Discussion even though you don’t want to, why stay alive?

[sai]

I know this has already been asked plenty of times, but I just wanted to open this question again to gain some insights and reactions to my own opinion on this matter (its selfish and lazy ikik)
Excuse my grammar!
What is my reason to live and are there "good" reasons to stay alive?
This is going to get a bit theoretical but stay with me: In all fairness, all reasons to stay alive are socially constructed, even biological ones. We (as a species) came to the conclusion that reproduction is what drives every animal on this planet and is the ultimate end-goal (well except for humans cause we are special). I do not fully agree with this, since it discredits the intelligence of other species but we will go with this for now. No matter which opinion you are, there is no way to know which opinion is correct, there is no normative right or wrong on this matter, of course we can observe what animals do and come to conclusions but we never know if our conclusions actually hold any value.
It is quite the same, if not even more so with reasons to live for humans as a species: living to fulfill ones dreams, to find true love, to enjoy life, to become educated, to see the world, to help people, to make others lives miserable, to gain wealth and power, etc. are all socially constructed reasons to live and the evalution if any of these reasons are good or bad is just as subjective and dependent on your culture and experience as a human being.
I have written quite a bit now just to ask the question:

Is/Are my reason/s to live actually worth living for and does this even matter?

I know that this is one of the hardest philosophical questions to ask and none of you, or me or anyone will have an answer that will please every person but I would love the insights of this community on this matter.

What are my reasons to live? I think the main things that make me keep going when I want to die the most are other people. I am experiencing this constant struggle between never thinking I am good enough for my loved ones and never ever being able to contribute to our relationship more than they do and just being a hurdle for them, but at the same time I rationally know (but find it incredibly hard to accept) that they love me, that they dont think that way and that I hurt our relationship more by thinking that way than if I wouldnt think that way. I depend on these loved ones for my own mental health but at the same time they hurt me because I cannot live up to my own standard for our relationship.

I cannot ctb because of them, because I cannot hurt them in this way, because I dont have the strength to do something so (imo) morally wrong. In my mind ctb and hurting them would not live up to my own standards of not hurting others.

I just want to clarify that I do not condemn others for thinking another way, please share your opinion, especially if it contradicts mine.

I have a few other reasons to live, that are more constructed and not as deeply incorporated in my way of thinking but that still keep me going and are the reason for my actions, for what I do in a week, for my plan in life.

I do have a plan, its quite ridiculous but I have constructed this plan and it really keeps me going. I want to contribute to this society in a positive way, I want to change this society or at least contribute to this change. I do not condemn anyone, no matter what this person does, since in my opinion there is no such thing as free will, we all think a certain way, because of the way our brain works biologically, because we were educated that way, because certain influences made us who we are. Every thought we have happens for a reason and that reason is basically our history (its hard to explain but I can try to elaborate if anyone is interested).
So I do not blame society and everyone that contributes to the exploitation of people, other animals and the environment as a whole. I believe this society can be changed and it is changing (for the better or worse I dont know) and I want to be a part of it, I want to make people more open-minded by helping them understand other cultures, different ways of thinking and make them understand what this society as a whole is doing to this planet and everything that lives on it. I plan on contributing to people changing their mind. I dont think I need to elaborate on my exact plan but I hope you get the general idea.

This plan is ridiculous and I doubt that I will contribute to this change in any meaningful way or any way that I am hoping to contribute but as long as I do not realize that my plan has failed I dont see any reason to give up on it, I am just wondering how soon that is and tbh its really not what keeps me going when I feel extremely bad its mainly that I dont have the strength to ctb.

I have written so much already and I am sorry but also extremely thankful for anyone that has read this far!

There are a few more things that bring me joy, even though that is probably the wrong word. I kinda want to grow old, to see how society develops, what will happen to this world, it is just a general interest in the development of this world and I am luckily in the privileged position to be able to experience this development (at least currently) without too much suffering, without the suffering that minorities face, that women have to face, that non-western people have to face, that people with (severe) disabilities and illnesses have to face. Of course everyone suffers under captialism and patriarchy but the extent to which some people have to suffer is so much different.

