Hunter

[SexyIncél]

This may sound overly dramatic & obscure. Feel free to read some other post; this is how my internal communications sometimes sound, with the constraint I must be reasonably confidential. This is a vent post. Reframes my thoughts

In one month, I'll get on a plane & begin a project. I've been training physically, with a personal trainer. And mentally — any task may require 50 decisions (even far more?), and all I must do is grind, grind, grind them down to dust, solving any problem that comes up, until all problems are solved

"Spiritually" — on the realm of group-minds — I've been alone for a couple weeks now. I have far fewer long conversations; and when I have them, it's not about me. No, I'm amplifying my individual self

Pro-lifers aren't alive. They're zombies. Programmed by degenerate cultures. To stop you from truly living, mire yourself in your own fluids

Guesstimate 30% chance I die this year. They say a man's supposed to have a certain kind of strength, and daring. All right then. We're hunters, pushing ourselves past limits, practicing our skills to the edge of our abilities, onto the world

Often, when you find a problem, you can pull on it & the thread leads you to deeper ones. You travel to strange places, following it

 

[SexyIncél]

Moving this to not derail the nifty exercise thread

Poor @sserafim, getting a looOoong rant in response to your 1-liner question...

I've been wanting to ask you this for a while. Are you actually an incel?

When I help gals irl, I identify with their struggles — seeing from their perspectives. I guess my username comes partly from how I felt, when I discovered how cruelly people here treated lonely men

Having known adoration, I think everyone should enjoy it too. Mentorship in becoming adorable & adored

I knew almost nothing about incel culture before I came to SaSu. So I studied it, just like I did the various feminist traditions. I soon grew cold at the self-lacerating cruelty of abusing lonely men. Some of the men most crushed by patriarchy — natural allies to women! Why push them to misogynist forums, when they've got a fine misogyny-free one here?

---

Just yesterday, a guy in the locker room noticed me listening to Fresh & Fit on my phone — a rightwing redpill podcast. He's doing well: athletic, well-paid, relationships, friendly & courteous, etc

I started to joke, "Yeah, guess I'm into toxic masculinity..." But he said no, it's not toxic — men need a strong frame. And briefly mentioned women's poor decisionmaking & how it's a bad idea they vote

Women I know don't go quite that far. But even leftist girls get alarmed & repulsed when their bf starts talking about becoming the New Feminist Man. Women are the ones in my life ridiculing feminists. (Because men would sound brutish doing it)

---

There was a window when women could've helped redefine masculinities. I'd point it out, and feminists would "clap back" that I can't put this emotional labor on women. Men must do it. I was astonished — how often does an oppressed class get the chance to redefine their oppressors?

And when has a feminist NOT announced their opinions about men?

And don't I help women deal with their intense emotions ALL THE TIME?

"All right then, you had your opportunity. Let the manosphere do it... and enjoy 2024"

Spoiler: for feminerds — bell hooks called it

Feminist thinkers, like myself, who wanted to include men in the discussion were usually labeled male-identified and dismissed. We were "sleeping with the enemy." We were the feminists who could not be trusted because we cared about the fate of men. We were the feminists who did not believe in female superiority any more than we believed in male superiority. As the feminist movement progressed, the fact became evident that sexism and sexist exploitation and oppression would not change unless men were also deeply engaged in feminist resistance, yet most women were still expressing no genuine interest in highlighting discussions of maleness.

[...]

Once the "new man" that is the man changed by feminism was represented as a wimp, as overcooked broccoli dominated by powerful females who were secretly longing for his macho counterpart, masses of men lost interest. Reacting to this inversion of gender roles, men who were sympathetic chose to stop trying to play a role in female-led feminist movement and became involved with the men's movement. Positively, the men's movement emphasized the need for men to get in touch with their feelings, to talk with other men. Negatively, the men's movement continued to promote patriarchy by a tacit insistence that in order to be fully self-actualized, men needed to separate from women. The idea that men needed to separate from women to find their true selves just seemed like the old patriarchal message dressed up in a new package.

In the wake of feminist movement and the diverse men's liberation movements that did not bring women and men closer together, the question of what the alternative to patriarchal masculinity might be must still be answered.

Clearly, men need new models for self-assertion that do not require the construction of an enemy "other," be it a woman or the symbolic feminine, for them to dene themselves against. Starting in early childhood, males need models of men with integrity, that is, men who are whole, who are not divided against themselves.

[...]

Undoubtedly, one of the first revolutionary acts of visionary feminism must be to restore maleness and masculinity as an ethical biological category divorced from the dominator model. This is why the term patriarchal masculinity is so important, for it identies male dierence as being always and only about the superior rights of males to dominate, be their subordinates females or any group deemed weaker, by any means necessary.

