I am totally done...

[noname223]

I am totally done with my self-help group.
It gets fucking insane and sort of sick.

I think I am done. These two borderline women have a fight in the group. They give subtle jabs to each other. They talk dirty about each other indirectly. And it is impossible to stay neutral. The atmosphere is extremely toxic. I get manipulated a lot. One person is currently doing gaslighting with me. Which is everything but good with my condition. I think I have to cut the strings with them.

I also wanted to talk about a third person with it. And he contacted one woman who is involved in the fight. Told her what I texted him. He told me that. I hoped he could actually help me in settling the dispute.
And now she convinces him to be on her side. And calls me the bad actor. At this point I can't win. I lost the game I have to admit that. My strategy was not good. I wanted to be honest. I wanted the best for the group. And its now used against me.

I am fucking done. She is now super pissed at me but all I wanted was to settle this dispute. And now my words are used against me. This is not good for my mental health. This is certainly not good for my mental health. All of this is also super weird. I think I have to search for another self-help group.

I will take a break for several weeks until the dust has settled. The group is very small and it might break the group if I leave. Maybe it is the best that this group is dissolved when the organizer of the group (the woman who gaslights me) uses it in order to search for men with whom she can emotionally cheat on her boyfriend. Which is also totally nuts.

What will I do instead? Spend my time on Sanctioned Suicide? The thing is one person is now super pissed at me. She already was. She won't stop the gaslighting. There is no reason to stop it. I am now her enemy. There is no way I can win this game. I think I will take a break of this group for several weeks. I mean they can also carry on this absurd fight without me. I think I need to calm down. This is extremely toxic for my mental health. The gaslighting does a huge amount of damage to my psyche. Bro, I can't believe they do this to me.

 

[auto138491]

Take your time. In the meantime, there is SaSu.

 

[Forever Sleep]

It doesn't sound helpful for you anymore. It sounds as if a break or search for something else may be the better option, from what you've said.

 

[noname223]

This fucks my mind totally. I try not to take a benzo. The withdrawal symptoms are horrible.

I will take a sleeping pill. But it will take many hours until I will be able to sleep. I feel horrible. This was a car crash. But I think this would have happened sooner or later anyway. I did not expect something like that today though. I thought it will be a usual session. Currently, I try cognitive restructuring. And I attempt to stop catastrophizing social interactions. But these car crashs aren't that seldom.

Maybe it is better that this group dies. It feels sort of right after what happened to me. I think the situation is fucked beyond repair.

This group helped me a long time. But it begins to turn on me.

I talked with AI about the situation to process it. And it is not helpful at all. All suggestions are totally unrealistic. And have no practical use.

 

[noname223]

My friends believe me which is very healing and goof for my sanity. I told them the story with all the details. Details I could not explain on here.

I was so scared they would call it delusional and paranoid which would have been horrible for my mental health. Because this would have made the gaslighting way more effective. If others already doubt your perception it is very difficult to defend yourself against gaslightening. I am relieved my friends believe it.

 

[noname223]

Bro, she sent me a text and denies everything. I already experienced how someone was gaslighting me. But this time it is way worse. I think she is damn good in it. She also knows all my weaknesses that I am currently questioning my mind and question my perception a lot.

This does a lot of damage. I am very anxious.

I am in a strategical dilemma. Because I was too naive. At the same time my perception could be indeed deceiving me because I had psychosis.

However, there are some incidents where the conflicts between them were that clear that there is simply no other explanation. And once they sort of admitted a conflict between them when I confronted them. Some parts of the story are puzzling though.

It is a very difficult situation. My first Impression was to quit this group. The organizer who might gaslights me uses the group to meet Men with whom she can emotionally cheat on her bf. I have evidence for that because she dated me. And she is really really good at Manipulation. This is also very clear with no doubts. The way she acted when we dated was insane. She followed me to the Bus, cried when I was interested in someone else. I changed my mind and thought well I must mean to her a lot. Turned to her and then it slipped. I am an adventure for her. That's sort of sick. And when I dated her I always had the Feeling she is only playing with me. She currently plays with a dude in our group who is super lonely. And she does the same with him what she was doing with me. She plays with his feelings. I think she realized how much I judge her for this and this is why she is so super pissed at me.

