How people respond when you say professional help didn't actually help you or made things worse?

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Whenever I say that 10+ years of therapy, countless medications, lifestyle changes, etc did nothing to make me less suicidal or fix any of my problems, people start playing the blame game:

"Well, have you tried yoga? You're just lazy if you can't exercise."

"You need to do keto diet, trust me."

"You weren't trying hard enough or being open to accepting the help. You can't force a horse to drink once you guide it to water-only you can help yourself!"

"True happiness can only come from yourself. Stop acting like the world will change to suit you."

"You just won't engage with treatment due to your PTSD. You need to face your fears."

"You just haven't found the right therapist yet, keep trying no matter how much it costs because it will be so worth it!"

"You just want to act like a victim. Take responsibility for your actions and your healing. You have to want to change."

"Stop seeking validation from others. Only a professional can help you. No one else is trained or qualified to."

It's like these people have no idea what it feels like to live with chronic pain, chronic illnesses, autism, and a host of other ailments that are not only incurable, but intolerable as well.

People seem to think therapists, psychiatrists, and other doctors are shamans who can perform a magic spell and fix everything. They do not realize that even the most renouned of experts are merely human like the rest of us, suspectible to all of the biases, weaknesses, and fallacies that all of mankind can find ourselves entrenched in. In fact, I have learned more from others online who also suffer from my illnesses, than I ever have from any "professional".

I think a ton of people just refuse to accept that many things are out of our control. We can cheat biology as much as we like, but we still haven't discovered or understood everything there is to know about the human body and experience. Some answers do not exist, and there is not an all knowing expert with a diploma tacked on the wall who can elucidate this unknown. Thomas Szaz writes some very interesting books about this phenomena.

Do people think you are crazy if you tell them that nothing helped you? People certainly think I'm merely stubborn or uncooperative when I tell them that the so called experts have ruined my life rather than provided any tangible assistance. This treatment makes me more suicidal, yet they don't realise it.

Oh, and they also make this face at me.

 

[nolongerhuman]

The most common response I've been getting is "See a different therapist then!" As if I would believe the sixth therapist would work miracles when the first five didn't.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

The most common response I've been getting is "See a different therapist then!" As if I would believe the sixth therapist would work miracles when the first five didn't.

People say the same shit to me even though I have had over 10 different therapists and tried many types of therapy techniques. Eventually some therapists started to tell me that my issues were too complex and that I needed to be referred elsewhere, but that elsewhere simply did not exist. They didn't want to admit they couldn't do anything. Much love to you for having to put up with this invalidating nonsense.

 

[Tintypographer]

I find that people don't care when you express that professional help in the form of cognitive therapy or other types of therapy and drugs are not effective. Well meaning but completely out of their depth people have no idea the level of self hatred and desire for relief that exists in a significant portion of the population with treatment resistant depression. Since the result of this diagnosis is either live with the pain or not and it doesn't result in a cancer or heart disease related death they can't have an awareness fun run and since they don't understand it anyway the only resource is to say "have you tried xyz" or "you're not trying hard enough" or "give it a chance" or "you have so much to live for".

Sometimes I wish there was a simulation of hopelessness that someone could sit down and see the feedback loop of self hatred and desire for relief.

It's never ever addressed or even acknowledged by well meaning individuals and I think that as long as they don't acknowledge it there will continue to be tens of thousands of people seeking suicide.

 

[luten]

i recently visited a top spinal surgeon, who told me that there is nothing more that can be done, after countless amounts of surgeries. When I was younger I got angry with drs when they said "oh you just have to live with it". But now as an adult, looking at my radio images, I can see it is pretty much a one-way road. One rule I stick by , is not blaming people who tries to help, I always look at the intention, and not so much to what they saying. Some people are very bitter towards their doctors, I certainly cannot agree to any type of bitterness in life, as it aggravates one's suffering.

 

[x_LittleAmy_x]

Whenever I say that 10+ years of therapy, countless medications, lifestyle changes, etc did nothing to make me less suicidal or fix any of my problems, people start playing the blame game:

"Well, have you tried yoga? You're just lazy if you can't exercise."

"You need to do keto diet, trust me."

