Gonne use this site less. Tired of pro-death youngsters' hassle

[jodes2]

This site has been overrun with dominating pro-death youngsters' that have no concept of reasonableness, no concept of what recovery takes, or why trying is so important. Some pro-death idiots on here (no names, I'm not a total asshole unlike some) think it's not ok to offer people that post in the suicide section hope if recovery, hope of a good life. Well I have news for those morons. It is ok. This is a pro-choice forum, not a pro-death forum. That, plus laws of our countries, means we have a responsibility to offer hope to people, no matter where they post, unless it's clear they don't want hope offered. But that's rare.

If someone posts in the suicide section, that means the topic is suicide related. Not that they don't want hope offered! I'm sick of pro-death kids here giving me attitude. They can keep their miserable attitudes to themselves. I get PLENTY of thanks for my positivity, proving I'm doing the right thing. But there are always some bad apples, and they really bring me down and ruin my day.

I'm tempted to stop trying to help on this forum, and go elsewhere like Reddit, where the bad apples are fewer. This site has attracted some total scumbags that are asking for prison if they ever get doxxed. It's bad enough I give death tips, which I might stop doing, since it's punishable, and I don't get as many thanks for anyway. Which just leaves the games section for me to retreat to.

Also recently I had an extremely negative reaction from someone in the recovery section, just for giving advice they seemed to be asking for. I'm sick of crazy, rude, ungrateful, explosive people. They can go screw themselves too. Fuck em. I deserve better than to be treated like that.

So I'm off to find new pastures. I might try re-integratimg with normal society where things aren't so backward. It's a shame that it's come to this though, I used to see this place as a safe space. But it's not so much anymore. Sad. Very sad. I wish you all well. I'll be back from time to time, just not as much. I hope you avoid the scumbags and find positive, understanding people.

I won't be giving as many death tips as I did, because I've discovered that a majority of people here are under 25, which in my eyes means they simply have not given recovery a good enough shot, and are being impulsive. This would put more pressure on death-tip givers to be doxxed by police and prosecuted. I don't need that shit. I've helped enough people for a good member badge, and I think I'm done. Someone else can bloody take over. Do you know how many times I've given out sources? And not even received thanks? It's not worth it.

Well, I have my SN and knowledge on how to use it. Apart from venting, the only real use this site has for me now is to connect me a supplier if N when one next comes about. So I will still be keeping my eye open for that.

Anyway, best wishes to all. I hope the non-oro-destgers recover, and the asshole pro-death kiddies can fuck themselves. I hope they lead long, miserable lives for the misery they spread.

Ta ta

 

[BornToFail]

This site has been overrun with dominating pro-death youngsters' that have no concept of reasonableness, no concept of what recovery takes, or why trying is so important. Some pro-death idiots on here (no names, I'm not a total asshole unlike some) think it's not ok to offer people that post in the suicide section hope if recovery, hope of a good life. Well I have news for those morons. It is ok. This is a pro-choice forum, not a pro-death forum. That, plus laws of our countries, means we have a responsibility to offer hope to people, no matter where they post, unless it's clear they don't want hope offered. But that's rare.

If someone posts in the suicide section, that means the topic is suicide related. Not that they don't want hope offered! I'm sick of pro-death kids here giving me attitude. They can keep their miserable attitudes to themselves. I get PLENTY of thanks for my positivity, proving I'm doing the right thing. But there are always some bad apples, and they really bring me down and ruin my day.

I'm tempted to stop trying to help on this forum, and go elsewhere like Reddit, where the bad apples are fewer. This site has attracted some total scumbags that are asking for prison if they ever get doxxed. It's bad enough I give death tips, which I might stop doing, since it's punishable, and I don't get as many thanks for anyway. Which just leaves the games section for me to retreat to.

Also recently I had an extremely negative reaction from someone in the recovery section, just for giving advice they seemed to be asking for. I'm sick of crazy, rude, ungrateful, explosive people. They can go screw themselves too. Fuck em. I deserve better than to be treated like that.

So I'm off to find new pastures. I might try re-integratimg with normal society where things aren't so backward. It's a shame that it's come to this though, I used to see this place as a safe space. But it's not so much anymore. Sad. Very sad. I wish you all well. I'll be back from time to time, just not as much. I hope you avoid the scumbags and find positive, understanding people.