Lastly I want to list a few things I currently enjoy, I hope this wont be as long as the rest.

The first thing that came to mind was volleyball, I kind of fell in love with the sport, the satisfying process of getting better and playing the game and the ability to play it with others, that enjoy the sport just as much!

Music is incredible, thinking about it blows my mind, seriously! I listen to music for hours basically every day.

The internet and the vast knowledge that it provides mostly for free. I have this incredible thirst for knowledge that I hope never ends, I want to know and become this wise master like in the movies or something like that but in my special way.

I also want to get to know and understand my traumas better, why I think about things in such a weird way and how I can become satisfied with myself as a person (but tbh this is more like an active and very stressful task and less enjoyable).

Now after I basically wrote an essay, I want to hear your opinion, your opinion on what I wrote, why you think my way of thinking is wrong, why are you alive, what do you enjoy or what have you enjoyed in the past. I know this was probably incredibly hard to read for someone that is in a less positive mood than I am right now but thank you for taking the time and reading this and please share your opinion on what I said. And as last question, I am wondering what will happen if this socially constructed world that I made in my mind breaks down, how can I find new reasons to live?

 

[アホペンギン]

The only thing keeping me going is the fact that i dont have enough access to resources to ctb. if i had everything i needed, i would do it right now. Im glad you have hobbies and interests, though, in my opinion having those things are good for your mental health. I hope you have a good day :)

 

[sai]

The only thing keeping me going is the fact that i dont have enough access to resources to ctb. if i had everything i needed, i would do it right now. Im glad you have hobbies and interests, though, in my opinion having those things are good for your mental health. I hope you have a good day :)

I wish you a good day as well, what would be your preferable way tho and why do u have trouble to gain access to the resources

 

[アホペンギン]

I wish you a good day as well, what would be your preferable way tho and why do u have trouble to gain access to the resources

My preferable way would probably be the night night method, i doubt i would be able to do anything else because of my incompetence. Im having trouble accessing the materials because im still living with my family and my parents are strict as fuck

 

[FuneralCry]

I'm only still trapped here as suicide is made so unnecessarily difficult, risky and complicated in this world, if one doesn't find a way to leave they basically have no choice but to continue. But nobody is obligated to continue existing and I see it as always being preferable to not exist, not everyone sees existence as being something so desirable and valuable, only not existing appeals to me.

I see permanent relief from everything as being so ideal as existing is so pointless, futile and harmful to me, I see no benefit to being trapped in this meaningless existence just to decay from age and suffer in the process.

 

[Shaylla1998]

I hold the belief that one possible perspective is that the purpose of other species on this planet was to establish the foothold or the foundational structures and ecosystems necessary for the emergence of more complex beings, such as ourselves, and the development of civilization. I see it as a way for the universe to explore and understand itself through our conscious existence. It is a viewpoint that emphasizes the interconnectedness of all life forms and the potential for deeper meaning in our evolutionary journey.
And thus, considering the greater scheme, I see individuals, regardless of their actions, beliefs, choices, etc., as ultimately holding little significance in the context of civilization as a whole.

The reason I am still consciously existing is due to the footage I have witnessed, although its authenticity may be uncertain, depicting individuals facing significant failures and the consequential outcomes depicted in those videos. The prospect of potential life altering injuries or becoming disabled from the neck downward is a daunting thought, and it drives me to approach this matter with utmost caution and the desire to proceed responsibly. Overcoming accessibility challenges poses a significant barrier that I struggle to envision a clear solution for at the moment.

In the meantime, I find solace in playing video games, which happen to be to me one of the most, if not the most, beloved activities/hobbies in the world. Engaging in gaming serves as a way to pass the time and brings me enjoyment amidst the uncertainties I am facing.