"You weren't trying hard enough or being open to accepting the help. You can't force a horse to drink once you guide it to water-only you can help yourself!"

"True happiness can only come from yourself. Stop acting like the world will change to suit you."

"You just won't engage with treatment due to your PTSD. You need to face your fears."

"You just haven't found the right therapist yet, keep trying no matter how much it costs because it will be so worth it!"

"You just want to act like a victim. Take responsibility for your actions and your healing. You have to want to change."

"Stop seeking validation from others. Only a professional can help you. No one else is trained or qualified to."

It's like these people have no idea what it feels like to live with chronic pain, chronic illnesses, autism, and a host of other ailments that are not only incurable, but intolerable as well.

People seem to think therapists, psychiatrists, and other doctors are shamans who can perform a magic spell and fix everything. They do not realize that even the most renouned of experts are merely human like the rest of us, suspectible to all of the biases, weaknesses, and fallacies that all of mankind can find ourselves entrenched in. In fact, I have learned more from others online who also suffer from my illnesses, than I ever have from any "professional".

I think a ton of people just refuse to accept that many things are out of our control. We can cheat biology as much as we like, but we still haven't discovered or understood everything there is to know about the human body and experience. Some answers do not exist, and there is not an all knowing expert with a diploma tacked on the wall who can elucidate this unknown. Thomas Szaz writes some very interesting books about this phenomena.

Do people think you are crazy if you tell them that nothing helped you? People certainly think I'm merely stubborn or uncooperative when I tell them that the so called experts have ruined my life rather than provided any tangible assistance. This treatment makes me more suicidal, yet they don't realise it.

Oh, and they also make this face at me.

Unfortunately there is so much ignorance around mental health. So much so that some people suggest doing things that obviously will not help.
For example I was once told by a friend who is into mysticism type stuff that I should consult a shaman (witch). Obviously complete nonsense.

It is a sad fact that mental health services all over the world are not delivering an effective service to end users.
Money is always blamed for this, but frankly more often than not the health service doesn't have the right people working in it.

 

[Lucien]

i recently visited a top spinal surgeon, who told me that there is nothing more that can be done, after countless amounts of surgeries. When I was younger I got angry with drs when they said "oh you just have to live with it". But now as an adult, looking at my radio images, I can see it is pretty much a one-way road. One rule I stick by , is not blaming people who tries to help, I always look at the intention, and not so much to what they saying. Some people are very bitter towards their doctors, I certainly cannot agree to any type of bitterness in life, as it aggravates one's suffering.

No need to reply if you don't feel comfortable sharing. What was your diagnosis?

 

[luten]

No need to reply if you don't feel comfortable sharing. What was your diagnosis?

Diagnosis were made many years ago, but as things are progressing, i thought we could do more reconstructive surgery. Arnold Chiari Malformation Syringomyelia, which caused many other surgical problems, as it destroys the spinal cord.

 

[Symbiote]

"You chose depression because you want to be the victim"
"Choose a different therapist"
"Stop being a victim, you know who the real victims are? Starving children in Africa!"
"Just wake up, it's all in your head"
"Take responsibility! Be Mindful! Be Thoughtful!"
"Stop using your illness as a crutch to get what you want, that's manipulation"


*sigh* They always say talk to supportive people, but if I talk, I get the above and that makes me feel even worse. So I don't talk about it anymore with anyone in the real world.

 

[luten]

i post i did about the condition https://sanctioned-suicide.net/threads/this-is-what-it-looks-like.63218/

Diagnosis were made many years ago, but as things are progressing, i thought we could do more reconstructive surgery. Arnold Chiari Malformation Syringomyelia, which caused many other surgical problems, as it destroys the spinal cord.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

If I mention my condition my parents are quick to suggest the very thing that didn't work to "gEt BeTTeR" (meds, therapy). Would be cool if they could at least talk about yoga or keto lol, would be less retarded to pick literally anything but what has already proven ineffective. I'm a grown ass man, despite living with parents and being a NEET, so I just refuse to do any of that shit again. At this point my parents have no power over me. They can kick me out (would be very surprised if they did), then I'll do full suspension in the woods (or partial or carotid slashing).

