Discussion Encouraging death then feeling sorry for the affected?

[MoonlitNight]

I dont understand how people encourage someone to drive themselves to end everything and then tell an affected person who loved them "sorry for your loss" even before encouraging said-someone to talk to that loved one?? how would they know once again said-someone considered everything before doing so? such questions are rarely even asked even though it's a possibility.

 

[Nillionaire]

I'm really conflicted about ending things, for both me and also other people. It's such a morally gray act and it's so difficult to decide what's temporary enough that you should just get through it and what is suffering enough that you should let go.

 

[CrystalR]

This. This is a heavy topic and a very complicated one at that, read on at your own discretion.

Some people encourage others to CTB (commit suicide) because they feel that this is the 'just' thing to do. There is a very prevalent idea on this forum that death is the only way to end suffering, and that whatever is after death is better than what their facing at the moment. Sort of like how Christian's will tell people to repent lest they be 'punished'.
While this view doesn't align with mine I do believe that, as this is an area in which everyone can voice their opinions, this belief needs to be respected and not disregarded. As for why these people still offer condolences to the affected peoples while they themselves caused this pain, they still believe the affected people deserve consolation. Again, this is just my interpretation and should be taken as such.

 

[hungry_ghost]

If dissuading someone from possibly CTB via platitudes and suggestions should be forbidden, then so should actively encouraging someone to do it.

Fair is fair.

No one has a right to tell someone not to, and no one has a right to tell someone to do it, especially when the ppl encouraging still choose to live.

 

[Source Energy]

I don't think anyone here would encourage someone to ctb, as in "there is no hope for you, do it". Maybe we're talking about encouraging a determined person to get over their fears, which is another beast altogether. If I'll be sitting in front of my SN glass, decision taken, and I chicken out because of tachycardia and stuff, some encouragement would be welcome to help me get thru with it. The decision of course was mine, and still is, but assuaging the fears constitutes help. I hope when the time comes I receive such encouragement. That is different than telling someone yes you should commit suicide.

The reverse is true as well. If someone's sitting in front of their SN glass, and starts wavering, encouraging them to put it off until they are sure, and potentially trying again to solve their problems, does not make you a pro lifer. Depending where the person is leaning, what their choice is, offer support to that.

It's a gray area, but I think most people mean well wherever they stand on the subject.

 

[MoonlitNight]

I don't think anyone here would encourage someone to ctb, as in "there is no hope for you, do it". Maybe we're talking about encouraging a determined person to get over their fears, which is another beast altogether. If I'll be sitting in front of my SN glass, decision taken, and I chicken out because of tachycardia and stuff, some encouragement would be welcome to help me get thru with it. The decision of course was mine, and still is, but assuaging the fears constitutes help. I hope when the time comes I receive such encouragement. That is different than telling someone yes you should commit suicide.

The reverse is true as well. If someone's sitting in front of their SN glass, and starts wavering, encouraging them to put it off until they are sure, and potentially trying again to solve their problems, does not make you a pro lifer. Depending where the person is leaning, what their choice is, offer support to that.

It's a gray area, but I think most people mean well wherever they stand on the subject.

maybe you havent gotten to that side of this site yet. just look at the people venting about being hopeless. you'll find someone linking methods, success rate and a happy forever sleep.

 

[FuneralCry]

No, I'm sorry but this forum doesn't "encourage" suicide. Nobody is forced to come on here and nobody is told that they must die, they only have their decision respected if that is what they choose to do. If someone decided to go through with suicide, they came to that conclusion themselves and it was their choice. They wanted to die. This forum just accepts suicide as being a perfectly rational option, it's a pro choice forum which respects people's decisions about whether they choose to live or die. It's important that people have access to method information so they don't end up suffering more from a failed attempt, just having this information isn't "encouraging" them to go through with it, it's giving them a choice. And if someone is giving advice to someone about methods it's because they specifically asked for it, nobody is having method information pushed onto them.

