Method Goodbye - SN

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

I really hope that's true about the benzo's switching off the SI. I know I have to have everything organised in case they hit hard but also need to be calm so I don't let the tachy - I can't have proplanalol (don't know how to spell…) or the SI win. Timing this is properly is worrying me a fair bit - because I take benzo's every day, I think my timing & dosing is different to people who never take at all - I take 2 temazepam & half to 1 Valium most days or every second day - must be searching poorly because I can only see plans for people lucky enough to not need them IRL - I'm not an addict, just riddled with anxiety that is caused 1 by actual normal people GAD but 2 by disease & 3 by the meds for that disease & 4 the mild tachy caused by my adhd drugs. But it's mostly 2 & 3 - when anxiety is caused by disease & meds, you can't get rid of it with mindfulness & hypnotherapy etc - it's just stuck in you. I tried everything from CBT to CBD oil to acupuncture until my doc said I was just losing the battle & give up & take the bloody meds or else I'll never sleep or be able to leave the house. Accurate. If anyone has any advice on benzo dosing & timing for people who take every day - please pile on, here or privately. Between the ADHD, lack of privacy, limited to iPhone etc etc my research is painfully slow….
Plus, I acknowledge I am the lucky one when it comes to having access to benzos when others are struggling

Benzodiazepines are exceptional at reducing anxiety and leaving you in a peaceful state of mind, and when used correctly in a combo allow you to switch off the "SI" completely, in short indispensable.

 

[Cakeisalie]

I really hope that's true about the benzo's switching off the SI. I know I have to have everything organised in case they hit hard but also need to be calm so I don't let the tachy - I can't have proplanalol (don't know how to spell…) or the SI win. Timing this is properly is worrying me a fair bit - because I take benzo's every day, I think my timing & dosing is different to people who never take at all - I take 2 temazepam & half to 1 Valium most days or every second day - must be searching poorly because I can only see plans for people lucky enough to not need them IRL - I'm not an addict, just riddled with anxiety that is caused 1 by actual normal people GAD but 2 by disease & 3 by the meds for that disease & 4 the mild tachy caused by my adhd drugs. But it's mostly 2 & 3 - when anxiety is caused by disease & meds, you can't get rid of it with mindfulness & hypnotherapy etc - it's just stuck in you. I tried everything from CBT to CBD oil to acupuncture until my doc said I was just losing the battle & give up & take the bloody meds or else I'll never sleep or be able to leave the house. Accurate. If anyone has any advice on benzo dosing & timing for people who take every day - please pile on, here or privately. Between the ADHD, lack of privacy, limited to iPhone etc etc my research is painfully slow….
Plus, I acknowledge I am the lucky one when it comes to having access to benzos when others are struggling

I've also been using medication for adhd+benzos for many years, so your question is what would be the approximate dose in order to reduce or deactivate the SI and which benzo would be appropriate to use?

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

I've also been using medication for adhd+benzos for many years, so your question is what would be the approximate dose in order to reduce or deactivate the SI and which benzo would be appropriate to use?

Yep. Everything seems to say as little drugs as possible & to discontinue any non essential meds. But I don't know what'll happen if I stop any of my meds, even for a day or 2. I know I'm defs stopping my thyroid meds for a day or 2 - they cause tachy. And the same with the ADHD Dex - I know I can either ditch altogether or just take one a day - I've done it before, like when I had Covid antivirals etc. But I don't know whether to drop the temazepam or combine it with the Valium.
Right now I have enough Valium but if the date keeps moving, I might have to combine both anyway.
Plus I take 400mg quitapine.
Plus probs using prochlorezapine as AE but don't know dosing for that either.
And no beta blocker at all.
I guess with the Benzo's I wanna know if I can combine the temaze & Valium if I'm running low on Valium - even though I get it legit, there's still prescribing & dispensing limits.
Plus do I take more because I already take every day? And the timing? I've started thinking maybe I could take 2 whole temaze earlier in the process (not crushed) to get me relatively calm but not stoned or pass out. And then take crushed Valium later.
But how many? How often? And in what spacing to the SN? So I'm peaceful & overcome the SI & go unconscious quickly & don't feel pain.
But I think, after reading other people getting knocked out & sleeping & waking up without taking the SN, if I have to choose, I one hundred percent choose to be in pain, not peaceful, take longer to go unconscious.
The priority is to succeed at all costs. Success is it. I would like it to be peaceful but honestly, that's just an added bonus. I don't have the option to try, try, try again. I need this.
Any answers gratefully received. Thanks so much for your response & your time & sorry for the rambly way I write - I know it sucks, just don't seem to have the power to change it, or believe me, I would. Sorry again.

