Discussion How cruel can pro-lifers get?

[TAW122]

This is the kind of stuff that really, really makes my blood boil. For fuck's sake, that person (cancer survivor) has suffered immensely for many years and continues to suffer, yet there are people who want to prevent her from exiting peacefully?! How disgusting and selfish, especially making her live for others so they don't have to be sad about her passing. She is likely going to pass away soon with her condition and things aren't likely going to get better (even if it did, the cancer gets worse later in her life). Just reading some of the comments infuriate me significantly. This is someone who is likely going to die a very painful death and suffer until her end, yet people are talking about putting her on suicide watch, violating her dignity, and make her suffer more. Fucking monsters those people are!

All I know is that if I were her, any niceties towards pro-lifers or those that keep me suffering for their own gain will be long gone and I would do everything I can to make all responsible parties' lives as miserable as possible, especially if they are going to force me to live in agony until I die. Basically, if I ever find myself in a situation where I don't even have the ability to ctb (physically speaking) such as terminal illnesses, paralysis, chronic illnesses resulting in severe physical disabilities, then I would want to be euthanized. However, if medical and healthcare professionals would not honor that but instead decide to keep me alive as well as "friends" (I mean pro-lifers and fake people who pretend to be my friends) and family, then I won't show any mercy and will raise hell until I'm no longer alive. I just don't see any incentive to be civil or play nice in such a situation when, no matter what, one won't get what one wants (euthanasia and right to die peacefully and with minimal pain).

This post is more of a semi-discussion, but also contains a bit of ranting too. If you have share the same sentiments, that's great, but if you have different opinions, please discuss and elaborate on why you would disagree with me.

 

[Paulsmith]

So pro lifers can get very cruel.

 

[Armadillo]

"Help her see the benefits of her disease, how it has served her, taught her through the years, helped her see life differently."

Hell yeah! Now CANCER can be something positive too according to pro-lifers!
'Cause it makes you see life differently, y'know?
This woman battled with it for 17 years but no, she can't say that she's tired of fighting, 'cause I enjoy being alive and I'm too fucking dumb to understand the pain other people may have to bear against theyr will.
Those people are fucked in the head, and unfortunately we can't still cure human stupidity.

Best wishes for this poor young woman, I hope she'll be able to find peace and relief from the pain whether alive or dead.

"I would do everything I can to make all responsible parties' lives as miserable as possible, especially if they are going to force me to live in agony until I die. "

Me too, at least I would still have a goal in life if there was no way I could CTB to end it. A very noble goal I'd dare to say.

Just came to mind the lyrics of a song I listened to yesterday:

"I looked my family in the eye and told them "Leave me to die, or I'll make you sorry you didn't" "

 

[NoOneKnows]

yep. AS these cruel "humans" have no mercy or humanity within, I have no mercy for them and really wishing them what they preach ! My bio family is the same unfortunatelly.
This reminded me one female psychiatrist, a real b**atch, who dedicated her whole life to basically keep people in the most miserable conditions alive saying BS like : ""Kübler-Ross encouraged the hospice care movement, believing that euthanasia prevents people from completing their 'unfinished business' ." - Only to be dying slow death in wheel chair after strokes and paralysis, praying she could determine her own time of death. So basically her lifetime work was proven it belongs in the garbage. I was really content it turned out like that, she could test the fruits of her work on her own skin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Kübler-Ross

 

[hunter_lewis]

yep. AS these cruel "humans" have no mercy or humanity within, I have no mercy for them and really wishing them what they preach ! My bio family is the same unfortunatelly.
This reminded me one female psychiatrist, a real b**atch, who dedicated her whole life to basically keep people in the most miserable conditions alive saying BS like : ""Kübler-Ross encouraged the hospice care movement, believing that euthanasia prevents people from completing their 'unfinished business' ." - Only to be dying slow death in wheel chair after strokes and paralysis, praying she could determine her own time of death. So basically her lifetime work was proven it belongs in the garbage. I was really content it turned out like that, she could test the fruits of her work on her own skin.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elisabeth_Kübler-Ross

