false hope we're giving them. We don't really know their situation. So- a lot of us won't. Plus- some that do are called out for being too pro-life and belittling their suffering. So yeah- I don't think it's maybe the best environment for everyone.

That all said- I think most people- even the younger adults can sense that. I've known quite a few members self ban because they realised this wasn't the best place for them. I think everyone does need to take responsibility for themselves to do that and I'd say- everyone I've come into contact with seems competent enough to know their own mind and recognise how outside influences affect it- so they should be doing that if that's the case.

 

[pthnrdnojvsc]

Suffering for a long while is what causes a person to become suicidal not reading a few posts on a website. But of course the media like the ny times and prolifers would like everyone to believe a website causes people to become suicidal so they can get this site shut down

I totally disagree with with this . I think a human needs hours per day of the correct kind of mental training to have a mindset shift. For example many people here have been suicidal for more than 10 years, thinking about suicide every day a lot and still haven't been able to defeat si.

This is the false argument that the ny times and prolifers say to try to get this site shut down. A website doesn't cause suicide nor causes a person to become suicidal.. It's the suffering in life that causes a person to consider suicide and to do it.

 

[Leavesfromthevine]

I agree with the sentiment that it depends a lot on how you found the site. People who are just curious are probably more likely to be negatively influenced by this site.
However people like myself who was looking for methods and just researching suicide in general this place has more of a positive affect or at the very least some help and answers.
Although it needs to be remembered that each person is different and I said a lot of generalizations.

 

[BlockHammer]

I understood your point, allowed me to gave you my perspective. The fact that this site exist means that there's a lot of people who's freedom has been rob also considering normies thought about suicide in every forum makes this forum appealing.

The only way to eradicate this site in the right way is to actually to do something about their life like example gave suicidal people a better system that will pay them fairly, change society perspective regarding their takes on a certain quality of human (looks, income etc). Those are some of the biggest problem that a lot of suicidal people facing, and again, what's the change that the thing i mention is going to be true? It might be 0,00001%

The point is, this site are going to exist as long as mental health problem exist, pro-life can delete this site as much as they want, but it wiĺl be a worthless battle as long as they didn't eradicate the root cause

 

[Little_Suzy]

I realise virtually nobody is going to agree with me but I'm interested about you guys opinions on this regardless. Im glad this site exists for the fact that it allows a unique place where you're not judged for being suicidal. I think the fact that it provides more painless ways to CTB is actually great. I also think this site is good for the fact it allows people to vent, as well as find like minded people, especially since suicide is such a taboo topic usually. It feels like on paper this site existing is just fine.
The thing I dislike about this site existing is its capacity to influence people negatively (I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it but bear with me). I wouldn't really ever consider myself suicidal, not that I would consider myself 'pro life' either, but I'm not really suicidal. That being said, after spending quite a bit of time on this site for the past few days I found myself seriously considering CTB for the first time in years. That happening might say more about me than it does about the site, but it still kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I can't help but think that people who would've never truly considered CTB or had the nerve to do it were driven to it by this site.

so basically I cant decide wether I'd rather this site does exist, or it doesn't.

You've admitted that you're not suicidal. We are not lab rats for your pleasure, nor do we owe you an explanation for why we are here.

If you suspect this website is causing you harm, click the "Quick Exit" link.

We don't know who you are, so we have no way of stopping you from logging into your account and reading SaSu's content.

Don't blame us; instead, accept responsibility for your own conduct and deactivate your account.

You are passing judgment while infiltrating a CTB Support Group! This is precisely the mindset of pro-lifers!

 

[rozeske]

I personally don't hate that this site exists. As the name indicates this is a site related to suicide, I believe anyone who is not suicidal shouldn't even be here in the first place. simple as that. For those (to use OP's word of choice) "not really suicidal" Individuals there is a recovery section if they are looking for help to recover and give life another chance. Many do find it helpful and after recovery permanently logoff from this site.There also is a suicidal discussion section in which members use to discuss and vent all things suicide freely with out any judgement and risk of consequence. Which I believe is quite therapeutic and better than having this discussion with a loved one and end up upsetting them or worse ending up in a psychiatric ward. There also is suicide methods section that alot more other members including myself came here looking for. Instead of half assing a suicide attempt just to fail miserably I find this section to be quite helpful to make a well informed decision.

 

[Rhizomorph1]

I realise virtually nobody is going to agree with me but I'm interested about you guys opinions on this regardless. Im glad this site exists for the fact that it allows a unique place where you're not judged for being suicidal. I think the fact that it provides more painless ways to CTB is actually great. I also think this site is good for the fact it allows people to vent, as well as find like minded people, especially since suicide is such a taboo topic usually. It feels like on paper this site existing is just fine.
The thing I dislike about this site existing is its capacity to influence people negatively (I'm not sure if that's the right way to put it but bear with me). I wouldn't really ever consider myself suicidal, not that I would consider myself 'pro life' either, but I'm not really suicidal. That being said, after spending quite a bit of time on this site for the past few days I found myself seriously considering CTB for the first time in years. That happening might say more about me than it does about the site, but it still kinda rubbed me the wrong way. I can't help but think that people who would've never truly considered CTB or had the nerve to do it were driven to it by this site.

so basically I cant decide wether I'd rather this site does exist, or it doesn't.

I also experience a lot of ambivalence towards this site. I think it is a normal feeling/concern.

