“Empathy is intelligence. High IQ people tend to also have high EQ”

[sserafim]

Empathy is intelligence. High IQ people tend to also have high EQ

Is this true or not? If so, why is this the case? Personally, I don't believe that empathy is intelligence. High EQ people probably don't have high IQ

 

[untothedepths]

I really don't know. I probably have abnormally high empathy. I'm moved by sad videos, real or fake, all the time. Text makes me cry. Arguments makes me cry. Today I cried over a fight. But I'm unintelligent with math, can't remember things right, and feel like I can only write stories moderately. I really don't think I'm intelligent at all, but I'm probably a rare case and its anecdotal anyway.

 

[Lady Laudanum]

I don't think there's a very strong correlation between the two. In fact, I don't know if there even is any correlation.

 

[anhedonya]

IQ tests aren't a good way to source intelligence because the concept of intelligence varies by culture, place of living, faith, other social components, and more. For example, an American that is hailed as a genius in California might be viewed as a total moron by someone in Taiwan. And someone from Ukraine might be viewed very highly there, then come to the United States and be treated differently due to their immigration status even if they are "intelligent" in an objective fashion. Empathy is not everything either, compassion is the important thing. Even if you lack empathy or sympathy, being able to form compassion (which looks differently for everyone) is what makes you treat people kindly and thus your "EQ" if such a thing actually exists. That's how I see it anyhow.

 

[EvisceratedJester]

From what I've gathered, most studies have found mixed results. Some studies find that those with high IQs exhibited high EQs, others found the opposite, and others found no correlation between the two. A meta-analysis looking into it found that, when measured using ability rather than trait models, gifted individuals generally had higher EQs on average.

Some research has examined emotional intelligence among gifted individuals, but these individual studies have provided mixed results. The present meta-analysis aimed to clarify the nature of the relationship between emotional intelligence and giftedness. Hedge's unbiased g was used as the effect size metric, and a 3-level multilevel meta-analytic approach was applied, due to the dependency among the effect sizes obtained from the same study. The analyses used 81 effect sizes, from 17 published studies, and indicated that there was a significant difference between gifted and non-gifted participants in terms of emotional intelligence in favor of gifted individuals (g = 0.120, p = .023, 95% CI [0.031, 0.208]). The moderator analyses revealed that gifted individuals tended to be more emotionally intelligent when emotional intelligence is measured based on ability, but not trait models.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0191886920306942

 

[derpyderpins]

Is this true or not? If so, why is this the case? Personally, I don't believe that empathy is intelligence. High EQ people probably don't have high IQ

sigh. Honestly -and this is going to sound bad so let me preface it by saying IQ has little value for measuring an individual - I think EQ is made-up bullshit by people who are sad they don't have a higher IQ. As far as empathy: as a "high IQ" person, I think (hope) I have way more empathy now than I did when I was younger, so I'd say it's at least partially a learned skill.

IQ tests aren't a good way to source intelligence because the concept of intelligence varies by culture, place of living, faith, other social components, and more. For example, an American that is hailed as a genius in California might be viewed as a total moron by someone in Taiwan. And someone from Ukraine might be viewed very highly there, then come to the United States and be treated differently due to their immigration status even if they are "intelligent" in an objective fashion. Empathy is not everything either, compassion is the important thing. Even if you lack empathy or sympathy, being able to form compassion (which looks differently for everyone) is what makes you treat people kindly and thus your "EQ" if such a thing actually exists. That's how I see it anyhow.

Continuing what I said above. IQ can be good for studying general "intelligence" of a population, e.g. location or demographic breakdowns, but you're absolutely right that it's limited in scope and doesn't give you the whole picture on someone.

 

[LaughingGoat]

It's a really interesting question and has been a topic of debate in psychology for a while. Generally, it would be stated that empathy and intelligence do not have a causational relationship. There is strong correlation between empathy and EQ. The correlation between IQ and EQ has some contradictory results in studies; EQ isn't defined & measured in a consistent way. A better indicator for high EQ is whether someone has maladaptive thought patterns and logical thinking.

 

[final_countdown12]

IQ test is totally outdated, it doesnt help as a reference anymore.
Lots of people claim to have high IQ and you can clearly see how stupid/slow/dumb they are.

 

[halleyscomet]

I do not know my IQ or EQ, but I tend to be very smart academically and pretty slow emotionally, due to autism.