I won't get better unless I get very, very, very lucky. And I'm not a lucky guy.

Great lines in this thread for that off-topic game thread "clichés", btw, lol.

 

[luten]

If I mention my condition my parents are quick to suggest the very thing that didn't work to "gEt BeTTeR" (meds, therapy). Would be cool if they could at least talk about yoga or keto lol, would be less retarded to pick literally anything but what has already proven ineffective. I'm a grown ass man, despite living with parents and being a NEET, so I just refuse to do any of that shit again. At this point my parents have no power over me. They can kick me out (would be very surprised if they did), then I'll do full suspension in the woods (or partial or carotid slashing).

I won't get better unless I get very, very, very lucky. And I'm not a lucky guy.

Great lines in this thread for that off-topic game thread "clichés", btw, lol.

have they ever mentioned kicking you out?

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

have they ever mentioned kicking you out?

No, but I've mentioned it several times. Sort of wish they did, family is a reason against killing myself and homelessness is a great reason to kill myself. I'm sort of close to doing it as a comfy NEET that is chilling on the forum, hitting the gym and applying for jobs (not sure why I even do this, LOL). If I was homeless I would be very, very, very below my tolerance level of life.

 

[luten]

No, but I've mentioned it several times. Sort of wish they did, family is a reason against killing myself and homelessness is a great reason to kill myself. I'm sort of close to doing it as a comfy NEET that is chilling on the forum, hitting the gym and applying for jobs (not sure why I even do this, LOL). If I was homeless I would be very, very, very below my tolerance level of life.

ok , so we have something in common, that is where i also draw the line, i cant be on the streets with my medical issues, it is not possible. However, i am living alone.

 

[WornOutLife]

They tell me things like the ones you wrote, dear.
Especially, "You have to stop being so negative when people and professionals are trying to help you." and I'm like "help me? Telling me "life is precious" does not help at all guys..."

 

[Symbiote]

They tell me things like the ones you wrote, dear.
Especially, "You have to stop being so negative when people and professionals are trying to help you." and I'm like "help me? Telling me "life is precious" does not help at all guys..."

Or this, "You only have one life to live, why waste it?"

 

[demuic]

People don't want to acknowledge that for a lot of people, psychiatry and therapy are ineffective. It goes against the narrative that suicide is always preventable and life is always worth living.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Or this, "You only have one life to live, why waste it?"

"I don't want to eat this hotdog now that I dropped it in dog shit."

"Why waste it bro!? The stand is closed, you won't get another one, like ever!"

 

[Trisolaris]

They don't believe me. They blame my condition on my "illness" and say that the damage that was done is impossible.

 

[Rustysoupcan]

I feel that. I always get "you're so young, you'll figure it out" "you're too young to die". I know I'm young (20) but I've also had depression since childhood and nothing I've tried really works. Thankfully my depression is episodic so I get relief sometimes, but it's only for about 2-3 months before I'm down again for a few more months. I also get "you havent tried everything yet" since I havent tried ECT or every single psych med available. "You have to help yourself" is a classic, makes me irritated because they really dont understand how hopeless I get and how if I dont care about myself enough to eat, then I definitely dont care enough to exercise.

 

[Lmd]

If I talk about my experience with therapy, everyone says I should have sued my last psychology. They still try to encourage me to visit another one (in a good way) but I just don't want to. My friends are really supportive with me and when I talk about it with new people they are actually supportive too or talk about their experiences and how they feel with themselves. I think it's because of the way I express myself now and how I choose the moments to talk about it.

 

[Carrotcake]

Lol I have experienced rage like never before when people tell me "you should really try mindfulness".

 

[Symbiote]

Lol I have experienced rage like never before when people tell me "you should really try mindfulness".

OMG, i hate mindfulness, still have no idea what it is...or how to "practice" it. Nowadays, when they say it, it just clues me into stfu.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

I find that people don't care when you express that professional help in the form of cognitive therapy or other types of therapy and drugs are not effective. Well meaning but completely out of their depth people have no idea the level of self hatred and desire for relief that exists in a significant portion of the population with treatment resistant depression. Since the result of this diagnosis is either live with the pain or not and it doesn't result in a cancer or heart disease related death they can't have an awareness fun run and since they don't understand it anyway the only resource is to say "have you tried xyz" or "you're not trying hard enough" or "give it a chance" or "you have so much to live for".

