Help How lethal is Nembutal?

[Peace!]

I've seen people say they survived 15-16 grams.

 

[Stopthepain]

Hard to believe that someone actually survived N. I dont want to be disrespectful but there are no reported cases that survived N. I just dont believe everyone who writes stuff in a forum. Maybe u really experienced it, if so I am rly sorry. But as long there are no real reports i rather believe it is not possible to survive it( oc sadly everything is possible) but hm.. dunno. I have just never read of 1 reported case and everyone i knew who Too N is dead by now.

 

[peacefulhorizons]

Hard to believe that someone actually survived N. I dont want to be disrespectful but there are no reported cases that survived N. I just dont believe everyone who writes stuff in a forum. Maybe u really experienced it, if so I am rly sorry. But as long there are no real reports i rather believe it is not possible to survive it( oc sadly everything is possible) but hm.. dunno. I have just never read of 1 reported case and everyone i knew who Too N is dead by now.

There are quite a few reported "failures" (aka being found too early) in medical literature. The case studies aren't hard to find.

 

[Stopthepain]

Ah I see. Yea only in case someome find you too Early but never under safe circumstances
Luckily nobody would enter my home cause close people know my Plans cause of my incursble illness and they are Afraid to find me dead

 

[GreenMile]

Thank you for your condolences @forevernonescaped. It's just the way of life. We all have an unavoidable appointment with death. It's that for me and my family (parents), that we are all rapidly running out of time to exist much longer. I always knew this day would come and I used to talk about this with my mother. But she would say that was still 20 or 30 years away. Well, 20 or 30 years have passed and here it is already. Perhaps with all that is happening now in the world (re: COVID and the ensuing lockdowns, economic hardships, the heavy hand of government on all of us, rising inflation & crime, etc...) maybe my mother has effectively chosen the best time to pass away. Probably better to go during the bad times than the good times.

I have thought that too, that the N I have is the best option. The N from J was purchased well before he disappeared and before the Spanish testing lab came on the scene. I've heard all sorts of things from that lab too that they were not as reliable as first thought. So like everything, it's a crapshoot. I have 25 grams of N from J and I will probably use at least 20, if not all of it, with a bag as extra "insurance". I understand that some people don't like the idea of a bag over their head. But really, after passing out, you won't know the difference.

The bowel prep was a thought just to be on the safe side. I've taken cleanses like this in the past and it worked just fine and there was no nausea or up-set stomach. This would be done probably the day before I plan my exit anyway. Eat lightly during the last day, fast for the hours leading up to the time with only toast and some whiskey. But I thank you for your thoughts on it.

@GreenMile Haha, yeah, a Lazarus experience is a good one. Actually, the only thing I fear from suicide is failing again. I certainly don't want to wake up a second time in a hospital and go through the "Twilight Zone" again. So when the time is right, I hope it will take and it will be over. The world will go on without me just as it had in the past before I came along.

I found the works of Epicurus and Lucretius to have been quite helpful being at peace with all of our eventual passing.

The Epicurean epitaph: Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo ("I was not; I was; I am not; I do not care") pretty much sums it all up.


Also, Mark Twain had some good quotes as well and obviously read the works of Lucretius himself.

"I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born,
and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."
~Mark Twain

Indeed. Life is full of endless inconveniences but death has none.

Or this one:

Life was not a valuable gift, but death was.
Life was a fever-dream made up of joys embittered by sorrows,
pleasure poisoned by pain; a dream that was a nightmare-confusion of spasmodic
and fleeting delights, ecstasies, exultations, happinesses, interspersed with long-drawn
miseries, griefs, perils, horrors, disappointments, defeats, humiliations, and despairs--
the heaviest curse devisable by divine ingenuity; but death was sweet, death was gentle,
death was kind; death healed the bruised spirit and the broken heart, and gave them rest
and forgetfulness; death was man's best friend; when man could endure life no longer,
death came and set him free.

~Letters from the Earth, Mark Twain (1909)

I found this some years ago and I thought he put into words what I was feeling but could not put into words at the time.


Or this:

"The great thing about science is that it's true whether you believe it or not. It's not a question of what your beliefs are. When the heart is no longer able to pump enough oxygen to the brain, the brain will stop working. When the brain stops working, every one of your thoughts, every memory, every aspect of your personality will cease to exist. There is absolutely zero evidence that any aspect of who you are will survive your death, and no reason to think that your consciousness can survive independently of your (soon to be rotting or cremated) brain, since consciousness itself seems to be purely a product of brain function. [try to envision consciousness as a process rather than as an object. Consciousness is a process of the brain.] You will have no awareness of oblivion; you'll have no awareness of anything once you're dead, because 'you' no longer exist in anything other than corpse form."
~Neil de Grasse Tyson, astrophysicist


Then there is this, something that is probably on the minds of everyone on this forum:

Is suicide a sin?

Many people assume the Bible condemns taking one's own life. However, even a careful reader will search in vain for any explicit prohibition of self-killing in the Bible. In fact, the biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. There are seven unambiguous examples of suicide in the Bible: Abimelech, mortally wounded by a millstone, ordered his armor-bearer to dispatch him to avoid the suggestion he had been slain by the woman who had thrown the stone (Judg 9:52-54); the prophet Ahithophel hanged himself after betraying David (2Sam 17:23); Zimri burned down his house around himself after military defeat (1Kgs 16:18); and the more familiar stories of Saul and his armor-bearer (1Sam 1:1-6; 1Chr 10:1-6), Samson, (Judg 16:28), and, of course, Jesus' disciple Judas—although it is only in Matthew's Gospel where he kills himself (Matt 27:3-5; compare with Acts 1:18). There is nothing in any of these stories to suggest that the biblical narrators disapprove of the characters' suicides.

Suicide in the ancient world did not carry the same negative connotations as it does today. For Greco-Roman philosophers, suicide in correct circumstances constituted a "noble death." Socrates (469-399 B.C.) chose to drink hemlock rather than endure exile, a choice enthusiastically endorsed by most of the philosophical schools at the time. If carried out for country or friends, or in the face of intolerable pain, incurable disease, devastating misfortune or shame, or to avoid capture on the battlefield, suicide constituted a noble death.


Who is this philosopher you are reading? Seems like a very contradictory thing to say that the meaninglessness of life is the reason to live. Then write how nice it would be to leap into the void. Well, to each his or her own. It is your life, you can choose to do what you want at any time. Live until you can no longer or cut it short because you cannot bare it any longer.

From Lucretius:
For if there is going to be unhappiness and suffering, the person must also himself
exist at that same time, for the evil to be able to befall him. Since death robs him of this,
preventing the existence of the person for the evils to be heaped upon, you can tell that
there is nothing for us to fear in death, that he who does not exist cannot be unhappy, and
that when immortal death snatches away a mortal life it is no different from never having
been born.


I'll close with how Lucretius closes his section on death with this:
Nor do we, or can we, by prolonging life subtract anything from the time of death, so as perhaps to
shorten our period of extinction! Hence you may live to see out as many centuries as you
like: no less will everlasting death await you. No shorter will be the period of nonexistence for one who has ended his life from today than for one who perished many months or years ago.

Describing nothingness requires so much poetic skill @just_wanna_die, there's deep comfort for me in the sentiments expressed by you and the authors you mention in your reply. The way you describe it as dreamless sleep, the way Lucretius describes the void; at this point in life these things have an epic resonance as well as a peacefulness which is a new, unexpected and very welcome experience. I'm slowly but surely letting go of the angst of life, death and dying, the sense of relief is for me unspeakable.

