Euthanasia for all

[Fadeawaaaay]

Just saw a doc on euthanasia featuring elderly and those suffering chronic illness. Made we wonder why the government should have any right to tell us how and when we die. Wish CTB was much easier. So complicated trying to procure N. I would feel so much more comfortable and confident leaving the process in the hands of a medical professional.

 

[rationaltake]

Yes. I agree.

 

[Nolife33]

Agree

 

[Hateyouprolife]

Fuck yes.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Yes, I'd like a teeth cleaning and a CTB please

 

[Nolife33]

Fuck yes.

Love your profile pic, haha so true

 

[Rational man]

Just saw a doc on euthanasia featuring elderly and those suffering chronic illness. Made we wonder why the government should have any right to tell us how and when we die. Wish CTB was much easier. So complicated trying to procure N. I would feel so much more comfortable and confident leaving the process in the hands of a medical professional.

We have a three pronged problem in that respect. Religions are opposed to euthanasia and religion still has some influence of state directives in part. The medical world is bound by ethics and the saving of life. And governments are generally weak and ineffective in changing their stance on this emotive issue ( they want votes ), not to mention the end!ess political obstruction, smoke and mirrors. Fortunately, terminally ill patients can exit via assistant dying in Switzerland and in some other countries too by assisted dying methods, but it costs alot of money, so it is the privaliged few who benefit in death as well as in life. UK parliament likely to pass the Assisted Dying bill to enable terminally ill people to end their life in UK if rhey so wish, legally. Regrettably, the term ' terminal ' is the key factor here.

 

[FuneralCry]

I agree. It is cruel how the society expects us to suffer for decades. With euthanasia there is no chance of failure. Nobody should have to resort to risky methods like hanging. Of course the society needs to keep people alive as they need workers and allowing euthanasia for everyone would shatter many peoples delusions that life is always worth living. I think having euthanasia legal for everyone would be a comforting thought for many people, knowing if they cannot take it anymore, they can end their life peacefully at a time of their own choosing.

 

[bed]

Euthanasia is slowly becoming less stigmatized. In Canada, MAID will be legal in 2023 for just mental illness.

Hopefully, in the future, it's an option for everyone who is an adult. I doubt that'll ever be a thing but not being able to do as you please with your body if it doesn't hurt anyone, just makes yourself a prisoner in your own flesh.

 

[Chinaski]

Whilst l wholeheartedly agree with the notion that euthanasia should be more widely accessible, and l too would love an accessible dignitas kiosk on my street corner, euthanasia for absolutely all at point of desire would be an absolutely terrible idea.

 

[NeedExit]

Well, at least in Germany the Supreme Court decided that suicide was a fundamental right and to insure the exercising of this right assistance to suicide by doctors or euthanasia organization like exit was also legal. The new government will discuss a new legislation which could allow issuing N not only to terminally people but everyone after repeated and clearly formulated will. Since the new government is formed with liberal pro-choice leaning parties, this could become interesting.

 

[NeverReallyHere]

Fortunately, terminally ill patients can exit via assistant dying in Switzerland and in some other countries too by assisted dying methods, but it costs alot of money, so it is the privaliged few who benefit in death as well as in life.

This is an excellent observation which I never considered before.

 

[NeedExit]

ess political obstruction, smoke and mirrors. Fortunately, terminally ill patients can exit via assistant dying in Switzerland and in some other countries too by assisted dying methods, but it costs alot of money, so it is the privaliged few who benefit in death as well as in life.

Assisted suicide isn't limited to terminally ill patients in Switzerland

 

[Chinaski]

Assisted suicide isn't limited to terminally ill patients in Switzerland

So it states on the brochure, but my understanding is that for the non-terminal it's an impossibly high bar for non-Swiss applicants.

 

[Rational man]

Assisted suicide isn't limited to terminally ill patients in Switzerland

That's interesting. I never new that!

So it states on the brochure, but my understanding is that for the non-terminal it's an impossibly high bar for non-Swiss applicants.

I think you make a valid point. Which authority would sanction assistance and under which criteria. Would there be a mechanism of indemnity in place for the authority ( I was thinking of surviving relatives who may contemplate legal recourse against authority xyz for dispatching their little Johnny ) !?

 

[NeedExit]

So it states on the brochure, but my understanding is that for the non-terminal it's an impossibly high bar for non-Swiss applicants.

