Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,113
With high per-capita rates, suicide is considered a serious issue in Japan and has been the subject of government action in recent years. Yet historically, Japanese culture has been described as tolerant of suicide.

Japanese battleship Yamato running trials off Bungo Strait 20 October 1941

A brief history
Formal seppuku suicides in feudal Japan were considered an honourable response if a samurai was defeated in battle, traditionally entailing slashing one's stomach with a sword. This gives rise to the modern term for honour suicides, hara-kiri; translating as 'belly-cutting'. During the later WWII years, not only were kamikaze suicides expected of pilots, but the largest battleship of all time, Japan's Yamato (pictured), was itself sent on a one-way mission to its watery demise.

In 2007, politician Toshikatsu Matsuoka (pictured) took his own life while under investigation for a financial scandal. In response to his suicide, a former Tokyo governor paid respects to him as a "true samurai".

Japans agricultural minister toshikatsu matsuoka speaks at a lower house committee meeting on

In recent years, however, the Japanese media has portrayed internet-based group suicide activity as thoughtless and impulsive. Yet academic research by Ozawa de-Silva has sympathised with these suicides as "characterized by severe existential suffering, a loss of the "worth of living" (ikigai) ... and a profound loneliness and lack of connection with others".

Shame and honour in culture
A major component of Japan's suicide tolerance is the concept of having polarities of shame and honour baked into the societal worldview. This creates a cohesive social order by threatening failure or nonconformity with ostracisation and a loss of one's pride. Chinese culture accepts a similar concept of shame, traceable to original teachings of Confucius.

Such cultures could be accused of using fear to control people, demanding strict conformity to social etiquette at the expense of individual autonomy. Of course, other societies which promote individual self-interest at the expense of the wider society will have their own problems.

A global phenomenon?
Many family cultures demand high levels of academic success, while wider society generally places some expectations in terms of career, family and social life. Yet some failure is inevitable, and it seems that most people don't want to hear about it since positive-biased perspectives are more valued than stark reality.

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This topic was inspired by a discussion I was reading on another forum. In short, an Australian man in his mid-30s moved to Vietnam. He reported seeking a higher quality of life or, from a more cynical perspective, an easy boost in his relative wealth and social status. A native of Asia replied that the locals often refer to such men as the "loser back home". Harsh, but there's truth to it.

As someone who has been materially unsuccessful despite every effort, it struck me that there is no way humanly possible to escape the 'loser' label. And of course, no one cares to point fingers at the childhood abusers who leave some of us with critically damaged nervous systems that make proper functioning physically impossible. At best one could try and de-program the mental conditioning of failure-shaming via self-help mojo, spending one's life constantly ignoring all of its daily manifestations.

Yet the concept of hara-kiri is starting to strongly resonate with me. To formally accept defeat in the capitalist battle and make a firm decision to leave with some pride intact. To make one's final act that of a samurai; to surrender one's life with honour rather than age in shame.
 
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Valky

Valky

Petulant Child
Apr 4, 2023
1,322
As someone who has also found interest in this topic once I learned about it on here you should also do your research on Seppuku and learn the difference between that and Hara-kiri.
While Hara-kiri is about the disembowlment in general, Seppuku is about the whole ritualistic process, which would also often include decapitation at the end, as a sign of mercy.

Therefore, Hara-kiri was also often seen as a punishment for those that were too heinous to be deserving of Seppuku.

Which is exactly why Seppuku was usually reserved to Samurai (found in their code of honor).

Fact is, that even tho Seppuku was also used later on, it is very intertwined with the Japanese culture, especially Samurais (obviously) but also for warrior after WWII.
It's not something that should be taken lightly and misused in the sense that I personally don't believe that we are in any way entitled to such a sacred ritual.
 
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Das Nichts

Das Nichts

Dead Man Walking
Apr 8, 2023
521
While I respect the people who a willing forcing a knife into their stomach - or the Kaishakunin - who a trying to
fullfill this ritual, I gotta ask myself - what for - and for whom ?
 
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noname223

Archangel
Aug 18, 2020
5,345
With high per-capita rates, suicide is considered a serious issue in Japan and has been the subject of government action in recent years. Yet historically, Japanese culture has been described as tolerant of suicide.


A brief history
Formal seppuku suicides in feudal Japan were considered an honourable response if a samurai was defeated in battle, traditionally entailing slashing one's stomach with a sword. This gives rise to the modern term for honour suicides, hara-kiri; translating as 'belly-cutting'. During the later WWII years, not only were kamikaze suicides expected of pilots, but the largest battleship of all time, Japan's Yamato (pictured), was itself sent on a one-way mission to its watery demise.

In 2007, politician Toshikatsu Matsuoka (pictured) took his own life while under investigation for a financial scandal. In response to his suicide, a former Tokyo governor paid respects to him as a "true samurai".


In recent years, however, the Japanese media has portrayed internet-based group suicide activity as thoughtless and impulsive. Yet academic research by Ozawa de-Silva has sympathised with these suicides as "characterized by severe existential suffering, a loss of the "worth of living" (ikigai) ... and a profound loneliness and lack of connection with others".

Shame and honour in culture
A major component of Japan's suicide tolerance is the concept of having polarities of shame and honour baked into the societal worldview. This creates a cohesive social order by threatening failure or nonconformity with ostracisation and a loss of one's pride. Chinese culture accepts a similar concept of shame, traceable to original teachings of Confucius.