The philosopher I mentioned is Emil Cioron. Others have pointed out the contradictions in his work. My description doesn't do him justice either in fairness, there are many subtleties that are lost in translation. He is far from a black and white thinker which unfortunately I can be.

Things he wrote that would of seemed trite or just clever for the sake of seeming so a year ago have incredible relevance now. He will say that if it were it not for the idea of suicide he would of killed himself long ago. When my N arrived it took the urgency out of CTB. Now I can take my time, hours, days or months if I like. It's radically changed my perspective on who and what I am.

Dominant concerns like fear of failure, what others think of me, putting on a brave face, I've recognized as ridiculous and the revelation is that they should of been all along anyway. Cioron argues that lightness and sharpness of being is accessible to anyone considers suicided as a viable option. I'm not sure if I agree with everything he says but at least he gets away from the received wisdom 'suicide bad!'

I had thought that Christianity was were all of that began. So when you point out that in scripture the necessity of suicide is recognized and respected that is good, and suprising news. I will read around that topic as well as Mark Twain as I hadn't read any of his writing.

Your responses have helped me answer some important questions for me, Thanks for your kindness, it's very much appreciated.

 

[MZ18]

I would love to get N. I wish that was an option. If animals get to have a peaceful death, why not me?

 

[just_wanna_die]

Describing nothingness requires so much poetic skill @just_wanna_die, there's deep comfort for me in the sentiments expressed by you and the authors you mention in your reply. The way you describe it as dreamless sleep, the way Lucretius describes the void; at this point in life these things have an epic resonance as well as a peacefulness which is a new, unexpected and very welcome experience. I'm slowly but surely letting go of the angst of life, death and dying, the sense of relief is for me unspeakable.

The philosopher I mentioned is Emil Cioron. Others have pointed out the contradictions in his work. My description doesn't do him justice either in fairness, there are many subtleties that are lost in translation. He is far from a black and white thinker which unfortunately I can be.

Things he wrote that would of seemed trite or just clever for the sake of seeming so a year ago have incredible relevance now. He will say that if it were it not for the idea of suicide he would of killed himself long ago. When my N arrived it took the urgency out of CTB. Now I can take my time, hours, days or months if I like. It's radically changed my perspective on who and what I am.

Dominant concerns like fear of failure, what others think of me, putting on a brave face, I've recognized as ridiculous and the revelation is that they should of been all along anyway. Cioron argues that lightness and sharpness of being is accessible to anyone considers suicided as a viable option. I'm not sure if I agree with everything he says but at least he gets away from the received wisdom 'suicide bad!'

I had thought that Christianity was were all of that began. So when you point out that in scripture the necessity of suicide is recognized and respected that is good, and suprising news. I will read around that topic as well as Mark Twain as I hadn't read any of his writing.

Your responses have helped me answer some important questions for me, Thanks for your kindness, it's very much appreciated.

@GreenMile

I read your post last night and wanted to give you an in-depth reply.

I felt the same way as you do when I first received my N. It was this sense of relief that I have something that I can take myself out with peacefully, painlessly, fearlessly, and bloodlessly, when I feel it's time. I bought a second batch because I was discussing this with my mother and we had come to something of a pact that can be summed up as "when you go, I go". However, since then, my mother has sunk into Alzheimer's disease and has lost the ability to remember anything, including our pact and how to do it, etc... Now she is in a long term care facility, a place she never wanted to be in, but sadly, it is too late now for her to exit using N without legal consequences. I still can and if I should do so before she passes, it's all right, she will not remember me and she will pass on in due course. Or if I wait until she passes, I can follow soon after and I am preparing for that eventuality right now.

I am glad to hear that my posts have been of value to you. I struggled with the idea to post my experiences here on SS and now that I have, I'm glad that I did. Thank you for telling me that I helped answer some important questions you've had and given you comfort and relief. Perhaps this post will continue that for you and others who happen to come upon it.

I would highly recommend "Lucretius - On the Nature of Things" by Martin Ferguson Smith (Amazon, softcover, its a mostly black cover with white and red text, also available for Kindle) I chose this author because I found his translation to be easier to read and comprehend than others that I had sampled. It is written in clear, plain English. The section covering death starts on page 66 and goes to page 98. It covers a lot of ground in those 32 pages of relatively small print with footnotes.

Lucretius (99 - 54 B.C.) also talked about souls (or spirits) and how the soul and body are born together and die together. One cannot exist without the other. A body without a spirit is a corpse and a spirit without a body is a ghost. He talked about how silly it is to conceive of the mortal and the immortal being yoked together, sharing each other's feelings and experiences as utterly ridiculous! Asking what could be more preposterous, incongruous, and inharmonious than that of a mortal thing being united with something immortal and imperishable, as the 2 together take on the pitiless storms of this life? He asks how do these souls choose to enter which body? Do they have a fight? Well, that wouldn't make sense. How do 2 immortal beings fight or injure each other? How would they declare a victor? Or do they have some agreement of "first come first served"? I mean, it is all so silly when you think of it logically. (It was actually Plato who is credited with the idea of an immortal soul, and he probably got that from something earlier, like the story of "The Odyessy" by Homer (not Simpson). Anyway, the fact is, Lucretius would be in harmony with Genesis 2:7 -- "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." This is saying we humans are the soul when we are alive, not that we have a soul (an immortal ghost) that animates us and is trapped inside our fleshly body that will leave us when the body dies. Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that when we die, our bodies return to the dust and our spirit returns to God who gave it to us. And so I have come to the conclusion that the word "spirit" literally means the life within us. And a soul is what we are as living beings. Therefore we possess no other attributes that make us Human. There is no conscious, ghostly form that leaves the body and goes directly to either Heaven or Hell.

Lucretius covers hell too by basically telling his readers that all the horrible fairytales that we are told that happens in hell actually happen on here on earth when we are alive, not after we die. I have always thought of it more as a state of mind, like when you're in love, you're "in heaven" and when things are all going wrong for you, as they have been for me lately, you're "in hell".

Speaking of hell, I had just recently, like maybe 2 years ago, discovered where hell really came from. The truth about hell is that it began as Egyptian propaganda! It's true. From Egypt, "hell" made its way to Greece, where it was embellished. Finally, and later, much later than people think, it made its way into Christianity, where it has remained to this day. So when did Hell Begin? The earliest Near Eastern religions had NO concept of hell. Instead, they had a dreary underworld, almost like a purgatory where dead people "lived" as ghosts or shades/shadows. That is an awfully rough description. People who are alive are in the "above world" and when they die, we bury them, so then they "live in the underworld", so to speak. "Hell" was an innovation of Egypt's Middle Kingdom, after the Old Kingdom (the bosses who built the pyramids) broke down in 2181 BC. The priests needed a better set of mythologies to keep people in line paying their taxes and obeying the Pharaoh, and this totally made-up story worked like a charm! It was for the purpose of controlling people (I know, what a shock, right?!). It's one thing to control you during your life by sending you to jail, but if they can convince you that they can effectively control you after you've died in some punishing afterlife for eternity, well, that's real power! A group of texts from this period (the Coffin Texts) describes an underworld as containing fiery rivers and lakes, as well as fire demons who threatened the wicked. Anyway, the Greeks added a place called "Tartarus," a pit of punishment that existed inside the larger underworld, which was called "hades." Stop me if any of this starts to sound familiar. Neither the Sumerian religion nor the ancient Hebrew religion had any concept of hell, and later-day Judaism seldom ventures farther than an underworld. The modern version of hell doesn't appear in Christianity until long after Jesus. The earliest explicit mention is from Hippolytus in about 230 AD, some 8 or 10 generations, or 200 years, after Jesus. In fact, the Bible nowhere teaches that heaven is the reward of the saved or that an ever-burning hell is the destiny of the condemned.

