How would incels be perceived today if instead of going down the path of hate, they were kind and solely focused on ctb?

[NormallyNeurotic]

Is fascinating to me how people with the most extreme points of views always end up dominating the conversation in these threads. Every time you have one of these gender topics you always get people (who usually have very little life experience) giving you their most extreme politicized opinions and passing it as the norm. It is really unfortunate some confused young men and women are going to read these discussions and take one of these crap takes as gospel.

I will take the bait today and push back even if I know it will be a waste of time:

- No, you are not owed sex or love
- Yes, is valid to feel you are owed sex or love
- Even if the feeling is valid, you are still not owed sex or love.
- Yes, sex and love are wonderful things
- Yes, is valid to want these things and feel envious you haven't experienced them
- Yes, is valid to want these things and not feel envious or sad you haven't experienced them
- Yes, you are inferior in the relationship department compared to people who have had relationships!
- No, that doesn't mean you are defective and worthless at everything.
- Yes, you can live a fruitful life without having sex or love
- No, a fruitful life is not a life where you don't have yearning for love or sex
- Yes sleeping with escorts and sex workers is not like having real intimate sex or love.
- Yes, sleeping with escorts tends to be frowned upon by society
- No, having sex with an escort isn't anywhere near as rare or embarrassing as you might think
- Yes, some people will judge you harshly if you sleep with escorts
- Yes, some people will accept you if you tell them you sleep with escorts
- Yes, having sex with an escorts is enjoyable.
- Yes, having sex with an escorts can be depressing.
- No, sex work isn't "rape" or human trafficking.
- Yes, rape and human trafficking occur and gets lumped in with sex work.
- No, sex work isn't synonymous with rape or human trafficking.
- Yes incels sleep with escorts
- Yes men who aren't incels also sleep with escorts
- Yes a lot of incels feel anger and hatred of women
- Yes a lot of men who aren't incels feel anger and hatred of women
- Yes hatred of women is wrong
- Yes there are incels who love women
- Yes there are men who aren't incels who love women
- No, you don't have to hate women if you are an incel
- No, you don't have to hate women if you are not an incel
- Yes, being an incel is humiliating
- Yes, being an incel is not humiliating
- Yes, even as an incel you can experience love one day
- Yes, as an incel you may never experience love
- Yes, is valid to feel sadness and anger you may never experience love
- Yes, you can still have an fruitful and enjoyable life regardless of the outcome.


TLDR; Humans are not one-dimensional. Anyone pretending otherwise has not interacted with too many adults in their life.

I agree with all of this.

Adding my own:

- Yes, the majority of incels and the community-advertised belief of incels includes some sort of negative feelings towards women

- No, the negative feelings are not always radically and obviously dangerous

- No, the person who holds these beliefs is not always conscious of them

-Yes, the incel community is more statistically likely to turn a blind eye to radically and obviously dangerous beliefs

- Yes, the incel community is still a net negative for the safety of women even with the members of it who are not violent or bigoted

- Yes, these men deserve a less echo-chambery, more support-based community

- Yes, I think this could be that community if they would at least entertain the idea of their feelings towards women being toxic (instead of doubling down for three straight pages like some users have)

Vulnerable narcissist who's obessed with sex and has some weird opinions about women.

Including mental health terms in definitions tied to what some define to be a hategroup seems like a bad idea

I propose that they are (typically) cis men with sexual obsessions & conscious or unconscious negative bias against women.

 

[deadgirlwalking]

It's something I've been curious about. I by definition would be considered one. I'm ugly, short, virgin, etc. But I do not hate or wish harm on anyone.

Logically I feel the best solution to bad genetics is suicide. I cannot change my body. I can't make myself tall, handsome, good looking, smart, etc. So I'll just kill myself, simple as is.

I had no say in the body or life that I got. I could not consent to looking like this, I don't consider this body to define who I am because it's unfair.

No amount of suffering you could cause others would ever make them physically attracted to you, it won't make people like, desire, or love you. It's pointless violence and hate.