By the way OP, I know that you are just a pro lifer who came here because of all the media attention, I know that you are just here to spread lies about this site, maybe you should just accept the fact that some people want to die and suicidal people deserve a place to be open about the subject of suicide without recieving toxic positivity. If people see potential for their lives to improve and they want to continue existing then there is the recovery section for those people. I bet that to people like you it's "encouraging" saying anything which isn't like "there is so much hope, please get help, it gets better". The reality is that for many people in this world, suicide is simply the better option and it's up to the individual whether it's true for them.

 

[MoonlitNight]

No, I'm sorry but this forum doesn't "encourage" suicide. Nobody is forced to come on here and nobody is told that they must die, they only have their decision respected if that is what they choose to do. If someone decided to go through with suicide, they came to that conclusion themselves and it was their choice. They wanted to die. This forum just accepts suicide as being a perfectly rational option, it's a pro choice forum which respects people's decisions about whether they choose to live or die. It's important that people have access to method information so they don't end up suffering more from a failed attempt, just having this information isn't "encouraging" them to go through with it, it's giving them a choice. And if someone is giving advice to someone about methods it's because they specifically asked for it, nobody is having method information pushed onto them.

By the way OP, I know that you are just a pro lifer who came here because of all the media attention, I know that you are just here to spread lies about this site, maybe you should just accept the fact that some people want to die and suicidal people deserve a place to be open about the subject of suicide without recieving toxic positivity. If people see potential for their lives to improve and they want to continue existing then there is the recovery section for those people. I bet that to people like you it's "encouraging" saying anything which isn't like "there is so much hope, please get help, it gets better". The reality is that for many people in this world, suicide is simply the better option and it's up to the individual whether it's true for them.

valid points, but no im not a pro lifer, i have my own issues but right now i dont really have a way out except suicide either but i have people i love so im staying and there isn't anything much to improve on so i've decided to keep it to myself. it's more of family issues. i hate the people who say "it's gonna get better" and all the shit because i know those things will follow you well into the future and haunt you there. i plan to get therapy with my partner in the long run.

Yes i am against suicide (even tho i consider it at the same time?? its confusing) and i do think it's messed up that people do support it but im not going to spread lies or that sort of this site. Like I said i have issues myself too that i may one day vent here.
I have a lot of things i hate about life, most common on anyone would understand is the apathy and constant repition of work and dullness in life, it makes me feel like not continuing it. But right now i just want to see if i'll be able to be here at my most vulnerable moments looking for a good vent or reasons to be strong for without getting told to rid the world of myself.
I went through a lot of posts before i decided to post anything myself, but i did observe a lot of people feeling hopeless and while there were offers of people to vent to, there were also people who just plainly recommended them to end it. Their familiars would post here after the incident and they'd say "sorry" and i never really understood it.

 

[MoonlitNight]

No, I'm sorry but this forum doesn't "encourage" suicide. Nobody is forced to come on here and nobody is told that they must die, they only have their decision respected if that is what they choose to do. If someone decided to go through with suicide, they came to that conclusion themselves and it was their choice. They wanted to die. This forum just accepts suicide as being a perfectly rational option, it's a pro choice forum which respects people's decisions about whether they choose to live or die. It's important that people have access to method information so they don't end up suffering more from a failed attempt, just having this information isn't "encouraging" them to go through with it, it's giving them a choice. And if someone is giving advice to someone about methods it's because they specifically asked for it, nobody is having method information pushed onto them.

