Fear of the possibility of souls and an invisible spiritual world that could harm and cause pain and suffering

[171S]

This is one of the main things I fear that make me evaluate ctb constantly. I am afraid of the possibility that my physical problems and life problems are a direct reflection of a negative spiritual condition and that I could be trapped in an existence of suffering and regret if I ctb while being in a depressing physical and mental situation.

I've had experiences that lead me to believe there is an invisible conscious energy that connect to humans and that is aware of us and can affect us in different ways. Sometimes its good but a lot of times its creepy. I also think that maybe many "souls" could be living in this sort of invisible grid.

One form of experience is that for a split second I lose control over my body and suddenly end up finding my self staring a clock exactly at a time the digits are all the same or are in pairs, for example eleven eleven, or twelve twelve, and its like some conscious unseen entity suddenly expends energy directed to my brain and causes my neurons to fire in a way I did not intend and instead results in my head and eyes turning to see the clock at that time for no reason. Like there is zero reason to look at the clock at any of those times.

Also most of these times I feel fear and anxiety trigger to some extent, it always leaves me wondering why or how am I staring at the clock now at this time for no reason, so I feel its not a good thing this happens, its a bad thing that started happening out of the blue.

This makes me fear to ctb to then find myself facing a demon or an evil spiritual entity or a band of crazy evil souls attached to my soul and then there would be nothing I could do to escape an even worse form of life.

 

[obliviousatbest]

Stuff like this freaks me out. I want to believe in the complete ceasing of consciousness after death but i have an unexplainable underlying feeling that part of me is like 200 years old and has ctbd in all my past lives, which is why I've always felt so existentially tired, melancholic and consumed by dying. But I'm too tired to break the cycle, if it exists, besides im ginger i dont have a soul.

When I was sectioned, multiple schizophrenics told me on completely separate occasions that they could see four or five 'djinn' around me (the Islamic equivalent of demons) and they are attached to my soul surrounding me with bad energy or something. Never believed it because I dont believe in demons etc but it gives me a bad gut feeling on thinking about it.

 

[blueclover_.]

Stuff like this freaks me out. I want to believe in the complete ceasing of consciousness after death but i have an unexplainable underlying feeling that part of me is like 200 years old and has ctbd in all my past lives, which is why I've always felt so existentially tired, melancholic and consumed by dying. But I'm too tired to break the cycle, if it exists, besides im ginger i dont have a soul.

When I was sectioned, multiple schizophrenics told me on completely separate occasions that they could see four or five 'djinn' around me (the Islamic equivalent of demons) and they are attached to my soul surrounding me with bad energy or something. Never believed it because I dont believe in demons etc but it gives me a bad gut feeling on thinking about it.

Shit... I was already dealing with abrahamic threats of hell, now i have to worry about reincarnation...

Do you live in an Arabic-speaking country? I don't think western schizophrenic patients know that much about islam.

 

[obliviousatbest]

Shit... I was already dealing with abrahamic threats of hell, now i have to worry about reincarnation...

Do you live in an Arabic-speaking country? I don't think western schizophrenic patients know that much about islam.

Reincarnation seems more of a threat than a release. I'm from London, UK. Very diverse culturally with a lot of beliefs coexisting, hence there were a few people from muslim families in hospital.

 

[LoveTakesManyForms]

This is one of the main things I fear that make me evaluate ctb constantly. I am afraid of the possibility that my physical problems and life problems are a direct reflection of a negative spiritual condition and that I could be trapped in an existence of suffering and regret if I ctb while being in a depressing physical and mental situation.

I've had experiences that lead me to believe there is an invisible conscious energy that connect to humans and that is aware of us and can affect us in different ways. Sometimes its good but a lot of times its creepy. I also think that maybe many "souls" could be living in this sort of invisible grid.

One form of experience is that for a split second I lose control over my body and suddenly end up finding my self staring a clock exactly at a time the digits are all the same or are in pairs, for example eleven eleven, or twelve twelve, and its like some conscious unseen entity suddenly expends energy directed to my brain and causes my neurons to fire in a way I did not intend and instead results in my head and eyes turning to see the clock at that time for no reason. Like there is zero reason to look at the clock at any of those times.

Also most of these times I feel fear and anxiety trigger to some extent, it always leaves me wondering why or how am I staring at the clock now at this time for no reason, so I feel its not a good thing this happens, its a bad thing that started happening out of the blue.

