God must want this

[Cadetmd]

I have an ma and still spent the past 3 years working 2 jobs 7 days a week. I have applied to over 2k places with no response. Every week it is some new emergency, car, have to move, hernia, sciatica pain, tooth out eat. My best friends used the crush that I had on a mutual friend to use me. It seems every step I take I end up being pun8shed with some major calamity most people deal with only once or twice a year. After years of this I'm burnt out. The only God who can exist is one who despises me and wants me dead. Why else the constant emergencies in every aspect of my life just non stop. God wants me to kill myself.

 

[Caerula]

I hope it is not rude to ask, but do you consider yourself religious?

 

[millefeui]

If there is a god, I don't think "He" even has any sort of consciousness. My belief is that "He" would be pure, sheer "energy" of some sort, rather than some mysterious omnipresent, omnipotent and and omniscient being who controls our lives.

I am sorry you are going through hard times, but that is just the nature of this world. It sucks, for most of us, really.

 

[Dead Girl Don't Care]

It is a sad truth, existence is far from fair. Some people get handed a loving family, a great job, safety and security, joy and contentedness, while others--many of us here--get life-long strings of exactly the opposite. And it isn't as simple as the good ol' capitalist mantra: 'hard work = success' either. Some people just have luck in the birth lottery or luck in this or luck in that. And others just keep drawing shit cards their whole life. Can they blame us for wanting to fold?

If there is a god, he/she/it is completely indifferent to us, and couldn't give a shit if one were to kill themselves or not.

 

[Vox]

I agree with the idea that "God" is not involved in our lives. I was brought up religious, but the things I observe don't match any theory of a benevolent god. And at the same time if god is an a-hole then the world should be burned to cinders by now. So either god is neutral or there is no god.

Actually there's a 3rd possibility I've been seriously thinking about. What if god is good but weak? That sorta contradicts the "omniscient omnipotent" description all religions preach, but as long as we're inventing ideas of supreme beings, it's very possible that the supreme being is sick, dying, or trapped under something heavy.

I guess it doesn't really matter. Everything points to the idea that we're screwed.

 

[millefeui]

I agree with the idea that "God" is not involved in our lives. I was brought up religious, but the things I observe don't match any theory of a benevolent god. And at the same time if god is an a-hole then the world should be burned to cinders by now. So either god is neutral or there is no god.

Actually there's a 3rd possibility I've been seriously thinking about. What if god is good but weak? That sorta contradicts the "omniscient omnipotent" description all religions preach, but as long as we're inventing ideas of supreme beings, it's very possible that the supreme being is sick, dying, or trapped under something heavy.

I guess it doesn't really matter. Everything points to the idea that we're screwed.

That is an interesting theory. Perhaps, in His act of creating the universe and all the things, He lost His power and all He can do now is watch as His precious creations (humans) destroy themselves and everything else they can put their hands on.

I keep capitalizing God, He, etc just out of respect for those who believe in God, but I wonder if there is even anyone religious here.

My view on God being some sort of energy is sorta based on the concept of karma and positive/negative flows of energy from Allan Kardec's books (Spiritist Codification). If by doing good/bad things, you accumulate good/bad karma or bring to your life good/bad energy, then from my perspective, it makes more sense for God to be, well, a non-physical sort-of-energy thing rather than an entity.

Of course, that only works under the assumption that anything spiritual exists. I believe there is more to existence than just our lives on Earth, but what? I don't know, I can only theorize. Also, the whole karma and energy things only work if you put reincarnation in the table, considering many humans do horrible things and live their lives happily, without any consequences.

 

[Vox]

That is an interesting theory. Perhaps, in His act of creating the universe and all the things, He lost His power and all He can do now is watch as His precious creations (humans) destroy themselves and everything else they can put their hands on.

That's entirely possible... you might even wonder if the creation of life was an accident (like in Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, where some believe the universe was born out of a sneeze haha)

I keep capitalizing God, He, etc just out of respect for those who believe in God, but I wonder if there is even anyone religious here.

lol I do the same thing, only I just capitalize God half the time and use lowercase the other half, to express my confusion/apathy toward the whole concept

My view on God being some sort of energy is sorta based on the concept of karma and positive/negative flows of energy from Allan Kardec's books (Spiritist Codification). If by doing good/bad things, you accumulate good/bad karma or bring to your life good/bad energy, then from my perspective, it makes more sense for God to be, well, a non-physical sort-of-energy thing rather than an entity.