 

[damyon]

sigh. Honestly -and this is going to sound bad so let me preface it by saying IQ has little value for measuring an individual - I think EQ is made-up bullshit by people who are sad they don't have a higher IQ. As far as empathy: as a "high IQ" person, I think (hope) I have way more empathy now than I did when I was younger, so I'd say it's at least partially a learned skill.

While I generally agree with your skepticism, I'm hesitant to dismiss the concept of EQ completely.

Consider this analogy: EQ is like your genetic predisposition for muscle development—you have only a certain potential.
People who possess the traits to become better emotionally can significantly advance in that domain. IQ helps you achieve your genetic limit faster - just like IQ helps you choose a better training program if we are talking about building muscle mass.


~~~
I have no idea what the scientific definition of EQ is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[derpyderpins]

While I generally agree with your skepticism, I'm hesitant to dismiss the concept of EQ completely.

Consider this analogy: EQ is like your genetic predisposition for muscle development—you have only a certain potential.
People who possess the traits to become better emotionally can achieve higher development in that area. IQ helps you achieve your genetic limit faster - just like IQ helps you choose a better training program if we are talking about building muscle mass.


~~~
I have no idea what the scientific definition of EQ is ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I guess that last line is more my thing. I remember my IQ test and I can see how it was a measure of my ability in certain ways. Even accepting that we all have a certain empathy capacity, i don't think there's any way you can accurately measure and put a score on it. I had similar complaints when I moved on from STEM to law school.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

If it is true, it's perhaps only true for normal people but it definitely isn't true for autistic people. I think autistic people who have high IQ also have a lower EQ.

Though, I personally don't think that people having a higher IQ means that people have a higher EQ too. imo, it seems like people who have a higher IQ have only an average EQ (of course autistic people don't count into this) but can use their EQ to its maximum. Their EQ is still average of course but I feel like they can use it better. An example of this is by appearing more confident in what you say

 

[LastFlowers]

Depending on your definition of intelligence, it would be rather obvious that someone with a natural ease in understanding the world around them or a heightened ability for critical thought..would end up more likely to empathize as they could at least cognitively make sense of where someone else was coming from and why.
However, an intelligent person with ego or motive to undermine what they're able to understand..could also find ease in presenting those facts differently, in abusing them or bastardizing them to support their own favor.
If their intelligence includes exemplary language skills, then surely they could succeed at being convincing..toward others or even inwardly, for better or worse.
Possible Olympians at mental gymnastics, if you will.

Unfortunately I've witnessed intelligent or highly educated people (alongside powerful people..and willful morons) using their intelligence or related skills to keep other people down and voiceless-people who are actually correct and attempting desperately to bolster truths that they don't have the mental wherewithal, privilege or stamina to push above the noise of some wordsmith with ill-intent.

You will see this in all areas of life, even the scientific community, which is why pretty much everything should be taken with a grain of salt if you're unable to research behind the curtain of whatever is being presented to you on stage.

Anyway, though I truly wish that empathy came with the territory of any privilege, including intelligence…sometimes the very opposite correlation is the case.
I think a more likely cause for advanced ability to empathize..would be lived experiences.
Perhaps a combination of having endured suffering while also possessing sufficent intellect in order to mentally extend that raw understanding to more areas of life and more people outside yourself..is a most perfect recipe for becoming particularly empathic.

Still, there are so many factors. And even the most intelligent or empathetic person may suffer to a degree where they no longer find themselves to be astute..nor caring for other people, possibly because their energy and empathy has had to be turned inward when running on empty, when given nothing to restore their proclivity and ability from the outside world.
If you don't receive empathy, you will eventually be unable to give it.
At first, that may be all you do (give) because you understand what it's like to live without..but suffering for too long can upset that reaction and result in apathy that might even parallel "sociopathy".

 

[Throwawayacc3]

IQ tests aren't a good way to source intelligence because the concept of intelligence varies by culture, place of living, faith, other social components, and more. For example, an American that is hailed as a genius in California might be viewed as a total moron by someone in Taiwan. And someone from Ukraine might be viewed very highly there, then come to the United States and be treated differently due to their immigration status even if they are "intelligent" in an objective fashion. Empathy is not everything either, compassion is the important thing. Even if you lack empathy or sympathy, being able to form compassion (which looks differently for everyone) is what makes you treat people kindly and thus your "EQ" if such a thing actually exists. That's how I see it anyhow.