I won't be giving as many death tips as I did, because I've discovered that a majority of people here are under 25, which in my eyes means they simply have not given recovery a good enough shot, and are being impulsive. This would put more pressure on death-tip givers to be doxxed by police and prosecuted. I don't need that shit. I've helped enough people for a good member badge, and I think I'm done. Someone else can bloody take over. Do you know how many times I've given out sources? And not even received thanks? It's not worth it.

Well, I have my SN and knowledge on how to use it. Apart from venting, the only real use this site has for me now is to connect me a supplier if N when one next comes about. So I will still be keeping my eye open for that.

Anyway, best wishes to all. I hope the non-oro-destgers recover, and the asshole pro-death kiddies can fuck themselves. I hope they lead long, miserable lives for the misery they spread.

Ta ta

Fuck, where will I get my drama from now? How will I fill my vacant life?

 

[Dead Ghost]

Be patient, many are in the hell of adolescence (remember how it affected us) and totally ignore that these emotions will pass and even seem ridiculous next to what they will live well into adulthood.

But not everyone is like that, you must also remember, there are people from all walks of life... help who you can, in good faith, and that's it.

//

Tingues paciència, molts estàn en l'infern de l'adolescència (enrecorde-te'n de com ens afectava a nosaltres) i ignoren totalment que aquestes emocions se'ls passaràn i fins i tot els hi semblaràn ridícules al costat del que viuràn ben entrada l'etapa adulta.

Però no tots són així, també ho has de recordar, hi ha gent de tot... ajuda a qui puguis, de bona fe, i ja està.

 

[FuneralCry]

I hope you enjoy your privileged life. You have no idea what suffering even is, this place would be so much better off without deluded pro lifers like you. Bye bye and good riddance.

 

[actual_fox]

It was nice to read your posts from time to time.
Goodbye

 

[Shadowlord900]

I can somewhat understand your frustration, since you're only trying to help, and ideally helping someone to turn their life from bad to good would be better than just terminating a bad life (I say this even as someone who thinks most of the world has overpopulation issues).

While it's true this website can unfortunately attract some rash individuals who maybe haven't explored or try searching for other options, you need to remember that this site has a reputation of being the very few places where not only can people be open about wanting to end their life, but that others can also be open in supporting that. (If that person's country has laws against that, it's that person's risk in sharing their support with others wanting to end their life.)

The last thing most people here want to hear outside of the Recovery sub-forum is similar kind of discouragement one would hear from a suicide prevention hotline. (Before you jump on me for that, let me admit beforehand that I haven't actually used any suicide prevention hotlines before, I'm just assuming from other people's experiences from them that's what it sounds like.)

 

[Tired_only]

just because we are under 25 doesn't mean we haven't exhausted so many options. Plus some of us have gone through inexplicable trauma and pain that would take even the strongest person their lifetime to recover. Furthermore some of us also have chronic conditions which have no cure. Please don't speak about an age group when you don't know what any of us have personally gone through.

 

[RainAndSadness]

If you really want to leave the website because you disagree with a few people, that's your decision. I hope you'll find better people on reddit, but I'm not sure if they have the better community considering they censor any pro-choice viewpoints over there in almost every single subbreddit. I want to remind you that this forum exists because they banned the sanctioned-suicide subreddit. They have a very clear bias in this entire conversation. And I think judging people who are "under 25" and pretending they haven't thought enough about their options is a bit unfair and it's judgemental. I'm not that much older as these people and I've known for years what I want. But it's your opinion and I accept that. I'm sorry the forum left you frustrated but there isn't much I can do about that unless you want me to censor opinions you disagree with.

Regardless, good luck for your future.

 

[Unending]

I am a couple years under 25 and have definitely exhausted just about every treatment that is available with no success at all and I'm sure you can imagine how that makes me feel about my prognosis for life. I don't think its true that someone under 25 couldn't have possibly had enough time to put valid effort into recovery because I am someone who has. That being said, I'm not about to hop on one side of the "Pro-life vs. Pro-choice name calling debate" because I see points from each side and think its not so black and white. Plus that, it sucks that this is dividing and removing members of an already small community. That being said, I hope that you can get some space from the things that are bothering you about the website but at the same time I like seeing your posts but hope that you'll reconsider after giving it some thought.

 

[Sakura94]

I've not seen any difference honestly.

