Discussion Every single religion condemns suicide. Coincidence?

[passer-by]

Don't you think there's something fishy about it? Some of them go into gruesome details of what is going to be happening to you while you're damned in hell for eternity. Some are putting it on a same level as murder. It doesn't really seem as a fair comparison to me.

I think I read Buddhism doesn't judge it too harshly as long as you don't shed a blood, therefore acts as VSED or hanging were allowed for very sick and old. But the different schools' views differ even there.

Ultimately it looks we could unite all of the known religions on this unanimously.

Which makes perfect sense, if their sole purpose is to succumb people to their authority and keep the show going.

That's just my opinion.

I'm naturally scared of the unknown, as no-one who succeded has come back to tell the story and even NDE experiences are very unreliable, since those might be subjected to the individual's own mind filters and beliefs.

I just have a strong inner feeling it's going to be okay and I wish to stick to that

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[sharpiemarker]

I think it stems from an instinct to preserve the "herd" of our own, hence make it a unforgivable thing to kill yourself?

 

[SVEN]

I guess (I'm no expert on religion) that a religion or faith which didn't envisage an afterlife of some sort would just be a philosophy. So they all emphasize living well in the present life. And most humans respond to a stick and carrot approach. The stick for religions is if you do bad things (define bad as you wish) in this life you'll get punished in the next; the carrot is if you do good stuff in this life you'll get your reward in the next.

 

[KillingPain267]

Ehh, I can't speak for other religions than Christianity and ancient Judaism, but the texts of the Old and New Testaments are quite silent on the topic. In fact the Old Testament mentions Saul committing seppuku because he would else face torture and shame before losing the war. It also mentions Samson committing suicide and taking down his enemies at the same time. Both Samson and Saul are described as being, albeit problematic, but saints who earned resurrection. The most you get in the New Testament is abstaining from dying early being profitable as a way to be able to do more good for others. Otherwise, Paul and other apostles were glad to die early and be with the Lord. The texts definitely say nothing about suicide earning a specially harsh afterlife. Arthur Schopenhauer also wondered why suicide is so strongly and explicitly condemned by modern churches when their Bible texts are so silent about it. Also, by far most atheists believe suicide to be wrong or tragic, some even accepting that forcibly hospitalizing suicidal people is okay, like the law says, and yet they certainly are not being against suicide because they want to "control the herd". So it's more complex than what you said.

 

[passer-by]

I think it stems from an instinct to preserve the "herd" of our own, hence make it a unforgivable thing to kill yourself?

Yeah the "herd" theory makes a lot of sense to me, I have only recently stumbled upon that. Hell even my first instinct to someone expressing suicidal thoughts is to try to change their mind. At this point is more of just an empathy though, I can feel their despair and I know that ctb is simply their last resort just as mine is. Getting more loose on that front now. I just wish they do what's best for them now, putting their free will to use.

 

[Gustav Hartmann]

The owners of slaves and serfs invented such religious rules in order to protect their proprety. Natural peoples, hunters and gathers had quite different practices. If someone becomes a burden to the comunity because he was ill or old he was expected to kill himself. I guess sometimes he was forced a little.

My avatar, shows Ixtab the Maya goddess of suicide by hanging. Playing the role of a psychopomp, she would accompany such suicides to heaven.

 

[pollux]

I imagine that religions with good afterlives would in general condemn suicide; they wouldn't get very far if everyone that adhered to their faith killed themselves...

 

[passer-by]

The owners of slaves and serfs invented such religious rules in order to protect their proprety. Natural peoples, hunters and gathers had quite different practices. If someone becomes a burden to the comunity because he was ill or old he was expected to kill himself. I guess sometimes he was forced a little.

My avatar, shows Ixtab the Maya goddess of suicide by hanging. Playing the role of a psychopomp, she would accompany such suicides to heaven.

Damn thank you, gonna read on Ixtab more. This made me more hopeful. As much as I try to rely on my own instincts, it is still a scary thought for me, being punished for my ultimate choice.
Yeah the Natural people's approach is another extreme I'd say, but it makes sense regarding the natural selection law. I just feel we're more than this. In both regards.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

Religion is made by humans and most humans condemn suicide hence the religions will condemn suicide as well

 

[Privateer2368]

Don't you think there's something fishy about it? Some of them go into gruesome details of what is going to be happening to you while you're damned in hell for eternity. Some are putting it on a same level as murder. It doesn't really seem as a fair comparison to me.

I think I read Buddhism doesn't judge it too harshly as long as you don't shed a blood, therefore acts as VSED or hanging were allowed for very sick and old. But the different schools' views differ even there.

Ultimately it looks we could unite all of the known religions on this unanimously.

Which makes perfect sense, if their sole purpose is to succumb people to their authority and keep the show going.

That's just my opinion.

I'm naturally scared of the unknown, as no-one who succeded has come back to tell the story and even NDE experiences are very unreliable, since those might be subjected to the individual's own mind filters and beliefs.

I just have a strong inner feeling it's going to be okay and I wish to stick to that

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm guessing your knowledge of religions is primarily limited to the Abrahamic ones?

Yeah, they're a very bad sample by which to judge all religions.

Not all religions are particularly anti-suicide. Not all religions have any overall authority or power structure.