Yes, I was shocked too when I came across that because we in Western culture have all been raised directly or indirectly by Christianity. The Judeo-Christian condemnation of suicide does not, therefore, begin in the Bible. Although the commandment against killing (Exod 20:13) is commonly believed to include killing oneself, there is simply no evidence in either the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament to sustain any moral condemnation of suicide.

But if you were to take the time to watch or listen to Biblical scholar Bart Erhman's lectures and the many other videos he has on his YouTube channel you will come to see the Bible is not what we have always thought it was and does not teach what we thought it did. It was very eye opening, to say the least.

For more on hell, look for Dr. Bart D. Erhman's book "Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife".

Or look on YouTube for "Smith-Pettit Lecture - The History of Heaven and Hell" and/or "Life after Death in the Bible and Beyond with OUP" . In both Dr. Erhman gives an interesting lecture on many points in his book explaining where these ideas came from and when, placing them in the proper historical context. (Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary.) He lays out a logical explanation that demystifies these fairytales, so I think many can learn from his works.

While you are on YouTube, you might also want to look up "What happens to your energy when you die?", "What happens to Your Atoms after you die? The Immortal Infinite Journey.", "What does it feel like to die? Neuroscience may have an answer", and "Life After Death", all 4 by Arvin Ash. They are short videos (about 8 minutes each, the 3rd one is more like 13 minutes, the 4th one under 3 minutes) and they give very interesting scientific explanations that are easy to understand.

I mentioned Socrates in my post that you quoted from. For Socrates, death will be one of two things. On one hand, it may entail the longest, most untroubled, deep sleep that could be imagined. And who doesn't enjoy a good sleep? On the other hand, it may involve a conscious existence. That too would be good, even better. It would mean carrying on with life and all its pleasures but none of its pain. For Socrates, the classical world's most famous pursuer of truth, it would mean endless conversations about deep subjects with well-known thinkers of his past. And so the afterlife presents no bad choices, only good ones. Death was not a source of terror or even dread. When, in the end, we pass from this earthly realm, we may indeed have something to hope for, but we have absolutely nothing to fear.

The thing with consciousness is that it's the only state we can know and have known our entire lives. We are constantly surrounded by something. So it is difficult to wrap our heads around the thought of being permanently unconscious and seeing/feeling nothing.

Because of the nature of our consciousness, perhaps part of what we fear about death is the fear of missing out (FOMO). Look at all the things I am going to miss out on after I die! But to me, I look back at history before I was born and think of all the things I missed out on, such as the building of the pyramids, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the time of Jesus, the Dark and Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the French and American Revolutions, World War 1 and 2, and so much more. So if in the future, I miss out on having a honeymoon ON the moon, or winning the lottery, or a cure for cancer, or an asteroid slamming into the earth, or the sun exploding, or whatever, but none of it will matter to me after I've died. I found a post somewhere, I forget where it was, but it was from someone who had posted about losing his friend who died at the age of 18 in a car accident. Now, years later, he was thinking about all the things that he's done (gotten married, had children, etc...) that his lost friend has missed out on. Another person posted a reply and stated how his friend doesn't "know" anything now. He's dead, so he cannot suffer from missing out, because he's not aware of anything. He's not even aware that he is not aware. And who knows, maybe his life would have been painful or dreadful, and death has spared him from that fate. After he died, no harm could ever come to him. So be content in knowing that your lost friend is not suffering. I thought it was a great response.

Being dead is the total and complete absence of all awareness and sensation. If you've ever had a surgical procedure that required general anesthesia, it is just like that. You just blank out and you won't even know it. You feel nothing, the total absence of all awareness and sensation. You don't even know or feel that someone is cutting you open! If you should die during an operation, you wouldn't even realize it.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark,"
~ Stephan Hawking

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts."

~ Albert Einstein, The World As I See It

Death is just the absence of consciousness, not pseudoscience. There is nothing different from our abject consciousness than that of any other organism, aside from abstract thought. And many humans even lack that ability. We're just walking meat lockers for our brains and when that body expires, so too does its engine. A mind is not a spirit, it's an engine and like all engines, it will shut down permanently. The good news is that when it does, we will never know it.

 

[GreenMile]

@GreenMile

I read your post last night and wanted to give you an in-depth reply.

I felt the same way as you do when I first received my N. It was this sense of relief that I have something that I can take myself out with peacefully, painlessly, fearlessly, and bloodlessly, when I feel it's time. I bought a second batch because I was discussing this with my mother and we had come to something of a pact that can be summed up as "when you go, I go". However, since then, my mother has sunk into Alzheimer's disease and has lost the ability to remember anything, including our pact and how to do it, etc... Now she is in a long term care facility, a place she never wanted to be in, but sadly, it is too late now for her to exit using N without legal consequences. I still can and if I should do so before she passes, it's all right, she will not remember me and she will pass on in due course. Or if I wait until she passes, I can follow soon after and I am preparing for that eventuality right now.

I am glad to hear that my posts have been of value to you. I struggled with the idea to post my experiences here on SS and now that I have, I'm glad that I did. Thank you for telling me that I helped answer some important questions you've had and given you comfort and relief. Perhaps this post will continue that for you and others who happen to come upon it.

I would highly recommend "Lucretius - On the Nature of Things" by Martin Ferguson Smith (Amazon, softcover, its a mostly black cover with white and red text, also available for Kindle) I chose this author because I found his translation to be easier to read and comprehend than others that I had sampled. It is written in clear, plain English. The section covering death starts on page 66 and goes to page 98. It covers a lot of ground in those 32 pages of relatively small print with footnotes.

Lucretius (99 - 54 B.C.) also talked about souls (or spirits) and how the soul and body are born together and die together. One cannot exist without the other. A body without a spirit is a corpse and a spirit without a body is a ghost. He talked about how silly it is to conceive of the mortal and the immortal being yoked together, sharing each other's feelings and experiences as utterly ridiculous! Asking what could be more preposterous, incongruous, and inharmonious than that of a mortal thing being united with something immortal and imperishable, as the 2 together take on the pitiless storms of this life? He asks how do these souls choose to enter which body? Do they have a fight? Well, that wouldn't make sense. How do 2 immortal beings fight or injure each other? How would they declare a victor? Or do they have some agreement of "first come first served"? I mean, it is all so silly when you think of it logically. (It was actually Plato who is credited with the idea of an immortal soul, and he probably got that from something earlier, like the story of "The Odyessy" by Homer (not Simpson). Anyway, the fact is, Lucretius would be in harmony with Genesis 2:7 -- "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." This is saying we humans are the soul when we are alive, not that we have a soul (an immortal ghost) that animates us and is trapped inside our fleshly body that will leave us when the body dies. Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that when we die, our bodies return to the dust and our spirit returns to God who gave it to us. And so I have come to the conclusion that the word "spirit" literally means the life within us. And a soul is what we are as living beings. Therefore we possess no other attributes that make us Human. There is no conscious, ghostly form that leaves the body and goes directly to either Heaven or Hell.

Lucretius covers hell too by basically telling his readers that all the horrible fairytales that we are told that happens in hell actually happen on here on earth when we are alive, not after we die. I have always thought of it more as a state of mind, like when you're in love, you're "in heaven" and when things are all going wrong for you, as they have been for me lately, you're "in hell".