 

[divinemistress36]

So is it better to take the benzos before or after sn?

 

[Timothy7dff]

What's the best benzo to take in conjunction with SN?

I had never tried an anti-emetic before and didn't know how my body would react. So, I took some when I was feeling a little dizzy from alcohol. Seemed to work well.

I'll probably do the same thing with benzos. Take some a few days in advance just do I know how my body will react.

 

[justwannadip]

I didn't mean to offend, but the idea that the use of benzos is "superfluous" seems stupid to me, even if I had N in hand I would use a small amount of benzos to reduce anxiety if necessary, of course just N is already enough+AE,sure some people can do ctb easily without a second thought,some people don't mind the pain,but if the problem is to defeat SI benzos are crucial.

I think you guys are overstating the effect of benzos. As a prescribed user of benzos, even at higher doses they don't make you completely lose your anxiety. Yes they suppress it somewhat, and mainly remove physical anxiety symptoms (ie. panic attacks), but rumination and mental worry can very much still persist. Survival instinct is extremely strong and benzos aren't known to make you fearless in that manner. Also, and this is more crucial, benzos DO NOT directly reduce pain. While they may sedate you, which can potentially reduce your awareness somewhat, they do not keep you in an unconscious comatose-like state that barbiturates or strong opioids can. If you take a high dose of benzos and end up falling asleep, if someone slaps you in the face you will feel it. This shouldn't matter much though because SN is not known to be painful, and the best thing it does is reduce physical (and some mental) anxiety symptoms as well as keep you calmer and sedated. I wouldn't advertise benzos as a pain reliever or producer of an unconscious-like state, but rather as a wake-able sedative with anxiolytic properties.

 

[inevitable31]

I think you guys are overstating the effect of benzos. As a prescribed user of benzos, even at higher doses they don't make you completely lose your anxiety. Yes they suppress it somewhat, and mainly remove physical anxiety symptoms (ie. panic attacks), but rumination and mental worry can very much still persist. Survival instinct is extremely strong and benzos aren't known to make you fearless in that manner. Also, and this is more crucial, benzos DO NOT directly reduce pain. While they may sedate you, which can potentially reduce your awareness somewhat, they do not keep you in an unconscious comatose-like state that barbiturates or strong opioids can. If you take a high dose of benzos and end up falling asleep, if someone slaps you in the face you will feel it. This shouldn't matter much though because SN is not known to be painful, and the best thing it does is reduce physical (and some mental) anxiety symptoms as well as keep you calmer and sedated. I wouldn't advertise benzos as a pain reliever or producer of an unconscious-like state, but rather as a wake-able sedative with anxiolytic properties.

wont that many crushed benzos knock you out? we are not talking ab a regular dose.

 

[justwannadip]

wont that many crushed benzos knock you out? we are not talking ab a regular dose.

Yes, it definitely is likely to make you sleep. But its more of a deep sleep as opposed to unconsciousness with 0 awareness or feeling. It's rarely a pain reliever or anesthetic, even at high doses. It's hard to predict how it would affect SI or fear during the process. I'd assume that results would vary. If you have them or have access to them I would definitely recommend using them. Just don't want ppl to expect they're the equivalent to making SN like "nembutal" which some have mentioned.