By the way OP, I know that you are just a pro lifer who came here because of all the media attention, I know that you are just here to spread lies about this site, maybe you should just accept the fact that some people want to die and suicidal people deserve a place to be open about the subject of suicide without recieving toxic positivity. If people see potential for their lives to improve and they want to continue existing then there is the recovery section for those people. I bet that to people like you it's "encouraging" saying anything which isn't like "there is so much hope, please get help, it gets better". The reality is that for many people in this world, suicide is simply the better option and it's up to the individual whether it's true for them.

also with that being, i've seen your responses around the site a lot. Im having trouble navigating and hope you can help me? for instance a person would follow up what they said in a new thread and i'd try to go to their profile to see what their last post was but im not able to see it.. also is it unwelcome here or bad that it'd make me feel better about myself if i want to encourage people who ask for it? i think someone's application got rejected for saying they'd like to join this forum to help people who are looking for encouragement to live.. i know the sound of saying someone would come here to find a reason to live may sound weird but we can't really discuss the topic without being judged outside can we..

 

[Fwompje]

Yes i am against suicide (even tho i consider it at the same time?? its confusing) and i do think it's messed up that people do support it but im not going to spread lies or that sort of this site.

Sounds pro-life to me. It's so hypocritical of you to only be fine with you killing yourself. If you're going to be pro-choice it has to be for others as well. (not everyone of course, some people are hurt and impulsive and can get better, I'm talking about people where who've fleshed out a plan for months)

 

[FuneralCry]

I went through a lot of posts before i decided to post anything myself, but i did observe a lot of people feeling hopeless and while there were offers of people to vent to, there were also people who just plainly recommended them to end it. Their familiars would post here after the incident and they'd say "sorry" and i never really understood it.

No, you are lying. People on this website don't say "just go through with it", people only respect the person's decision if suicide is what they decide to do themselves. And you don't see family members regularly coming on here and posting. Respecting someone's decision when they want to die is being compassionate and is validating their feelings. It's also compassionate to say "sorry for your loss" when somebody has lost someone. It's possible to both respect people's decisions and be sympathetic towards loss, acting in that way towards both types of people is just being supportive.

Saying "I hope you find peace" to someone that desperately wants to die isn't "encouraging" them to do it, it's just respecting a choice that somebody has already made. The right to die is a basic human right and there is nothing "messed up" about it. We are all going to die anyway and for many people it makes sense for them to exit at a time of their own choosing. Suicide is a choice that people are perfectly entitled to make, and nobody on here is stopping those who want to live from doing so. Instead the thing that would be messed up is insisting that someone must continue existing when they don't want to be here, to want to force someone to suffer is extreme cruelty. It disgusts me how so many in this world are against the right to die.

also with that being, i've seen your responses around the site a lot. Im having trouble navigating and hope you can help me? for instance a person would follow up what they said in a new thread and i'd try to go to their profile to see what their last post was but im not able to see it.. also is it unwelcome here or bad that it'd make me feel better about myself if i want to encourage people who ask for it? i think someone's application got rejected for saying they'd like to join this forum to help people who are looking for encouragement to live.. i know the sound of saying someone would come here to find a reason to live may sound weird but we can't really discuss the topic without being judged outside can we..

You need a few more posts and then a search function should show up. Then you can type in the name of a user to see all of their posts. And also some people have their profile set to private, once you have a few more posts you will be able to access the profiles that members can view as well.

But I just think that people with your views are best suited to just stay in the recovery section, unless you can respect people's decisions. Those in the recovery section are those who want to stay in this world and maybe see potential for their situation to improve.

In the suicide section, it's usually people who want to vent, have their feelings validated and decisions supported or receive method advice. If people wanted advice and positivity they would either ask for it or post in the recovery section or just go anywhere else in this pro life society. This is the only place where people can be open about the subject of suicide after all without all of the stigma. People come here to escape anything pro life and it's insensitive to invalidate people's feelings and push the idea that they should live, when they are clearly not asking for it in their post. It's not a self help forum and this site isn't intended for people who are against the right to die. But if you want to offer advice to people and post positivity then there's the recovery section for that, which we are in now. If people come here for a "reason to live" then they will post in the recovery section. This site has separate sections for a reason.