Now back to my strategy. I am like with my back against the Wall. My first option was to quit this group for good. Or at least to take a break for some weeks. But there is something else I could Do. I have a Mentally Ill friend and he could accompany me to this next group Meeting. Then He could make an independent assessment of the situation. There is the Possibility though that she adapts to my strategy. She seems to be out for revenge. I hate psychological warfare like that. Especially, because she is way better in that. But I will use strategical ambiguity and I won't Announce that He will accompany me. At the same time I don't feel comfortable to manipulate her back. I get the feeling I should Simply quit because I cannot win this war anyway.

 

[telekon]

Take your time. In the meantime, there is SaSu.

I like SaSu and think it's a really good support group, but at the same time I've never been more preoccupied with death as when I started using SaSu... For that reason I think it's not that good for mental health.

 

[noname223]

I was really unwell last week. I was questioning my mind all the time. The gaslighting was very powerful.

Today a friend of visited me. I persuaded him to come with me to the group. In order to hear his perspective. His conclusion: I am not making things up. There is an argument between them. He witnessed it. Today, it was more or less out in the open. My friend fully agreed with me. That there is something between them. He could not verify all claims though.

Today they were more civil. There were no hidden insults. But they had an open argument. (despite the fact the woman who tried to gaslight me pretend there was none)

I think my maneuver was pretty successful she did not anticipate that. Today she wasn't hostile to me though. She only is that when we are alone anyway. I have clearity now though that I am not making shit up. The argument was weird as fuck.

I was scared as shit when the third person in the group talked about my text message to the woman who is so hostile towards me. She manipulates people. I am scared of her.

Something that made me laugh. The person who I texted (and betryed me he just told it to the other woman) said in the group in a joking way "sometimes I am scared of you" to the person who tried to gaslight me. I think her game is a house of cards. Because now other people realize what she is doing. But she might take revenge for that towards me.

I have the fear she is doing something behind my back. I have a very very serious allegation or suspicioun. It could be a product of my deepest fears. But she manipulated me into admitting to her a weakness of mine and she might use that against me. I am also scared of her. Lol. She sort of behaves like a psychopath. My friend called my suspicion very paranoid and unlikely. But I am still scared some weird coincidences happened.

I am not sure what the future of this group is. I don't see a future to be honest. The argument will escalate more and more. It was good for my sanity that someone could confirm my perception.

You meet really weird people in such a group. And the main enemy is the organizer of the group. The whole thing is totally insane. I should seriously consider to quit and never look back. But the other self-help group are mediocre too. But can they really be that much worse?

 

[ObsidianMidnightSky]

The purpose of a self-help group is to help you. If it isn't helping, stop going. You can work on yourself without them.

Don't try to make friends or negotiate peace in a self-help group. They all have their own issues and it doesn't create a good platform for you to have a healthy interaction. Don't focus on others while you are there. You are there for YOU. Don't respond to "hear-say" messages and don't interact with people you are not comfortable with anymore. That just creates drama. Just be polite and avoid or change the topic if it turns to gossip. Never try to prove yourself to others. It is not your job to convince someone to believe you and if they don't believe you now, they probably still won't believe you after a page of texts. Two people fight? Say "I'm going to go for a walk/for a break/to the restroom. I'll be back in a bit when things are calmer". Someone messages you hear-say? Say "Thank you for letting me know, but I don't want to spend my time on this. I am focusing on me." Then drop it. Move on and let their squabbles continue.

If you are worried for your saftey, stop interacting. Say "please do not contact me anymore" (or just don't reply), and block them and join another group.

 

[noname223]

Okay. I skipped two weeks of self-help sessions. I am not sure but on one day I might would have been alone with the woman who tries to manipulate me. I said I couldn't come some hours before the session that day. She read it too late and was already at college I assume. Another reason to be pissed at me.