Of course, that only works under the assumption that anything spiritual exists. I believe there is more to existence than just our lives on Earth, but what? I don't know, I can only theorize. Also, the whole karma and energy things only work if you put reincarnation in the table, considering many humans do horrible things and live their lives happily, without any consequences.

Truth be told, I agree with the god = energy concept. Sometimes I literally think god = gravity. An invisible force that binds all things together and gives order to the universe without interfering or expecting anything else.

I also agree with the idea of positive and negative energies. Certain acts (karma) feel good while others feel bad, regardless of whether these acts benefit our physical bodies. It feels good/productive to create things; it feel bad/wasteful to destroy. At its most basic we're talking about order vs. chaos, and I think all living things are programmed for order in some sense.

As for spirituality, sure I believe in things we don't see. I believe in a scientific sense. Nobody has ever truly defined consciousness, or "sentience". It's more than just neurons firing in a brain, otherwise we'd be able to animate a dead brain by zapping it and making it think again. No, there's some other component to consciousness which vanishes once you die. Where does it go? That's the million dollar question. If we're sticking with the scientific train of thought, energy/mass can never be destroyed. It just dissipates into little bits until it regroups. So maybe consciousness behaves the same way?

And that's the thought that stops me from offing myself (when I'm thinking logically). As much as my life sucks to be me, it beats floating around the cosmos powerless for billions of years, waiting to find a host.

But then who knows, even if consciousness persists after death, maybe it doesn't feel anything until it ends up in a body. In other words, total oblivion... which sounds pretty darn good right now.

Well that was a long spiel. I hope some of it made sense!

 

[Fylobatica]

Nobody has ever truly defined consciousness, or "sentience".

There's surely a lot of work to do to improve our knowledge, but some of the main components of our consciousness arise from interactions between brain regions located in the brainstem and the cortex. In scientific literature there were also many patients with brain injuries who were restored to cognizance with electrical stimulation of the thalamus (and the claustrum, which basically is a near area that communicates with the primordial part of the human brain).

I think that consciousness is strictly one among many physical phenomena that needs a specific structure to be activated, in this case a map of neural connections (as much as any other phenomenon in our universe doesn't happen if some conditions don't occur at the same time) and all of the experiments that have been lead until today give proof to what seems to be more than a theory.

You also might find this interesting: https://phys.org/news/2016-04-insects-consciousness.html

 

[Vox]

There's surely a lot of work to do to improve our knowledge, but some of the main components of our consciousness arise from interactions between brain regions located in the brainstem and the cortex ...

Thanks for that interesting info & link. Science & philosophy approach the question of consciousness/existence from very different angles, and I think science is quick to gloss over fundamental issues that have no known answer. That's where I have trouble...

For example, as the article points out:

The consciousness of others is a thorny philosophical problem. Our typical handle on consciousness is through observing behaviour. We think babies and dogs feel hungry, in part because they act like we do when we feel hungry.

Right there we should call foul. To define & assume consciousness exists, or doesn't exist, in others based on our perception of others acting like us? Yikes! By that reasoning, a cgi animation would be conscious. The only reason it's not is because we know it's a cgi animation. But suppose the scientist didn't know? He would see a "person" walking, talking, crying & showing emotion, so scientifically he would assume the animation is conscious.That's my problem with many scientific definitions. It proceeds from general observations and makes leaps of logic that aren't philosophically verified.

So to approach the question of consciousness, I go back to the philosophers. Unfortunately regarding consciousness/existence, no philosopher has ever gotten beyond Descartes: "I think, therefore I am."

In other words, the only proof of consciousness is what the individual can say about itself. Everything else is an observation, or as philosophers call it, 'r' (lowercase r for 'reality') while there is a greater truth 'R' (uppercase 'R' for Reality) that we only *think* we see.

Wow, I'm getting pretty deep into this, I hope I'm not losing anyone ha. But I guess my point is, philosophically speaking, we have no idea what consciousness is, or even if anything else in the universe is conscious. Each one of us could be dreaming, a simulation, or some other subjective reality. And that's where the question of death really gets confusing. When you die (in this 'r' reality), what happens to your consciousness in 'R' Reality?