 

[jodes2]

I hope you enjoy your privileged life. You have no idea what suffering even is, this place would be so much better off without deluded pro lifers like you. Bye bye and good riddance.

I've not once criticised you mate. As a matter of fact, just a moment I stuck up for you. Someone PMd me saying you're having a b**** today. I have never said anything against you. And fuck off if you think I'm pro-life and haven't suffered. I've been deeply suicidal on and off for over 20 years. Get your facts right. But I forgive you. You obviously are entirely ignorant to the amount I've helped people looking for help to die, no pro-lifer in their right mind would to that. So please. Calm down, and sort out your mood. Don't be so fucking mean. I accept you're having a bad day, but control yourself FFS. Not acceptable mate. I'm used to your moaning, I'm sorry you suffer. But don't take out your miserableness on good people trying to help where others are 99% of the time grateful for it. If you want a pro-death place to lurk and spread misery without being pulled up for it, try r/promortalism on Reddit. You'll feel right at home with those miserable bastards. This forum is PRO-CHOICE. Now please, go and calm the fuck down. Sure, I am privileged compared to you. My life is not ALWAYS miserable. But often enough for me to be pro-choice out of principle. I'm balanced. I'm beginning to think you're not. You're an extreme. Sorry you don't even properly fit in here.

just because we are under 25 doesn't mean we haven't exhausted so many options. Plus some of us have gone through inexplicable trauma and pain that would take even the strongest person their lifetime to recover. Furthermore some of us also have chronic conditions which have no cure. Please don't speak about an age group when you don't know what any of us have personally gone through.

Fair enough. But I've seen too many young uns be impulsive, saying they want to CTB for clearly temporary, fixable problems. It's tragic, and I feel sorry for them. I don't have a problem with them, I just can't hand out death tips without a "but", that would be highly irresponsible, and pro-deathers are too immature to understand that. One day they'll come up against the wrong side of the law. I feel deeply sorry for people who have gone through a lot of suffering as young people, but while brains are undeveloped fully, there's every chance if recovery, and many are oblivious to how life can still change quickly for them. They would never in a million years be accepted for VAD even in Switzerland, because they have valid ethics they must abide by. Just as I do, being a citizen of a country with active police.

I am a couple years under 25 and have definitely exhausted just about every treatment that is available with no success at all and I'm sure you can imagine how that makes me feel about my prognosis for life. I don't think its true that someone under 25 couldn't have possibly had enough time to put valid effort into recovery because I am someone who has. That being said, I'm not about to hop on one side of the "Pro-life vs. Pro-choice name calling debate" because I see points from each side and think its not so black and white. Plus that, it sucks that this is dividing and removing members of an already small community. That being said, I hope that you can get some space from the things that are bothering you about the website but at the same time I like seeing your posts but hope that you'll reconsider after giving it some thought.

Thank you, I deeply appreciate your understanding. I hope I can return the favour by apologising if I offended you, and saying I'm sorry for all the suffering you've been through I hope you find peace, one way or another

 

[CTB Dream]

Sorry see go this here not fight should this sufferi, not attaxk group etc this outer sam, hops peace

 

[jodes2]

Sorry see go this here not fight should this sufferi, not attaxk group etc this outer sam, hops peace

Peace to you too my friend thank you for replying

 

[Angst Filled Fuck Up]

I think if you use this site it's probably best not to hold any opinions relating to ctb that are too ingrained one way or another. We shouldn't encourage it or physically aid anyone, but we also can't gatekeep - and that's the problem with the age thing. Basically everyone's reasons for being here are valid.

You've always seemed like a good dude jodes and I wish you the best whatever you decide to do.

 

[Himalayan]

I've not once criticised you mate. As a matter of fact, just a moment I stuck up for you. Someone PMd me saying you're having a b**** today. I have never said anything against you. And fuck off if you think I'm pro-life and haven't suffered. I've been deeply suicidal on and off for over 20 years. Get your facts right. But I forgive you. You obviously are entirely ignorant to the amount I've helped people looking for help to die, no pro-lifer in their right mind would to that. So please. Calm down, and sort out your mood. Don't be so fucking mean. I accept you're having a bad day, but control yourself FFS. Not acceptable mate. I'm used to your moaning, I'm sorry you suffer. But don't take out your miserableness on good people trying to help where others are 99% of the time grateful for it. If you want a pro-death place to lurk and spread misery without being pulled up for it, try r/promortalism on Reddit. You'll feel right at home with those miserable bastards. This forum is PRO-CHOICE. Now please, go and calm the fuck down. Sure, I am privileged compared to you. My life is not ALWAYS miserable. But often enough for me to be pro-choice out of principle. I'm balanced. I'm beginning to think you're not. You're an extreme. Sorry you don't even properly fit in here.