Last week, there was a poll who would come. And I said I couldn't. I played for time. The thing is I am scared to be alone with her. But I now know her intentions. I use strategic ambiguity so that she cannot read me that well. Which is difficult in a self-help group.

Today, someone new wanted to join. The woman who tries to gaslight me said she was ill. I am not fully sure whether that's true or not. She dislikes it when we have new people in the group. And yes she is the organizer and since we barely do ads.

I was not sure whether it was good to return. But this group session was for a different reason weird. We were three men and a new female member. A really good looking woman. She behaved weird though. There were some hints. She made eyes at us in a very intensive way. Literally, to all of us. She said she felt lonely but did not specify what mental problems she actually had. It felt like she was hiding something from us. I was a little bit skeptic because it just felt unnatural. I think she noticed I was wondering about her behavior. I asked her whether she has experience with therapy. She sort of considered that question offensive. And asked me something like "Do you want to say there is something wrong with me?". And tbh this felt like manipulation. It gave me a pretty guilty conscience for an innocent question. She mirrored all of us in a very weird intensive way. She had so much in common with all of us. Another reason could be she wanted to join another group and simply wanted to connect in that way. But the way how intensive she made eyes at us just felt off. There was one guy she was the most interested in. They actually had one big thing in common. It felt like she was interested in him and he was interested in her. I even tried to support him in his way to please her. I asked her whether she wants to join our group chat and she declined that. The dude had his hope up pretty much. After the group I talked to him and said I wonder whether we will ever see her again. And this puzzled him. I think she played with him. This did not feel real. There was way too much enthusiasm involved despite the fact she doesn't actually know him. And it wasn't only him.

I know I say this way too often. But I sort of had the feeling this woman might have had borderline. I believe her though that she never was in therapy. She probably does not even know what borderline is. In the core group. of our self-help group both women have borderline. It isn't that seldom. We had a couple of borderline patients. Many of them burn bridges very early. Maybe we will see her again - who knows?

I don't have any proof though. I could be wrong. Borderline people vary a lot in their specific behavior. In my life I met 6 borderline woman who I had closer contact with. Maybe I am too paranoid about this new member. But I think I might attract borderline women because I am very emotional availavable and I can develop very strong attachment pretty fast.

 

[noname223]

Okay I think the chemistry master students spreads lies about me to the one guy who I actually liked in this group.

I will do something risky. I will go to the self-help group again today. I think as long as I am not alone with the chemistry master student everything will be fine. If we two are alone I am pretty fucked. She will try to manipulate me when we are alone. One lesson from my horrible therapy experience was, if therapy is unhealthy, quit it. But I don't want to be seen as prick who ghosts the group. And it might distract me. Or make everything much worse.

 

[Hvergelmir]

I don't want to be seen as prick who ghosts the group.

Then don't "ghost". Explain yourself, and leave.

You have no obligation to remain in a toxic group. Why would you even want to? Are you being manipulated?

 

[noname223]

Then don't "ghost". Explain yourself, and leave.

You have no obligation to remain in a toxic group. Why would you even want to? Are you being manipulated?

I had to say that one person/the organizer is manipulative. And the person denies that. Currently, it looks like I am using cheap excuses for quitting the group. In some way they are cheap excuses because it is not the truth. But when I say that she is manipulative, she will claim I was psychotic and paranoid and noone will believe me.

I am on my way to the group. We will see whether this was actually a smart move. If we are more than two people I am safe. But during the bus ride I will probably be alone with her. But I will text with friends.

 

[noname223]

Went to the group. I had luck we were 4 people. If I was alone with the chemistry master student I would have been fucked.

I did some psychological warfare beforehand and it worked. To counter her manipulation.
I think the chemistry master student said to this one dude I still like that I would use lame excuses to quit the group. He also said in the group that he is actually hurt by someone or something.
Today, I opened up about what happened with my therapist. This was a secret thus far. There were some reasons I didn't want to specify it. I did not want that this people have this conflict explained in a writen form from me. This could be used against me. Even though, its unlikely. I think the chemistry master student wanted to hear how nightmarish I feel. I think this is her maniupulation. She searches for mental vulnerabilities and uses them against her enemies. That's real. What's paranoid but still in my head. That she goes to my former therapist and they team up against me.