Sometimes I wish there was a simulation of hopelessness that someone could sit down and see the feedback loop of self hatred and desire for relief.

It's never ever addressed or even acknowledged by well meaning individuals and I think that as long as they don't acknowledge it there will continue to be tens of thousands of people seeking suicide.

You and everyone else on this thread are spot on. These other people really do want to help, but they can't see how bad the problem is, or how ineffective most treatments are. They fundamentally do not understand. If you're not immediately dying, you must not be trying!

For my degree I have to read a lot of research papers in this field. Drug studies, particularly those involving antipsychotics, are appalling. One paper I read showed that side effects of an AP (I believe risperidone) mixed with an SSRI had over a 32% chance of side effects such as tardive dyskenesia, increased risk for diabetes/altered glucose metabolism, nausea, and other things that were certainly not mild.

If I had just read the conclusions section of this paper, "No abnormal side effects have been reported," rather than digging deep into the literature, I would have had no idea about the low success rates of these drug combos, nor would I know how common the side effects were.

In any other specialism of pharmacology, this level of negligence would not fly. Psychiatry and psychology get some sort of unique protection that is incredibly baffling. People simply don't want to admit that things need to change, and that many of the current treatments simply are not working.

I'm not even depressed, PTSD is my main issue, yet people throw the same things at me too. The exact same treatments and therapies for an issue that is fundamentally different. Ironically, this makes me depressed.

People like to pretend as if ptsd and many other issues labeled as mental are purely psychological products stemming from a lack of willpower, when that simply isn't true. My ptsd is involuntary and cannot be managed using some breathing techniques or meditation videos on Youtube.

Peopke act like I am crazy when I tell them that I think ptsd is neurological. Any studies and books worth their salt on ptsd confirm that there are structural changes in the brain from trauma, that do not respond to SSRIs and CBT. Yet, this is all you will be offered alongside EDMR, which once again, I find does not help at all.

I don't need talk therapy, I need a real honest to god treatment, and that's what they are blind to. They think we just feel a little sad or scared. They cannot fathom how horrible it feels to have flashbacks and be tormented by memories, or unconscious physical responses like fight or flight, arousal, nausea, etc. They think it is solely 100% in your head and you can control it.

From a neuroscience perspective, I have no idea how people can be this ignorant about how brains function. My real, physical pain from chronic illness also gets treated as psychological. When your abusers are in this very system, the doctors who violated you, how can you trust anyone when they mock you, hurt you, and deny you any pain relief because they are the all knowing gatekeepers? I have to self medicate because they genuinely do not help me.

One doctor wrote me a script for something I had just spent 10 minutes explaining about how it did not work for my IBS. I asked him before he left if he was going to give me any pain relief. He smirked and put down the script for the very thing that I said didn't work. Absolute madness, yet they say we are the crazy ones.

People just don't understand. I can't wait to ctb so i don't have to put up with their misguided efforts anymore. The day I never have to think again about doctors and how they violated me giving me this horrible PTSD will be truly relieving.

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

OMG, i hate mindfulness, still have no idea what it is

What?

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

What?

Be more mindful of your lack of mindfulness, duh. Now go clean your room! (sponsored by Jordan B. Peterson)

 

[Symbiote]

Be more mindful of your lack of mindfulness, duh. Now go clean your room! (sponsored by Jordan B. Peterson)

But my room is already clean, in fact my entire house is spotless. Thanks Jordan Peterson for exacerbating my OCD!

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

But my room is already clean, in fact my entire house is spotless. Thanks Jordan Peterson for exacerbating my OCD!

Be more mindful of your lack of mindfulness, duh. Now go clean your room! (sponsored by Jordan B. Peterson)

 

[Lucien]

The most mindful people I've observed are just exhausted from physical or intellectual labour. I also suspect they've given up on the concept of lasting happiness and firmly believe that stance has merits.

 

[TotallyIsolated]

View attachment 64829

That all-leather diet works wonders