I think it wouldnt be as heard of in general, the reason incelism gets so much heat is because of the violence attached to their ideology. If it wasnt for that it would pretty much be obscure. Unrelated a bit but you seem very kind and sweet. I can't fully relate as I am a woman but im considered unattractive by many/most and "unconventional looking" at absolute best. It's horrifying that you suffer because of things you can't control, especially when it shouldn't really matter to anyone for the most part in the grand scheme of things. Take the following statement if it resonates with you, or ignore it if it doesn't but just know that your value isn't quantified by a love interest or even how you look. Humans have existed for thousands of years with your traits and unfortunately we just so happen to live in a time where that's not the beauty standard. I won't be to preachy anymore but I genuinely wish you healing, you seem very kind and rational and we need more people like you in the world.

 

[martyrdom]

- Yes, these men deserve a less echo-chambery, more support-based community

No, they don't. Misogyny is not a mental illness or something that comes from being an uwu smol bean who has had too much pain by evil women in their life and they just need love and understanding and education so they figure out women are people. It's a choice and it's learned. And you can't buy consent.

But if you're talking about simply men who are sad about not finding love, and are not in any way misogynistic (doubtful), yes in theory those do deserve support.

 

[alwayspissedoff]

I think people here should be really aware by now that discussing this kind of political topics here is completely pointless. It's sadly always the same.

 

[ToANewWorld]

I agree with all of this.

Adding my own

Yeah I would agree with most of what you listed too because you aren't playing the black and white game. When is anything in life so black or white (x good y bad)? Specially when talking about a huge percentages of men and women. Lol

I propose that they are (typically) cis men with sexual obsessions & conscious or unconscious negative bias against women.

Unrelated but what is the problem with the current definition? Incel basically means you have a really really hard time getting sex/relationships even though you really want to, no? I think that's accurate, personally.

 

[rs929]

I think people here should be really aware by now that discussing this kind of political topics here is completely pointless. It's sadly always the same.

It kind of worries me that depressed young men get this idea: "I'm an incel, I'm a burden to everyone and I should die". Because that's exactly what depression tells you, that you are evil and a burden to others, and it's good that you commit suicide.

I think we should be empathetic to everyone here.

But yeah the gender wars is useless

 

[NormallyNeurotic]

Unrelated but what is the problem with the current definition? Incel basically means you have a really really hard time getting sex/relationships even though you really want to, no? I think that's accurate, personally.

That was more to replace the incorrect use of "narcissist," but personally I do think inceldom has surpassed just being people who want sex but cannot get it.

It is attached to an ideology that harms people, even if not outwardly violent. The community has rallied around the term incel and added so much new context to it, that using the literal definition WITHOUT specifying "under the orginal/literal definition" will lead someone to believing that you are part of inceldom just due to how language evolves.

 

[Hollowillow]

I would have had a happy life with a ugly but loving father. I think incels want a porn star instead of just a human at their level. People are born ugly because 2 ugly people found love and solace in each others.

If incels were kind but suicidal they'd be threated like us.

 

[Dejected 55]

People are born ugly because 2 ugly people found love and solace in each others.

That's not how genetics works, though. Plenty of perceived ugly parents have conventionally attractive children... and many attractive couples have perceived ugly children. You don't have to look too hard to find examples all around you.

 

[PureEndless]

This isn't even about suicide, wrong forum to post this in. Anyway...

Why won't any women fuck me?
Why won't any women suck my greasy sack of meat?
Why won't any women love me?
Why won't any women accept my unbrushed teeth?

I only shower once a week,
I do not talk and I am meek,
But the problem is women, not me,
And now they'll pay the ultimate fee!

You're literally sitting here and bullying people over their depression and their inability to self-care.

Not all incels are violent or hate women. You are choosing to co-opt it that way.

I am not an incel but I have met many of them who would not hurt anyone and do not blame women. So anyone saying that is demonstrably wrong.

And bullying anyone is never the answer to anything. This behavior is disgusting in and of itself.

Even if you feel that they are harming people, why do you feel that mocking them is the answer back?

What is wrong with you?

 

[betternever2havbeen]

Seriously why can men not just call themselves single anymore?! It's still OK-just like men 30 years ago used to do and not have to shout to the world about how they're "involuntary celibate" all the damn time. No one cares about your sex life half as much as you think they do. And we really don't need to know. Women do not struggle with this and resort to calling themselves femcels (well maybe very occasionally) and before anyone comes at me that women don't have the same issues-yes they do. I don't know why we need to label everything or reduce people down to something like being an incel and have them make it their whole entire personality. And it's fine to want advice and empathy for loneliness and lack of a relationship-no one begrudges a man that but that's not what it's about is it? It's sex, and the entitlement of it and treating women like they only exist to service men.