 

[Fylobatica]

But suppose the scientist didn't know? He would see a "person" walking, talking, crying & showing emotion, so scientifically he would assume the animation is conscious.

Not exactly-- that's why I started my reply pointing out that to have a human consciousness, you necessarily need a connectome (your personal unique scheme of neuronal connections in your brain) and specific structures (such as the thalamic complex, the midbrain and the brain stem among many others). The CGI animation does not satisfy those conditions, then there would be no problems in differentiating the two.

We assume that other people are also conscious because basically they satisfy those conditions. They're humans like us. And we aren't far from the mark, everybody can confirm that they're having a subjective experience of life-- the way that each of us perceive it might (slightly) vary because of a different conformation of our sensory organs (due to genetics and/or medical issues), but I'd say that everybody's "cut and dry" perception of existence is kind of the same.

 

[Vox]

I'd say that everybody's "cut and dry" perception of existence is kind of the same.

It seems that way, but that's each person's subjective observation. And subjective observation has no way of being verified. See where I'm going... I'm exposing the potential flaw in all "facts" that are based on observation (as opposed to facts that are derived from absolute definitions).

How do we define the number 2? It is defined as the sum of 1 and 1. So by absolute definition, 1+1=2. I'm good with that.

But how do we define abstract concepts like consciousness? Or for that matter "God"?

Each person, scientist, priest has a different definition. And each person swears theirs is the truth. This is the folly of observational conclusions.

Logic, or the language of philosophy, has clear absolute definitions which is why I always go back to philosophy regarding abstract ideas of existence. I agree there is a "correlation" between consciousness and neural impulses. But it's a leap of logic to say that consciousness *is* neural impulses, or vice versa. It reminds me of when 19th century scientists observed maggots growing in a pile of dirty rags and concluded that maggots spontaneously generated from dirty rags. Observational conclusions are very prone to severe error.

The most obvious example of my point is dreaming. When you are dreaming, you swear by a certain reality. Within the dream, you accept certain "truths" (for example that you are talking to your dead grandmother who is "conscious"). Upon waking, you realize that your 'r' reality was just a dream, and you are now in a different reality where your grandmother is dead and incapable of talking. You realize your talking dead grandmother was just a manifestation of your own thoughts. This is observational science at its worst.

Until someone can propose an absolute definition of "consciousness" that is not based on observation, then everything we say is subjective. But now suppose someone quantifies and defines consciousness in a theoretical, absolute way (i.e. consciousness = 1 proton, 2 neutrons, and 3oz axle grease) then at least there can be a universally accepted analysis.

 

[Fylobatica]

And subjective observation has no way of being verified

We are aware about how biological processes like respiration, digestion, hormone synthesis, etc. work even though they are as well felt at a subjective level. It's about reverse engineering: something (event "X") happens, how did this event take place?
Maybe I'm not explaining very well my point, since English is not my native language. If that's the case, I'm sorry.

The most obvious example of my point is dreaming.

Yet our brain activity shows significant changes when we fall asleep. Science can tell whether a person is dreaming or not observing the brainwaves generated by the posterior cortical zone.
What I'm trying to say that consciousness (= awareness, self-perception) heavily depends on physical patterns (which have also been named as "connectome" and basically reflect what people mistake for a 'soul' or such) that, once disrupted, do not reflect at all our personal identity, memories, feelings. The foundation of human thought lies in the pattern of dynamic interactions shaped by this intricate anatomical connections, it is not something that fell from the sky one day as it is. So consciousness is an epiphenomenon that arises from the interplay of multiple brain areas; I'd say that the most relevant discoveries about this field of science in the next centuries will open up new scenarios about simulation of multiple identities and possibly one day we'll finally feel, thanks to technology, how "being another self" feels, which basically translates in "me feeling your thoughts as if they were mine".
But in the end, again, it's all in our head.

 

[Vox]

Fylo, you're explaining it perfectly and your English is far better than most Americans I know. What you say is absolutely true in the rational world, but I'm sorta wandering off into metaphysical territory (which I admit has no resolution, so I'm not sure why I brought it up except that nothing in life seems to have an answer these days).