At least in the PPH they have several cases of people that were assisted with suicide without being terminally ill.

Swiss law allows assisted suicide for everyone, not only terminally ill people. But it would be quite hard to actually find a doctor that prescribes you N if you're "just depressed"

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Whilst l wholeheartedly agree with the notion that euthanasia should be more widely accessible, and l too would love an accessible dignitas kiosk on my street corner, euthanasia for absolutely all at point of desire would be an absolutely terrible

Well maybe not that simple and quick.
I was having a conversation with a friend last night who is not even CtB prone. And I was telling her how I felt and how I wish it was easier to end my life.
And she said if ending your life was as easy as pressing a button she would do it right away. I was surprised.
And it did make me realize that we would have an astronomical number of CTBs if It were easier. Many people in the middle of a horrible life crisis – job loss, divorce, chronic illness, old age… not to mention People living under dictatorships and working horrible jobs in endless misery.
Millions and millions would take the easier way out.
For some vast portion of the human race Daily life is absolute torment.
And what would be the downside if 1 billion people decided to CTB? Perhaps some economic consequence. Their relatives and loved ones would be devastated. But selfishly, I would be all in favor. I desperately want to CTB right this minute But the hassle overwhelming. I would love a kiosk and an instant remedy. Every day brings more misery and pain. CTB is my only escape.
At some point in the future I do think CTB will be much more accessible. Its certainly the way things are headed.

 

[Chinaski]

Well maybe not that simple and quick.
I was having a conversation with a friend last night who is not even CtB prone. And I was telling her how I felt and how I wish it was easier to end my life.
And she said if ending your life was as easy as pressing a button she would do it right away. I was surprised.
And it did make me realize that we would have an astronomical number of CTBs if It were easier. Many people in the middle of a horrible life crisis – job loss, divorce, chronic illness, old age… not to mention People living under dictatorships and working horrible jobs in endless misery.
Millions and millions would take the easier way out.
For some vast portion of the human race Daily life is absolute torment.
And what would be the downside if 1 billion people decided to CTB? Perhaps some economic consequence. Their relatives and loved ones would be devastated. But selfishly, I would be all in favor. I desperately want to CTB right this minute But the hassle overwhelming. I would love a kiosk and an instant remedy. Every day brings more misery and pain. CTB is my only escape.
At some point in the future I do think CTB will be much more accessible. Its certainly the way things are headed.

This is exactly why it should be opposed. The folk most likely to utilise such an option would be, frankly, the poorest in society. The political implications of such a measure are immense and boil down to eugenics dressed as compassion. Suicide is an agonising decision, the biggest step of all, and it should not be doled out whimsically.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

This is exactly why it should be opposed. The folk most likely to utilise such an option would be, frankly, the poorest in society. The political implications of such a measure are immense and boil down to eugenics dressed as compassion. Suicide is an agonising decision, the biggest step of all, and it should not be doled out whimsically.

Okay on what basis would you "dole it out? " Would you grant say, yourself, permission? Ultimately, do you believe CTB should be an individuals choice or the choice of the state?

 

[Chinaski]

Ctb already is an individual's choice.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

Why make CTB difficult, painful and violent?
What would be your solution? Like I said, what would be your method for "doling it out "?

 

[Chinaski]

This is a ridiculous circular argument that crops up on here every other week tbh - l do not want a hyper-capitalist society to essentially pressurise the poor, the sick, the aged etc into an unnecessary death under a phoney veneer of compassion. Yes l wish suicide could be less bothersome for me personally, but death is often unpleasant. Nobody makes suicide "painful" or "violent", it just is.

I would also add that if the only thing preventing anyone from ctb is the fact that their govt is not merciful enough to give them a peaceful pill on request then they're not *that* suicidal. That's kind of the point - it's literally life or death, you have to definitely want it to get it.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

This is a ridiculous circular argument that crops up on here every other week tbh - l do not want a hyper-capitalist society to essentially pressurise the poor, the sick, the aged etc into an unnecessary death under a phoney veneer of compassion. Yes l wish suicide could be less bothersome for me personally, but death is often unpleasant. Nobody makes suicide "painful" or "violent", it just is.

I would also add that if the only thing preventing anyone from ctb is the fact that their govt is not merciful enough to give them a peaceful pill on request then they're not *that* suicidal. That's kind of the point - it's literally life or death, you have to definitely want it to get it.