When I described that I am actually winning the conflict with the therapist. Her blood was seething. Actually, it isn't clear who actually wins. I did my move. I am waiting for her response. Soon I gonna report her. She has a worse hand than me. Her blood was even more seething when I explained that in consequences of the nightmare with my therapist I had a date with this woman from the autism group. I once dated the chemistry master student.

But what's the lesson of all of that? The group indeed distracted me. Was it worth? Mentally I am not sure. It is good that the one dude doesn't feel disappointed by me. I think he is so blind of social interactions. He cannot read the room at all. In the longrun I am not sure whether its worth to go to this group. This time I won but it costed a lot of mental energy and a self-help group should not cost that.

After the group, I clearly won the mind game against the chemistry master I was silent. The other borderline woman was teasing her. They tease each other all the time. Earlier, I said its not about revenge when I have to report my therapist. And I think in the argument with the chemistry master student this was clear too. Maybe that's too much mind-reading. But I did not tease her at all. I was just quiet. Told her I had a headache which was true but my primary reason was not to talk with her more than necessary.
Don't communicate more with a bad actor that tries to gaslight and manipulate than its actually necessary. I think she noticed I didn't want to provoke or humiliate her. WIll this bring peace? I highly doubt. She is up for beef and I think the relation is damaged beyond repair. In some instances I liked her. But some traits of her personality are awful. And I get the feeling she is just an awful person in general how she treats other people.

One thing I am actually scared about her. If she just pretended I sexually molested her. Obviously, I would never do that. But I think she can be pretty rotten if she is out for revenge. One reason I didn't want to provoke her more than necessary. I lost my faith in humanity in the last weeks...

 

[noname223]

After a two week hiatus I went again to the self-help group.

And well these people still have their passive-aggressive conflicts.

There is one borderline that goes fully against the group with "subtle" hints. They are so explicit that even the other dude gets them. There is another borderline woman who I once dated. She idealized me in the past, but changed to despising me fully. She tries to get the other dude on her side to hurt me.

Today, i dropped something. That I have the feeling the group isn't real. That we often only portray a certain image of ourselves in the group. How we want to be seen. Not our actual selves. And I said that 1-2 friends of mine would call the group toxic. In the way we meet us weekly and talk about mental health in the way we do it.

There is such a passive-aggressive atmosphere sometimes. And then in the next moment we all pretend there was nothing and how much we liked each other.

I think I might will address this in the future. There is only one person I care about in this group. And this is the dude that gets persuaded by the second borderline woman to hate me.

On my way home I had to spend time with the chemistry master student/the second borderline woman. And all she does is trying to hurt me. She goes after my weak spots and since we are in a self-help group she knows them. But this evening I defended myself in a good way. I just talked so much about my passions and how much they help me that she really got annoyed. I have the feeling she feels good when something bad in my life happens. This self-help group doesn't feel safe anymore.

This evening I dropped parts of the truth.. But I plan to speak the full truth because I don't want to participate in this ridicolous way of handling arguments.

 

[noname223]

Holy shit. I know it sounds made up

But the whole thing with my autism self-help group just repeated in my college self-help group. But this time I defended myself. And oh boy I humiliated all of them. I am not sure whether you are familiar with my toxic college self-help group. I will Update this thread too. People on here adviced me never go there again. There are two Borderline women and a dude I liked. The dude was the only reason why I still went there. I cared what He thought about me. Last time I opened up that the group feels toxic. And that it is simply not real anymore.



I think He took this very personally. And the chemistry master student used that for her advantage. They Low-key ambushed me. I am not sure how much He knew but He was certainly against me. So the chemistry master invited her boyfriend to the group. We dated, and I think she wanted me to become jealous. Since weeks she tries to get my weak spots and tries to hit them. But honestly I have to laugh instead how insane she behaves.