I'm proposing sort of a "Matrix" reality. In the movie The Matrix, everyone thinks they are in a tangible world encountering tangible people, but in a larger reality they are actually hooked up to a simulation and their real body/consciousness is lying in a pod. This is sensational scifi, but the metaphor is entirely possible, that what we see around us is an artificial reality, dream or hallucination.

Maybe I'm so far gone that I'm entertaining these bizarre notions, but I guess when you're fixated on the ultimate unknown (death), you start questioning everything ...and finding holes in everything.

I'm not proposing anything as outlandish as The Matrix, but I wonder... is it possible that the essense of consciousness is on some other level, and what we see (biological bodies) are merely hosts, the same way a cell will host a virus. The cell dies, but the virus lives on to infect another.

It scares me to hell that perhaps, just perhaps, "consciousness" is a virus that hops from body to body outlasting them all.

 

[Machonne]

There is no God.

 

[Squidward]

It scares me to hell that perhaps, just perhaps, "consciousness" is a virus that hops from body to body outlasting them all.

Imho, memory maketh the man. If consciousnesses are hopping about bodies it doesn't seem like the memories are carrying over. Outside of the handful of children who dream/remember dying in a previous life, it doesn't seem any of us hold onto any shit associated with a consciousness that's been around the block already. If my consciousness is a virus that moves onto the next vessel, then it becomes that new persons problem. As i see no evidence of, nor could I imagine, my memories, experiences, emotions and other synapses tagging along for the cosmic journey.

I mean, we see that those things can degrade despite remaining technically conscious, as in the case of dementia/Alzheimer's. So they definitely don't seem codependent.

Also, the whole karma and energy things only work if you put reincarnation in the table, considering many humans do horrible things and live their lives happily, without any consequences.

This is the big problem I have with karma/reincarnation. Its like yelling at a dog for shitting in the house a month after they did it. Utterly pointless and cruel.

 

[millefeui]

This is the big problem I have with karma/reincarnation. Its like yelling at a dog for shitting in the house a month after they did it. Utterly pointless and cruel.

It is not that cruel in the big scheme, if you think about it. A "life" or in other words, a reincarnation, is comparable to the blink of an eye, in theory, compared to the eternity of one's soul. That said, while living a particular life, yes, I agree. It is really cruel to be punished for bad things you don't even remember having committed.

Still, think about it. Imagine you were someone really nasty and cruel in your previous incarnation. Perhaps a rapist, murderer, etc. Would you want to live a new incarnation knowing you caused so much pain, did so many terrible things? Or worse, what if you were the victim? While being punished for what you can't remember is cruel, I agree, living with terrible memories wouldn't be that much better, if at all.

Honestly, just give me nothingness. Living is tiring. I just want to not be.

 

[Malice1]

It is not that cruel in the big scheme, if you think about it. A "life" or in other words, a reincarnation, is comparable to the blink of an eye, in theory, compared to the eternity of one's soul. That said, while living a particular life, yes, I agree. It is really cruel to be punished for bad things you don't even remember having committed.

Still, think about it. Imagine you were someone really nasty and cruel in your previous incarnation. Perhaps a rapist, murderer, etc. Would you want to live a new incarnation knowing you caused so much pain, did so many terrible things? Or worse, what if you were the victim? While being punished for what you can't remember is cruel, I agree, living with terrible memories wouldn't be that much better, if at all.

Honestly, just give me nothingness. Living is tiring. I just want to not be.

I think it would be fair if everyone had a choice on whether they want nothingness or something. I find the idea of eternal nothingness to be just as terrifying as eternal life. I'd prefer eternal life with the ability to sleep myself for long periods of time because its not oblivion that i fear its eternal oblivion in which i fear. I dont mind not existing for awhile as long as i get to eventually come back in whatever form that may be.

 

[millefeui]

I think it would be fair if everyone had a choice on whether they want nothingness or something. I find the idea of eternal nothingness to be just as terrifying as eternal life. I'd prefer eternal life with the ability to sleep myself for long periods of time because its not oblivion that i fear its eternal oblivion in which i fear. I dont mind not existing for awhile as long as i get to eventually come back in whatever form that may be.