 

[CantDoIt]

In Christianity, I heard that suicides were punished in the afterlife just as sort of a tool for the rich. Essentially, peasants had to toil the fields but would be rewarded in heaven. If they killed themselves early to get to heaven, there would be no one to toil the fields.

 

[Sunghoon]

I hate religion I wish it never existed or I wish my family didn't have a religion Bc now I'm forced to follow their silly beliefs. When I attempted my dad said I would've went to hell and that was the only thing they were worried about Bc apparently God would judge my parents if I killed myself. Fuck religion

 

[KillingPain267]

In Christianity, I heard that suicides were punished in the afterlife just as sort of a tool for the rich. Essentially, peasants had to toil the fields but would be rewarded in heaven. If they killed themselves early to get to heaven, there would be no one to toil the fields.

Yeah, it's not even in the biblical texts themselves, certainly feudalism is not taught by scripture and the word peasant never appears. The church and priests only spoke Latin to keep folks in darkness and the first Bible translations in local languages were condemned and the translators burned at the stake. Feudalism ended when people could hear the Bible read in their own languages.

I hate religion I wish it never existed or I wish my family didn't have a religion Bc now I'm forced to follow their silly beliefs. When I attempted my dad said I would've went to hell and that was the only thing they were worried about Bc apparently God would judge my parents if I killed myself. Fuck religion

My parents are not religious even though I am, and yet they still guilt trip me into not kms.

 

[daley]

I recall reading there were early christian sects where suicide was frequent and viewed positively.
(Perhaps as a way to get more quickly into heaven),

 

[landslide2]

Religion tells us to endure the suffering, because you will be rewarded in the afterlife. Giving people a coping mechanism.
In a way religion thrives on suffering, adding and keeping more followers who have no way of obtaining equity, fairness, justice
or healing from physical/mental illnesses in this life.

 

[Forever Sleep]

If there are even Gods, how can we be sure that the religious texts we read now best represent their wishes? For example, the Christian gospels were written 40 to 65 years after Christ died. I imagine a lot could be altered, added and subtracted in that time.

Also bear in mind the type of people that most likely created the foundations for a lot of orthodox religions. They could read and write so presumably- they were of the ruling classes. They obviously don't want their peasant labour force killing themselves en masse. Hell's a good deterrent.

Sometimes I wonder. Like- it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone who wants to be devout. Is a faithful servant of whatever faith but- is struggling terribly in life. Wants it to end. Prays to God for it to end but it doesn't. What if they ask God directly? Will you be pissed if I do it myself? The religious texts can be a bit hazy. Like others have mentioned, suicide doesn't seem to be outright condemned in the bible. Why doesn't God answer them? If God loves us so much- why wouldn't they try to intervene in an action that could send our soul to hell? Why has it all got to be so cryptic? I'm hoping- because there is no God. Surely, that's prefarable to one who toys with you, ignores you, condemns you.

 

[Demian]

Samson asked God for the strength to push over the pillars and thus die. So Samson committed suicide, and he is on the list of heroes of the faith in the Bible.

I'm not encouraging suicide. Samson's case was too critical. His enemies pierced his two eyes, chained him up and mocked him every day.

 

[passer-by]

If there are even Gods, how can we be sure that the religious texts we read now best represent their wishes? For example, the Christian gospels were written 40 to 65 years after Christ died. I imagine a lot could be altered, added and subtracted in that time.

Also bear in mind the type of people that most likely created the foundations for a lot of orthodox religions. They could read and write so presumably- they were of the ruling classes. They obviously don't want their peasant labour force killing themselves en masse. Hell's a good deterrent.

Sometimes I wonder. Like- it doesn't seem unreasonable to me that someone who wants to be devout. Is a faithful servant of whatever faith but- is struggling terribly in life. Wants it to end. Prays to God for it to end but it doesn't. What if they ask God directly? Will you be pissed if I do it myself? The religious texts can be a bit hazy. Like others have mentioned, suicide doesn't seem to be outright condemned in the bible. Why doesn't God answer them? If God loves us so much- why wouldn't they try to intervene in an action that could send our soul to hell? Why has it all got to be so cryptic? I'm hoping- because there is no God. Surely, that's prefarable to one who toys with you, ignores you, condemns you.

This is why Gnosticism makes the most of sense to me. According to them, the creator of this world is a blood-thirsty, twisted, lower diety, who requires the suffering and pain of every living creature. So any prayers to end it would fall deaf on his ears. Even if you take humans out of the equation, just look at the animal kingdom, how cruel is their entire existance, they live their lives in a constant fear and dread.

In 'Gospel of Judas' by Bart D. Ehrman, Judas is actually the "protagonist", the only one of all the disciples who understood his teachings and did what was necessary and what Jesus actually asked of him, to not only free him of the flesh prison, but to mainly show others they should not be afraid, as our soul is eternal and the material world trapped us here, making us believe it's all there is.

I would need to do more research on this, but I've heard that the reason Mayan culture had to have their bloody humans sacrifices was so "the world wouldn't end". Playing more to Gnostic's idea that the god of this world is not who we think he is and the suffering is a principle of the matter itself, which will never subside, as the "matter itself is wrong". But it will inevitably come to an end. The only thing that will survive are the "sparks", our spirits, to whom this place was never a home to begin with. And so the reason so many of us feel like strangers to this world is because WE ARE.