Speaking of hell, I had just recently, like maybe 2 years ago, discovered where hell really came from. The truth about hell is that it began as Egyptian propaganda! It's true. From Egypt, "hell" made its way to Greece, where it was embellished. Finally, and later, much later than people think, it made its way into Christianity, where it has remained to this day. So when did Hell Begin? The earliest Near Eastern religions had NO concept of hell. Instead, they had a dreary underworld, almost like a purgatory where dead people "lived" as ghosts or shades/shadows. That is an awfully rough description. People who are alive are in the "above world" and when they die, we bury them, so then they "live in the underworld", so to speak. "Hell" was an innovation of Egypt's Middle Kingdom, after the Old Kingdom (the bosses who built the pyramids) broke down in 2181 BC. The priests needed a better set of mythologies to keep people in line paying their taxes and obeying the Pharaoh, and this totally made-up story worked like a charm! It was for the purpose of controlling people (I know, what a shock, right?!). It's one thing to control you during your life by sending you to jail, but if they can convince you that they can effectively control you after you've died in some punishing afterlife for eternity, well, that's real power! A group of texts from this period (the Coffin Texts) describes an underworld as containing fiery rivers and lakes, as well as fire demons who threatened the wicked. Anyway, the Greeks added a place called "Tartarus," a pit of punishment that existed inside the larger underworld, which was called "hades." Stop me if any of this starts to sound familiar. Neither the Sumerian religion nor the ancient Hebrew religion had any concept of hell, and later-day Judaism seldom ventures farther than an underworld. The modern version of hell doesn't appear in Christianity until long after Jesus. The earliest explicit mention is from Hippolytus in about 230 AD, some 8 or 10 generations, or 200 years, after Jesus. In fact, the Bible nowhere teaches that heaven is the reward of the saved or that an ever-burning hell is the destiny of the condemned.

Yes, I was shocked too when I came across that because we in Western culture have all been raised directly or indirectly by Christianity. The Judeo-Christian condemnation of suicide does not, therefore, begin in the Bible. Although the commandment against killing (Exod 20:13) is commonly believed to include killing oneself, there is simply no evidence in either the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament to sustain any moral condemnation of suicide.

But if you were to take the time to watch or listen to Biblical scholar Bart Erhman's lectures and the many other videos he has on his YouTube channel you will come to see the Bible is not what we have always thought it was and does not teach what we thought it did. It was very eye opening, to say the least.

For more on hell, look for Dr. Bart D. Erhman's book "Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife".

Or look on YouTube for "Smith-Pettit Lecture - The History of Heaven and Hell" and/or "Life after Death in the Bible and Beyond with OUP" . In both Dr. Erhman gives an interesting lecture on many points in his book explaining where these ideas came from and when, placing them in the proper historical context. (Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary.) He lays out a logical explanation that demystifies these fairytales, so I think many can learn from his works.

While you are on YouTube, you might also want to look up "What happens to your energy when you die?", "What happens to Your Atoms after you die? The Immortal Infinite Journey.", "What does it feel like to die? Neuroscience may have an answer", and "Life After Death", all 4 by Arvin Ash. They are short videos (about 8 minutes each, the 3rd one is more like 13 minutes, the 4th one under 3 minutes) and they give very interesting scientific explanations that are easy to understand.

I mentioned Socrates in my post that you quoted from. For Socrates, death will be one of two things. On one hand, it may entail the longest, most untroubled, deep sleep that could be imagined. And who doesn't enjoy a good sleep? On the other hand, it may involve a conscious existence. That too would be good, even better. It would mean carrying on with life and all its pleasures but none of its pain. For Socrates, the classical world's most famous pursuer of truth, it would mean endless conversations about deep subjects with well-known thinkers of his past. And so the afterlife presents no bad choices, only good ones. Death was not a source of terror or even dread. When, in the end, we pass from this earthly realm, we may indeed have something to hope for, but we have absolutely nothing to fear.

The thing with consciousness is that it's the only state we can know and have known our entire lives. We are constantly surrounded by something. So it is difficult to wrap our heads around the thought of being permanently unconscious and seeing/feeling nothing.

Because of the nature of our consciousness, perhaps part of what we fear about death is the fear of missing out (FOMO). Look at all the things I am going to miss out on after I die! But to me, I look back at history before I was born and think of all the things I missed out on, such as the building of the pyramids, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the time of Jesus, the Dark and Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the French and American Revolutions, World War 1 and 2, and so much more. So if in the future, I miss out on having a honeymoon ON the moon, or winning the lottery, or a cure for cancer, or an asteroid slamming into the earth, or the sun exploding, or whatever, but none of it will matter to me after I've died. I found a post somewhere, I forget where it was, but it was from someone who had posted about losing his friend who died at the age of 18 in a car accident. Now, years later, he was thinking about all the things that he's done (gotten married, had children, etc...) that his lost friend has missed out on. Another person posted a reply and stated how his friend doesn't "know" anything now. He's dead, so he cannot suffer from missing out, because he's not aware of anything. He's not even aware that he is not aware. And who knows, maybe his life would have been painful or dreadful, and death has spared him from that fate. After he died, no harm could ever come to him. So be content in knowing that your lost friend is not suffering. I thought it was a great response.

Being dead is the total and complete absence of all awareness and sensation. If you've ever had a surgical procedure that required general anesthesia, it is just like that. You just blank out and you won't even know it. You feel nothing, the total absence of all awareness and sensation. You don't even know or feel that someone is cutting you open! If you should die during an operation, you wouldn't even realize it.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark,"
~ Stephan Hawking

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts."

~ Albert Einstein, The World As I See It

Death is just the absence of consciousness, not pseudoscience. There is nothing different from our abject consciousness than that of any other organism, aside from abstract thought. And many humans even lack that ability. We're just walking meat lockers for our brains and when that body expires, so too does its engine. A mind is not a spirit, it's an engine and like all engines, it will shut down permanently. The good news is that when it does, we will never kno

@GreenMile

I read your post last night and wanted to give you an in-depth reply.

I felt the same way as you do when I first received my N. It was this sense of relief that I have something that I can take myself out with peacefully, painlessly, fearlessly, and bloodlessly, when I feel it's time. I bought a second batch because I was discussing this with my mother and we had come to something of a pact that can be summed up as "when you go, I go". However, since then, my mother has sunk into Alzheimer's disease and has lost the ability to remember anything, including our pact and how to do it, etc... Now she is in a long term care facility, a place she never wanted to be in, but sadly, it is too late now for her to exit using N without legal consequences. I still can and if I should do so before she passes, it's all right, she will not remember me and she will pass on in due course. Or if I wait until she passes, I can follow soon after and I am preparing for that eventuality right now.

I am glad to hear that my posts have been of value to you. I struggled with the idea to post my experiences here on SS and now that I have, I'm glad that I did. Thank you for telling me that I helped answer some important questions you've had and given you comfort and relief. Perhaps this post will continue that for you and others who happen to come upon it.

I would highly recommend "Lucretius - On the Nature of Things" by Martin Ferguson Smith (Amazon, softcover, its a mostly black cover with white and red text, also available for Kindle) I chose this author because I found his translation to be easier to read and comprehend than others that I had sampled. It is written in clear, plain English. The section covering death starts on page 66 and goes to page 98. It covers a lot of ground in those 32 pages of relatively small print with footnotes.