She Was in a pretty good mood this evening when she told me she invited her boyfriend. She said things like she will invite him to go regularly to the group. I had a very strong urge to laugh out loud when I realized what she tried. I feel sorry for her boyfriend and I am certainly not jealous. Lol. They noticed how I almost bursted out my laughing. The chemistry master was pissed about that. At first I had the feeling the other Borderline woman which whom she has her regularly beef was On her side. I had the feeling at the beginning she was on her Team to bully me. But when she noticed how I tried not to laugh, which was really really offensive. Because the attempt to hurt me was so pathetic. She changed the Team. For the rest of the evening she was on my side.



The dude I liked not anymore though. Tried to debate me. He wasn't as smart as the sociopathic friend of this autistic woman. And I decided to defend me this time. He tried to own me intellectually and I completely owned him instead. This Was pretty pathetic. During the debate by the way He admitted to have watched gore. Something I highly suspected. I thought I won't admit that for myself because the others would use that against me. His arguments where pathetic. How can I play shooters if such games glorify violence. He admitted to Play them too. The debate became politically and I completely owned him. He said where are you drawing the lines of violence in Video games would you accept a Game designed for pedophiles. Honestly, He isn't as dumb as these arguments suggest but it was a cake walk for me. And it felt good that I defended myself this time.



He was the only one I still appreciated. And at the end of the evening He attacked the other Borderline woman with the question "With whom will you spend christmas this year?". Her dad died this year. And even though she is constantly attacking this group this line was depraved. I looked with disgust at him. And told the group that I will leave the christmas Party. Tbh I think I will never see these people again. It felt good. This is a good end note for this group. I will leave the door open to return but mostly to piss off the chemistry Master Student. She will hate that for some reasons.



Some friends of mine were right with their advice to leave. But I feel way better with the ending of today. I wanted an honest break. And oh boy...


This will need time to sink in. Everywhere I go there are insane evil people

Over the chemistry master stundent I almost killed myself last October. If I only knew her Character to this point.

By the way her boyfriend never arrived at the meeting. And she was so fucking pissed.

If this autistic woman and her friend attack me the next time I already have a plan to attack them back. I know a line which would make them really pissed. The rude anti-social friend of her said he wants to join the autism self-help group. I Mmght also get my revenge on them. Even though, I think revenge isn't something that should be sought.

Here is the thread where I explain what happened with the autistic woman from the other self-help group.

Processing the insane, second meeting with this very progressive, liberal autistic woman

The first meeting was great. We were not fully on the same side always but it was an amazing conversation for both of us. Yesterday, was the second meeting she invited two autistic friends. The first was a friendly woman. No problems. I learned she dated her. The second person was an allegedly...

sanctioned-suicide.net

 

[noname223]

I still have to think about it. I think I won't go there anymore.

The woman that wanted to make me to become jealous really acted insane. Actually, I liked her for a long time. She was like a friend to me. Then I flirted with the idea we could date again. She considered that offensive because I already acted like I know she only plays with me. Because this is what she does to most men. Also to me when we dated. I justed wanted it to be honest. But seemingly this was offensive for her.

Then I wanted to settle the dispute in the group. And the one dude that should help me to settle the dispute just tells her what I sent to him. I wanted that the message is confidential. This was the moment I knew I have made myself an enemy. And this is when I posted this thread.

You know this woman was so manipulative to me and tried to hit my weak spots so hard and aggressively. She is abusing me this since almost 3 months. It seems really insane she thinks I would be jealous of her boyfriend. I actually feel sorry for him because she cheats on him emotionally. Maybe he is a douche. I don't know. But she tried to hurt me all the time. I didn't show whether it actually worked because she would take advantage of that. Why should I be jealous then? I think I am living in her head way too much. This was overthinking by her. I also have some people who live in my head but its not her. If you overanalyze someone, with the strong desire to hurt him or her, you will come to wrong conclusions. It can end in wishful thinking.