I actually have read some of her work, it is not half bad.
But your post did make me smile a little bit. It is so hypocritical of Kübler Ross-first off not believing that suicide is acceptable because of NDEs and saying 'there are always lessons that can be learned in life', but then when she gets a stroke she takes all of her words back. And after her stroke she found hereself yearning for death because her condition was so terrible and then she saw suicide as a legitimate option. What a terrible society we live in. Only when she had pain and disability herself, did she see death as being an escape. that's what people need to understand-that suicide IS a solution in some cases!

 

[LiveSlowDieFast]

From the comments:

"Help her see the benefits of her disease, how it has served her, taught her through the years, helped her see life differently."

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

 

[Mljonzy]

I hate people that try to stop suicide more than anything. If someone is hanging they should be left untouched but most people would stop it knowing that the risk of brain damage it is disgusting.

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

lol @ The Red Roof Inn having a suicide suite. Falling for a story from the Onion was a pretty sure sign she was going to post some stupid bullshit.

And what is it with people calling those going through a hard time "beautiful" and such? Is it because she is likely frail, or has hair falling out? It always feels so patronizing and overcompensating. It's like, that poor woman is likely tough as nails and does not deserve such a cruel fate, but come on now. I want to say someone like Oprah or Ellen started dreaming that shit up.

Pro-lifers are as dumb and naive as it gets.

 

[NumbItAll]

From the comments:

"Help her see the benefits of her disease, how it has served her, taught her through the years, helped her see life differently."

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST

What the fuck is wrong with these people?

lol and just before that:

For whatever reason she is battling with this disease it is her greatest teacher. I can understand the pain that comes with illness but she has also beat it off for this long for a reason.

completely delusional. there is nothing noble about pointless suffering.

 

[Empty Smile]

Pro-lifers want you to live so they can feel like they did a good deed.

Government wants you to live so they can continue collecting tax money from you.

Doctors and drug companies want you to live so they can continue milking money from you.

Seems like a no win situation for us.

 

[Misanthrope]

I generally find the pro-life arguments on this site are reduced down to an easily attackable caricature. Which is understandable I guess, as their ideology is directly in opposition of our own, and groupthink likes to reinforce its own ideology. I also see the term applied to friends and family who are simply reacting as people do, who have invested emotion in a loved one and don't want to lose them. Generally the mentally healthy have a tendency towards optimism, meaning when they see your pain they view it as fixable or assume quality of life can still be found despite difficulties, even if it means a long road. Sure it is selfish on some level, but what isn't? We are also emotional creatures after all, prone to attachments.

The waters get further muddied when you throw in the sometimes irrationality of mental health issues. It is a natural instinct to want to preserve life, it is also a default societal stance deeply programmed into us and also enshrined in law and consequence for failing to do so.

Maybe the definition of pro-life is loosened round here. I have always viewed it as a more legislative thing, where policies are lobbied for as a means to deny the right to die or abort in all circumstances, regardless of consequences. Basically blanket absolutism.

I don't really see much in that linked thread to be enraged about it is a pretty tame thread in contrast to many. There is also so little to go on. No intentional malice or cruelty that I can see either. Just well-intentioned people talking.

She is likely going to pass away soon with her condition and things aren't likely going to get better (even if it did, the cancer gets worse later in her life).

This is merely speculation, you have no idea what her prognosis even is, it is not mentioned. You are just assuming a future that may or may not happen and applying a negative outcome based on very little. Much like pro-lifers assume a positive outcome will occur for those they save.

What stands out to me in the thread is that the friend with cancer drew attention to their desire to die. To me, that just reveals an ambivalence. Because if you are rationally suicidal, on some fundamental level you know drawing attention to yourself will provoke an intervention, which would be counterproductive to your intended goal.