Fair enough. But I've seen too many young uns be impulsive, saying they want to CTB for clearly temporary, fixable problems. It's tragic, and I feel sorry for them. I don't have a problem with them, I just can't hand out death tips without a "but", that would be highly irresponsible, and pro-deathers are too immature to understand that. One day they'll come up against the wrong side of the law. I feel deeply sorry for people who have gone through a lot of suffering as young people, but while brains are undeveloped fully, there's every chance if recovery, and many are oblivious to how life can still change quickly for them. They would never in a million years be accepted for VAD even in Switzerland, because they have valid ethics they must abide by. Just as I do, being a citizen of a country with active police.

Thank you, I deeply appreciate your understanding. I hope I can return the favour by apologising if I offended you, and saying I'm sorry for all the suffering you've been through I hope you find peace, one way or another

Bro just ignore. Some people appreciate it, just don't fight whit the obvious ppl that will hate you.
This entire discussion, is dumb. People acting like pro lifing is gatekeeping something, when the information is already there, available to everyone. It's clear that these people have internal issues that gets triggered everytime they read anything positive.

Btw i don't consider you pro life, i just used those terms for practical uses.

 

[Life_and_Death]

I think judging people who are "under 25" and pretending they haven't thought enough about their options is a bit unfair and it's judgemental.

^

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

You seem like you've got a good head on your shoulders, and I appreciate you trying to inject a dose of optimistic support in some convos even though some might see it as contrarian.

It's good to have more than one perspective, and there's no shame in trying to share your advice with people when you're concerned about them. Hope whatever comes next for you is a lot more chill than the negative interactions you may have had here that have unfortunately driven you to leave.

because I've discovered that a majority of people here are under 25, which in my eyes means they simply have not given recovery a good enough shot, and are being impulsive.

As one of the under 25s, I think it's this sort of sentiment that rubs people the wrong way, simply because there is so much variation in the types of issues that younger people can have. We can't all be painted with the same brush.

Maturity isn't set in stone at a certain age, there are 30 year olds out there who act like teenagers, and 20 year olds who were forced to grow up incredibly quickly due to adverse life events, possessing a level of tenacity that may be foreign to older folks who got to follow a relatively normal life path and might not have experienced those sort of tragedies yet.

Brain development is a highly individualised and complex process, hence we can't really set a clear cut off age for when a person is deemed to be more calculated rather than impulsive. We can only make rough estimates which aren't going to account for the dynamic variation present in such a vast population.

I do agree that there are some impulsive younger people here, who would benefit from reflecting more about their issues before jumping the gun to serious ctb plans. Usually those types of users don't reveal much of their story and disappear quickly, so it is hard to really get to the bottom of what's causing them to be suicidal or how it could potentially be alleviated.

However, not all younger people are impulsive. I've suffered greatly since early childhood, and now have multiple health problems at the ripe age of 23. I've probably tried more things than the out there edge cases you'd find in scientific literature for my conditions. There is a certain kind of hell and anguish to be a younger person, who has tried honestly and fairly to give life a shot, but continues to be kicked in the teeth by it again and again, then told you aren't trying hard enough to fix the mess you never asked for. A bad childhood leaves deep scars that can and will impact the trajectory of your life.

The younger you are, the more people will cast doubt upon your judgement or invalidate your pain, as if only the old and feeble can become ill or be alone. People seem to think that there are many options at your disposal for improving your life when you're still in your 20s, but in my experience this simply hasn't been the case. To be a younger person who is disabled, abused, and sickly is to be a leper to your energetic peers who are out partying, building careers, and popping out babies.

It is frustrating to constantly see the debate over age, because misfortune can strike anybody, young or old. The odds just increase of wracking up bad experience the older you are, as it's almost guaranteed that you will have suffered grief, loss, stress, pressure from jobs, dating and marriage, disease, etc later on in life. This doesn't mean that younger people are immune from experiencing these adversities though. Many suicidal people do start having the urge to not exist during childhood and shoulder this burden well into their teenager years and 20s until they finally snap and can't take it anymore.