 

[rj3542]

Yes, it definitely is likely to make you sleep. But its more of a deep sleep as opposed to unconsciousness with 0 awareness or feeling. It's rarely a pain reliever or anesthetic, even at high doses. It's hard to predict how it would affect SI or fear during the process. I'd assume that results would vary. If you have them or have access to them I would definitely recommend using them. Just don't want ppl to expect they're the equivalent to making SN like "nembutal" which some have mentioned.

That combo made me lose awareness. I crushed it to have onset before SN discomfort, but took it too soon. I made it to my bedroom and then lost awareness. I somehow knocked over the glass of SN, fell and scraped my leg up, and knocked over my lamp, then somehow got into bed. Then I slept for 22 hours. I don't remember any of it. I was still a bit out of it when I woke up too.

This may just be my metabolism though. If I'd taken it 5 mins before the SN it would have worked great for me. Now I don't have any Xanax or Valium left. Just Ativan and I don't think it will have as strong of an effect. I got this combo by using a benzos calculator and converting the 20x30mg oxazempam in PPH to the benzos I had.

 

[justwannadip]

That combo made me lose awareness. I crushed it to have onset before SN discomfort, but took it too soon. I made it to my bedroom and then lost awareness. I somehow knocked over the glass of SN, fell and scraped my leg up, and knocked over my lamp, then somehow got into bed. Then I slept for 22 hours. I don't remember any of it. I was still a bit out of it when I woke up too.

This may just be my metabolism though. If I'd taken it 5 mins before the SN it would have worked great for me. Now I don't have any Xanax or Valium left. Just Ativan and I don't think it will have as strong of an effect. I got this combo by using a benzos calculator and converting the 20x30mg oxazempam in PPH to the benzos I had.

Wow that's quite the experience. Remind me how much you took of the xanax and valium? The lack of awareness aspect as you describe is interesting and promising. I only have clonazepam so I'd have to crush that and take a large dose.

 

[rj3542]

Wow that's quite the experience. Remind me how much you took of the xanax and valium? The lack of awareness aspect as you describe is interesting and promising. I only have clonazepam so I'd have to crush that and take a large dose.

The protocol I tried is on the first page of this thread. Here's the benzos calculator I used, but not all benzos work the same. I think it was the Xanax and Valium combo with the Ativan for me. I'd never taken that much before. Usually just .25mg Ativan when I took it.

Benzodiazepine Conversion Calculator

Our benzodiazepine conversion calculator allows you to compute the equivalent doses of drugs when switching from one to another.

omnicalculator.com

 

[DOHARDTHINGS24]

Wow that's quite the experience. Remind me how much you took of the xanax and valium? The lack of awareness aspect as you describe is interesting and promising. I only have clonazepam so I'd have to crush that and take a large dose.

As I've said before & very sorry to repeat, but I take 400mg quetiapine daily plus 2 temazepam & a half to one diazepam - I sometimes take my adhd drugs & sometimes don't - & even with that cocktail, I often don't sleep or sleep much. And I used to take 800mg quetiapine. I crushed my temazepam a few nights ago & was surprised that they hit me quicker & I slept better but thought it was possibly coincidence or mind over matter. But I did it again the next night & same thing. And last night, I crushed the diazepam with the temazepam & took in one go & don't remember going to bed. And I take every day & have done for years. Plus at night after I've eaten. So I think that maybe for people that haven't taken before combined with crushing combined with a long period of fasting - it could potentially affect people quickly & aggressively. Not everyone has enough to do a trial run - I worry saying it'll hit hard might cause people unnecessary pain by not taking enough or taking too late but I also worry that others will get knocked out quickly before they get to the SN like OP above. I'm still figuring out what to do for myself. And I worry too much, obvs

 

[jjxt94]

The protocol says to take 400mg propranolol w/ SN so both mixed together - is there any reason it was taken w/ the antiemetic?