Lucretius (99 - 54 B.C.) also talked about souls (or spirits) and how the soul and body are born together and die together. One cannot exist without the other. A body without a spirit is a corpse and a spirit without a body is a ghost. He talked about how silly it is to conceive of the mortal and the immortal being yoked together, sharing each other's feelings and experiences as utterly ridiculous! Asking what could be more preposterous, incongruous, and inharmonious than that of a mortal thing being united with something immortal and imperishable, as the 2 together take on the pitiless storms of this life? He asks how do these souls choose to enter which body? Do they have a fight? Well, that wouldn't make sense. How do 2 immortal beings fight or injure each other? How would they declare a victor? Or do they have some agreement of "first come first served"? I mean, it is all so silly when you think of it logically. (It was actually Plato who is credited with the idea of an immortal soul, and he probably got that from something earlier, like the story of "The Odyessy" by Homer (not Simpson). Anyway, the fact is, Lucretius would be in harmony with Genesis 2:7 -- "And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and man became a living soul." This is saying we humans are the soul when we are alive, not that we have a soul (an immortal ghost) that animates us and is trapped inside our fleshly body that will leave us when the body dies. Ecclesiastes 12:7 states that when we die, our bodies return to the dust and our spirit returns to God who gave it to us. And so I have come to the conclusion that the word "spirit" literally means the life within us. And a soul is what we are as living beings. Therefore we possess no other attributes that make us Human. There is no conscious, ghostly form that leaves the body and goes directly to either Heaven or Hell.

Lucretius covers hell too by basically telling his readers that all the horrible fairytales that we are told that happens in hell actually happen on here on earth when we are alive, not after we die. I have always thought of it more as a state of mind, like when you're in love, you're "in heaven" and when things are all going wrong for you, as they have been for me lately, you're "in hell".

Speaking of hell, I had just recently, like maybe 2 years ago, discovered where hell really came from. The truth about hell is that it began as Egyptian propaganda! It's true. From Egypt, "hell" made its way to Greece, where it was embellished. Finally, and later, much later than people think, it made its way into Christianity, where it has remained to this day. So when did Hell Begin? The earliest Near Eastern religions had NO concept of hell. Instead, they had a dreary underworld, almost like a purgatory where dead people "lived" as ghosts or shades/shadows. That is an awfully rough description. People who are alive are in the "above world" and when they die, we bury them, so then they "live in the underworld", so to speak. "Hell" was an innovation of Egypt's Middle Kingdom, after the Old Kingdom (the bosses who built the pyramids) broke down in 2181 BC. The priests needed a better set of mythologies to keep people in line paying their taxes and obeying the Pharaoh, and this totally made-up story worked like a charm! It was for the purpose of controlling people (I know, what a shock, right?!). It's one thing to control you during your life by sending you to jail, but if they can convince you that they can effectively control you after you've died in some punishing afterlife for eternity, well, that's real power! A group of texts from this period (the Coffin Texts) describes an underworld as containing fiery rivers and lakes, as well as fire demons who threatened the wicked. Anyway, the Greeks added a place called "Tartarus," a pit of punishment that existed inside the larger underworld, which was called "hades." Stop me if any of this starts to sound familiar. Neither the Sumerian religion nor the ancient Hebrew religion had any concept of hell, and later-day Judaism seldom ventures farther than an underworld. The modern version of hell doesn't appear in Christianity until long after Jesus. The earliest explicit mention is from Hippolytus in about 230 AD, some 8 or 10 generations, or 200 years, after Jesus. In fact, the Bible nowhere teaches that heaven is the reward of the saved or that an ever-burning hell is the destiny of the condemned.

Yes, I was shocked too when I came across that because we in Western culture have all been raised directly or indirectly by Christianity. The Judeo-Christian condemnation of suicide does not, therefore, begin in the Bible. Although the commandment against killing (Exod 20:13) is commonly believed to include killing oneself, there is simply no evidence in either the Hebrew Bible or the New Testament to sustain any moral condemnation of suicide.

But if you were to take the time to watch or listen to Biblical scholar Bart Erhman's lectures and the many other videos he has on his YouTube channel you will come to see the Bible is not what we have always thought it was and does not teach what we thought it did. It was very eye opening, to say the least.

For more on hell, look for Dr. Bart D. Erhman's book "Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife".

Or look on YouTube for "Smith-Pettit Lecture - The History of Heaven and Hell" and/or "Life after Death in the Bible and Beyond with OUP" . In both Dr. Erhman gives an interesting lecture on many points in his book explaining where these ideas came from and when, placing them in the proper historical context. (Bart D. Ehrman is the James A. Gray Distinguished Professor at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. At UNC he has served as both the Director of Graduate Studies and the Chair of the Department of Religious Studies. Professor Ehrman received both his Masters of Divinity and Ph.D. from Princeton Theological Seminary.) He lays out a logical explanation that demystifies these fairytales, so I think many can learn from his works.

While you are on YouTube, you might also want to look up "What happens to your energy when you die?", "What happens to Your Atoms after you die? The Immortal Infinite Journey.", "What does it feel like to die? Neuroscience may have an answer", and "Life After Death", all 4 by Arvin Ash. They are short videos (about 8 minutes each, the 3rd one is more like 13 minutes, the 4th one under 3 minutes) and they give very interesting scientific explanations that are easy to understand.

I mentioned Socrates in my post that you quoted from. For Socrates, death will be one of two things. On one hand, it may entail the longest, most untroubled, deep sleep that could be imagined. And who doesn't enjoy a good sleep? On the other hand, it may involve a conscious existence. That too would be good, even better. It would mean carrying on with life and all its pleasures but none of its pain. For Socrates, the classical world's most famous pursuer of truth, it would mean endless conversations about deep subjects with well-known thinkers of his past. And so the afterlife presents no bad choices, only good ones. Death was not a source of terror or even dread. When, in the end, we pass from this earthly realm, we may indeed have something to hope for, but we have absolutely nothing to fear.

The thing with consciousness is that it's the only state we can know and have known our entire lives. We are constantly surrounded by something. So it is difficult to wrap our heads around the thought of being permanently unconscious and seeing/feeling nothing.

Because of the nature of our consciousness, perhaps part of what we fear about death is the fear of missing out (FOMO). Look at all the things I am going to miss out on after I die! But to me, I look back at history before I was born and think of all the things I missed out on, such as the building of the pyramids, the rise and fall of the Roman Empire, the time of Jesus, the Dark and Middle Ages, the Renaissance, the French and American Revolutions, World War 1 and 2, and so much more. So if in the future, I miss out on having a honeymoon ON the moon, or winning the lottery, or a cure for cancer, or an asteroid slamming into the earth, or the sun exploding, or whatever, but none of it will matter to me after I've died. I found a post somewhere, I forget where it was, but it was from someone who had posted about losing his friend who died at the age of 18 in a car accident. Now, years later, he was thinking about all the things that he's done (gotten married, had children, etc...) that his lost friend has missed out on. Another person posted a reply and stated how his friend doesn't "know" anything now. He's dead, so he cannot suffer from missing out, because he's not aware of anything. He's not even aware that he is not aware. And who knows, maybe his life would have been painful or dreadful, and death has spared him from that fate. After he died, no harm could ever come to him. So be content in knowing that your lost friend is not suffering. I thought it was a great response.

Being dead is the total and complete absence of all awareness and sensation. If you've ever had a surgical procedure that required general anesthesia, it is just like that. You just blank out and you won't even know it. You feel nothing, the total absence of all awareness and sensation. You don't even know or feel that someone is cutting you open! If you should die during an operation, you wouldn't even realize it.

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark,"
~ Stephan Hawking

"I cannot conceive of a God who rewards and punishes his creatures or has a will of the kind that we experience in ourselves. Neither can I nor would I want to conceive of an individual that survives his physical death; let feeble souls, from fear or absurd egoism, cherish such thoughts."