I agree. Choice would be the ideal, but looking at how dreadful the lives of so many people are, I have to wonder if we get to choose anything.

 

[Squidward]

It is not that cruel in the big scheme, if you think about it. A "life" or in other words, a reincarnation, is comparable to the blink of an eye, in theory, compared to the eternity of one's soul. That said, while living a particular life, yes, I agree. It is really cruel to be punished for bad things you don't even remember having committed.

Still, think about it. Imagine you were someone really nasty and cruel in your previous incarnation. Perhaps a rapist, murderer, etc. Would you want to live a new incarnation knowing you caused so much pain, did so many terrible things? Or worse, what if you were the victim? While being punished for what you can't remember is cruel, I agree, living with terrible memories wouldn't be that much better, if at all.

Honestly, just give me nothingness. Living is tiring. I just want to not be.

Shit, you're completely right, if I had to do it over and over again the cruelest fate would be knowing it. If reincarnation is a thing, I guess cleaning the slate in between lives would be the most "humane" way to do it.

I still stand behind "utterly pointless" in regards to a system of punishment and reward though. If anything I'd see this "consciousness energy" as just some resource or building block being recycled or passed around into new beings. Much like the worldly energies and elements we have an understanding of.

So in regards to "eternity of one's soul," what do I care about the eternity of anything if it's not connected to the experiences and memories of this body? I can only hope to know the world I live in.

I find the idea of eternal nothingness to be just as terrifying as eternal life. I'd prefer eternal life with the ability to sleep myself for long periods of time because its not oblivion that i fear its eternal oblivion in which i fear. I don't mind not existing for awhile as long as i get to eventually come back in whatever form that may be.

Can't quite wrap my head around this one, tbh. What about nothingness is there to fear?

 

[Malice1]

Can't quite wrap my head around this one, tbh. What about nothingness is there to fear?

I cant really explain it. I just dont want it to be nothing. Unfortunately it most likely is just nothing.

 

[FullFat]

Shit, you're completely right, if I had to do it over and over again the cruelest fate would be knowing it. If reincarnation is a thing, I guess cleaning the slate in between lives would be the most "humane" way to do it.

I still stand behind "utterly pointless" in regards to a system of punishment and reward though. If anything I'd see this "consciousness energy" as just some resource or building block being recycled or passed around into new beings. Much like the worldly energies and elements we have an understanding of.

So in regards to "eternity of one's soul," what do I care about the eternity of anything if it's not connected to the experiences and memories of this body? I can only hope to know the world I live in.




Can't quite wrap my head around this one, tbh. What about nothingness is there to fear?

I agree with your thoughts on reincarnation. I had a philosophy professor who made me put the pieces together. She discussed views on the afterlife where your soul is without character or personality; it's basically just a life force, a checkmark in the sentience checkbox and that's it. She asked what the point would be in hoping for such an afterlife. If your spirit/soul/what-have-you has no connection to you or your memories, is it really you anymore? It was during this period of my life where I fully deconverted from Christianity. I was holding onto Deism by a thread when I finally realized how pointless it all was. I found the whole question of whether god exists irrelevant after that. Unless god is both benevolent and willing/able to help you, the practical meaning of the question is pretty nil.

I do understand fearing nothingness though. In some ways, it scares me more than hell. I know it's irrational, but the thought of not existing terrifies me. Ironically, I have abused alcohol and sleeping pills to simulate it before many times. It's just that you know with sleep that you're probably going to wake up. It's death without the commitment, as people like to say.

 

[millefeui]

Shit, you're completely right, if I had to do it over and over again the cruelest fate would be knowing it. If reincarnation is a thing, I guess cleaning the slate in between lives would be the most "humane" way to do it.

I still stand behind "utterly pointless" in regards to a system of punishment and reward though. If anything I'd see this "consciousness energy" as just some resource or building block being recycled or passed around into new beings. Much like the worldly energies and elements we have an understanding of.

So in regards to "eternity of one's soul," what do I care about the eternity of anything if it's not connected to the experiences and memories of this body? I can only hope to know the world I live in.