Later in the thread, it seems the suicidal individual is grateful for the friend being there for them. But again can't really know the context or tone in the way it was said.

This though is pretty distasteful, but that is my own value judgement.

"Help her see the benefits of her disease, how it has served her, taught her through the years, helped her see life differently."

But saying that, there are a lot of philosophies and faiths that attempt to apply meaning to suffering. View it as a teacher or education for the soul. It is just a different thought stream, this person ascribes to. So their attempt at solutions is coloured by it. Some even use that mentality as a coping strategy to deal with their own pain or chronic conditions.

Absolutist ideology generally fails to accept the variability of the human condition.

Well, those are my thoughts to add to the discussion.

 

[MAIO]

"Help her see the benefits of her disease, how it has served her, taught her through the years, helped her see life differently."

Hell yeah! Now CANCER can be something positive too according to pro-lifers!
'Cause it makes you see life differently, y'know?
This woman battled with it for 17 years but no, she can't say that she's tired of fighting, 'cause I enjoy being alive and I'm too fucking dumb to understand the pain other people may have to bear against theyr will.
Those people are fucked in the head, and unfortunately we can't still cure human stupidity.

Best wishes for this poor young woman, I hope she'll be able to find peace and relief from the pain whether alive or dead.

"I would do everything I can to make all responsible parties' lives as miserable as possible, especially if they are going to force me to live in agony until I die. "

Me too, at least I would still have a goal in life if there was no way I could CTB to end it. A very noble goal I'd dare to say.

Just came to mind the lyrics of a song I listened to yesterday:

"I looked my family in the eye and told them "Leave me to die, or I'll make you sorry you didn't" "

This is the kind of stuff that really, really makes my blood boil. For fuck's sake, that person (cancer survivor) has suffered immensely for many years and continues to suffer, yet there are people who want to prevent her from exiting peacefully?! How disgusting and selfish, especially making her live for others so they don't have to be sad about her passing. She is likely going to pass away soon with her condition and things aren't likely going to get better (even if it did, the cancer gets worse later in her life). Just reading some of the comments infuriate me significantly. This is someone who is likely going to die a very painful death and suffer until her end, yet people are talking about putting her on suicide watch, violating her dignity, and make her suffer more. Fucking monsters those people are!

All I know is that if I were her, any niceties towards pro-lifers or those that keep me suffering for their own gain will be long gone and I would do everything I can to make all responsible parties' lives as miserable as possible, especially if they are going to force me to live in agony until I die. Basically, if I ever find myself in a situation where I don't even have the ability to ctb (physically speaking) such as terminal illnesses, paralysis, chronic illnesses resulting in severe physical disabilities, then I would want to be euthanized. However, if medical and healthcare professionals would not honor that but instead decide to keep me alive as well as "friends" (I mean pro-lifers and fake people who pretend to be my friends) and family, then I won't show any mercy and will raise hell until I'm no longer alive. I just don't see any incentive to be civil or play nice in such a situation when, no matter what, one won't get what one wants (euthanasia and right to die peacefully and with minimal pain).

This post is more of a semi-discussion, but also contains a bit of ranting too. If you have share the same sentiments, that's great, but if you have different opinions, please discuss and elaborate on why you would disagree with me.

A lot of people actual quote "they imagine Sisyphus happy" the guy who was damned to push a rock up a hill for all of eternity, to justify their pro life choice. Now I want you to keep in mind what they are saying. You should actually be greatful for being sentenced to eternal torture becuase it gave you a purpose. This actually proved something I thought I would never see; Apparently people would be In happy In heaven knowing their loved one is being tourtured forever becuase from their point of view it gives them a purpose, they are unhappy being tortured because of their attitude. These people are beyond delusion and the problem is rather than leaving it up to the individual to decide it's always their standards they want to enforce on others. Ie I get to decide you need to lose two arms before suicide is acceptable, you don't get to decide!!