 

[WitheringBird02]

With everything said here. I found this thread very informative. But i guess i got one thing wrong here i thought this was a forum which respects and try to understand each other's opinion. The OP of the post was genuinely and nicely Asking or having a discussion on the topic which they seem fit. As the person funeralcry said this forum does not encourage sucide which is by far true ( if you ignore the fact that you can access every bit of info in perfect detail or what to do and how to do ) no one encourages anyone to die here (at least not directly) you can do and say anything here as long as you state "i hope you are only asking for educational purpose"
There are different sections here for that particular reason but i believe we don't have to wage war between all the sections .....we all are suffering here but i do feel some people are having some serious problems here. Tryna trash talk people.
As funeralcry said we should respect people choices but this a bit hypocritical cuz it seems like funeralcry can't respect other's opinion...i have read few messages from funeral cry and i ahve to say this very respectfully that you funeralcry are very quick to judge people very opposite of the things you preach you are very quick to label someone as "pro lifer" and spreading lies and toxic positivity.........and we are in the recovery section so i believe we were allowed to talk about this topic here?
You get offended very easily i believe (i am not invalidating your pain and suffering i respect your choices and thought process)
If OP and all the other people you say here are spreading toxic positivity so i believe i could say you are spreading toxic negativity?

I believe OP respects your choices too but it seems like you can't respect other people's choices..... What i find here is even a little pinch of positivity and hope is shunned here( i knew this and was aware of it to not post anything positive here but i didn't knew we can't post something positive in recovery section too without getting personally attacked by some well known member who clearly have some serious problems which i respect from the bottom of my heart.)

 

[FuneralCry]

and we are in the recovery section so i believe we were allowed to talk about this topic here?

But the thing is that this thread has nothing to do with recovery or positivity even if it's in this section. This thread is someone accusing the forum of "encouraging" suicide and I'm just defending the forum. People can post positive things about their own recovery in here and nobody has a problem with it, as it's in the appropriate section. I usually don't really come in this section as I don't really relate to any of the posts but I saw this thread and I felt a need to reply as it's not about someone's recovery, this thread is about people who post in the suicide section specifically. To be honest I think that if someone's spreading misinformation about this site on here then they need to be put right and I'm being perfectly respectful in my reply.

 

[ermurazor]

I dont understand how people encourage someone to drive themselves to end everything and then tell an affected person who loved them "sorry for your loss" even before encouraging said-someone to talk to that loved one?? how would they know once again said-someone considered everything before doing so? such questions are rarely even asked even though it's a possibility.

Ive been a bit of a lurker the past few weeks and there was no encouragement to ctb in any thread. Its more about accepting and giving information without being judged.
You can accept someones decision to CTB and empathize with them and STILL also empathize with their relatives and friends and feel sorry for them. Its possible.

 

[MoonlitNight]

No, you are lying. People on this website don't say "just go through with it", people only respect the person's decision if suicide is what they decide to do themselves. And you don't see family members regularly coming on here and posting. Respecting someone's decision when they want to die is being compassionate and is validating their feelings. It's also compassionate to say "sorry for your loss" when somebody has lost someone. It's possible to both respect people's decisions and be sympathetic towards loss, acting in that way towards both types of people is just being supportive.

Saying "I hope you find peace" to someone that desperately wants to die isn't "encouraging" them to do it, it's just respecting a choice that somebody has already made. The right to die is a basic human right and there is nothing "messed up" about it. We are all going to die anyway and for many people it makes sense for them to exit at a time of their own choosing. Suicide is a choice that people are perfectly entitled to make, and nobody on here is stopping those who want to live from doing so. Instead the thing that would be messed up is insisting that someone must continue existing when they don't want to be here, to want to force someone to suffer is extreme cruelty. It disgusts me how so many in this world are against the right to die.

You need a few more posts and then a search function should show up. Then you can type in the name of a user to see all of their posts. And also some people have their profile set to private, once you have a few more posts you will be able to access the profiles that members can view as well.

But I just think that people with your views are best suited to just stay in the recovery section, unless you can respect people's decisions. Those in the recovery section are those who want to stay in this world and maybe see potential for their situation to improve.