 

[Chinaski]

However, not all younger people are impulsive. I've suffered greatly since early childhood, and now have multiple health problems at the ripe age of 23. I've probably tried more things than the out there edge cases you'd find in scientific literature for my conditions. There is a certain kind of hell and anguish to be a younger person, who has tried honestly and fairly to give life a shot, but continues to be kicked in the teeth by it. A bad childhood leaves deep scars that can and will impact the trajectory of your life.

The younger you are, the more people will cast doubt upon your judgement or invalidate your pain, as if only the old and feeble can become ill or be alone. People seem to think that there are many options at your disposal for improving your life when you're still in your 20s, but in my experience this simply hasn't been the case. To be a younger person who is disabled, abused, and sickly is to be a leper to your energetic peers who are out partying, building careers, and popping out babies.

It is frustrating to constantly see the debate over age, because misfortune can strike anybody, young or old. The odds just increase of wracking up bad experience the older you are, as it's almost guaranteed that you will have suffered grief, loss, stress, pressure from jobs, dating and marriage, disease, etc later on in life. This doesn't mean that younger people are immune from experiencing these adversities though. Many suicidal people do start having the urge to not exist during childhood and shoulder this burden well into their teenager years and 20s until they finally snap and can't take it anymore.

Fully agree with this, l personally find suicide is not something to enthusiastically celebrate whatever the age and whilst suicide amongst the more youthful carries extra tragedy l also remember how l often felt when l was under 25 and l was certainly not incapable of making adult decisions.

Having said that, being somewhat uncomfortable with young suicide is not an uncommon opinion even amongst the suicidal and whilst l understand and agree with the counter arguments l certainly don't see why it's *massively* offensive, certainly not to the point of them being a "deluded prolifer" who must be immediately shitcanned. It's not as if Jodes seeks to stop anyone here from killing themselves, nor are they holding any legislative power to provide a doctor willing to deliver instadeath on a silver platter to anyone's home which they refuse to use.

 

[KuriGohan&Kamehameha]

Fully agree with this, l personally find suicide is not something to enthusiastically celebrate whatever the age and whilst suicide amongst the more youthful carries extra tragedy l also remember how l often felt when l was under 25 and l was certainly not incapable of making adult decisions.

Having said that, being somewhat uncomfortable with young suicide is not an uncommon opinion even amongst the suicidal and whilst l understand and agree with the counter arguments l certainly don't see why it's *massively* offensive, certainly not to the point of them being a "deluded prolifer" who must be immediately shitcanned. It's not as if Jodes seeks to stop anyone here from killing themselves, nor are they holding any legislative power to provide a doctor willing to deliver instadeath on a silver platter to anyone's home which they refuse to use.

The word pro-lifer is losing it's meaning. Peppridge Farm remembers when pro lifer was a term used to refer to those MumsNet type media sensationalists who were against euthanasia for even the terminally ill, because to them even the mere validation of the act is immoral and unethical no matter the circumstances. Life no matter the cost.

Now, anyone who disagrees with their opposition in a heated row is gonna get called a pro-lifer in a pejorative way, if they suggest that there is a more nuanced balance to be had when discussing what is arguably the most serious decision you can ever make, to continue living or not.

I understand many people are frustrated with not being heard, and have had their own struggles and emotions silenced when discussing suicide with people in real life or on other platforms. But just because someone tries to offer another perspective or a different kind of support does not warrant getting slapped with an insult (pro-lifer) which effectively has mutated into an accusation of invalidating someone else's pain.

 

[Chinaski]

The word pro-lifer is losing it's meaning. Peppridge Farm remembers when pro lifer was a term used to refer to those MumsNet type media sensationalists who were against euthanasia for even the terminally ill, because to them even the mere validation of the act is immoral and unethical no matter the circumstances. Life no matter the cost.

Now, anyone who disagrees with their opposition in a heated row is gonna get called a pro-lifer in a pejorative way, if they suggest that there is a more nuanced balance to be had when discussing what is arguably the most serious decision you can ever make, to continue living or not.