 

[MAIO]

I generally find the pro-life arguments on this site are reduced down to an easily attackable caricature. Which is understandable I guess, as their ideology is directly in opposition of our own, and groupthink likes to reinforce its own ideology. I also see the term applied to friends and family who are simply reacting as people do, who have invested emotion in a loved one and don't want to lose them. Generally the mentally healthy have a tendency towards optimism, meaning when they see your pain they view it as fixable or assume quality of life can still be found despite difficulties, even if it means a long road. Sure it is selfish on some level, but what isn't? We are also emotional creatures after all, prone to attachments.

The waters get further muddied when you throw in the sometimes irrationality of mental health issues. It is a natural instinct to want to preserve life, it is also a default societal stance deeply programmed into us and also enshrined in law and consequence for failing to do so.

Maybe the definition of pro-life is loosened round here. I have always viewed it as a more legislative thing, where policies are lobbied for as a means to deny the right to die or abort in all circumstances, regardless of consequences. Basically blanket absolutism.

I don't really see much in that linked thread to be enraged about it is a pretty tame thread in contrast to many. There is also so little to go on. No intentional malice or cruelty that I can see either. Just well-intentioned people talking.



This is merely speculation, you have no idea what her prognosis even is, it is not mentioned. You are just assuming a future that may or may not happen and applying a negative outcome based on very little. Much like pro-lifers assume a positive outcome will occur for those they save.

What stands out to me in the thread is that the friend with cancer drew attention to their desire to die. To me, that just reveals an ambivalence. Because if you are rationally suicidal, on some fundamental level you know drawing attention to yourself will provoke an intervention, which would be counterproductive to your intended goal.

Later in the thread, it seems the suicidal individual is grateful for the friend being there for them. But again can't really know the context or tone in the way it was said.

This though is pretty distasteful, but that is my own value judgement.



But saying that, there are a lot of philosophies and faiths that attempt to apply meaning to suffering. View it as a teacher or education for the soul. It is just a different thought stream, this person ascribes to. So their attempt at solutions is coloured by it. Some even use that mentality as a coping strategy to deal with their own pain or chronic conditions.

Absolutist ideology generally fails to accept the variability of the human condition.

Well, those are my thoughts to add to the discussion.

List a good pro life argument. If pro life left it up to the individual I would have no issue with that. The issue is they want to enforce their individual standards for when life is worth it onto other usually without even ever going through what that person is going through. Explain why pro life does not have to meet any burden of prove to enforce their standards onto others? How is that not pro suffering?

 

[Misanthrope]

I can't list a good pro life argument. Good itself is subjective. I can though list a thought provoking one if you are interested? It will have to wait till I am not so tired. These though are not my own views, just the ones I find most challenging to my own personal stance.

 

[Arak]

@NoOneKnows ,

My blood pressure went up a bit when I read that and recaledl how a former doctor of mine made an error by not timely referring a woman who was suffering from cancer and then just phoning with her hospice care to hear how she is doing.

Words like selfishness, insanity and power come to mind.

 

[MAIO]

I can't list a good pro life argument. Good itself is subjective. I can though list a thought provoking one if you are interested? It will have to wait till I am not so tired. These though are not my own views, just the ones I find most challenging to my own personal stance.

Go ahead I will do my best to refute it.

 

[TAW122]

@Paulsmith Yes, they can and this is just one example of such. There are many more, sometimes not even heard of, but happens behind closed doors.

@Armadillo Yes, I would agree with you that if there is no out, then one might as well raise hell to make the people around them miserable, especially the pro-lifers who keep spewing pro-life, anti-suicide rhetoric. If they are arrogant enough to want someone suffering greatly to stay, then they must pay a big price. Because fuck them for having their cake and eating it too.

@NoOneKnows ugh, she is responsible for the a significant amount of the accepting pain and suffering bullshit mentality. Also, some pro-lifers latch onto her teachings and models that it's disgusting. 5 stages of grief, no thanks I'd rather just experience some grief and exit this world. Fuck going through the shitty process only to suffer even more.