In the suicide section, it's usually people who want to vent, have their feelings validated and decisions supported or receive method advice. If people wanted advice and positivity they would either ask for it or post in the recovery section or just go anywhere else in this pro life society. This is the only place where people can be open about the subject of suicide after all without all of the stigma. People come here to escape anything pro life and it's insensitive to invalidate people's feelings and push the idea that they should live, when they are clearly not asking for it in their post. It's not a self help forum and this site isn't intended for people who are against the right to die. But if you want to offer advice to people and post positivity then there's the recovery section for that, which we are in now. If people come here for a "reason to live" then they will post in the recovery section. This site has separate sections for a reason.

yup I know to stay in the recovery section. and no i don't think it's pro-life because the only thing keeping me from ctb is fear of an afterlife since I've been raised with that ideology. there's a thread about it that I regularly visit. after all.. living probably can't be that bad as the idea of hell right? and since I have a partner who's helping me through my grievances I don't have much of a reason as them. tho I have to say I do like to read vents to sympathize(please note I'm not using the word empathize because like you said, with my comments I will probably sound like a pro-lifer so I'd rather not comment) with the OP. I really do feel bad for the people who've reached the end of their line mentally, physically, financially, socially and so on.. if there are others.

and no I do not mean when they wish peace upon others as encouraging it. and yes it is rare but I do see people venting and getting encouraged (and by that I mean people replying by sharing similar experiences and saying their way out was knowing that had methods to ctb ready at any time or saying they would self-harm) it rarely every happens but it does and I was confused about it.
I might not understand the concept of accepting when someone wants to die, and if i knew them irl I would certainly try to fill in what they desperately want and if not, I'd feel really guilty about myself but i would not step in to stop them. especially if, like me and many others they have tried to hard to be enough but never are.
And thank you for the instructions, may I ask which number of posts it should be? I'm mostly here for the sake of reading vents, goodbye letters and sharing gaming passions (I'll start a thread about it soon probably, I'm scared others will make fun of me for it kinda)

Sounds pro-life to me. It's so hypocritical of you to only be fine with you killing yourself. If you're going to be pro-choice it has to be for others as well. (not everyone of course, some people are hurt and impulsive and can get better, I'm talking about people where who've fleshed out a plan for months)

I dont understand. are you implying that I'd give away others but do it myself? it's nothing like that.. I've replied to the other comment if you'd wish to know in detail about my view of it. Thank you for validating the people who've reached the end of their capability.

Sounds pro-life to me. It's so hypocritical of you to only be fine with you killing yourself. If you're going to be pro-choice it has to be for others as well. (not everyone of course, some people are hurt and impulsive and can get better, I'm talking about people where who've fleshed out a plan for months)

I dont understand. are you implying that I'd give away others but do it myself? it's nothing like that.. I've replied to the other comment if you'd wish to know in detail about my view of it. Thank you for validating the people who've reached the end of their capability.

But the thing is that this thread has nothing to do with recovery or positivity even if it's in this section. This thread is someone accusing the forum of "encouraging" suicide and I'm just defending the forum. People can post positive things about their own recovery in here and nobody has a problem with it, as it's in the appropriate section. I usually don't really come in this section as I don't really relate to any of the posts but I saw this thread and I felt a need to reply as it's not about someone's recovery, this thread is about people who post in the suicide section specifically. To be honest I think that if someone's spreading misinformation about this site on here then they need to be put right and I'm being perfectly respectful in my reply.

being respectful meaning saying you're disgusting by my ideals accusing me of constantly being here for the sake of trying to make this forum look bad? it was a genuine question I had. and yes I do think it is "messed up" to stand back contently and watch but don't you question why I didn't post about it and asked a question related to a contradicting practice instead??

 

[FuneralCry]

You do know that to be pro life means to not respect the right to die and to be against suicide, and from what you've written you sound like you are pro life. And if someone is sharing their own experience, that's in no way encouraging other people to suicide as people are just talking about themselves, they are not telling anyone else to do anything. And also, it says nowhere on this site how many posts are required for the search function, but I don't think that it's many more than what you already have. Eventually the option to search should show up in the corner of the screen.