 

[Endisclose]

The protocol says to take 400mg propranolol w/ SN so both mixed together - is there any reason it was taken w/ the antiemetic?

That's strange. Are you sure? May I know where/which version of the pph did you get your protocol from? The version I have (2022 edition) says it was previously advised to take with the antiemetic (metoclopramide).

 

[dolemitedrums]

Not sure what to say. Sorry it didn't work out I guess but glad to still have you around.

 

[Catch-22]

Thank you, it seems my clonazepam quantity will do the job, my plan is to take lower ammounts of it progressively, until I'm almost falling asleep, than I will drink the SN and take the elephant benzo dosage after.

So you plan on taking around 40 mg crushed Klonopin after you drink the SN? I'm thinking 40 mg I believe that's what the conversion says but I might take 50mg because I have a high tolerance

 

[EternalSummer]

So you plan on taking around 40 mg crushed Klonopin after you drink the SN? I'm thinking 40 mg I believe that's what the conversion says but I might take 50mg because I have a high tolerance

Yep, something like that.

 

[jjxt94]

That's strange. Are you sure? May I know where/which version of the pph did you get your protocol from? The version I have (2022 edition) says it was previously advised to take with the antiemetic (metoclopramide).

the 2022 e-handbook has this over here- taken with the nitrite

 

[Endisclose]

the 2022 e-handbook has this over here- taken with the nitrite
View attachment 145923

The pph version I have from the 2022 edition (downloaded from Sasu) has the following..

Also time of onset for propranolol is said to be around 30 mins with peak concentrations in blood reaching between 60 and 90 mins.

Propranolol - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Given this, I think it makes more sense to take it with the meto if one is looking for relief from the tachycardia that SN could induce.

But your version simply talks about enhancing lethality of SN and not about any possible relief from tachycardia. I wonder if the propranolol is performing a different function in this case. For me SN by itself at the recommended amount is pretty lethal, not sure I'd want any additional enhancement to it as I think it may be superfluous, but if it could help to avoid any unpleasant symptoms after taking the SN, I felt it was certainly worthy of consideration.

 

[EternalSummer]

The pph version I have from the 2022 edition (downloaded from Sasu) has the following..
View attachment 145963
Also time of onset for propranolol is said to be around 30 mins with peak concentrations in blood reaching between 60 and 90 mins.

Propranolol - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Given this, I think it makes more sense to take it with the meto if one is looking for relief from the tachycardia that SN could induce.

But your version simply talks about enhancing lethality of SN and not about any possible relief from tachycardia. I wonder if the propranolol is performing a different function in this case. For me SN by itself at the recommended amount is pretty lethal, not sure I'd want any additional enhancement to it as I think it may be superfluous, but if it could help to avoid any unpleasant symptoms after taking the SN, I felt it was certainly worthy of consideration.

It was argued that the increased compensatory heart rate would give more oxygen to your brain, delaying unconsciousness. Propanolol functions both as tachycardia aliviator and as a potentializator to SN, as you would have even less oxygen being transferred to cells due to slow blood flow.

If you have access to it why not use it? Also, taking them with meto may be dangerous, since such a high dose could lower your blood pressure too much.
Taking them crushed seems to be safer. It's like benzos, some people take them way before the SN and go to sleep in another dimension before they even know it.

 

[Endisclose]

If you have access to it why not use it? Also, taking them with meto may be dangerous, since such a high dose could lower your blood pressure too much.
Taking them crushed seems to be safer. It's like benzos, some people take them way before the SN and go to sleep in another dimension before they even know it.

Oh I was/am planning on using it mainly as something that could avoid undesirable symptoms after taking SN.