@hunter_lewis Yeah, it's funny how pro-lifers can't practice what they preach. Some even go as far as to deny, blame, deflect, and get really angry when they get exposed.

@LiveSlowDieFast They are so fucked in their heads that they won't even admit it and will just lash out, drown out whoever goes against their "perfect" view.

@Mljonzy Yeah, it's pretty fucked up that people know the damage and risks of saving someone from a failed attempt yet they still have their "pro-life" attitude and approach to others. Disgusting vermin the lot of them.

@Angst Filled Fuck Up Yes, pro-lifers are so dumb that they can't really use much logic, if any. Even the more logical ones try to justify and deconstruct pro-suffering and how life is good. Absolutely fucking horrendous. I suppose there is no way one can reason with people who aren't even open to reasoning.

@NumbItAll Exactly, I don't find anything good about suffering, especially pointless suffering just for the sake of it.

@Empty Smile Pretty much hits the nail on the spot. As long as someone is alive, society can milk and benefit for their own gains, not so much the person/individual. Ironically enough, people who are homeless well society doesn't give a shit if they die due to starvation, elements, or what not. It's all just as long as they don't suicide, it doesn't matter how bad their circumstances are. Furthermore, people even judge and shit on homeless or destitute people, yet are against them taking their own life. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

@Misanthrope Very interesting thoughts and yes, while I can't really know her situation, I did speculate that things (generally) don't get better most of the cases. I also see where you are coming from though.

@MAIO I'd hate to be Sisyphus though. It sucks to have an endless grind for eternity. I'd rather kms than to roll a boulder up a hill only to do it all over again, for no real purpose. Also, yes, if only pro-lifers respected the choices of the pro-choice people, we wouldn't have these issues to begin with. Sadly, the vast majority of the world doesn't think like us nor want to accept us, yet they don't allow us to ctb peacefully. As a result, we have to resort to ugly methods that either leave others hurt or involve others, which sucks. These people are simply beyond logical reasoning and comprehension, and the ones that do have logical reasoning, well they're plagued by confirmation bias, survivorship bias, and what not.

@Arak Yes, those 3 words perfectly describe the pro-life people.

 

[bigj75]

Throughout history we've seen how cruel pro-lifeRS are. Keeping the ill and mentally insane alive against Their own will no matter the pain they suffer.

 

[Help_Me]

Tell me, guys... how many of them [pro-lifers] ever got a chance to feel the real pain we feel ? I just don't get it : are they really stupid enough to dissuade others blindly ? Don't they have some kind of ... exceptions. Probably that poor soul, who suffers from cancer since 9 y.o. would make them change their mind at least a little bit. I just don't get their "logic"

 

[TAW122]

@bigj75 Yeah it seems like they have some sick fantasy of life is great and anyone who doesn't believe or share the same value is mentally ill and unable to make sound decisions (which makes zero sense whatsoever).

@Help_Me I don't understand either. I don't think most of them experienced what it is truly like to suffer so they either assume it won't happen to them or that it isn't really bad. And yes, I believe they are stupid enough to blindly dissuade other people and try to impose their will on them because they believe their belief is right.

 

[Help_Me]

@thrw_a_way1221221 then they are one of the most dangerous group of people on Earth. Those, who don't bother themselves thinking and not using their brain. We don't have solutions to cure terminal painful diseases like cancer, but we've got a bunch of f*cktards ready to call the police when somebody slowly dies in pain.

 

[worldexploder]

Pro-lifers are evil in my eyes. Who gives anyone a fucking right to control others. A victim that comes to mind is Chantal Sébire. Someone with brain tumors so bad her eyes were starting to pop out of her skull. She fought for the right to die but the French courts rejected her request. She took her own life soon after.