 

[DutchMister1488]

gotta wrap the last things up

 

[sai]

I hold the belief that one possible perspective is that the purpose of other species on this planet was to establish the foothold or the foundational structures and ecosystems necessary for the emergence of more complex beings, such as ourselves, and the development of civilization. I see it as a way for the universe to explore and understand itself through our conscious existence. It is a viewpoint that emphasizes the interconnectedness of all life forms and the potential for deeper meaning in our evolutionary journey.
And thus, considering the greater scheme, I see individuals, regardless of their actions, beliefs, choices, etc., as ultimately holding little significance in the context of civilization as a whole.

The reason I am still consciously existing is due to the footage I have witnessed, although its authenticity may be uncertain, depicting individuals facing significant failures and the consequential outcomes depicted in those videos. The prospect of potential life altering injuries or becoming disabled from the neck downward is a daunting thought, and it drives me to approach this matter with utmost caution and the desire to proceed responsibly. Overcoming accessibility challenges poses a significant barrier that I struggle to envision a clear solution for at the moment.

In the meantime, I find solace in playing video games, which happen to be to me one of the most, if not the most, beloved activities/hobbies in the world. Engaging in gaming serves as a way to pass the time and brings me enjoyment amidst the uncertainties I am facing.

I must admit gaming is another thing that drove me for a long time, but I had to stop due to some reasons.

I find the theory u have presented extremely interesting and fascinating anting, though I find a consciousness of the universe quite hard to actually belief, since I have some criticism. If your theory is correct, then the universe is not particularly efficient, well it has infinite time so it does not matter but if it has the drive to explore itself, why not be as efficient as possible? Lets think of earth as one of many tries, with multiple ecosystems all across the universe. Earth is quite the sad attempt imo, there is an incredible amount of suffering and even though everything is somehow connected and in some sort of balance, I would not call it harmony, since a quite brutal system of natural selection is the driving force.
Now a counter argument might be the same argument I have presented earlier: we socially constructed natural selection as being violent, but then what is the moral compass of the universe and does it have one?

My second criticism regards us as a species, we as a species are an incredibly risky attempt, we actively destroy the world we live on and are incredibly bad at efficiency. We do not fit onto the system earth anymore and have the possibility of erasing us as a species.

Maybe your theory is true, but I must say I doubt that earth is a good attempt at the universe trying to understand itself.

I'm only still trapped here as suicide is made so unnecessarily difficult, risky and complicated in this world, if one doesn't find a way to leave they basically have no choice but to continue. But nobody is obligated to continue existing and I see it as always being preferable to not exist, not everyone sees existence as being something so desirable and valuable, only not existing appeals to me.

I see permanent relief from everything as being so ideal as existing is so pointless, futile and harmful to me, I see no benefit to being trapped in this meaningless existence just to decay from age and suffer in the process.

I'm only still trapped here as suicide is made so unnecessarily difficult, risky and complicated in this world, if one doesn't find a way to leave they basically have no choice but to continue. But nobody is obligated to continue existing and I see it as always being preferable to not exist, not everyone sees existence as being something so desirable and valuable, only not existing appeals to me.

I see permanent relief from everything as being so ideal as existing is so pointless, futile and harmful to me, I see no benefit to being trapped in this meaningless existence just to decay from age and suffer in the process.

Im not sure I can follow you.

You say suicide is difficult, risky and complicated, yet there are enough tall enough structures to make it impossible to survive a fall.
Well maybe it is difficult to convince yourself to jump but if you are so opposed to existence why can you not convince yourself?

You say that if you dont find a way to leave you are forced to continue existing, but does that statement even say anything? Obviously if you dont find the door inside of a room you will find it hard to leave but would it make sense any other way?

I support your statement that noone is obligated to exist, but wouldnt it be better to do anything, even if it doesnt work to stop existing? Even if u fail and become mentally impaired, you are probably not self-conscious enough to still think about your existence as "bad", though there is the possibility of that not being the case so idk

 

[Shaylla1998]

I must admit gaming is another thing that drove me for a long time, but I had to stop due to some reasons.