I understand many people are frustrated with not being heard, and have had their own struggles and emotions silenced when discussing suicide with people in real life or on other platforms. But just because someone tries to offer another perspective or a different kind of support does not warrant getting slapped with an insult (pro-lifer) which effectively has mutated into an accusation of invalidating someone else's pain.

Absolutely spot on, will also state here, as diplomatically as possible, that this atmosphere is not helped by staff very obviously endorsing one view and defending members who like to wilfully brand anyone they dislike as a "prolifer", an outsider, an enemy who must be treated as such. It's visible in this very thread, and as stated elsewhere if the forum is to be shaped in accordance with the position of a tiny minority of prominent members and an increasingly playground level of aggressively cliquey conduct and associated opinion infallibility the place will absolutely diminish imho.

 

[jodes2]

You seem like you've got a good head on your shoulders, and I appreciate you trying to inject a dose of optimistic support in some convos even though some might see it as contrarian.

It's good to have more than one perspective, and there's no shame in trying to share your advice with people when you're concerned about them. Hope whatever comes next for you is a lot more chill than the negative interactions you may have had here that have unfortunately driven you to leave.



As one of the under 25s, I think it's this sort of sentiment that rubs people the wrong way, simply because there is so much variation in the types of issues that younger people can have. We can't all be painted with the same brush.

Maturity isn't set in stone at a certain age, there are 30 year olds out there who act like teenagers, and 20 year olds who were forced to grow up incredibly quickly due to adverse life events, possessing a level of tenacity that may be foreign to older folks who got to follow a relatively normal life path and might not have experienced those sort of tragedies yet.

Brain development is a highly individualised and complex process, hence we can't really set a clear cut off age for when a person is deemed to be more calculated rather than impulsive. We can only make rough estimates which aren't going to account for the dynamic variation present in such a vast population.

I do agree that there are some impulsive younger people here, who would benefit from reflecting more about their issues before jumping the gun to serious ctb plans. Usually those types of users don't reveal much of their story and disappear quickly, so it is hard to really get to the bottom of what's causing them to be suicidal or how it could potentially be alleviated.

However, not all younger people are impulsive. I've suffered greatly since early childhood, and now have multiple health problems at the ripe age of 23. I've probably tried more things than the out there edge cases you'd find in scientific literature for my conditions. There is a certain kind of hell and anguish to be a younger person, who has tried honestly and fairly to give life a shot, but continues to be kicked in the teeth by it again and again, then told you aren't trying hard enough to fix the mess you never asked for. A bad childhood leaves deep scars that can and will impact the trajectory of your life.

The younger you are, the more people will cast doubt upon your judgement or invalidate your pain, as if only the old and feeble can become ill or be alone. People seem to think that there are many options at your disposal for improving your life when you're still in your 20s, but in my experience this simply hasn't been the case. To be a younger person who is disabled, abused, and sickly is to be a leper to your energetic peers who are out partying, building careers, and popping out babies.

It is frustrating to constantly see the debate over age, because misfortune can strike anybody, young or old. The odds just increase of wracking up bad experience the older you are, as it's almost guaranteed that you will have suffered grief, loss, stress, pressure from jobs, dating and marriage, disease, etc later on in life. This doesn't mean that younger people are immune from experiencing these adversities though. Many suicidal people do start having the urge to not exist during childhood and shoulder this burden well into their teenager years and 20s until they finally snap and can't take it anymore.

Thank you for taking the time and patience to enlighten me in the kindest way possible, I apologise for using the same brush on everyone under 25, you're right, it's not fair. It's unfortunate that people who help young people die are more likely to be targeted by the law though, which still makes it risky. I imagine that's why even Pegasos, the most last euthanasia clinic, are less likely to help younger people, especially if they have depression

I think if you use this site it's probably best not to hold any opinions relating to ctb that are too ingrained one way or another. We shouldn't encourage it or physically aid anyone, but we also can't gatekeep - and that's the problem with the age thing. Basically everyone's reasons for being here are valid.

You've always seemed like a good dude jodes and I wish you the best whatever you decide to do.

Thank you so much You're always so kind

 

[RainAndSadness]

Absolutely spot on, will also state here, as diplomatically as possible, that this atmosphere is not helped by staff very obviously endorsing one view and defending members who to wilfully brand anyone they dislike as a "prolifer", an outsider, an enemy who must be treated as such. It's visible in this very thread, and as stated elsewhere if the forum is to be shaped in accordance with the position of a tiny minority of prominent members and an increasingly playground level of aggressively cliquey conduct and associated opinion infallibility the place will absolutely diminish imho.