It's best to take MENSA tests as they are located worldwide and the data is collated. It's very different than "random" online IQ tests plus the questions are nothing like the ones you see online (I did the UK home test and got 131 while deeply depressed, on Sertaline and at the time had the worst diet so brain function would have been deteriorated).

Edit: I did it because last year I was reading papers that linked autism and high IQ with depression so I wanted some data to see if this matched with me. Ironically it did. Great…..

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Without reading the rest of the thread, and going off the title alone, I doubt it. Maybe empathy is merely a category of intelligence but it does not represent the entirety of it. Even if empathy is intelligence, intelligence certainly isn't empathy. There are plenty of times where it's smarter to simply leave someone in the dust for the greater good or to simply give up on somebody that can't be helped.

 

[LastFlowers]

sigh. Honestly -and this is going to sound bad so let me preface it by saying IQ has little value for measuring an individual - I think EQ is made-up bullshit by people who are sad they don't have a higher IQ. As far as empathy: as a "high IQ" person, I think (hope) I have way more empathy now than I did when I was younger, so I'd say it's at least partially a learned skill.


Continuing what I said above. IQ can be good for studying general "intelligence" of a population, e.g. location or demographic breakdowns, but you're absolutely right that it's limited in scope and doesn't give you the whole picture on someone.

Well..to be frank, you're going to be pretty biased as someone who knowingly has a high measured IQ. I think your assumption is a bit condescending and tbh, I would respect someone who prided themselves on being exceptionally empathetic over exceptionally intelligent, in most scenarios…even more so if it was the result of effort.
As long as they were being honest with themselves (some people claim to be "empaths" and the like, of which they are clearly not).

(It's also easier to wave the importance of something off, when you already possess that very thing since you don't have to suffer the lack of it..but yes, IQ as a measurement is a very imperfect and narrow tool.)

Perhaps the way people define "EQ" is what you take issue with, though I do think there is a distinction to be made regarding emotional/empathic acuity and other types of acumen.
Some people define emotional intelligence as being able to empathize emotionally with others..some define it as one's ability to control their own emotions..and so on. I don't know what the proper meaning consists of because I don't really use the term myself.

 

[DeadManLiving]

There are various pluralities of intelligence. No one test can measure "intelligence." There's processing speed, cognitive flexibility, plasticity, and BDNF expression, it can get complicated. There are various forms of intelligence and we're still far from understanding the neuroscience behind our minds.

 

[sserafim]

It's best to take MENSA tests as they are located worldwide and the data is collated. It's very different than "random" online IQ tests plus the questions are nothing like the ones you see online (I did the UK home test and got 131 while deeply depressed, on Sertaline and at the time had the worst diet so brain function would have been deteriorated).

Edit: I did it because last year I was reading papers that linked autism and high IQ with depression so I wanted some data to see if this matched with me. Ironically it did. Great…..

Mine was professionally tested to be 120 but I wish it were higher, like 130 or something. 130 is the gifted range that qualifies for MENSA. It's also not fair that I have autism and only 120 IQ. It would be worth it to have autism if I had like 130+ IQ and was a savant. I only have Asperger's anyway, but still…autism is a major disadvantage that makes my life unnecessarily difficult

 

[LastFlowers]

Mine was professionally tested to be 120 but I wish it were higher, like 130 or something. 130 is the gifted range that qualifies for MENSA. It's also not fair that I have autism and only 120 IQ. It would be worth it to have autism if I had like 130+ IQ. I only have Asperger's anyway, but still…

Official IQ tests are a great way to either end up depressed, or an asshole.

MENSA is not a group you want to belong to, even if you give any of its proposed purposes the benefit of the doubt, it is still exclusionary and discriminatory toward something regarded as largely immutable and feeds into the notion that those with lower tested (or suspected) IQs are less than or insufficient conversationalists who have nothing to offer (when in actuality, you have more opportunity to learn something new from those unlike yourself).
Relevant to the main topic..as I think insulated groups like this can actually prevent branches of empathy from forming.

Also, keep in mind that mental distress among other (possibly idiosyncratic) factors can absolutely affect the result of an IQ test, for the worse. This isn't to make you feel better because I don't know your exact situation, it's just a fact.
It's unethical to test a subject who is under psychological stress or similar.
And in my opinion, the test and the idea behind it fails some basic moral principles on its own…more so when it's not kept as a private matter.