This makes me fear to ctb to then find myself facing a demon or an evil spiritual entity or a band of crazy evil souls attached to my soul and then there would be nothing I could do to escape an even worse form of life.

I can't help but question the utility of such thinking. It doesn't bring any peace, and it's anyone's guess as to what's on the other side of the veil.
Therefore we might as well just buy into ideas which make us feel peaceful.
So I'll give you my take. I wonder what you'll think of it (taken from another thread where I posted it):

I don't want to live forever in any kind of afterlife; spending eternity doing anything doesn't gel well with me, be it in a so-called heaven or hell.
1) Without contrast such places could not exist; there cannot be pleasure without pain or vice versa. How could good be good without bad to define it?
2) I can't bring myself to believe in a place as horrible as Hell, if such a place exists then no person should ever have to go there, regardless of the mistakes they made here. After all, any mistakes they made were by design, for the uncontrollable influences of this world led them to those mistakes.

It smacks of a control mechanism invented by human beings; somebody thought up the worst place imaginable to threaten people with when their behaviour doesn't suit an agenda, harkening back to the ancient human struggle for power and control over others.
It seems far too earthly a concept to truly exist in the afterlife- too fearful and horrendous.
Besides, some people live in Hell here. If they die and go to Hell in the next world, then it's a no-win situation, and what would be the point of that?
No Creator worth a damn would create such a predicament for any being.

So for me the only solution that works is non-existence. It seems a scary thing now, but it's not something that we'll be aware of on the other side.
Therefore the problem lies in the worrying about it in this life.
If we simply embrace it now without resistance, or cease thinking about it, once we're there we won't know we're gone. This is how we avoid suffering. It is the perfect ending to existence.
After all, death is inevitable anyway, whether or not it is caused by one's own hand. A life lived in fear of it is a life poorly spent.

Does this help at all? This realisation brought me peace after many years of fear and despair surrounding Death.

 

[mlha]

One form of experience is that for a split second I lose control over my body and suddenly end up finding my self staring a clock exactly at a time the digits are all the same or are in pairs

Have you think about that it's your mind which makes something special out of an ordinary thing? And because you make it special, you take mental notes of such events and maintain the specialty this way. The feeling of loss of control could be induced by anticipation of looking around/at a clock. I mean, repeating digits are an ordinary thing.

I had a phase when I saw singular eyes at various places, in music videos, in TV and at one point I actually winced. But in the end they're still there and there is a context why they are there. In case of repeating digits on a clock the context is simple, it's a valid state of a clock.

 

[supermario]

I've thought a lot about this as well. Ultimately I realized it doesn't matter. If I decide to ctb, it's because life is no longer bearable on earth and I've tried everything within my power to fix it. Given this scenario, even if there is afterlife and my problems persist, how is that different than sticking around on earth, die naturally, only to face the same fate in the afterlife?

 

[LoveTakesManyForms]

I've thought a lot about this as well. Ultimately I realized it doesn't matter. If I decide to ctb, it's because life is no longer bearable on earth and I've tried everything within my power to fix it. Given this scenario, even if there is afterlife and my problems persist, how is that different than sticking around on earth, die naturally, only to face the same fate in the afterlife?

I've heard people say that suicide causes your soul to go to a bad place/stay trapped in the state it was in before death, due to the rejection of life itself.

Since we don't know what happens when we die we might as well choose the best option to believe in.
Who would sooner buy into a world that causes a person such agony that they obliterate themselves to escape, then continues the same in the next life because they did so, over the possibility of peace for all, regardless of race, religion, or cause of death?

If anything goes, and it does, as there is no proof regarding what happens after death, why torture oneself over horrifying possibilities?
If a person's coping capability has been exceeded, then it has been exceeded, so even if they are punished for it (which seems unbelievably cruel), it makes little difference.
Finally, some people kill themselves as they are a threat to others. In this case their actions are extremely noble, in my opinion. Their death should be rewarded, not punished.

I think worrying about such notions is existential despair manifesting in another way. The mind constructing more reasons not to die, when the joy of living is no longer extant or compelling enough.

 

[VoidDesirer22]

We cease to be. Our imaginations come up with these fears as an extention of our biological life instinct. Our imaginations are inseparable from our brain and consciousness.

