Everyone will help you live and suffer, but why does no one help you die and no longer suffer?

[Taylor]

Seriously what is so wrong with going to a clinic and saying "Hey, I'm suffering, and would like to go now." Why is this so condemned for humans? We're mammals, just like our pets, and putting them down for something as simple as arthritis is like getting a car wash on Tuesday. Nothing. Normal. People even commend you for that, like "Oh, good for you. You did the right thing. They were in pain, and now they're not." Lol. Why the hell are we not permitted to do the same? What's the difference? Why are we forced to suffer indefinitely, until we eventually die from that suffering. It's just wrong. I was having a good time, and now I'm not. Simple as that. Who are you to tell me I don't have that right??

I get that yeah, people are still going to do it. But I find it ridiculous that it's illegal in the first place, and people have to resort to violent, inhumane methods, or risk going to prison by ordering illegal drugs online. I just don't understand why you can't just go somewhere and get it done, as simply as getting a haircut or something.

 

[Miss clefable]

Because most humans are evil and twisted and selfish

 

[Taylor]

Because most humans are evil and twisted and selfish

I've come to realize that myself...

 

[Hunter]

Great question…

I guess there's not one simple answer for this, but I can give a crack at it. For one, I think people generally value human life far above non-human life. Suicide is also seen as an unnatural way to die because it goes against our biological instincts to survive. In that sense, it is unnatural - however the extent to which we are socialized to believe that is debatable. As you have pointed out, we currently are socialized to believe that it's OK to put animals down... but more recently we are allowing people who are terminally ill to die with dignity. That suggests that people can be malleable in their beliefs towards euthanasia.

Some of the influences that are anti-choice can be traced to culture, religion, conservatism, political beliefs,… The reasons are simply too complex and varied. If we want to look simply at Western beliefs towards suicide, there is hardly any conversation about quality-of-life or suffering... hardly any conversation about the underlying mechanisms driving up rates like poverty, income inequality, healthcare systems, increasing isolation in a changing modern world etc. The field of suicide prevention is literally limited to a couple of rudimentary tools (police, hospitalizations). We also have laws in place that essentially criminalize suicide…so supporting someone in their decision could land people in hot water legally because it's seen as unethical to not "save" the person, thereby maintaining social pressure against suicide.

Perhaps as time goes on and the suicide rate continues to increase… People may start to consider having more open conversations about legalizing suicide, or at the very least making systemic changes so survival in today's world isn't so difficult.

At the very least, the whole thing shows you just how subjective peoples morals standards really are. So you can die, but *only* if you have stage four cancer and you live in a certain area...But you *can't* die if you're an able-bodied young adult who is been clinically depressed their whole life. If you can die with a nurse by your side and family/friends around you, that's considered dignified and acceptable. But if you die by your own hand in a hotel room that would be tragic and unacceptable. You're "supposed to" die a slow, painful, "natural" death by illness and old age because that's "God's will".... But you'll "go to hell" if you end your own pain after a whole life of undeserved suffering and trauma.

The whole thing just goes to show you how arbitrary ethics around death can be. And yes, it's really frustrating.

 

[TheCrow]

Seriously what is so wrong with going to a clinic and saying "Hey, I'm suffering, and would like to go now." Why is this so condemned for humans? We're mammals, just like our pets, and putting them down for something as simple as arthritis is like getting a car wash on Tuesday. Nothing. Normal. People even commend you for that, like "Oh, good for you. You did the right thing. They were in pain, and now they're not." Lol. Why the hell are we not permitted to do the same? What's the difference? Why are we forced to suffer indefinitely, until we eventually die from that suffering. It's just wrong. I was having a good time, and now I'm not. Simple as that. Who are you to tell me I don't have that right??

I get that yeah, people are still going to do it. But I find it ridiculous that it's illegal in the first place, and people have to resort to violent, inhumane methods, or risk going to prison by ordering illegal drugs online. I just don't understand why you can't just go somewhere and get it done, as simply as getting a haircut or something.

THANK YOU! My belief exactly.

 

[Taylor]

Great question…

I guess there's not one simple answer for this, but I can give a crack at it. For one, I think people generally value human life far above non-human life. Suicide is also seen as an unnatural way to die because it goes against our biological instincts to survive. In that sense, it is unnatural - however the extent to which we are socialized to believe that is debatable. As you have pointed out, we currently are socialized to believe that it's OK to put animals down... but more recently we are allowing people who are terminally ill to die with dignity. That suggests that people can be malleable in their beliefs towards euthanasia.

Some of the influences that are anti-choice can be traced to culture, religion, conservatism, political beliefs,… The reasons are simply too complex and varied. If we want to look simply at Western beliefs towards suicide, there is hardly any conversation about quality-of-life or suffering... hardly any conversation about the underlying mechanisms driving up rates like poverty, income inequality, healthcare systems, increasing isolation in a changing modern world etc. The field of suicide prevention is literally limited to a couple of rudimentary tools (police, hospitalizations). We also have laws in place that essentially criminalize suicide…so supporting someone in their decision could land people in hot water legally because it's seen as unethical to not "save" the person, thereby maintaining social pressure against suicide.

Perhaps as time goes on and the suicide rate continues to increase… People may start to consider having more open conversations about legalizing suicide, or at the very least making systemic changes so survival in today's world isn't so difficult.

At the very least, the whole thing shows you just how subjective peoples morals standards really are. So you can die, but *only* if you have stage four cancer and you live in a certain area...But you *can't* die if you're an able-bodied young adult who is been clinically depressed their whole life. If you can die with a nurse by your side and family/friends around you, that's considered dignified and acceptable. But if you die by your own hand in a hotel room that would be tragic and unacceptable. You're "supposed to" die a slow, painful, "natural" death by illness and old age because that's "God's will".... But you'll "go to hell" if you end your own pain after a whole life of undeserved suffering and trauma.