 

[derpyderpins]

Well..to be frank, you're going to be pretty biased as someone who knowingly has a high measured IQ. I think your assumption is a bit condescending and tbh, I would respect someone who prided themselves on being exceptionally empathetic over exceptionally intelligent, in most scenarios…even more so if it was the result of effort.
As long as they were being honest with themselves (some people claim to be "empaths" and the like, of which they are clearly not).

(It's also easier to wave the importance of something off, when you already possess that very thing since you don't have to suffer the lack of it..but yes, IQ as a measurement is a very imperfect and narrow tool.)

Perhaps the way people define "EQ" is what you take issue with, though I do think there is a distinction to be made regarding emotional/empathic acuity and other types of acumen.
Some people define emotional intelligence as being able to empathize emotionally with others..some define it as one's ability to control their own emotions..and so on. I don't know what the proper meaning consists of because I don't really use the term myself.

I think in other threads I've made it clear I didn't think IQ really matters for an individual all that much and empathy is at least as important. You're right that my issue is with the idea that empathy can be measured and given a score.

 

[Esokabat]

I am above average for intelligence and below average for empathy. I think this is due to my autism. When I listened to Steve Jobs autobiography, I realized that I have many of the bad personality traits that he had. And while he was never officially diagnosed, many experts think he was on the spectrum.I think high IQ autistic people can often be quite low on empathy, without any bad intentions however, just as a neutral general trait. To be honest, almost all high IQ autistic people I know are quite low on empathy.

 

[derpyderpins]

Mine was professionally tested to be 120 but I wish it were higher, like 130 or something. 130 is the gifted range that qualifies for MENSA. It's also not fair that I have autism and only 120 IQ. It would be worth it to have autism if I had like 130+ IQ and was a savant. I only have Asperger's anyway, but still…autism is a major disadvantage that makes my life unnecessarily difficult

I really don't think you'd notice the difference if you could add 10 IQ points right now. I have one of those higher numbers. For a long time I thought it made me better and smarter than everyone. It doesn't. I'm better at some things and worse at others like everyone else. It definitely holds me back in some ways, too, because tasks that aren't interesting to me are sooo painful. Honestly I'm probably "on the spectrum" but they probably didn't consider then that I could both be gifted and have a learning disability.

 

[escape_from_hell]

Empathy is a faculty or characteristic.
It will change the way a person that has it experiences the world.
Think of one of your basic five senses. Your hearing, touch, eyesight are all probably a big part of how you experience life and your brain works, but a deaf person, or person without touch, or blind person, are not necessarily less intelligent.

Empathy might have played a role in helping people band together in the past and work cooperatively and build a pro-social and functional world.
In the past.
In (most) of the world today, having empathy is like getting your DNA checked and finding out you have a susceptibility to cancer or any number of horrible genetic diseases.
It essentially sentences you to being a host for parasitic humans. You will be victimized by many (genetic lottery winner) humans that prey upon others by virtue of having no empathy. Taken advantage of, harmed for entertainment, suckered of your time and resources.
This includes, by the way, falling victim for any number of guilt-ridden social campaigns to modify your behaviour, get you to pay or follow 'moral leaders' that promise to have answers that fix the world and all that. Those running charities and 'fighting to make the world a better place' are just as evil as the corporate CEOs, fleecing the fuck out of gullible people and living the high life.
However, being born without empathy, a seemingly atavistic quality, is a superpower right now. The world is yours to use an abuse IF you also have high intelligence. With both low intelligence and low empathy, you'll just end up in prison.

Hard to say how long having no empathy will be a special gift. This is just a personal opinion but consider the possibility: the percentage of the population with no empathy is rising rapidly. Various reasons. Just an invitation to look around and mull it over.

 

[Forever Sleep]

I doubt it always correlates. Sociopaths, psychopaths and narcissists can be extremely clever in order to get away with what they do. Yet, they are commonly associated with a lack of empathy. Someone can't very well become a serial killer if they feel overwhelming pity for the victim. I'd imagine empathy could actually be a hindrance for someone who succeeds by manipulating and exploiting people and generally trampling on everyone to get what they want. That said, I would say I've known very intelligent people who were very emotionally in tune with others. I suspect it varies.