[...]

And those of us committed to ending patriarchy can touch the hearts of real men where they live, not by demanding that they give up manhood or maleness, but by asking that they allow its meaning to be transformed, that they become disloyal to patriarchal masculinity in order to nd a place for the masculine that does not make it synonymous with domination or the will to do violence.

— bell hooks, "The Will to Change: Men, Masculinity & Love"

 

[Bianka]

Moving this to not derail the nifty exercise thread

Poor @sserafim, getting a looOoong rant in response to your 1-liner question...


When I help gals irl, I identify with their struggles — seeing from their perspectives. I guess my username comes partly from how I felt, when I discovered how cruelly people here treated lonely men

Having known adoration, I think everyone should enjoy it too. Mentorship in becoming adorable & adored

I knew almost nothing about incel culture before I came to SaSu. So I studied it, just like I did the various feminist traditions. I soon grew cold at the self-lacerating cruelty of abusing lonely men. Some of the men most crushed by patriarchy — natural allies to women! Why push them to misogynist forums, when they've got a fine misogyny-free one here?

---

Just yesterday, a guy in the locker room noticed me listening to Fresh & Fit on my phone — a rightwing redpill podcast. He's doing well: athletic, well-paid, relationships, friendly & courteous, etc

I started to joke, "Yeah, guess I'm into toxic masculinity..." But he said no, it's not toxic — men need a strong frame. And briefly mentioned women's poor decisionmaking & how it's a bad idea they vote

Women I know don't go quite that far. But even leftist girls get alarmed & repulsed when their bf starts talking about becoming the New Feminist Man. Women are the ones in my life ridiculing feminists. (Because men would sound brutish doing it)

---

There was a window when women could've helped redefine masculinities. I'd point it out, and feminists would "clap back" that I can't put this emotional labor on women. Men must do it. I was astonished — how often does an oppressed class get the chance to redefine their oppressors?

And when has a feminist NOT announced their opinions about men?

And don't I help women deal with their intense emotions ALL THE TIME?

"All right then, you had your opportunity. Let the manosphere do it... and enjoy 2024"

You kinda overcomplicate and generalize it. This mindset just fuels the problem. I think it's fairly simple. I'm not gonna look at you as a man and you're not gonna look at me as a woman as long as the situation doesn't require it. People would be suprised how rare those situtations are. If you can't look at others as people you failed not as a femininst or the opposite but as a human being

 

[SexyIncél]

You kinda overcomplicate and generalize it. This mindset just fuels the problem. I think it's fairly simple. I'm not gonna look at you as a man and you're not gonna look at me as a woman as long as the situation doesn't require it. People would be suprised how rare those situtations are. If you can't look at others as people you failed not as a femininst or the opposite but as a human being

Eh, works for me. Morality is about actions — not internal interpretations & theories

If someone asks me to help her effectively counterattack her r*pist boss, then it's morally irrelevant if I perceive her as an underage black girl. This is useful information — regardless of your feelings

If you've had success helping people — counterattacking abusive boyfriends/bosses/etc — please feel free to share case studies with us! (Ideally in your own thread)

If you haven't done such things — then perhaps you've "failed as a human being"? And should focus on improving yourself, not pointing fingers at others?

---

Not that it matters... but at the core I find gender pretty arbitrary. But if I act ignorant of gender logics, then I'm socially ineffective. Because it's a fundamental social logic of the species

If the world presents complex problems I desire to solve, then I may need lots of mental models to help me: predict, explain & guide my interventions

 

[sserafim]

Eh, works for me. Morality is about actions — not internal interpretations & theories

If someone asks me to help her effectively counterattack her r*pist boss, then it's irrelevant if I perceive her as an underage black girl. This is useful information — regardless of your feelings

If you've had success helping people — counterattacking abusive boyfriends/bosses/etc — please feel free to share case studies with us! (Ideally in your own thread)

If you haven't done such things — then perhaps you've "failed as a human being"? And should focus on improving yourself, not pointing fingers at others?

---

Not that it matters... but at the core I find gender pretty arbitrary. But if I act ignorant of gender logics, then I'm socially ineffective. Because it's a fundamental social logic of the species

If the world presents complex problems I desire to solve, then I may need lots of mental models to help me: predict, explain & guide my interventions

Hey dude can you help me get my crush to start talking to me again?

 

[SexyIncél]

Hey dude can you help me get my crush to start talking to me again?

Sure! Wanna do it in this thread? Or you can PM if you'd like

(Anyone else can PM me too; I'm a chatterbox...)

 

[sserafim]

Sure! Wanna do it in this thread? Or you can PM if you'd like

(Anyone else can PM me too; I'm a chatterbox...)