The conclusion I've come to after much meditation and deliberation is that the website serves a function that is well needed and does overall more good than harm, but a lot more safeguards, oversight, and capacity resources are needed for it to achieve its goals (reduce harm, including emotional harm or the risk of serious injury from certain methods/practices) effectively and safely.

But until the stigma of suicide ends and the rest of society starts taking end of life care for voluntary dying seriously, we won't see those safeguards or capacity met due to practical limitations of the underground.

I can't really blame those running this site since they're just doing their best within the limitations imposed on them by prohibitionists (what many call "pro-lifers" although I've grown to dislike that term too because it has evolved to simply represent a very generalized out-group prejudice/scapegoat on this site; I'm not sure many really have a standardized nor meaningful definition for it). They're in a really rough spot and it's really unfair the way the site and Rain/the mods are targeted and misrepresented by the media.

I wish there was a trained, harm-reductive, person-centered, compassion club style model where people who will inevitably ctb on their own terms could have psycho-social-spiritual support in dying with people trained in neutral pro-choice language. People who could advise people on the benefits and risks of different methods and provide companionship without necessarily assisting in the procedure of suicide itself.

The cultural influence of this website seems apparent to me, even if there's no way to prove it (as @RainAndSadness has claimed to me) or disprove it.

I'd love to see research on this topic too but doubt that will happen due to the aforementioned practical limitations to resources/capacity... it's possible the (fairly under-utilized) recovery section and sense of community solidarity has a net positive but this also has yet to be empirically evaluated so it's impossible to say. All we can do is reliably speculate that there is reasonably some effect from this culture. The magnitude of the effect is the real question.

It's frustrating as hell when we're all just left to our own – dying – devices trying to figure it out and the rest of society can't even fathom having the hard conversation around the right to die. They're having enough trouble as it is with the conversation around MAID for people who obviously can consent and have oftentimes terminal illnesses...

"The facts are always friendly" - Carl Rogers

I think both sides of the coin are not 100% aligned with the facts. However, I think the prohibitionist side of the coin is far less aligned with the facts, as most of them just take prohibitionist rhetoric for granted. At least the pro-choice perspectives on this forum are actively engaged and critical about the topic, even if the culture may be overly cynical/biased at times.

/Vent

 

[Kit1]

Okay. I am going to be blatantly honest here. Everywhere I turned to for help, I got rejected - sooner or later. Therapists turned their back on me saying that I was a suicide risk and my issues are too complex etc. My GP and surgery (NHS) turned their back on me when they refused to acknowledge my accessibility challenges to accessing their services - and this one particular GP had kept me alive till the end of August 2023. I joined this site a few weeks ago and the reality is that I might have ended my life by now if I didn't have this support. I am seeing a therapist on the NHS and as the sessions are limited, they are coming to an end and after that, I have mo medic to turn tonfoe support.

If I end my life it will negatively impact my children. That is why I am here - essentially to try and keep myself alive for their sake. I know that I am fighting a losing battle as the chances are that I would probably have dissociated when I end my life - interestingly I was known to contact my GP even when I was in a dissociative state and that pattern of behaviour has stopped (probably because I erased the number from my phone contacts). Indirectly this site is helping my children by ensuring that they have their mum.

I wish this site didn't exist. I wish all of us who are here due to our challenging circumstances did not have to battle with life or death, pain or survival etc. But our pain, fighting to live or die, fighting to just breathe - for one reason or the other, our lives have become part of the "outside " group in the world. We also need a safe place. The site moderators are trying their best to ensure that young people aged 18 are kept away from the site. I recognise that there are people who have particular vulnerabilities or are easily influenced will be better staying away from this site - but the collective vulnerability of other site users such as myself also need a place to try and deal with our pain, grief etc. There will always be risks - but by shutting this site down, are we really condemning those of us reliant for support to stay alive (but realistically knowing that we will probably end our lives as there isn't any support available out there) to end our lives prematurely? For those who do end their lives, are we going to condemn them to end their lives alone, lonely and with no one to talk to during their last moments? What happens to the human right nd humanity for the users that benefit from this site? I will leave them to you to answer.

 

[Nothing………………….]

You've admitted that you're not suicidal. We are not lab rats for your pleasure, nor do we owe you an explanation for why we are here.

If you suspect this website is causing you harm, click the "Quick Exit" link.

We don't know who you are, so we have no way of stopping you from logging into your account and reading SaSu's content.

Don't blame us; instead, accept responsibility for your own conduct and deactivate your account.

You are passing judgment while infiltrating a CTB Support Group! This is precisely the mindset of pro-lifers!

Ive already responded to people saying things similar to this, if you're going to disagree with me thats fine, but if you care enough to make a reply (a fairly insulting one at that) about it then please do the courtesy of reading the other stuff that's been said here first.

Suffering for a long while is what causes a person to become suicidal not reading a few posts on a website. But of course the media like the ny times and prolifers would like everyone to believe a website causes people to become suicidal so they can get this site shut down

I totally disagree with with this . I think a human needs hours per day of the correct kind of mental training to have a mindset shift. For example many people here have been suicidal for more than 10 years, thinking about suicide every day a lot and still haven't been able to defeat si.

This is the false argument that the ny times and prolifers say to try to get this site shut down. A website doesn't cause suicide nor causes a person to become suicidal.. It's the suffering in life that causes a person to consider suicide and to do it.

Again, I've already responded to other people saying similar things. If you actually care to see my point of view then look at some of the other stuff I've said. Thanks for being polite about it though.