Facts don't care about your feelings

[blueclover_.]

First of all, i'm a left-leaning centrist who doesn't have any political agenda by making this thread. I don't idiolize or demonize Ben Shapiro for this quote, i simply used it because it represents my conclusion perfectly. If you agree or disagree, feel free to write your comment below so that we can have a polite and fruitful discussion regarding this matter.

A fact is an objective truth with recorded evidences supporting its claim. 1+1=2, that is a fact because (here is the evidence) '2' is a number that humans use to symbolize the existence of a group which contains both the copy of an object and the object itself.

Agreement/disagreement/confusion/etc., those are logical thoughts. Even though one may speak with strong emotions accompanying its messages, the only things that should be notable in discussions and debates are their words and actions—not their personal emotions. If you speak about how people in X region are starving, the focus should not be on your anger, but it should be on your messages about the starving people. Spoken thoughts are the only thing that should be noted during debates.

Anger/sadness/fear/etc., those are emotions. Emotions are subjective as they are a survival tactic to prevent you from being killed off by nature which stems from different kinds of threats from different kinds of environments. Fear has the purpose of getting you to safety, but even then some people are scared by non-harmful things hence why phobias even existed in the first place. We can not predict how a person's emotions are going to influence their actions, therefore emotions should not be a worthwhile notion in debates because they are totally random, unpredictable, and unprovable due to its subjectiveness to each individual. If a person is speaking about how people from X region are starving with angry tones in their voice, then we should not focus on their anger because other people might not even feel angry about that—they might feel sadness, fear, anxiety, etc. but not anger like the person. We should focus on their messages instead, with all of the supporting proveable datas and logical conclusions, as those are the only way to convey the purest truth.

Thoughts (Logical conclusions) VS Feelings (Emotional Responses) = Objectiveness VS Subjectiveness.

The truth is objective. A subjective truth may not even be a 'truth' to another subject's mind. That is why we should always choose logic instead of emotions because with logic, we all have the same evidences to prove every claim there is about a particular matter. We can not do that with emotions because everyone has different triggers for different types of emotions and humans will never emotionally unite as it will only defeat the evolutionary purpose of emotions in the first place—to react to different kinds of threat for different kinds of people.

Another simple example. Can i punch you in the face for no reason at all other than just because i feel like it? The cause/s of my hypothetical hate of you is yet unknown, so nobody can justify my action of punching you before giving a clear, logical explanation of it. Only by a logical argument then i could be justified of punching another person. My feelings should not justify my action of punching someone because feelings are subjective and unique to every individual.

TL;DR: Truths are universally objective, feelings are subjective to every individual. Everyone can work together to gather the most concrete objective truth, but not everyone can work together to gather the most concrete subjective emotion because it is subjective to every subject/individual out there in the world. That is why truth can only be gained through logic and why our personal feelings don't matter in that regard.

Thank you for reading and have a nice day.

 

[just_wanna_die]

A good post. To expand on that...

"Your subconscious is like a computer—more complex a computer than men can build—and its main function is the integration of your ideas. Who programs it? Your conscious mind. If you default, if you don't reach any firm convictions, your subconscious is programmed by chance—and you deliver yourself into the power of ideas you do not know you have accepted. But one way or the other, your computer gives you print-outs, daily and hourly, in the form of emotions—which are lightning-like estimates of the things around you, calculated according to your values.

An emotion is an automatic response, an automatic effect of man's value premises. An effect, not a cause.

An emotion as such tells you nothing about reality, beyond the fact that something makes you feel something.

Just as the pleasure-pain mechanism of man's body is an automatic indicator of his body's welfare or injury, a barometer of its basic alternative, life or death—so the emotional mechanism of man's consciousness is geared to perform the same function, as a barometer that registers the same alternative by means of two basic emotions: joy or suffering. Emotions are the automatic results of man's value judgments integrated by his subconscious; emotions are estimates of that which furthers man's values or threatens them, that which is for him or against him—lightning calculators giving him the sum of his profit or loss.