The point that you raise about it lowering blood pressure in conjunction with meto is valid and concerning. Now am worried if this might cause enough CNS depression to create difficulties in being able to take the SN. On the other hand, given that this is the amount recommended by the experts in the pph, could the fears perhaps be exaggerated? One would presume they would have taken all factors into consideration.

I think I remember having read somewhere that the way propranolol makes it more lethal is by reducing the heart rate, increasing the oxygen requirements thereby hastening cardiac arrest.

I was initially planning to take 400 mg of propranolol with the meto. Now keeping in mind the CNS depression factor, I feel it may be prudent to go with a lower dose of maybe 120 to 200 mg if taken in conjunction with the meto.

It still doesn't make any sense taking it with the SN as time of onset is mentioned as 30 mins and peak level concentration is between 60 and 90 mins.

 

[EternalSummer]

Oh I was/am planning on using it mainly as something that could avoid undesirable symptoms after taking SN.

The point that you raise about it lowering blood pressure in conjunction with meto is valid and concerning. Now am worried if this might cause enough CNS depression to create difficulties in being able to take the SN. On the other hand, given that this is the amount recommended by the experts in the pph, could the fears perhaps be exaggerated? One would presume they would have taken all factors into consideration.

I think I remember having read somewhere that the way propranolol makes it more lethal is by reducing the heart rate, increasing the oxygen requirements thereby hastening cardiac arrest.

I was initially planning to take 400 mg of propranolol with the meto. Now keeping in mind the CNS depression factor, I feel it may be prudent to go with a lower dose of maybe 120 to 200 mg if taken in conjunction with the meto.

It still doesn't make any sense taking it with the SN as time of onset is mentioned as 30 mins and peak level concentration is between 60 and 90 mins.

In the PPH editions in which Propanolol is included in the protocol, it was instructed to be taken 400mg crushed mixed with the SN.

After it was removed and classified as "luxury", they vaguely stated it was no longer necessary to take them with meto, which could mean only that it was part of the protocol alongside with meto.

 

[Endisclose]

View attachment 145975
In the PPH editions in which Propanolol is included in the protocol, it was instructed to be taken 400mg crushed mixed with the SN.

It'd be interesting to see what's mentioned if there are any editions from previous years. I don't mind crushing it and taking it with the SN given that I was apprehensive of taking so many tablets before the SN (nearly 10 for 400 mg) as it would mean having to consume quite an amount of water as well.

With propranolol, I don't know if the 30 min time frame for time of onset applies for the medication in tablet form alone or if its equally applicable in crushed form as well. One would presume time of onset to be quicker when crushed. A search in an AI chatbot says onset would be faster potentially 15 to 30 mins when crushed, but that is still too late as the SN would have kicked in by then.

 

[jjxt94]

It'd be interesting to see what's mentioned if there are any editions from previous years. I don't mind crushing it and taking it with the SN given that I was apprehensive of taking so many tablets before the SN (nearly 10 for 400 mg) as it would mean having to consume quite an amount of water as well.

With propranolol, I don't know if the 30 min time frame for time of onset applies for the medication in tablet form alone or if its equally applicable in crushed form as well. One would presume time of onset to be quicker when crushed. A search in an AI chatbot says onset would be faster potentially 15 to 30 mins when crushed, but that is still too late as the SN would have kicked in by then.

while you would have to be aware of the onset of action under normal dosage circumstances, you'd also have to consider the loading dose as it would reach your blood levels of drug lot higher faster as you are taking 400mg instead of usual 40

This is same issue I have with benzos- I've been wondering when I should be taking them as taking at same time or after SN doesnt seem ideal in sedation/pain perspective

 

[Endisclose]

while you would have to be aware of the onset of action under normal dosage circumstances, you'd also have to consider the loading dose as it would reach your blood levels of drug lot higher faster as you are taking 400mg instead of usual 40

Yes I am not really sure if a higher strength of medication should necessarily mean a faster onset time. I feel the same with the benzos as the onset time would depend on the time taken for the medication to reach the small intestine and then into the blood stream.