Nobody has endorsed anything, you have voiced a bias towards life in your own posts in this thread. There are different types of pro-lifers and the people who principically and vocally disagree with suicide for religious reasons in every single instance are a tiny minority and they're not the problem. That's very important to realize. The problem are those people who gatekeep suicide and want to protect "young and vulnerable people", implying they don't have a right to individual autonomy because they make up the majority of society. They're the problem and this sentiment was voiced by Jodes2 as well. I'm not saying they are pro-life but they definitely have talking points that resemble a pro-life position. And look, let's say the term "pro-life" doesn't mean anything - sure, the term annoys me as well because it doesn't accurately describe the position of those people who oppose the right to die. I think anti-choice is a better term to describe people who think they decide who has a right to die and who hasn't, based on arbitrary factors they've created. Now, are you anti-choice? It's a very simple question. Either you are or you're not but there is no in-between. Do you respect individual autonomy, period? I'm so tired of all that talk about young people and how they can't make up their own mind. We as society agreed on the age of majority and that's the line I draw when we talk about a right to decide over your own life and death. And there is nothing that suggest young people don't have mental capacity to make their own decision. And that's by the way not even a controversial or "pro-death" sentiment, that's exactly what the Consitutional Court of Germany ruled in 2020. Read here:
The full article is linked.





They made the case that every single adult has a right to die, period. And I think that's the line we should draw as a society. They made their case with coherent and consequent arguments that are relatable and easy to understand to all of us. Is that an extreme position? No it's not, it's actually the only correct position on this topic. Anything else violates very basic ethical principles, so either wear it on your sleeve or don't say anything at all but don't pretend that you're "all in favor of individual autonomy" if you think we need to gatekeep the right to die because if that's your position, you're not "all in favor of individual autonomy" at all. In that case you think we have a right to interfere with the individual autonomy of adults of a certain age and that implies you have an inherent bias towards life. And I think when some people call you "pro-life", that's what they mean in that specific instance. They don't mean you don't support the right to die, they mean you have a very specific bias against the right to die under certain arbitrary conditions. Is it okay to frame your position like that? Does the term "pro-life" make more sense in that context? I don't agree with that term but it's certainly the way I interpret the argument that happened over the past few days and over several threads that lead to this situation.

And look. I was in my early 20s when I registered in this forum. I'm one of these people. I knew exactly what I wanted when I came to this forum. Nothing has changed, years later. And I know so many people who are twice my age and they don't act mature at all so why do we care so much about age and not maturity? The sentiment that we can't make our own decisions isn't just bogus, it's also harmful. It's regressive and it denies very basic ethical principles that are laid out in that court ruling I've linked. Every single member in this forum has a reason to be here and they are here voluntarily because they specifically searched for this type of content.

And to address the first post in this thread again, if another adult says "hey I don't want your advice" in this forum, why do you take it personal? Why is it your problem? Don't they have a right to reject your opinion because they know what they want? Maybe it triggers some people because they made bad life experiences with people who feel the need to give out unsolicited advice? I made bad experiences in these regards. That happens all the time and in some instances, said advice comes with very difficult power dynamics in the case of psychiatric intervention for example. I totally understand that because people used to gaslight me too and it's frustrating because you can't fight back. And it's even more frustrating when it happens on an online forum you consider a safe space, a forum you specifically use to escape all that nonsense and people who don't know you, think they know what you need. You know you want to leave and you constantly have people throwing advice at you, after a certain while that just sucks. You act as if people need to act thankful because a white knight gave them some advice, which makes you the center of the interaction, not the person who is suffering. That's problematic to be honest. I think respecting boundaries of suicidal people is something we as a society need to learn because we really don't do them justice in these regards. And yes, that includes young people who say no. They have every right to say no, as long as they've reached the age of majority. I thought that's social consensus.

 

[Chinaski]

I doubt very much a post stating "you have no idea what suffering is and live a privileged life, this forum is better off without deluded people like you" would have been given the heart-react from staff had l stated it to the person who posted it tbqhwy.