I refuse to believe that if my brain has totally decayed into dust, that I am experiencing any more than when I am asleep -- infact, I would be experiencing a whole lot less, as dreams require the firing of neurons to exist.

How the fu*k can neurons fire if they are dust? There is no electricity there, or the required replenishment of glucose. We need the energy in order for the sodium-potassium pump in the brain to allow the balance of Na+ and K+ inside and outside brain cells so that action potentials can occur, transferring a signal from one neuron to roughly 20,000 others, among all processes in our brains. I have studied neuroscience at university just so I can be fully convinced that all our behaviours and thoughts have a direct link to a brain process. And they can.

We know that humans can tell lies to get what they want. If a caveman tells another caveman that the spiritual boogey man told him that if he doesn't give him his share of beetles, then he will suffer eternally after he dies, then it is simple manipulation tactics.

When we die our brain dies. You will be at peace.

 

[Bot]

im 80% sure that everyone who dies enters the spiritual realm where we are gods and all powerful, just lookup near death experiences on YouTube, there are too many people who claim exactly the same (heavenlike) spiritual realm and no hell, they all sound so convinced that its hard for me to believe they are making it up, neither way you could watch them each day and you might give up your fears since the longer you watch the videos, the more you think its real what they claim i think, still im convinced they are speaking the truth.. ive also seen spirits and tbh they were looking/feeling 100% real

 

[supermario]

We cease to be. Our imaginations come up with these fears as an extention of our biological life instinct. Our imaginations are inseparable from our brain and consciousness.

I refuse to believe that if my brain has totally decayed into dust, that I am experiencing any more than when I am asleep -- infact, I would be experiencing a whole lot less, as dreams require the firing of neurons to exist.

How the fu*k can neurons fire if they are dust? There is no electricity there, or the required replenishment of glucose. We need the energy in order for the sodium-potassium pump in the brain to allow the balance of Na+ and K+ inside and outside brain cells so that action potentials can occur, transferring a signal from one neuron to roughly 20,000 others, among all processes in our brains. I have studied neuroscience at university just so I can be fully convinced that all our behaviours and thoughts have a direct link to a brain process. And they can.

We know that humans can tell lies to get what they want. If a caveman tells another caveman that the spiritual boogey man told him that if he doesn't give him his share of beetles, then he will suffer eternally after he dies, then it is simple manipulation tactics.

When we die our brain dies. You will be at peace.

I don't necessarily agree with this description. Yes it's rooted in science, but only what we know so far scientifically. Just like science didn't always know the existence of atoms.

I've heard some first person accounts of really incredible stories of their loved ones communicating after death to believe there is something after death.

 

[mlha]

im 80% sure that everyone who dies enters the spiritual realm where we are gods and all powerful, just lookup near death experiences on YouTube, there are too many people who claim exactly the same (heavenlike) spiritual realm and no hell, they all sound so convinced that its hard for me to believe they are making it up, neither way you could watch them each day and you might give up your fears since the longer you watch the videos, the more you think its real what they claim i think, still im convinced they are speaking the truth.. ive also seen spirits and tbh they were looking/feeling 100% real

NDE could easily be just a dream-like state (and in case of a death a dream-like state followed by nothingness), and the content of the dream can easily be what you expect. This would explain all the heavens, out-of-body experiences, etc., because you've already heard about them. Just one big hallucination at the end, which includes all senses and can include various feelings.

 

[LoveTakesManyForms]

NDE could easily be just a dream-like state (and in case of a death a dream-like state followed by nothingness), and the content of the dream can easily be what you expect. This would explain all the heavens, out-of-body experiences, etc., because you've already heard about them. Just one big hallucination at the end, which includes all senses and can include various feelings.

Not only that, but some claim to see nothing during this time.

Near death experiences are NEAR death, not actual death.
Nobody has come back from actual death i.e. where all brain activity ceases.

 

[FuneralCry]

I do not believe in any afterlife/reincarnation or any form of life after this. It is all fictional concepts. The thing that I fear is this life. In life there is unlimited potential for suffering, there is no limit as to how bad things can get. I believe when we lose consciousness that is it for us, death is true peace.

 

[171S]

Its also possible that there is a spirit world that interacts with us but we don't actually get to live there, when we die any connection to the spirit world breaks because we no longer function and die.