~ Albert Einstein, The World As I See It

Death is just the absence of consciousness, not pseudoscience. There is nothing different from our abject consciousness than that of any other organism, aside from abstract thought. And many humans even lack that ability. We're just walking meat lockers for our brains and when that body expires, so too does its engine. A mind is not a spirit, it's an engine and like all engines, it will shut down permanently. The good news is that when it does, we will never know it.

I'm thankful you chose to write about your experiences here. This conversation has calmed my nerves and helped me make better friends with The Void. I shouldn't be so surprised given your nearly unique experience of it. That you take time and care in responding also speaks volumes.

I'm guessing there will be at least one or two people who will find this thread and will be comforted to hear that the experience of taking N alone is not frightening in the right circumstances. Like you, I'm waiting for triggers. Normal life, transcended by grief. Reading the stories of people here is a reminder that not only am I not alone and can exit reasonably peacefully. I can count myself as lucky and, in a strange way, privileged being able to own the experience.

Vivid out of body experiences in childhood and reading eastern philosophy always made me like the idea that, instead of being in my body, my body is in me. That they were the most visceral experiences of my life made me wonder about spirit. From the little I've read Lucretius writes that the conscious-selve cannot survive death. The richness in his description of that absence, that "there can be no center in infinity', that the ash and the flame are in the wood, that it's atom-to-atom, dust-to-dust, that consciousness is the exception not the norm. It makes that view acceptable and practical to me.

I'm currently on a deep dive of his writing, thankyou for sharing!

 

[just_wanna_die]

I'm thankful you chose to write about your experiences here. This conversation has calmed my nerves and helped me make better friends with The Void. I shouldn't be so surprised given your nearly unique experience of it. That you take time and care in responding also speaks volumes.

I'm guessing there will be at least one or two people who will find this thread and will be comforted to hear that the experience of taking N alone is not frightening in the right circumstances. Like you, I'm waiting for triggers. Normal life, transcended by grief. Reading the stories of people here is a reminder that not only am I not alone and can exit reasonably peacefully. I can count myself as lucky and, in a strange way, privileged being able to own the experience.

Vivid out of body experiences in childhood and reading eastern philosophy always made me like the idea that, instead of being in my body, my body is in me. That they were the most visceral experiences of my life made me wonder about spirit. From the little I've read Lucretius writes that the conscious-selve cannot survive death. The richness in his description of that absence, that "there can be no center in infinity', that the ash and the flame are in the wood, that it's atom-to-atom, dust-to-dust, that consciousness is the exception not the norm. It makes that view acceptable and practical to me.

I'm currently on a deep dive of his writing, thankyou for sharing!

@GreenMile. You're welcome and I am glad that my experience has helped calm your nerves. I guess the 2 main points in my posts were to exit the first time (using N) and not have to wake up as I did. This is why I would recommend using a bag as extra insurance. Yes, the N will probably be enough all by itself, but, things can go wrong, as I found out, and now I will await another trigger to occur to do it again. Using a bag I think will greatly increase the odds of a successful exit. After all, we can go about a month without food. About a week without water but only 3 to 5 minutes without air. So if one's biological engine (the brain) has been "turned off" by N (or anything that would bring about a deep sleep to disable the Hypercapnic Alarm Response) then a peaceful, unfelt, unnoticeable exit into oblivion or the void will follow fairly quickly with the aid of a bag. And secondly, to stress that there is nothing to fear after one has died, regardless of how we meet our eventual appointment with death (old age, disease, accident, homicide, suicide, etc...). As living organisms, we have only 2 alternatives, life and death, or temporary consciousness and permanent unconsciousness, or more to the point, existence and non-existence.

"...when we will no longer exist...you can take it that nothing at all will be able to affect
us and to stir our sensation – not if the earth collapses into sea, and sea into sky.

" 'No more for you the welcome of a joyful home and a good wife. No more will your
children run to snatch the first kiss, and move your heart with unspoken delight.
No more will you be able to protect the success of your affairs and your dependents.
Unhappy man,' they say, 'unhappily robbed by a single hateful day of all
those rewards of life.' What they fail to add is: 'Nor does any yearning for those things
remain in you.' If they properly saw this with their mind, and followed it up in their
words, they would unshackle themselves of great anguish and fear. "

"If life is such a thorn, why do you seek to prolong your existence, when your future,
just as surely as your past, would be ruined and utterly wasted? Why not retire from
the feast of life like a satisfied guest and with equanimity resign yourself to undisturbed rest?"

~Lucretius, On The Nature of Things, 50 B.C.

I wish everyone reading this luck, love, and peace in whatever they choose for themselves.

 

[The Lonely]

@CiproKilledMe I was in the hospital for about 3 weeks (and racked up US$190k in hospital & related bills, none of which I can pay, so if I were left alone, they wouldn't have to pick up that tab either!)

By the way, I did follow the PPeH protocol of eating some dry toast about an hour before I took my N that night. To the best of my knowledge, I did not vomit anything up.

After being in a coma for 2 weeks, my circadian rhythms were all screwed up and I was not able to sleep for literally days! It got so bad that I was hallucinating and hearing voices in my head who I thought were doctors making fun of me and inviting me to their houseboat for a party, all the while I would sometimes wonder why am I in a college dorm room with all these younger 20 something nurses (male & female) coming in and out all the time. I'd never had any hallucinations before, so that was really strange. I also had a bit of pneumonia too after being intubated for those 2 weeks, so that had to be cleared up first with antibiotics. The rehab was mostly getting the strength back into my legs so I could walk again. Although I've been walking daily for decades, it's amazing how 2 weeks of not walking will make you lose your ability to walk! After I was given the all-clear, they naturally sent me to a psych ward where I "volunteered" to be for 7 days. This was a total waste of time and nothing was gained. They wanted me to take some psych meds, but I refused. I told them that I don't have some chemical imbalance in my brain, I have a life that is not worth living anymore. All I have to look forward to is a constant parade of headaches and heartaches. I don't need to hang around another 25 to 35 years suffering through all that sadness and sorrow and in the end, die anyway as some broken, enfeebled old man trapped in a nursing home! So yeah, after 7 days I was released and that was that.

You're welcome @GreenMile.

I suppose it is, as you aptly put it, the blankness of the experience. There is simply nothing after one dies. And nothing is not some other form of something. Nothing is nothing.

For any Christians out there, even the Bible backs me up on this: After death a person: returns to dust (Genesis 3:19, Psalms 104:29), knows nothing (Ecclesiastes 9:5), possesses no mental powers (Psalms 146:4), has nothing to do with anything on earth (Ecclesiastes 9:6, 12:7), does not live (2 Kings 20:1), is in the grave (Job 17:13), and continues not (Job 7:9, 14:10, 12).

Ecclesiastes 3:18 - 21. "I also said to myself, "As for humans, God tests them so that they may see that they are like the animals. 19 Surely the fate of human beings is like that of the animals; the same fate awaits them both: As one dies, so dies the other. All have the same breath; humans have no advantage over animals. Everything is meaningless. 20 All go to the same place; all come from dust, and to dust all return. 21 Who knows if the human spirit rises upward and if the spirit of the animal goes down into the earth?"