ANOTHER VICTIM OF PRO-LIFE TYRANNY

 

[throwaway_2620]

Another couple of victims who were cruelly intercepted by pro lifers:

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/26/mums...rved-of-oxygen-after-suicide-attempt-7028654/

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1989-05-29/lifestyle/8905300207_1_dax-cowart-burned-skin-matter

 

[NoOneKnows]

Another couple of victims who were cruelly intercepted by pro lifers:

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/26/mums...rved-of-oxygen-after-suicide-attempt-7028654/

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1989-05-29/lifestyle/8905300207_1_dax-cowart-burned-skin-matter

these parents should be the first to start campaign against this torture to keep people in such conditions...i just feel like some doctors like for the sake of medical experimenting and perhaps further their career with new developments,to try stuff on these people like on a experimenta rats. I noticed medical practitioners, can lose their humanity if they are too suck into it /unfortunatelly once someone is on top seems to be untouchable

 

[bigj75]

Pro-lifers are evil in my eyes. Who gives anyone a fucking right to control others. A victim that comes to mind is Chantal Sébire. Someone with brain tumors so bad her eyes were starting to pop out of her skull. She fought for the right to die but the French courts rejected her request. She took her own life soon after.

ANOTHER VICTIM OF PRO-LIFE TYRANNY

Anything to make money off of people no matter who suffers. It's fucked up.

 

[NumbItAll]

Another couple of victims who were cruelly intercepted by pro lifers:

https://metro.co.uk/2017/10/26/mums...rved-of-oxygen-after-suicide-attempt-7028654/

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1989-05-29/lifestyle/8905300207_1_dax-cowart-burned-skin-matter

Over the last eight months he has learned how to move his hands from an armrest to his lap, and to blink once for 'no' and twice for 'yes'.

When Helen asks her son if he still wants to die, he blinks twice.

no different from torture

 

[MsM3talGamer]

Doctors make me sick. I heard of a 90-year-old woman having all her ribs broken to get her heart started again. Why can't these fuckers just accept that everyone will die one day? We all have the right to a peaceful passing without meddling dipshit doctors trying to get us back.

 

[MsM3talGamer]

This is the kind of stuff that really, really makes my blood boil. For fuck's sake, that person (cancer survivor) has suffered immensely for many years and continues to suffer, yet there are people who want to prevent her from exiting peacefully?! How disgusting and selfish, especially making her live for others so they don't have to be sad about her passing. She is likely going to pass away soon with her condition and things aren't likely going to get better (even if it did, the cancer gets worse later in her life). Just reading some of the comments infuriate me significantly. This is someone who is likely going to die a very painful death and suffer until her end, yet people are talking about putting her on suicide watch, violating her dignity, and make her suffer more. Fucking monsters those people are!

All I know is that if I were her, any niceties towards pro-lifers or those that keep me suffering for their own gain will be long gone and I would do everything I can to make all responsible parties' lives as miserable as possible, especially if they are going to force me to live in agony until I die. Basically, if I ever find myself in a situation where I don't even have the ability to ctb (physically speaking) such as terminal illnesses, paralysis, chronic illnesses resulting in severe physical disabilities, then I would want to be euthanized. However, if medical and healthcare professionals would not honor that but instead decide to keep me alive as well as "friends" (I mean pro-lifers and fake people who pretend to be my friends) and family, then I won't show any mercy and will raise hell until I'm no longer alive. I just don't see any incentive to be civil or play nice in such a situation when, no matter what, one won't get what one wants (euthanasia and right to die peacefully and with minimal pain).

This post is more of a semi-discussion, but also contains a bit of ranting too. If you have share the same sentiments, that's great, but if you have different opinions, please discuss and elaborate on why you would disagree with me.

Those pro-lifer fuck nuggets need to be strung up. As a cancer-sufferer myself this made my blood boil. What vile and condescending people.

 

[Arak]

Mostly off topic, I dread what surviving an N attempt could be like.We don´t want that.