In theory, the experiences from previous incarnations accumulate. So, the experiences are connected, only not memories. Not in the way we understand the concept of memories, anyways. Some say the phenomenon called Déjà vu is the manifestation of memories of past incarnations, which is why they bring such a weird, almost sad feeling and why we "remember" something that didn't actually happen (in one's current life, anyways).

Back to experiences... Picture them as if they were blue printed in one's soul. In that way, the soul slowly evolves, even if we don't remember the experiences we had. There are actually plenty of "arguments" to support this theory, such as how easily some people learn certain crafts — In theory, once again, the explanation would be that in a previous life, this individual learned this craft and as such, their soul "knows" about it even if they physically don't remember ever practicing such craft (like an art, say... drawing). In short, "talent" would basically mean you had plenty of experiences with what you are talented with in a past life.

Of course, you have to first accept that reincarnation is a thing, which is admittedly not the easiest pill to swallow. For me, it is only something I consider because well, I am crazy. Totally nuts. Between all the things I consider that can or could be real, reincarnation is really, really tame.

Last but not least, my two cents on fear of nothingness: We can't properly comprehend not existing. And it is very common to fear what we can't comprehend, what we don't know how it works. I am not scared of nothingness — In fact, I crave for it. Conversely, reincarnation scares the shit out me and I am not ashamed of admitting it. How could I not be scared of possibly being reincarnated in this hell again?

Then again, as I said, I am not exactly mentally sound.

 

[Asylla]

I find the idea of eternal nothingness to be just as terrifying as eternal life.

I know it's irrational, but the thought of not existing terrifies me.

Eternal nothingness is something that you, as a concept, have already experienced before. That's why I don't fear nothingness anymore. When I consider that I used not to exist, the idea of going back to that state doesn't impress me that much anymore.

 

[FullFat]

In theory, the experiences from previous incarnations accumulate. So, the experiences are connected, only not memories. Not in the way we understand the concept of memories, anyways. Some say the phenomenon called Déjà vu is the manifestation of memories of past incarnations, which is why they bring such a weird, almost sad feeling and why we "remember" something that didn't actually happen (in one's current life, anyways).

Back to experiences... Picture them as if they were blue printed in one's soul. In that way, the soul slowly evolves, even if we don't remember the experiences we had. There are actually plenty of "arguments" to support this theory, such as how easily some people learn certain crafts — In theory, once again, the explanation would be that in a previous life, this individual learned this craft and as such, their soul "knows" about it even if they physically don't remember ever practicing such craft (like an art, say... drawing). In short, "talent" would basically mean you had plenty of experiences with what you are talented with in a past life.

Of course, you have to first accept that reincarnation is a thing, which is admittedly not the easiest pill to swallow. For me, it is only something I consider because well, I am crazy. Totally nuts. Between all the things I consider that can or could be real, reincarnation is really, really tame.

Last but not least, my two cents on fear of nothingness: We can't properly comprehend not existing. And it is very common to fear what we can't comprehend, what we don't know how it works. I am not scared of nothingness — In fact, I crave for it. Conversely, reincarnation scares the shit out me and I am not ashamed of admitting it. How could I not be scared of possibly being reincarnated in this hell again?

Then again, as I said, I am not exactly mentally sound.

I definitely find reincarnation easier to swallow than the bitter pill of genetic determinism, so I'll give you that. I look at my messed up dad and see a lot of myself reflected back at me. I would hope that I'm actually more like my mom, but I would honestly describe her as a victim of life. While my dad and I are the kind of people for whom no possible life could be good, she had a chance, I think. Then she married my dad and had me. The idea that she did her time here and may have a better chance next time is a nice thought.

I'm the opposite of you on the nothingness question. Reincarnation doesn't sound all that bad unless I come back as a dung beetle or something, lol. Nothingness continues to scare me even though I wish for death - yet another contradiction of my unsound mind.

 

[FullFat]

Eternal nothingness is something that you, as a concept, have already experienced before. That's why I don't fear nothingness anymore. When I consider that I used not to exist, the idea of going back to that state doesn't impress me that much anymore.

The difference is that, before, I had not already lived. Reincarnation ideas aside, no recognizable "me" knew what life was. I didn't give something up because I didn't have it yet - not that life is much of a trophy. Death feels like a loss. It's like a fork in the maze in PacMan where you get eaten by the baddies. You can envision yourself going down another path and surviving. That alternative is in your mind.