At the same time I feel sorry for her. If I offended her I would have prefered an honest conversation. She also could have insulted me in this conversation and call me a hypocrite and bad human being. I would have accepted that. But instead of an honest talk she was attacking me behind my back. Tried to get other group members on her side. She turned really red and it looked like the situation was very uncomfortable for her. I think she will like it that I quit the group. I think this was one of her goals.

 

[noname223]

I am sort of relieved of not having to go there anymore. The environment became so hostile. And I found a good end to it. This was important to me. The one dude I still like texted some days ago. But he just asked how I was doing and nothing more. I have explained to the group that the dynamics feels toxic. This is why people were mad at me. And then the crazy hostile christmas meeting happened.

The thing is it is very likely they will insult each other in subliminal ways all the fucking time. And when I tried to point that out they just pretended there was no conflict. And these people call themselves self-help group. A friend o mine coined the term self-damaging group. Lol.

 

[noname223]

Today, in an online meeting I will see the autistic liberal woman again. And maybe her sociopathic friend will join. It is unlikely but I am still nervous. I will update this thread afterwards.

Edit: She did not come.

 

[noname223]

So I did something stupid. I was frustrated by getting zero likes and matches on dating apps. So I texted the autistic liberal woman today. She ignored my message. And I think this is okay. I am not sure whether she is actually evil or not. Her friend was. But I get the feeling she uses and throws away social contacts as she wishes. And I find that a little bit disgusting. I think she ghosts me now. I wonder whether this is the reason why she stayed away from our self-help group meeting.

 

[noname223]

I ignored the college self-help group since the Christmas meeting. The meeting was nuts and the group has become so toxic. Today one of them tried to call me out of nowhere. The one who doesn't get how he gets manipulated by the chemistry master student. He send me a long message instead. I wrote a very long reply but wanted to get feedback first from my friends. The situation is very complex and you have to spend a lot of time to fully understand. The manipulation is also sort of subtle. The chemistry master student is gaslighting me like over half a year. Pretending there were no conflicts in the group. I was not sure how open and honest I should be. They will keep gaslighting me. In fact I just got a reply for my reply. And I am already annoyed to read it. I revised my first reply with the help of chatGPT. And maybe it is a good idea for a thread. Why I am using chatGPT for therapy and feedback. I told it to my friends. All of them despise AI and got pretty angry when I told it them for the first time. One friend of mine despises AI the most. Though, when I talked about to him, which annoyed to fuck out of him according to him, I think I achieved something. I don't want that they use AI. But their hatred is a little bit exaggerated in my opinion. Because the topic has become like a culture war. Recently, we were at a meeting and he started to chat with chatGPT. Another friend was really puzzled about that.
My friend shitted on me for receiving feedback for my text message from chatGPT. I will elaborate on it in a seperate thread. But I think the revised version is way better. But I am so annoyed I have to read this message because the guy from the self-help group will gaslight me most likely. Probably because of ignorance because his emotional intelligence is ultra low. I think I have to read it. Okay lol it is bait. There was no conflict what do you mean? I think I will ignore it.

 

[noname223]

Drama, we want more drama baby. Yesterday someone from that group called me. I ignored the call, he sent me message asking me when I will return to the group. I said I don't feel comfortable in this group and that I won't return at least for the moment.
So today someone else from the group sent me a message. I never texted with that person. She invited me to her birthday party with the members of the self-help group. I will ignore that message.

Why are these people so annoying? What do they want from me? I think they are pretty pissed I defended myself against their bullying. And that I quit the group. I think it is a massive L for them. And they can't accept that. I told them they are toxic. They proved it with their behavior I defended myself against it. They are salty about that. And as a consequence they become even more toxic. I could imagine they really wish they could hurt me. But no I won't have contact with them. Most of the behavior is manipulation, gaslighting. I wonder why noone wants to join this "self-help group" if they act like that.

I am so glad I have good friends instead of spending time with them. I consider to delete the contacts, block them forever. I am not sure whether I should wait after they do their next move. Or afterward that...If they do something insane I will have proof for it because it won't be a phone call. On the other hand, why do I need proof? It is a fact I feel so much better without them.