I find the theory u have presented extremely interesting and fascinating anting, though I find a consciousness of the universe quite hard to actually belief, since I have some criticism. If your theory is correct, then the universe is not particularly efficient, well it has infinite time so it does not matter but if it has the drive to explore itself, why not be as efficient as possible? Lets think of earth as one of many tries, with multiple ecosystems all across the universe. Earth is quite the sad attempt imo, there is an incredible amount of suffering and even though everything is somehow connected and in some sort of balance, I would not call it harmony, since a quite brutal system of natural selection is the driving force.
Now a counter argument might be the same argument I have presented earlier: we socially constructed natural selection as being violent, but then what is the moral compass of the universe and does it have one?

My second criticism regards us as a species, we as a species are an incredibly risky attempt, we actively destroy the world we live on and are incredibly bad at efficiency. We do not fit onto the system earth anymore and have the possibility of erasing us as a species.

Maybe your theory is true, but I must say I doubt that earth is a good attempt at the universe trying to understand itself.


Im not sure I can follow you.

You say suicide is difficult, risky and complicated, yet there are enough tall enough structures to make it impossible to survive a fall.
Well maybe it is difficult to convince yourself to jump but if you are so opposed to existence why can you not convince yourself?

You say that if you dont find a way to leave you are forced to continue existing, but does that statement even say anything? Obviously if you dont find the door inside of a room you will find it hard to leave but would it make sense any other way?

I support your statement that noone is obligated to exist, but wouldnt it be better to do anything, even if it doesnt work to stop existing? Even if u fail and become mentally impaired, you are probably not self-conscious enough to still think about your existence as "bad", though there is the possibility of that not being the case so idk

Regarding the efficiency of the universe's exploration of itself, we must consider that the universe operates on a vast timescale, allowing for countless iterations and experiments. Earth, as one of many potential attempts, may indeed have its challenges and imperfections. The concept of harmony can be subjective, as the natural world operates through intricate systems, including the process of natural selection. While it can be harsh, it plays a role in the diversity and adaptation of life forms. The universe's moral compass, if it exists, remains an open question that elicits philosophical discussions.

As for our species, I agree that we face significant challenges and have made detrimental impacts on our planet. However, our species is not a fixed entity. We possess the capacity for change and growth, and our actions and choices determine our path. The concept of free will adds complexity to our exploration of the universe, as it introduces the possibility of both failures and successes. It is through learning from our mistakes and embracing a sense of responsibility that we can strive to become better stewards of our world and enhance our journey of discovery.

Modern humans have been present on Earth for approximately 200,000 years, and the development of civilization occurred around 6,000 years ago. Considering the vastness of the universe and the timeline of human existence, it's clear that our exploration of the cosmos is still in its early stages. While we may not be highly efficient in our current endeavors, we possess the potential to become a highly advanced and efficient civilization over time.

When we consider the age of the universe, estimated to be around 13.8 billion years, the existence of modern humans accounts for only a minuscule portion, approximately 0.0014%, of its lifetime. Civilization, which emerged around 6,000 years ago, represents an even smaller fraction, approximately 0.000043% of the universe's existence. Furthermore, if we focus on the timeline of scientific exploration, dating back roughly 500 years to the works of Sir Isaac Newton, our active pursuit of knowledge about the universe encompasses an incredibly tiny portion, approximately 0.0000036%, of the universe's existence.

From a human perspective, this may appear inefficient or insignificant, but when we consider the immense timescale of the universe and the complexity of its phenomena, such as gravity, thermodynamics, quantum mechanics, galaxies, quarks, atoms, gluons, electrons, radiation, stars, etc., the past few centuries of active exploration represent just a fraction of a moment.

In the grand scheme of things, we are but one civilization among many potential civilizations that could exist in the universe. The process of experimentation often involves both successes and failures, and I believe it is through these iterations that progress toward the universe's exploration occurs.

 

[Dominicka]

My cat. I got over the feeling of responsibility of living for other humans, but I will stay alive for my cat.