 

[MoonlitNight]

You do know that to be pro life means to not respect the right to die and to be against suicide, and from what you've written you sound like you are pro life. And if someone is sharing their own experience, that's in no way encouraging other people to suicide as people are just talking about themselves, they are not telling anyone else to do anything. And also, it says nowhere on this site how many posts are required for the search function, but I don't think that it's many more than what you already have. Eventually the option to search should show up in the corner of the screen.

I literally had to search it up cuz I've never been called that before aha- (I got something about being against abortion cuz LiFe tO fEtUS and that shit)
then what are the people that walk the extra mile to make sure that person stays alive by sending them to a psych ward? I reckoned those would have more of an effect to be called a pro-lifer.

 

[FuneralCry]

I literally had to search it up cuz I've never been called that before aha- (I got something about being against abortion cuz LiFe tO fEtUS and that shit)
then what are the people that walk the extra mile to make sure that person stays alive by sending them to a psych ward? I reckoned those would have more of an effect to be called a pro-lifer.

I believe that the term pro lifer is most commonly used in relation to those who are against abortion, but anyone can be seen as a pro lifer in regards to suicide if someone says that they want to die, and the other person doesn't respect this and tells them to live instead. Those who force people into psych wards are especially cruel pro lifers.

 

[MoonlitNight]

I believe that the term pro lifer is most commonly used in relation to those who are against abortion, but anyone can be seen as a pro lifer in regards to suicide if someone says that they want to die, and the other person doesn't respect this and tells them to live instead. Those who force people into psych wards are especially cruel pro lifers.

I would suggest in any way I can help but if they're not willing to accept help I'd probably ask them to keep me out if it, since once again the guilt is really hard to take. especially if they're a genuine good person who has been mistreated to that point.
so not being pro-deafh makes me a pro-life?

 

[FuneralCry]

I would suggest in any way I can help but if they're not willing to accept help I'd probably ask them to keep me out if it, since once again the guilt is really hard to take. especially if they're a genuine good person who has been mistreated to that point.
so not being pro-deafh makes me a pro-life?

I think that those who want help either post in the recovery section or specifically ask for it on here. But anyway, there is a difference between pro life, pro choice and pro death. This forum is pro choice.
To be pro choice means to respect people's decisions whether they choose to live or die, to be pro death means to insist that everyone must die and not respect people's personal decisions about what they want and to be pro life means to insist that people must live. Not respecting someone's wish to die when suicide is what they want and insisting that they must live instead means to be pro life.

 

[MoonlitNight]

I think that those who want help either post in the recovery section or specifically ask for it on here. But anyway, there is a difference between pro life, pro choice and pro death. This forum is pro choice.
To be pro choice means to respect people's decisions whether they choose to live or die, to be pro death means to insist that everyone must die and not respect people's personal decisions about what they want and to be pro life means to insist that people must live. Not respecting someone's wish to die when suicide is what they want and insisting that they must live instead means to be pro life.

I was saying that in context to real life. I mentioned before that it's very unlikely I'll reply in a vent unless it's to wish good luck and speedy recovery for those who have not decided. like I said if someone has decided I'd ask to keep me out of it so I ask you to define me again.
thinking about my boyfriend in this situation it would really hurt to do something like that but he's absolutely set on a future with me so thankfully I won't have to do it.

You do know that to be pro life means to not respect the right to die and to be against suicide, and from what you've written you sound like you are pro life. And if someone is sharing their own experience, that's in no way encouraging other people to suicide as people are just talking about themselves, they are not telling anyone else to do anything. And also, it says nowhere on this site how many posts are required for the search function, but I don't think that it's many more than what you already have. Eventually the option to search should show up in the corner of the screen.

it appears at around 8 comments, thanks.