How do you distiguish between rational and irrational fears about methods?

[GrumpyFrog]

Hey, everyone!
There is something that has really been driving me up the wall. I am an anxious person and I have a hard time drawing the line between rational and irrational fears. I have extensive history of getting caught up on things that only had a small chance of happening and treating them as something that is very probable if not definite, and making really dumb radical decisions because of that. I wish it made me a more careful person, but in reality it mostly makes me go crazy with anxiety until I snap and do stuff of "quitting my job because I am going to be fired anyway" variety just to relieve the tension. Me being self-aware about this isn't super helpful, because in the moment I can't draw the line between the reasonable precaution and anxious bullshit.
And currently I am absolutely caught up on fears about methods. I have fears of getting tardive dyskinesia that leaves me permanently disabled from one meto, fears of being permanently disabled by SN, fears of being permanently disabled by full suspension hanging. And all of this combined still doesn't make me not want to CTB. Instead it is slowly pushing me towards thinking of more gruesome methods that can potentially cause harm to others and towards using them sooner because my brain is driving me up the wall. I recognize that this is not good, but I don't know how to help myself.
I thought that there might be people on this forum that might have an idea of how to distinguish between rational and irrational fear specifically when it comes to methods. I tend to ask for an outside perspective, sometimes from multiple people, when I'm stuck in this mindset, but with CTB methods I know that pretty much everywhere people will just try to scare me further even if it is irrational, without realizing that it is not going to make me less suicidal because mentally I'm well beyond the point of being scared out of CTB. Any advice? I know it sounds like a very vague question, but I don't know how to formulate it better. I am shit at making scary decisions, that's the problem.
Thanks for reading.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

It's normal to have these fears. There are no guarantees and the consequences of a failed attempt can be devastating. The purpose of suicide is to escape suffering after all, not to compound what you go through in life. A lot of failed attempts that have consequences are due to being interrupted and "saved". So for instance a lot of people who were left disabled from hanging were cut down before they were dead. So you really have to be wise about ensuring you're not discovered.

How likely is it to develop tardive dyskenesia from one use of meto? Usually it takes months of consistent usage to develop that condifion. Your goal is not to survive SN anyway and when properly prepared even if there are no guarantees that's still a very achievable goal.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I'm just like you. I constantly catastrophize about everything.

It's a difficult one with CTB though because- sadly- sometimes things can go wrong and- seeing as we're pessimists, we become convinced we we'll be in that percentage.

The worst part is- we're largely on our own too- that particular pressure would be taken off us if we were allowed assisted suicide at a clinic- they'd make sure it didn't fail.

All I do to try and reassure myself is think I will try and follow the guidelines here as closely as possible. I'm considering SN too. I think I would definitely do both the blood and aquarium test to check its purity- to try and ease my mind on that one. I do have some meto but it's out of date. That troubles me a bit but I also feel like it will probably be ok. Honestly, I took the stuff blindly when it was prescribed- without even worrying about tardive dyskinesia. Must have missed that in the small print on the leaflet.

Taking 30mg at once DOES trouble me. Still- I tell myself- it will only be a problem if the attempt fails- so I need to do everything I can to make it work. I would definitely make up 2-3 SN drinks and I'm wondering if a back up plan is sensible. Not too sure what that could be though. I would need to be 'well' enough to do it. Suppose I think a second method set up ready might be helpful.

Sadly though- it's all a risk. All we can possibly do is minimise it. Keep telling myself- 'life has had plenty of risks in- makes sense that if I REALLY want out- death will too... He/ she who dares wins- and all that.'

 

[Un-]

If you know what the process of dying entails, you should be good. Like, let's say you were gonna hang yourself. You know you need at least an hour to be gone. You know you'll thrash. You know, ideally, to constrict your artery(ies) in your neck. You know you need a strong support, good rope, and so on.

You know how hanging works. The chances of you messing it up, if you follow everything to a tee, are low. The same thing goes with most methods that aren't hogwash.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the people that most probably failed, probably didn't do everything properly. Or, if they did, their own anxieties got to them. If you do everything properly, and you're as prepared as you should be, then everything will be okay.

That's how I think about it at least. There's nothing wrong with having fear. But you have to promise yourself to not disobey logic: if you do everything right, how high, really, are your chances of fucking it up?

 

[FuneralCry]

I guess that the irrational fears are the ones where someone fears something that has basically no chance of happening, like if someone had a guaranteed method with no risk of failing. But to me it's understandable to have fears of failing. Methods can potentially go wrong and this scares me as well. Ctb isn't easy after all, and we want so badly to succeed, and often if someone wants something they start to contemplate the ways in which it can go wrong or be taken away from them. But all that anyone can do is do as much research as possible on their chosen method. So many have succeeded with ctb after all. I envy them a lot.

 

[Cathy Ames]

I have extensive history of getting caught up on things that only had a small chance of happening and treating them as something that is very probable if not definite, and making really dumb radical decisions because of that.

First of all, I'd like for you to please remove the very judgemental word "irrational" in reference to yourself. You're being unkind to yourself to say that. What's going on is exactly what you described here. Your internal, decision-making self is not good at taking probability into account. Period. That's it. This is actually the completely normal way for a person to be. You are normal.

More later if I have time, but I really want for you to give yourself a break. You treat other people way better than you treat yourself.

[[ ]] <--Offering a hug. If you would like one.

 

[leeloosnow]

catastrophizing is something i'm pretty familiar with doing myself. i've been in various other support groups for years, and lately i've decided to apply some of those tools to my ctb plans. the idea behind this is to objectively view my options and pick the most comfortable path forward. here's my ctb-friendly edited versions.