I wonder how much emotional intelligence is learnt too. Maybe we all do have varying capacities for it but- surely, how we develop it is going to be influenced by our upbringing. Narcissism and presumably other personality disorders develop I presume because a person has been raised a certain way. Maybe a lack of empathy is a trauma response in a way. I don't know. I'm not a psychologist. But, I don't think that relates to intelligence. I just think it's a response to a person's life experience. That's my feeling and experience anyhow. I've known both. Very clever people who care deeply about others and those who don't give a shit.

 

[xinino]

I'd imagine empathy could actually be a hindrance for someone who succeeds by manipulating and exploiting people and generally trampling on everyone to get what they want.

manipulators need cognitive empathy tho.

 

[Forever Sleep]

manipulators need cognitive empathy tho.

Yes, that's true. Maybe it's a selective type of empathy.

 

[Throwawayacc3]

Mine was professionally tested to be 120 but I wish it were higher, like 130 or something. 130 is the gifted range that qualifies for MENSA. It's also not fair that I have autism and only 120 IQ. It would be worth it to have autism if I had like 130+ IQ and was a savant. I only have Asperger's anyway, but still…autism is a major disadvantage that makes my life unnecessarily difficult

It depends how you define it. Above 130 is the top 2% on how they calculate the data. Max is 162. Anyone with savant like qualities is quite difficult just because they may be gifted in regards to music however with word association maybe not so much. I only think I got 131 due to pattern recognition and being around certain people and masking so utilising how they spoke and dealt with social situations for the word questions. I don't know but "gifted" would be above 140/145 from having a browse on it. Above 130 is top 2% of their data.

However I'd rather have resources and be low IQ than be what I have now. It's like a prison. Trying to explain corruption in pharmaceutical companies to my parents just shows the stark difference in how their brains work. A lot of the population are in the "mid-wit" category where they are smart enough to get along with everyday life but spout absolute trash or go completely ignorant to some subjects.

 

[sserafim]

Yes, that's true. Maybe it's a selective type of empathy.

There are different kinds of empathy: affective (aka emotional) and cognitive. Affective is where you feel the other person's emotions as if they were your own and cognitive is where you understand how the other person is feeling. I think that autistic people have high affective empathy but low cognitive empathy, while it's the opposite for psychopaths and sociopaths. There's also compassionate empathy. I didn't know about this one

 

[Throwawayacc3]

I really don't think you'd notice the difference if you could add 10 IQ points right now. I have one of those higher numbers. For a long time I thought it made me better and smarter than everyone. It doesn't. I'm better at some things and worse at others like everyone else. It definitely holds me back in some ways, too, because tasks that aren't interesting to me are sooo painful. Honestly I'm probably "on the spectrum" but they probably didn't consider then that I could both be gifted and have a learning disability.

If anyone is above 110 and wants to add 10 points it's possible but you would have to do a lot of problem solving activities - very difficult puzzles, pattern cognition games, reflex games, etc. Also making sure your diet and water intake is healthy because ultimately your brain is still a piece of mass and needs the required nutrients to function optimally - carbs, proteins and fats.

Ultimately it doesn't mean anything. If you were rich you could just buy a flat somewhere and live in peace without being hounded by people everyday. IQ won't change that. You need to be social in today's work in order to make money. Oh and a lot of higher ups tend to have fucked up personality types so if you aren't ruthless you stand no chance. Ironic - you have to be a cunt of a human just to get away from humans.

 

[Forever Sleep]

There are different kinds of empathy: affective (aka emotional) and cognitive. Affective is where you feel the other person's emotions as if they were your own and cognitive is where you understand how the other person is feeling. I think that autistic people have high affective empathy but low cognitive empathy, while it's the opposite for psychopaths and sociopaths. There's also compassionate empathy. I didn't know about this one

Yes, this does make a lot of sense. I thought about it more also and realised that psychopaths and narcissists must actually be able to read some emotions- they likely get their power trips from seeing people distressed.

I guess I have my own bias that emotional intelligence is always this nice thing. Empaths that love everyone and feel their pain. Not so nice for them of course but- yeah, I suppose there must be different types and different levels.

Do you think it's an inherrited thing or, do you think we learn it? I certainly think there are certain health conditions which can affect it. I've even heard of someone who's character entirely changed following a stroke.