I'm still trying to understand your criteria… I understand that you don't want a hyper capitalistic society that pressures poor people to end their own lives… But that's what we have and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That said, when you agree that physician assisted N Is a lot more humane than the alternative. In other words, far less violent and painful than the alternatives. And don't you think that option should be available to people in other socioeconomic predicaments. Right now it's only available to people who can get themselves to Switzerland or Belgium or Oregon and can afford the lengthy training process. Or to put it more bluntly, Wouldn't you be in favor of allowing all those people who throw themselves in front of trains or jump off a bridges or slash their arms or Blow their heads off with shotguns… Wouldn't you want those people to have a less violent less painful option… Some thing with guaranteed success that wouldn't leave them permanently handicapped, in a wheelchair, with wrecked internal organs, or disfigured? What would be your criteria for physician assisted euthanasia?

This is a ridiculous circular argument that crops up on here every other week tbh - l do not want a hyper-capitalist society to essentially pressurise the poor, the sick, the aged etc into an unnecessary death under a phoney veneer of compassion. Yes l wish suicide could be less bothersome for me personally, but death is often unpleasant. Nobody makes suicide "painful" or "violent", it just is.

I would also add that if the only thing preventing anyone from ctb is the fact that their govt is not merciful enough to give them a peaceful pill on request then they're not *that* suicidal. That's kind of the point - it's literally life or death, you have to definitely want it to get it.

This is a ridiculous circular argument that crops up on here every other week tbh - l do not want a hyper-capitalist society to essentially pressurise the poor, the sick, the aged etc into an unnecessary death under a phoney veneer of compassion. Yes l wish suicide could be less bothersome for me personally, but death is often unpleasant. Nobody makes suicide "painful" or "violent", it just is.

I would also add that if the only thing preventing anyone from ctb is the fact that their govt is not merciful enough to give them a peaceful pill on request then they're not *that* suicidal. That's kind of the point - it's literally life or death, you have to definitely want it to get it.

This is a ridiculous circular argument that crops up on here every other week tbh - l do not want a hyper-capitalist society to essentially pressurise the poor, the sick, the aged etc into an unnecessary death under a phoney veneer of compassion. Yes l wish suicide could be less bothersome for me personally, but death is often unpleasant. Nobody makes suicide "painful" or "violent", it just is.

I would also add that if the only thing preventing anyone from ctb is the fact that their govt is not merciful enough to give them a peaceful pill on request then they're not *that* suicidal. That's kind of the point - it's literally life or death, you have to definitely want it to get it.

I'm still trying to understand your criteria… I understand that you don't want a hyper capitalistic society that pressures poor people to end their own lives… But that's what we have and I don't see that changing anytime soon. That said, when you agree that physician assisted N Is a lot more humane than the alternative. In other words, far less violent and painful than the alternatives. And don't you think that option should be available to people in other socioeconomic predicaments. Right now it's only available to people who can get themselves to Switzerland or Belgium or Oregon and can afford the lengthy training process. Or to put it more bluntly, Wouldn't you be in favor of allowing all those people who throw themselves in front of trains or jump off a bridges or slash their arms or Blow their heads off with shotguns… Wouldn't you want those people to have a less violent less painful option… Some thing with guaranteed success that wouldn't leave them permanently handicapped, in a wheelchair, with wrecked internal organs, or disfigured? What would be your criteria for physician assisted euthanasia?

 

[Pluto]

There's a need for some nuance to protect very young people and various other vulnerable segments of the population, but yes, there should be reasonably wide access to euthanasia. The fact that human overpopulation is driving much of the ecosystem towards extinction, while perpetuating endless misery on ourselves, doesn't hurt this argument.

 

[Chinaski]

People consider suicide for various reasons. Socio-economic factors are often a contributor, for example it's not uncommon for people in the UK to commit suicide when they've had their benefits stopped, gotten into debt, struggle to access appropriate healthcare etc. For me I'd sooner strive to ameliorate those conditions than provide these folk with a hasty exit. This isn't a "pro life" position, it's the norm for someone who sympathises with the suicidal but sees suicide as a very last resort and not a first response, which is how it should be.

There are many people I've known who've been suicidal and gotten past it. They're grieving, their partner left, lost a job, whatever. For every one who is desperate for an immediate exit there are probably hundreds who are glad that suicide was too difficult. That, too, is how it should be.