Such cultures could be accused of using fear to control people, demanding strict conformity to social etiquette at the expense of individual autonomy. Of course, other societies which promote individual self-interest at the expense of the wider society will have their own problems.

A global phenomenon?
Many family cultures demand high levels of academic success, while wider society generally places some expectations in terms of career, family and social life. Yet some failure is inevitable, and it seems that most people don't want to hear about it since positive-biased perspectives are more valued than stark reality.


This topic was inspired by a discussion I was reading on another forum. In short, an Australian man in his mid-30s moved to Vietnam. He reported seeking a higher quality of life or, from a more cynical perspective, an easy boost in his relative wealth and social status. A native of Asia replied that the locals often refer to such men as the "loser back home". Harsh, but there's truth to it.

As someone who has been materially unsuccessful despite every effort, it struck me that there is no way humanly possible to escape the 'loser' label. And of course, no one cares to point fingers at the childhood abusers who leave some of us with critically damaged nervous systems that make proper functioning physically impossible. At best one could try and de-program the mental conditioning of failure-shaming via self-help mojo, spending one's life constantly ignoring all of its daily manifestations.

Yet the concept of hara-kiri is starting to strongly resonate with me. To formally accept defeat in the capitalist battle and make a firm decision to leave with some pride intact. To make one's final act that of a samurai; to surrender one's life with honour rather than age in shame.
I found this thread very interesting and insightful. As a teenager I had a love for Japan. I adapted their stance on honor and suicide in some ways. Though personally as I described it in an old thread I consider honor as an overrated concept similar to patriotism now. Sacificing your own life for a higher good seems to be suspicious for me because this can lead to exploitation. As one can see with these suicide bombers in WWII. The comparison with patriotism is not perfect though.

The obssessive thinking about honor made me feel extremely horrible about my own mental health condition after my first breakdown. The emphasis on honor leads to stigmatization at least in Japan. And letting the notion of honor go helped me to decrease my self-loathing because of my mental illness. It was easier for me to accept it as a part of me afterwards.

But this is only my personal relationship with it. And how it impacted me.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
4,113
It's not something that should be taken lightly and misused in the sense that I personally don't believe that we are in any way entitled to such a sacred ritual.
Of course, we are not talking about cultural appropriation. There is no need to emulate any feudal ritual or copy any particular suicide method.

Simply, the contribution made by these cultures is the notion of suicide can be an act of honour in the face of defeat. In the case of Toshikatsu Matsuoka's 2007 death, he hanged himself. I appreciate that there were people who respected his decision to surrender his life with a final act of dignity.

Western culture has no answer to this situation. Suicide is either tabooed, dismissed as an act of mentally-ill lunacy or treated as a coward's way out, yet being unsuccessful in worldly life is also viewed with disdain. Shamed if you do, shamed if you don't. So, unless we live in a unicorn world where 100% of people are able to thrive in some form, what options with any dignity are left for those who fall down?

Sacificing your own life for a higher good seems to be suspicious for me because this can lead to exploitation. As one can see with these suicide bombers in WWII.
The culture had a huge impact on my youth, too. From Sonic the Hedgehog to the Honda NSX. The world has benefitted tremendously from a people who are unique, determined and engaged in contemporary industrial civilisation. This is why their views on this topic, which differ from the global monoculture, are important to pay attention to. As with Ancient Rome, we see that there really are other interpretations of rational suicide than the Western taboo approach.

In the case of kamikaze, there's a very fine line between demanding suicide versus murder. There is also an element of psychological conditioning and manipulation to pressure the individual to sacrifice their life for society. As a political tool, it represents one possible approach to balancing the benefits of a cohesive society versus individual freedom. But as debatable as this may be, the tolerance for suicide at least makes for a complete picture.
 
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CTB Dream

CTB Dream

Injury damage disabl hard talk no argu make fun et
Sep 17, 2022
2,613
Know japn anime etc amaze have ctb view diff, also many topic can see exmpl anti natal etc, but need sepert true ctb undrstd sepert nonsns cntry honr etc same @noname223 say ,ctb prsn choos no honr no cntry nonsns, ctb mean no sffr know life awfl not mean cntry honr etc. Truth tell japn no lone cntry undrdtd ctb etc but species awfl try frc 1 way think.

also ctb need peace no sffria , yea this honr thing take imprt china also simil kanji, cncpt limit way view cuz kanji, this kanji also lang simil prison, can see how japn 2+ cnflct idea,

rly love japn intrst bfr wish no injury damage tell more
 
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Valky

Valky

Petulant Child
Apr 4, 2023
1,322
Western culture has no answer to this situation. Suicide is either tabooed, dismissed as an act of mentally-ill lunacy or treated as a coward's way out, yet being unsuccessful in worldly life is also viewed with disdain. Shamed if you do, shamed if you don't. So, unless we live in a unicorn world where 100% of people are able to thrive in some form, what options with any dignity are left for those who fall down?
There is no honor in living a miserable life and suffering. That is why.
 
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Minsu

Minsu

♀️🏳️‍🌈
Jan 17, 2023
545
Actually the same in South Korea. We have a very high rate of suicides, I don't know why though.
2 of my classmates from secondary school committed suicide as well
 
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