 

[RainAndSadness]

I doubt very much a post stating "you have no idea what suffering is and live a privileged life, this forum is better off without deluded people like you" would have been given the heart-react from staff had l stated it to the person who posted it tbqhwy.

I've just explained to you why the sentiment voiced in that particular post isn't too far-stretched. I explained to you in great detail what "pro-life" could mean with the context of this thread, especially the first post. I literally spent several paragraphs trying to explain to you that the term "pro-life" could have different meanings with different context and I also said I don't agree with that interpretation but I think that's what's happened here. Take it or leave it. It's your decision but to think I've endorsed a certain position is absurd. Maybe I just understand where a certain poster comes from but you know, trying to understand each other hasn't really been the strength of some people here in the last few days. Let's just put it like that.

 

[Chinaski]

You don't owe me an explanation of any length, however this a repeated and obvious bias wherein certain people are allowed, encouraged even, to point at any old shit and call it "prolife" and any disagreement with this divisive conduct faces the possibility of moderator opprobrium. This will naturally result in a poor atmosphere and as the forum itself bends to this narrow opinion infallibility, the forum itself will subsequently suffer.

This is obviously just my opinion, I am merely a dickhead on the internet and you are also free to, as you say, "take it or leave it", l don't mind.

 

[RainAndSadness]

You don't owe me an explanation of any length, however this a repeated and obvious bias wherein certain people are allowed, encouraged even, to point at any old shit and call it "prolife" and any disagreement with this divisive conduct faces the possibility of moderator opprobrium. This will naturally result in a poor atmosphere and as the forum itself bends to this narrow opinion infallibility, the forum itself will subsequently suffer.

This is obviously just my opinion, I am merely a dickhead on the internet and you are also free to, as you say, "take it or leave it", l don't mind.

Okay so you'll just ignore me trying to explain why it makes sense to call someone pro-life under certain circumstances and with a certain interpretation of said word when they don't oppose suicide in general but advocate for gatekeeping, which is a sentiment that's been expressed here. And because I've tried to explain how that makes sense, it means obviously that this is my position too. Why don't you want to discuss the meaning of pro-life? This word is the very reason we had debates and arguments over the past few days. If you're interested in a good-faith conversation, we should be able to explore what that terms means and when it's okay or even understandable to use that term on someone else. Or let's just say "baaad, baaad" and continue the cycle because that's apparently the better solution to this entire conflict that's been fueling drama for the past few days.

 

[littlelady774]

I hate when mom and dad fight :(

 

[Chinaski]

We don't need to explore what the term means. My opinions on euthanasia, suicide being Great And Also Very Romantic, death being beautiful, how people are assholes for not sending a doctor round to kill me, some pseudo-philosophers latest tedious essay or whatever the hell Pro Life Checklist item is irrelevant when literally anyone on here is at liberty to kill themselves right now and l believe that's entirely their choice to do so if they wish, as does pretty much everyone here.

If the term is to be explored, maybe start with the people who deliberately and manipulatively throw it around wantonly whenever someone expresses a difference of opinion with what is gradually becoming the dominant theme of this forum. It's no longer enough to be here because you experience suicidality, it must also be shown that you agree with the correct copypaste discussion points as endorsed by staff or face the application of a label as a means of shunning you from the group. As this continues, the meaning of the term diminishes anyway, to the point where now it can be used to simply mean "someone l don't like".

 

[RainAndSadness]

Hm. That's an interesting post containing nothing but ad hominems. The problem is you mention me indirectly and invite me to this conversation and now you back out because you don't want to discuss the elephant in the room. And I think you don't want discuss the elephant in the room because you realize it makes sense to call someone who wants to gatekeep suicide, calling members under 25 "impulsive" people who simply haven't thought of recovery yet as if we have a duty to save them and talking about "pro-death kiddies, who can go fuck themselves" and "live a long and miserable life" pro-life. Okay. I mean, if that wasn't a mask off moment, I don't know what is. Maybe you simply agree with them and that's why you can't understand why some people don't take these words too kindly because they're insulting and judgemental but hey, I liked a post of FC that specifically calls these parts out, that's the real problem here. Yikes.

 

[Chinaski]

"Mask-off moment"? Is this like when you said l was "no better than the fixers"? If so, this is exactly the snidey, playground crap I'm describing. I mean, is this place now all about sniffing around to find whose opinions tally with those in the in-club?