Spoiler: ctb-cost-benefit-analysis

https://anopic.us/D1ELye3g1MQvV6SchXImxkOTvxwzfEPbwC2oAR5a.jpg

(st/lt=short term/long term)

Spoiler: ctb-plan-worksheet

https://anopic.us/K5QfwDofVQ3qdrLIu8o8ZTwQvaV8BvtKkGt3tXhF.jpg

using these over time seems to help me be more content, less scattered and anxious, and hopefully get better results.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Thank you so much for your replies, everyone. I really appreciate that you took the time.
@leeloosnow you are a rockstar! I will absolutely try to use the tools you provided.

 

[Maudlin]

Hey, everyone!
There is something that has really been driving me up the wall. I am an anxious person and I have a hard time drawing the line between rational and irrational fears. I have extensive history of getting caught up on things that only had a small chance of happening and treating them as something that is very probable if not definite, and making really dumb radical decisions because of that. I wish it made me a more careful person, but in reality it mostly makes me go crazy with anxiety until I snap and do stuff of "quitting my job because I am going to be fired anyway" variety just to relieve the tension. Me being self-aware about this isn't super helpful, because in the moment I can't draw the line between the reasonable precaution and anxious bullshit.
And currently I am absolutely caught up on fears about methods. I have fears of getting tardive dyskinesia that leaves me permanently disabled from one meto, fears of being permanently disabled by SN, fears of being permanently disabled by full suspension hanging. And all of this combined still doesn't make me not want to CTB. Instead it is slowly pushing me towards thinking of more gruesome methods that can potentially cause harm to others and towards using them sooner because my brain is driving me up the wall. I recognize that this is not good, but I don't know how to help myself.
I thought that there might be people on this forum that might have an idea of how to distinguish between rational and irrational fear specifically when it comes to methods. I tend to ask for an outside perspective, sometimes from multiple people, when I'm stuck in this mindset, but with CTB methods I know that pretty much everywhere people will just try to scare me further even if it is irrational, without realizing that it is not going to make me less suicidal because mentally I'm well beyond the point of being scared out of CTB. Any advice? I know it sounds like a very vague question, but I don't know how to formulate it better. I am shit at making scary decisions, that's the problem.
Thanks for reading.

Evidence.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ has so many thousands of citations and examples that you could spend a lifetime reading about death, if such were your bent of nature. They are quite accurate.

It's a few of the ones they have about health that you may find incorrect.

Personally, I find that interesting.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

Evidence.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/ has so many thousands of citations and examples that you could spend a lifetime reading about death, if such were your bent of nature. They are quite accurate.

Thank you so much. This is a good source of data!

 

[Maudlin]

Thank you so much. This is a good source of data!

No problem. I hope it relieves your anxiety, somewhat.

 

[makethepainstop]

Hey, everyone!
There is something that has really been driving me up the wall. I am an anxious person and I have a hard time drawing the line between rational and irrational fears. I have extensive history of getting caught up on things that only had a small chance of happening and treating them as something that is very probable if not definite, and making really dumb radical decisions because of that. I wish it made me a more careful person, but in reality it mostly makes me go crazy with anxiety until I snap and do stuff of "quitting my job because I am going to be fired anyway" variety just to relieve the tension. Me being self-aware about this isn't super helpful, because in the moment I can't draw the line between the reasonable precaution and anxious bullshit.
And currently I am absolutely caught up on fears about methods. I have fears of getting tardive dyskinesia that leaves me permanently disabled from one meto, fears of being permanently disabled by SN, fears of being permanently disabled by full suspension hanging. And all of this combined still doesn't make me not want to CTB. Instead it is slowly pushing me towards thinking of more gruesome methods that can potentially cause harm to others and towards using them sooner because my brain is driving me up the wall. I recognize that this is not good, but I don't know how to help myself.
I thought that there might be people on this forum that might have an idea of how to distinguish between rational and irrational fear specifically when it comes to methods. I tend to ask for an outside perspective, sometimes from multiple people, when I'm stuck in this mindset, but with CTB methods I know that pretty much everywhere people will just try to scare me further even if it is irrational, without realizing that it is not going to make me less suicidal because mentally I'm well beyond the point of being scared out of CTB. Any advice? I know it sounds like a very vague question, but I don't know how to formulate it better. I am shit at making scary decisions, that's the problem.
Thanks for reading.

A rational fear is canoeing in a river and seeing gators. An irrational fear is living in a penthouse on the 50th floor and being scared a gator will climb up the side of the building, come through your bathroom window and eat you while your in your tub bathing! One is logical fear one is an illogical fear. Do your research, gather all data......much love.

 

[GrumpyFrog]

A rational fear is canoeing in a river and seeing gators. An irrational fear is living in a penthouse on the 50th floor and being scared a gator will climb up the side of the building, come through your bathroom window and eat you while your in your tub bathing! One is logical fear one is an illogical fear. Do your research, gather all data......much love.

That is a great analogy, I love it!
Oh boy, I've got a lot of work to do on this one, and my brain is fried. Thank god for this site.
Thank you for your response.

 

[Sad_Sack]

And currently I am absolutely caught up on fears about methods. I have fears of getting tardive dyskinesia that leaves me permanently disabled from one meto, fears of being permanently disabled by SN, fears of being permanently disabled by full suspension hanging.

Nothing irrational about your concerns. Suicide is really sketchy stuff. So many things can go wrong and leave you even worse off. On top of it all is SI which only adds more layers to the stress and fear. I've never been suicidal for such a long stretch as I am in now. Its been 5 straight years and it's a nightmare. All of the fears around ending it piled in top of everything that's causing me to want to end it. I'm sure it's the same for you and everyone else here and it is horrible. I'm sorry you have to deal with all of this. Best wishes.

 

[theboy]

Irrational fears are no real danger or threat to the person.

Rational fears do