Okay thanks. Let's PM. Lol I just PM'ed you, not sure if you saw it @SexyIncél

 

[Bianka]

Eh, works for me. Morality is about actions — not internal interpretations & theories

If someone asks me to help her effectively counterattack her r*pist boss, then it's morally irrelevant if I perceive her as an underage black girl. This is useful information — regardless of your feelings

If you've had success helping people — counterattacking abusive boyfriends/bosses/etc — please feel free to share case studies with us! (Ideally in your own thread)

If you haven't done such things — then perhaps you've "failed as a human being"? And should focus on improving yourself, not pointing fingers at others?

---

Not that it matters... but at the core I find gender pretty arbitrary. But if I act ignorant of gender logics, then I'm socially ineffective. Because it's a fundamental social logic of the species

If the world presents complex problems I desire to solve, then I may need lots of mental models to help me: predict, explain & guide my interventions

You didn't say anything to argue with me tho but listing radical examples where gender could be an important factor. "Works for you" is a vague excuse to deepen this harmful mindset.

 

[stillunemployed]

I don't disagree with you, you seem much more down-to-earth-touching-grass-letting-it-scratch-my-balls than most listeners of redpill podcasts, if you can just listen to it and let it consume you.

You need to realize, all these things, even feminism, are all acting as designed. None of it is meant to be inclusive, since actual, real inclusivity is an absolute threat to the glory of the free market.

Feminism was scary only because of the danger of it growing into an actually effective workers party, so it becoming just another pawn for the divide and conquer strategy by the elites to keep us busy is, well, just business as usual.

 

[SexyIncél]

I don't disagree with you, you seem much more down-to-earth-touching-grass-letting-it-scratch-my-balls than most listeners of redpill podcasts, if you can just listen to it and let it consume you.

Thanks! Yeah, I wrote some brief notes about picking out the poison in the redpill, to freely use its brilliant insights

None of it is meant to be inclusive, since actual, real inclusivity is an absolute threat to the glory of the free market.

Feminism was scary only because of the danger of it growing into an actually effective workers party, so it becoming just another pawn for the divide and conquer strategy by the elites to keep us busy is, well, just business as usual.

Yeah, I agree. Liberal feminism (as opposed to other feminist traditions) is pretty much the elites attempting to absorb & weaponize women's movements. Focuses on the glass ceiling, not the scary basement. Doesn't care about the bottom 80% of women

Of course, the Roman empire thought it could absorb anything too. Until one day they didn't give Alaric the Goth a promotion, and the rest was history...

bell hooks seems to agree with you too!

Reformist feminist women could not make this call because they were the group of women (mostly white women with class privilege) who had pushed the idea that all men were powerful in the first place. These were the women for whom feminist liberation was more about getting their piece of the power pie and less about freeing masses of women or less powerful men from sexist oppression. They were not mad at their powerful daddies and husbands who kept poor men exploited and oppressed; they were mad that they were not being giving equal access to power. Now that many of those women have gained power, and especially economic parity with the men of their class, they have pretty much lost interest in feminism.

"Works for you" is a vague excuse to deepen this harmful mindset.

Again, effective action vs ephemeral mindsets...

We had such a nice discussion about proofs of god in the philosophy forum. Feel free to have the last word; fwiw this quote just came to mind:

The ancient Greek philosophers, such as Epicurus, Zeno, and Socrates, remained more faithful to the Idea of the philosopher than their modern counterparts have done. 'When will you finally begin to live virtuously?' said Plato to an old man who told him he was attending classes on virtue. The point is not always to speculate, but also ultimately to think about applying our knowledge.

Today, however, he who lives in conformity with what he teaches is taken for a dreamer.

— Kant, Lectures on the Philosophical Encyclopedia

 

[stillunemployed]

Thanks! Yeah, I wrote some brief notes about picking out the poison in the redpill, to freely use its brilliant insights

You mention Andrew Tate there. If you can stomach his overall cadence and style (I can't, he makes me vomit), it's actually a pretty good lifestyle. Very healthy and lots of people around you. The price, however, is one day ending up in a barrel dissolving in chemical waste because of an inability to shut the fuck up, OR shutting the fuck for the next 40 years, which would be excruciating for someone like him.

Of course, the Roman empire thought it could absorb anything too. Until one day they didn't give Alaric the Goth a promotion, and the rest was history...

Oh, now that is oversimplifying it.

bell hooks seems to agree with you too!

The problem is, even these supposedly privileged women, don't have any power. If they manage to get into a powerful position, usually reserved for specific privileged men, they are surrounded by people who counting on them to fail, as it makes them a convenient scapegoat.

To make it a thought experiment and don't try this at home, ask the most annoying and loud girlboss around you, if she can make the grabby coworker or lecherous neighbor suffer consequence for their behavior.