I find the part that says "everything is meaningless" to be true. Everything is meaningless. Makes no difference how smart one is, or good looking, rich, famous, etc..., at the end, whatever our accomplishments and failures in life are, it will all become meaningless to us all. As the ancient philosopher Epicurus (341-270 B.C.) basically put it, "When I am present, death is not. When death is present, I am not." Kind of like being in a room with an in-door and out-door. When death walks in, you walk out, never seeing, meeting, or experiencing death. Death is the absence of all awareness and sensation. When you are dead, you will not know you are dead because there is no more you to know anything. By the same token, you will also not know you were ever alive! Death is not a concern for the living because they are alive. Death is not a concern for the dead because they are dead. Being dead is like never having been born. Think of the eons of time that have come and gone before you were born. Was there anything there to be afraid of? It is like nature (or God or the universe, or whatever/whoever) is holding up a mirror to show us what the eons of time will be like after we die. So despite our human capacity to dream up ideas of an afterlife in heaven or hell or nirvana or reincarnation, or whatever, being dead is just a permanent state of unconsciousness. In much the same way that sleep is a temporary state of unconsciousness.

To explore that point a bit more. The closest thing we have to death in life is something we do every day....sleep! Dream researchers tell us that the typical person dreams about 3 hours or so a night. Not all in one block of time, but throughout the night, 5 minutes here, 30 minutes there, maybe for 45 minutes a little later, and so on. But typically, most people sleep 6 to 8 hours a night....so what are we doing during those 4 or 5 hours each night when we aren't dreaming? We are "dead to the world". We sometimes remember some of our dreams when we awake, but we don't remember not dreaming because there is nothing to remember! When we are sunk in deep sleep, we have no concern for ourselves, no frets, no fears, no worries, we see nothing, we hear nothing, we feel nothing, and we could stay that way for all time and never know the difference if we have died. Again, death is nothing to us. Sorry for such a lengthy reply.



Yes, I think that is a good analogy. Nothing in this world is 100% foolproof. Things can and will go wrong and the best laid plans for life, a vacation ... or a suicide can go awry. I would say that the 2 most important parts are to have something that will work (like as pure N as you can find, or whatever it is that you will use, and I have no doubt the N I used was at least 85% pure, possibly higher, due to the fact I was in a deep coma for 2 weeks and I was told later that there was serious consideration I would not come out of it and the "plug" would need to be pulled before long if I didn't. In fact, while I was at the hospital recovering, I had become something of a "celebrity" of sorts because I was the guy who "died and came back to life" and the various nurses and doctors all wanted to see me while I was there) and the second part is to be sure to NOT be found too soon! That was probably my biggest mistake, underestimating the time it would take for me to cbt.

Your story is very rich in details so thank you for your postping.

I share some of your concerns and also made a vast research about the time it will take to death. I read a lot of data collected from Oregon, W. , And Europe institutions…

The emptying stomach is also in my list...it's a good thing to mention to others here.. I just have some questions:

So I didn't understand quite right about the N you intend to use now?
Are you going to buy Powder N from this same old source??
- Why not the liquid form from D? (For example)

- Haven't you considered adding phenytoin to Potentiate? And:

- What about the repercussion of this at the Exit Forum? (Since you are/were member)

Thank you in advance!

 

[just_wanna_die]

Your story is very rich in details so thank you for your postping.

I share some of your concerns and also made a vast research about the time it will take to death. I read a lot of data collected from Oregon, W. , And Europe institutions…

The emptying stomach is also in my list...it's a good thing to mention to others here.. I just have some questions:

So I didn't understand quite right about the N you intend to use now?
Are you going to buy Powder N from this same old source??
- Why not the liquid form from D? (For example)

- Haven't you considered adding phenytoin to Potentiate? And:

- What about the repercussion of this at the Exit Forum? (Since you are/were member)

Thank you in advance!

@The Lonely

Thank you for reading my posts and your comment. My apologies for not seeing it earlier.

I'll jump right in to answer your questions.

I already have a second batch of powdered N (25 grams) that I purchased a few years ago and have stored in a secret location, heat sealed in a double bag of mylar with oxygen-absorbing packets. It was from "Johnson", a PPeH source that I believe is no longer around. I did not choose the liquid only because at the time I wanted more than 6 grams (or 12 if 2 bottles were purchased) when I could get 25 grams of powder. I have not considered phenytoin as a potentiator because it is a prescription drug and I don't have epilepsy so I would not be able to get it prescribed. There were no repercussions on the Exit Forum. At some point, they shut it down as I recall (I am not a current member of the Exit/PPeH forum), and was restarted sometime later with stricter procedures.

I hope this answers your questions.

 

[Eternal Oblivion]

@GreenMile. You're welcome and I am glad that my experience has helped calm your nerves. I guess the 2 main points in my posts were to exit the first time (using N) and not have to wake up as I did. This is why I would recommend using a bag as extra insurance. Yes, the N will probably be enough all by itself, but, things can go wrong, as I found out, and now I will await another trigger to occur to do it again. Using a bag I think will greatly increase the odds of a successful exit. After all, we can go about a month without food. About a week without water but only 3 to 5 minutes without air. So if one's biological engine (the brain) has been "turned off" by N (or anything that would bring about a deep sleep to disable the Hypercapnic Alarm Response) then a peaceful, unfelt, unnoticeable exit into oblivion or the void will follow fairly quickly with the aid of a bag. And secondly, to stress that there is nothing to fear after one has died, regardless of how we meet our eventual appointment with death (old age, disease, accident, homicide, suicide, etc...). As living organisms, we have only 2 alternatives, life and death, or temporary consciousness and permanent unconsciousness, or more to the point, existence and non-existence.

"...when we will no longer exist...you can take it that nothing at all will be able to affect
us and to stir our sensation – not if the earth collapses into sea, and sea into sky.

" 'No more for you the welcome of a joyful home and a good wife. No more will your
children run to snatch the first kiss, and move your heart with unspoken delight.
No more will you be able to protect the success of your affairs and your dependents.
Unhappy man,' they say, 'unhappily robbed by a single hateful day of all
those rewards of life.' What they fail to add is: 'Nor does any yearning for those things
remain in you.' If they properly saw this with their mind, and followed it up in their
words, they would unshackle themselves of great anguish and fear. "

"If life is such a thorn, why do you seek to prolong your existence, when your future,
just as surely as your past, would be ruined and utterly wasted? Why not retire from
the feast of life like a satisfied guest and with equanimity resign yourself to undisturbed rest?"

~Lucretius, On The Nature of Things, 50 B.C.

I wish everyone reading this luck, love, and peace in whatever they choose for themselves.

I've readed all of your posts in this thread and I must say your thoughts on death are calming. You are also a very talented writer and I was delited to read it.

 

[just_wanna_die]

I've readed all of your posts in this thread and I must say your thoughts on death are calming. You are also a very talented writer and I was delited to read it.

Thank you Eternal Oblivion! I appreciate your kind words and sentiment.

 

[lmon]

Imagine how I felt when I woke up in a hospital and was told that I have been in a coma for almost 2 weeks. Not exactly the news I wanted to hear! The funny thing is, when you want to cbt, you will never know if you were successful ... UNLESS you wake up in a hospital. When you're dead, you won't know you're dead -or that you were ever alive! There is no more you to know anything! (As a side note, I read the ancient book by Lucretius, "On The Nature of Things" (written about 50 B.C.) and he has a large section on death and how it is nothing to us. Very interesting and based on my own personal experience from 3 years ago, I think he was right. Whatever fear of death I may have had in the past is gone.

I feel the only way to know for sure going INTO it is to get MAID. *sigh*

I would love to get N. I wish that was an option. If animals get to have a peaceful death, why not me?

Yeah I don't understand the logic. "The right thing to do" for animals, but "immoral and wronfg" for humans. that is not consistent. Must be about money.

 

[justtiredofit]

I feel the only way to know for sure going INTO it is to get MAID. *sigh*

Yeah I don't understand the logic. "The right thing to do" for animals, but "immoral and wronfg" for humans. that is not consistent. Must be about money.