I think this comes down fundamentally to the medication having to travel a certain distance (from stomach to small intestine) and consequently the time it needs to travel this distance. If in tablet form it has to be dissolved first and hence the onset would be longer.

If already in liquid form, it can get there quicker and so would be the onset of action. I feel the only difference with a higher dose would be the intensity of the sedatory effect that one would feel when the medicine kicks in. This should hasten onset of sleep (as this is what one is truly concerned about) which is different from onset of action.

With a lower dose one may still be semi awake even if the medication is active. I think onset of action time is constant across different strengths with the dosage determining onset of sleep and level of sedation.

Personally I feel taking the benzos right after the SN should be a good option as it says in the pph.

Taking it beforehand would carry a risk of passing out in advance or not being able to take the 2nd cup if needed. Also if there are negative symptoms after taking the SN, the benzos should help ease the symptoms and might hasten onset of sleep compared to taking SN alone. I feel it may be prudent to expect and put up with some level of discomfort rather than attempt to eliminate it altogether and risk a failed ctb.

 

[Catch-22]

Well it depends what you consider indispensable. At least for me, having to deal with all the side effects of SN before you go out sounds very scary. If you are more tolerant to this proccess than go ahead, but I'm very happy that I have access to mine sweet beautiful benzos. Wish everybody had, if they are listed in the PPH's SN guide is for a reason, peacefulness if fundamental.

I had planned on taking the suggested dose of benzos after drinking the first glass of SN but I know that amount would make me pass out pretty quickly. And I have a very high tolerance. My concern is I would be passed out and I might throw up in my sleep and I wouldn't be awake to drink the second glass if needed.

 

[Endisclose]

My concern is I would be passed out and I might throw up in my sleep and I wouldn't be awake to drink the second glass if needed.

I think this is SI related anxiety at work. I haven't come across a single case of someone following the protocol, taking the recommended amount, and throwing it up after losing consciousness and surviving it or suffering some sort of damage. The only such case I remember coming across was someone who had taken about 8g if memory serves me right and I think it was taken on impulse without any antiemetics. Ironically anxiety seems to be the main impediment to ctb.

 

[WeakWeave]

Goodluck, and may you find peace. Take care.

 

[nasigoreng99]

I had planned on taking the suggested dose of benzos after drinking the first glass of SN but I know that amount would make me pass out pretty quickly. And I have a very high tolerance. My concern is I would be passed out and I might throw up in my sleep and I wouldn't be awake to drink the second glass if needed.

That's also my concern. Throwing up in sleep and failed. In that case, we can reduce the amount of benzo? Instead of 20x30mg (600mg) of oxazepam, maybe take half? (300mg)
What do you think?

 

[Catch-22]

That's also my concern. Throwing up in sleep and failed. In that case, we can reduce the amount of benzo? Instead of 20x30mg (600mg) of oxazepam, maybe take half? (300mg)
What do you think?

oxazepam is considered a slow onset benzo. I will have to substitute it with Klonopin which has a fast onset so that's my issue.. It's probably the reason why they tell me to use oxazepam. It still seems to be a lot if you are taking that much right after the first glass. I really cannot tell you how much to take. My plan is to try to hold off as long as possible drinking the Klonopin. It does tell you in a PPH that anytime after drinking the first glass if you vomit you need to drink a second glass. It was going around on here someplace that you only needed to wait 10 minutes and if you don't vomit there's no need to drink a second glass but I didn't see that in the PPH. Since I do have a long history of taking benzos I have a good idea how much I could take beforehand without passing out before the procedure. So I will be taking a few beforehand but I do see some people on here passing out before they even drink the first class because they took too many beforehand. There's a lot to think out and it might come down to deciding what is the best plan right before or how you feel after you drink the first class.. it also depends on if you have a high tolerance to benzos. I don't have exact answers even for myself. I hope you have access to Metro.