The whole thing just goes to show you how arbitrary ethics around death can be. And yes, it's really frustrating.

Wow, great answer. I was not expecting something so in depth and thought given!

I agree that socialization is a huge part of it. Just look at how criminalized people's perception of marijuana was, say from the 1970s, compared to now, and all of the false teachings and campaigns to keep kids and young adults away from it. Now it is viewed as medicinal by most, and kids are given edibles to alleviate seizures. Just another example of how you mentioned people's beliefs are definitely maluable to topics that were originally taboo or perceived as negative in general.

I love what you mentioned about living your whole life and suffering until the very end because that's "God's will", and ending that pain prematurely "sends you to hell". I laugh at how contradicting that sounds. I consider myself as a Christian, but at the same have a very relaxed and "real" view on life. I agree when most say that life is truly a gift and should be cherished, but I think that the duration that you cherish it, should be up to you. (It's your life isn't it?). At some point this "gift" is capable of becoming a living nightmare, since we as humans are naturally susceptible to injury, pain, disease, illness and death.

My general consensus is this: Hey you're here, awesome! Enjoy this gift as much as you possibly can, and enjoy every moment you can. But when that suffering begins to outweigh that joy, it's up to you what you want to do at that point. This life was given to you, to do whatever you so choose with. We as humans were given free will. If it just so happens that you can no longer take the pain of whatever is inevitably ailing you, then you can end it. There's no shame in that, and should be respected. If "God" sends me to "Hell" for that, well that's not the God I'd like to worship anyway.

If anything, I feel that having the option of a painless suicide would be reassuring to many, if not reinforce their will to live and continue fighting whatever battle they may be fighting, knowing they have that peace of mind if they so choose.

 

[Hunter]

Wow, great answer. I was not expecting something so in depth and thought given!

I agree that socialization is a huge part of it. Just look at how criminalized people's perception of marijuana was, say from the 1970s, compared to now, and all of the false teachings and campaigns to keep kids and young adults away from it. Now it is viewed as medicinal by most, and kids are given edibles to alleviate seizures. Just another example of how you mentioned people's beliefs are definitely maluable to topics that were originally taboo or perceived as negative in general.

I love what you mentioned about living your whole life and suffering until the very end because that's "God's will", and ending that pain prematurely "sends you to hell". I laugh at how contradicting that sounds. I consider myself as a Christian, but at the same have a very relaxed and "real" view on life. I agree when most say that life is truly a gift and should be cherished, but I think that the duration that you cherish it, should be up to you. (It's your life isn't it?). At some point this "gift" is capable of becoming a living nightmare, since we as humans are naturally susceptible to injury, pain, disease, illness and death.

My general consensus is this: Hey you're here, awesome! Enjoy this gift as much as you possibly can, and enjoy every moment you can. But when that suffering begins to outweigh that joy, it's up to you what you want to do at that point. This life was given to you, to do whatever you so choose with. We as humans were given free will. If it just so happens that you can no longer take the pain of whatever is inevitably ailing you, then you can end it. There's no shame in that, and should be respected. If "God" sends me to "Hell" for that, well that's not the God I'd like to worship anyway.

If anything, I feel that having the option of a painless suicide would be reassuring to many, if not reinforce their will to live and continue fighting whatever battling they may be fighting, knowing they have that peace of mind if they so choose.

Don't take this the wrong way, but you might be the most humane Christian I've ever met when it comes to the topic of death. Kudos to you. Once you realize that the only rules in this life are the ones that you choose for yourself, then you can make your own decision about what to do.

 

[Taylor]

Don't take this the wrong way, but you might be the most humane Christian I've ever met when it comes to the topic of death. Kudos to you. Once you realize that the only rules in this life are the ones that you choose for yourself, then you can make your own decision about what to do.

Not at all man, that's actually a huge compliment. Thank you!

 

[JustLosingMyself]

At the root of the ban of suicide is the state and Catholic church claiming a monopoly on (lethal) violence against its citizens (i.e. you cannot escape punishment by committing suicide. Also too many slaves/serfs/poor people were escaping to a better existence in paradise by committing suicide and thus endangering the economy)
Everything else flows from that

 

[Empty Smile]

Without people, the corrupt government can't take your money. Without money, the corrupt government can't live the easy life.

That's why the government condemns suicide.

 

[NotWorthLiving]

I would say cause they're selfish bastards that just want the money you give them from living. Is that too harsh?

 

[Alysia]

Indeed I find that denying anyone's right to die is a very serious offense. In fact, how can one really assert that forcibly denying someone's right to live (killing someone) is really any worse than forcibly denying someone's right to die (restricting access to reliable, peaceful and humane methods, locking someone up in a psychiatric hospital)? Both infringe on the most fundamental rights of a human being. Denying someone's right to die is forced suffering which you could really call torture almost.

 

[Jodes]

It's selfish and a waste of life. That's about it. But it is about as easy as getting a haircut. You just have to do it yourself.

 

[Vegrau]

Simple. Misery want company. Other's life doesnt concern them at all. They will only help you live. They dont care whether you suffer or not

 

[TAW122]

@Hunter
This is a really thoroughly written response. It makes a lot of sense. Another thing to add to your post is that in the eyes of government (not society, religion itself) is that all people in a particular country are valuable assets that they can use to keep the system running. Threads made a good thread about the costs of a suicide economically.

@Alysia
Yes, this is a fundamental hypocrisy of humanity, that they allow the right to live to thrive while denying the right to die. Also, religious influences over the times are responsible for this hypocrisy. They tout that one has the right to live (even goes as far to impose life without consent) but not the right to die. It's really frustrating.