Of course, all this mental masturbation and anguish becomes a moot point once your brain dies.

 

[millefeui]

I think it is silly to say "you already experienced nonexistence". There are no proofs to support such claim. That is why I never speak in absolutes and I always make sure to reaffirm that my theories are just, well, theories.

I definitely find reincarnation easier to swallow than the bitter pill of genetic determinism, so I'll give you that. I look at my messed up dad and see a lot of myself reflected back at me. I would hope that I'm actually more like my mom, but I would honestly describe her as a victim of life. While my dad and I are the kind of people for whom no possible life could be good, she had a chance, I think. Then she married my dad and had me. The idea that she did her time here and may have a better chance next time is a nice thought.

I'm the opposite of you on the nothingness question. Reincarnation doesn't sound all that bad unless I come back as a dung beetle or something, lol. Nothingness continues to scare me even though I wish for death - yet another contradiction of my unsound mind.

That is fine. I can respect that.

I just think there are just too many ways to be born "wrong", that I would rather not. There are "minor" things like being born ugly (not minor for me, call me vain if you want), being born in some shitty country or things like being born with a terminal disease, blind, or worse. It is a risk I would rather not experience. Not to mention I really don't like how awful humans are (myself included).

 

[FullFat]

I think it is silly to say "you already experienced nonexistence". There are no proofs to support such claim. That is why I never speak in absolutes and I always make sure to reaffirm that my theories are just, well, theories.

That is fine. I can respect that.

I just think there are just too many ways to be born "wrong", that I would rather not. There are "minor" things like being born ugly (not minor for me, call me vain if you want), being born in some shitty country or things like being born with a terminal disease, blind, or worse. It is a risk I would rather not experience. Not to mention I really don't like how awful humans are (myself included).

This is true. The probability of ending up worse off is high once I take into account my privileged lifestyle compared to much of the world. My life could be much more painful than it is. I live in relative comfort.

This is making me think of an article I read in a Scientific American blog: https://blogs.scientificamerican.co...-what-it-feels-like-to-want-to-kill-yourself/

From the link: "Most people who kill themselves actually lived better-than-average lives. Suicide rates are higher in nations with higher standards of living than in less prosperous nations; higher in US states with a better quality of life; higher in societies that endorse individual freedoms; higher in areas with better weather; in areas with seasonal change, they are higher during the warmer seasons; and they're higher among college students that have better grades and parents with higher expectations."

The author, Jesse Bering, also discusses a psychological theory of suicide by Roy Baumeister. Say what you will about his research methods and politics, but man does the guy come up with some juicy theories. I might just open up a thread on that, now that I think about it.

 

[Asylla]

Death feels like a loss. It's like a fork in the maze in PacMan where you get eaten by the baddies. You can envision yourself going down another path and surviving. That alternative is in your mind.

Sure, you can alway envision yourself going down another path and surviving. But one can only play PacMan for so long. Eventually you will either get caught by a ghost or you'll reach the maximum score.

Also, even if the eternal life alternative was possible, wouldn't it be even more terrifying than eternal nothingness?

 

[FullFat]

Sure, you can alway envision yourself going down another path and surviving. But one can only play PacMan for so long. Eventually you will either get caught by a ghost or you'll reach the maximum score.

Also, even if the eternal life alternative was possible, wouldn't it be even more terrifying than eternal nothingness?

Not if the afterlife was Heaven. The sky is the limit on how wonderful it could be. Even the more restricted incarnations the religions have dreamed up sound more than tolerable. If existence weren't painful, I would desire immortality for sure.

 

[great-ape99]

I have an ma and still spent the past 3 years working 2 jobs 7 days a week. I have applied to over 2k places with no response. Every week it is some new emergency, car, have to move, hernia, sciatica pain, tooth out eat. My best friends used the crush that I had on a mutual friend to use me. It seems every step I take I end up being pun8shed with some major calamity most people deal with only once or twice a year. After years of this I'm burnt out. The only God who can exist is one who despises me and wants me dead. Why else the constant emergencies in every aspect of my life just non stop. God wants me to kill myself.

It's karma man, or just a rare random outcome. I don't believe in a God that judges us. You create your own reality.