Just wish MAiD wasn't so difficult to get approved.

 

[Treeline589]

This story almost scares me

 

[june]

Actually, I survived about 15 grams of N about 3 years ago. I'm new here and this is my first post. I'm a male who was in his late 40s at the time and wanted to end it all for a variety of reasons (I won't bore you with the details) and a few years prior I had purchased the PPeH book and ordered powered N from a Chinese chemical company that was listed in the book. It arrived without incident and I felt pleased that I had this in my possession to take whenever I felt I wanted to exit. I felt assured that it was the real deal as it was exactly as shown in the photos of the book and had been tested by EXIT to be pure. Others had posted in the Exit forum at that time that they too had ordered from the same Chinese source around the same time that I had, they had it tested and it was between 88-92% pure, certainly good enough for an exit. I kept the N powder stored in a heat sealed thick mylar bag with oxygen absorbing packets to keep it from degrading.

A few years go by and my life was getting worse and it was time for me to go. One night at about midnight, after preparing everything carefully in advance to be propped up in my bed (not lying down), took several stat doses of antiemetic (Domperidone, aka: Motilium) 30 minutes prior to avoid potential vomiting, and swallowed 15 grams of dissolved N in a 50ml of water, followed by a shot of vodka, positioned myself in bed and closed my eyes for what I thought would be the last time. After that, I remember nothing. There was no pain, no fear, no dreams, nothing! Not even blackness. I saw nothing, heard nothing, felt nothing, thought nothing. Don't even remember "falling asleep" (of course we never really do when was go to bed each night. The next day you don't remember exactly when you fell asleep, right?) The only memories I have were when I was starting to wake up after what I was told was a 12 to 13 day long coma. I was out for nearly 2 weeks, but to me, it could have been 12 to 13 hours or 12 to 13 years. Time was irrelevant to me. I had dreams of seeing in my mind's eye what I can only describe as moving walls of "Christmas wrapping paper" and the sound of silly high pitched music like what you might hear at a circus or carnival. I think that was probably the sound of the beeping noise from the life support equipment that I could unconsciously hear and was created into "music" my mind's ear, so to speak. I also had dreams of being at home in front of my computer, but it wasn't my computer. But rather a large wall with monitors that did not show anything, but set up like a large tic tac toe square on the wall, and whatever I wanted or looked up on my "computer", would magically appear. Cars, women, bricks of gold. Very strange. While still in some state of coma, I remember wondering why has this never happened before? I also remember hearing the soft gentle voice of a female nurse telling me it will be all right. I had a series of tubes down my throat and she said that the doctor will have to take those out but he's not here right now. At some point, I started convulsing and I could hear the nurse say things like calm down, it will be ok, and injected me with something and then all I could feel was peace and a kind of gentle "falling backward into fog" as I fell to sleep again. At some point, I awoke and a doctor, probably a neurologist, walked in and asked me "what your name?" I told him. "Who is the president of the United States?" I told him (Trump at the time) and he just shook his head and said "unbelievable!" and walked out. I guess they figured I was going to be a vegetable or seriously brain damaged.

I don't know exactly what happened, but I must have been found some time that morning, about 6 or 7 o'clock in the morning, or about 6 or 7 hours after taking my N. For whatever reason, it was not enough time to kill me. Just put me into a deep sleep and gave me a very weak pulse that was still to be felt from what I was told later. Of course, I have no recollection of being "worked on" by paramedics. After awaking in the hospital, one of the other doctors told me I was very lucky because they said I was dead or very VERY near death and that he had never had a patient so close to death and still come back. He even said "I guess it wasn't your time to go yet", or words to that effect.

Well, I made a full recovery and in the past 3 years since this happened, my life has only gotten worse still. My dogs have died, my mother, who was my best and only friend has sunk into Alzheimer's disease and doesn't remember much of anything, and is now in a long term care facility. Because of COVID, I can't come to see her, thus can't she see me. The next time I get to see her, whenever that will be, she may not remember who I am. It's a nightmare. Just waiting for my mother to die and I can't imagine living in a world without my mother. I don't have any siblings, no friends to speak of, and I am not married and don't have children. Thankfully, no kids to mourn my passing.

I have another batch of N that I purchased from a different Chinese supplier, "Johnson" from the PPeH book a few years back, and will try again. But this time I will use an "exit bag". This I think should speed up the process and kill me well within 6 to 7 hours. Perhaps as little as 2 hours. The N is a deep sedative and should peacefully knock me out within 2 or 3 minutes (as it did the first time) and keep me immobile so that the Hypercapnic Alarm Response would not kick in when CO2 levels inside the bag build up while I'm out. I was planning on using a 96 gallon garbage bag. Why so large? I read that a 30 gallon bag would have enough air in for 30 minutes, but realistically, closer to 15 minutes, before the CO2 levels build up. If that is accurate, then a 96 gallon bag would offer about 45 minutes and that should be plenty of time for the N to take full hold of me and keep me immobilized in a deep sleep/coma, overriding any Hypercapnic Alarm Response.

An older version of the PPeH book explains how using over-the-counter sleeping pills as a sedative, like Temaze / Temazepam oxazepam / Serapax Nitrazepam / Mogadon all from the benzodiazepine family of drugs/sleeping pills and are not lethal in and of themselves, even in overdose. But crushing up 25 tablets of these pills in water would be a reliable and peaceful way to go using an Exit Bag as the pills will sedate the taker before the Hypercapnic Alarm Response activates. If that is accurate, the same should be true after taking a high overdose of N. If I had used a bag 3 years ago, I probably would not be here today. I would have had a successful exit then on my first try. But I can do it again with my N (this time take more, perhaps over 20 grams) and use a bag and I should be left undisturbed for at least 8 to 10 hours if I take this at midnight. By the way, I also have a bottle of Sodium Azide (SA) and Sodium Nitrite (SN), found both on Amazon, and have been debating if one of those would be just as good or better than N, only because the last time the N failed me. But then again, that may not have been the fault of the N, but to being found an hour or 2 too early. If I had not been found when I was, maybe I would have expired, catching the bus as I wanted to if I had been found an extra hour or 2 later. No way to know, just speculation. I do know that N slows your central nervous system (CNS) and your breathing slows and eventually stops, but that could take hours, every person is different. This is why I am going to use the bag in conjunction with the N the next time (with slower and more shallow breathing, having a 96 gallon bag over me may allow for more than 45 minutes of air before CO2 levels build up, maybe more than an hour, who knows? But it should do me in after about 2 hours. I get that time figure from the PPeH book detailing the story of an Australian man who successfully did himself in using those sleeping pills mentioned above, a shot of whiskey to wash away the bitter taste, and an exit bag that he made. He waited for the sleeping pills to take effect by using his thumbs to hold the bag open so he could breathe, but as he fell asleep, his arms would fall down, allowing the elastic at the opening of the bag to gently fit around his neck and within about 1 or 2 hours, he was gone. I expect similar results with my N, some whiskey, and a large bag. I also plan to wear a cap or visor as the bill/brim will keep the bag from being sucked into my mouth when I am out. I also think another important point that not many have thought of is to be sure to clean out one's bowels before taking any N or SN or whatever. It seems to me that you not only want to have an empty stomach (to help avoid vomiting), but you also want to have empty intestines so that your N or SN will be fully absorbed down there to enter your bloodstream as quickly as possible. If one is constipated, that may not happen and possibly result in failure. So I plan to clean myself out in the days before I go using psyllium seeds husks. This should increase my chances of a successful exit. If anyone has any thoughts or comments on what I've posted here, please share. Thanks for reading.

Thanks for sharing, it is a good read