But while the standard of value operating the physical pleasure-pain mechanism of man's body is automatic and innate, determined by the nature of his body—the standard of value operating his emotional mechanism, is not. Since man has no automatic knowledge, he can have no automatic values; since he has no innate ideas, he can have no innate value judgments.

Man is born with an emotional mechanism, just as he is born with a cognitive mechanism; but, at birth, both are "tabula rasa." [a blank slate] It is man's cognitive faculty, his mind, that determines the content of both. Man's emotional mechanism is like an electronic computer, which his mind has to program—and the programming consists of the values his mind chooses.

But since the work of man's mind is not automatic, his values, like all his premises, are the product either of his thinking or of his evasions: man chooses his values by a conscious process of thought—or accepts them by default, by subconscious associations, on faith, on someone's authority, by some form of social osmosis or blind imitation. Emotions are produced by man's premises, held consciously or subconsciously, explicitly or implicitly.

~Ayn Rand, Objectivist author (1905-1982)

 

[blueclover_.]

A good post. To expand on that...

"Your subconscious is like a computer—more complex a computer than men can build—and its main function is the integration of your ideas. Who programs it? Your conscious mind. If you default, if you don't reach any firm convictions, your subconscious is programmed by chance—and you deliver yourself into the power of ideas you do not know you have accepted. But one way or the other, your computer gives you print-outs, daily and hourly, in the form of emotions—which are lightning-like estimates of the things around you, calculated according to your values.

An emotion is an automatic response, an automatic effect of man's value premises. An effect, not a cause.

An emotion as such tells you nothing about reality, beyond the fact that something makes you feel something.

Just as the pleasure-pain mechanism of man's body is an automatic indicator of his body's welfare or injury, a barometer of its basic alternative, life or death—so the emotional mechanism of man's consciousness is geared to perform the same function, as a barometer that registers the same alternative by means of two basic emotions: joy or suffering. Emotions are the automatic results of man's value judgments integrated by his subconscious; emotions are estimates of that which furthers man's values or threatens them, that which is for him or against him—lightning calculators giving him the sum of his profit or loss.

But while the standard of value operating the physical pleasure-pain mechanism of man's body is automatic and innate, determined by the nature of his body—the standard of value operating his emotional mechanism, is not. Since man has no automatic knowledge, he can have no automatic values; since he has no innate ideas, he can have no innate value judgments.

Man is born with an emotional mechanism, just as he is born with a cognitive mechanism; but, at birth, both are "tabula rasa." [a blank slate] It is man's cognitive faculty, his mind, that determines the content of both. Man's emotional mechanism is like an electronic computer, which his mind has to program—and the programming consists of the values his mind chooses.

But since the work of man's mind is not automatic, his values, like all his premises, are the product either of his thinking or of his evasions: man chooses his values by a conscious process of thought—or accepts them by default, by subconscious associations, on faith, on someone's authority, by some form of social osmosis or blind imitation. Emotions are produced by man's premises, held consciously or subconsciously, explicitly or implicitly.

~Ayn Rand, Objectivist author (1905-1982)

Love it! Thank you for your input into the discussion, i would surely look up the book that you referenced!

 

[gigacel123]

It's true. The truth is something people never want to accept.

Like if anything remotely negative is said, people need to compensate with endless platitudes from the disney and hollywood movies they consumed since birth.

If I said looks determine how people treat you and where they position you on the social ladder, people will get angry. But it's true. They don't want to admit how shallow and vapid humanity is.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Good thing my feelings don't care about facts.

 

[blueclover_.]

Good thing my feelings don't care about facts.

Well then, good for you Sir/Madam. Just know that mindset would lower your chances of survival... but we're on a suicide forum. So i guess that works :D

It's true. The truth is something people never want to accept.

Like if anything remotely negative is said, people need to compensate with endless platitudes from the disney and hollywood movies they consumed since birth.

If I said looks determine how people treat you and where they position you on the social ladder, people will get angry. But it's true. They don't want to admit how shallow and vapid humanity is.

Very true. People have to accept that reality is cruel and unjust in order to actually start making changes.

 

[waitingforrest]

Well put. It's just as humans, we mix up emotions and facts up so easily. Sometimes the truth is so harsh we rather lie to ourselves.