Being pro-choice is about accepting the decision of an individual to ctb, it's not about creating a society which indulges, or even encourages, ctb as an option. Demanding a society which bends to your whim as a suicidal individual is selfish and adolescent. Yes l want to ctb easier and without fear, but l also wish cancer was less painful. It's far more honest to state "it's my own lack of courage holding me back" than it is to blame everyone else for not killing you imo.

There's a need for some nuance to protect very young people and various other vulnerable segments of the population, but yes, there should be reasonably wide access to euthanasia. The fact that human overpopulation is driving much of the ecosystem towards extinction, while perpetuating endless misery on ourselves, doesn't hurt this argument.

"there should be nuance to protect the.... btw overpopulation, so yeah, kill the poor"

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

People consider suicide for various reasons. Socio-economic factors are often a contributor, for example it's not uncommon for people in the UK to commit suicide when they've had their benefits stopped, gotten into debt, struggle to access appropriate healthcare etc. For me I'd sooner strive to ameliorate those conditions than provide these folk with a hasty exit. This isn't a "pro life" position, it's the norm for someone who sympathises with the suicidal but sees suicide as a very last resort and not a first response, which is how it should be.

There are many people I've known who've been suicidal and gotten past it. They're grieving, their partner left, lost a job, whatever. For every one who is desperate for an immediate exit there are probably hundreds who are glad that suicide was too difficult. That, too, is how it should be.

Being pro-choice is about accepting the decision of an individual to ctb, it's not about creating a society which indulges, or even encourages, ctb as an option. Demanding a society which bends to your whim as a suicidal individual is selfish and adolescent. Yes l want to ctb easier and without fear, but l also wish cancer was less painful. It's far more honest to state "it's my own lack of courage holding me back" than it is to blame everyone else for not killing you imo.

"there should be nuance to protect the.... btw overpopulation, so yeah, kill the poor"

And so I'm guessing your predicament has no chance of improving, hence your Desire to CTB?

 

[Chinaski]

And so I'm guessing your predicament has no chance of improving, hence your Desire to CTB?

It certainly appears unlikely at this stage.

 

[Pluto]

"there should be nuance to protect the.... btw overpopulation, so yeah, kill the poor"

I would probably count as poor for the sake of argument. And yes, it is a major reason behind my CTB plans, as there's a lack of escape from shitty jobs, a lack of access to therapies, etc. This is just the nature of it. Capitalism says 'stiff shit' if you don't 'make it'. Nobody has any entitlements if things go badly. Having to resort to illegal and/or barbaric methods is far from ideal, and I think a civilised society would have systems in place to deal humanely with people in my position.

 

[Chinaski]

I would probably count as poor for the sake of argument. And yes, it is a major reason behind my CTB plans, as there's a lack of escape from shitty jobs, a lack of access to therapies, etc. This is just the nature of it. Capitalism says 'stiff shit' if you don't 'make it'. Nobody has any entitlements if things go badly. Having to resort to illegal and/or barbaric methods is far from ideal, and I think a civilised society would have systems in place to deal humanely with people in my position.

No, a truly civilised society is one which does not drive people to suicide in the way you describe - one which drives people to suicide in this way but at least provides them the exit is absolutely not civilised, is frankly barbaric.

 

[Disappointered]

I feel like we're well past the point of return as far sophisticated barbarism or capitalistic exploitation or whatever goes. I'm fine with not dressing it up as eugenics and I don't even know or care at this point what the point of life is...i'm guessing there isn't one at all.

Well maybe not that simple and quick.
I was having a conversation with a friend last night who is not even CtB prone. And I was telling her how I felt and how I wish it was easier to end my life.
And she said if ending your life was as easy as pressing a button she would do it right away. I was surprised.
And it did make me realize that we would have an astronomical number of CTBs if It were easier. Many people in the middle of a horrible life crisis – job loss, divorce, chronic illness, old age… not to mention People living under dictatorships and working horrible jobs in endless misery.
Millions and millions would take the easier way out.
For some vast portion of the human race Daily life is absolute torment.
And what would be the downside if 1 billion people decided to CTB? Perhaps some economic consequence. Their relatives and loved ones would be devastated. But selfishly, I would be all in favor. I desperately want to CTB right this minute But the hassle overwhelming. I would love a kiosk and an instant remedy. Every day brings more misery and pain. CTB is my only escape.
At some point in the future I do think CTB will be much more accessible. Its certainly the way things are headed.

Yes.