Economic incentives of the state (or lies society tells)

[Nostalgic]

The only reason why people prevent ctb because people (construction workers, doctors, restaurant workers etc) are assets (property) of the state. Prove me wrong.

In this competitive ruthless cutthroat world where everyone looks out for themselves I refuse to believe that random strangers truly care about other people. How soon would they sharpen their knives if it was a situation between you or them. Pessimistic I know but I think that's human nature. If you truly love someone, you know when to let them go

 

[motel rooms]

I refuse to believe that random strangers truly care about other people. How soon would they sharpen their knives if it was a situation between you or them.

Some of them would let you stab them.

 

[maakies]

Yep. Death and taxes buddy. Can't collect your taxes if you're dead.

 

[Fadeawaaaay]

The reason "society" discourages suicide is an obsession with saving lives, longevity, and the perception that people Committing suicide are suffering mental illness/emotional pain and simply need love and support. There's not a secret cabal of puppet masters opposing suicide in fear of losing their wage slaves. Who are these people be? Where do they meet and work out their diabolical policies?

 

[Chinaski]

The only reason why people prevent ctb because people (construction workers, doctors, restaurant workers etc) are assets (property) of the state. Prove me wrong.

In this competitive ruthless cutthroat world where everyone looks out for themselves I refuse to believe that random strangers truly care about other people. How soon would they sharpen their knives if it was a situation between you or them. Pessimistic I know but I think that's human nature. If you truly love someone, you know when to let them go

I fundamentally disagree fwiw, l think your average human being is a fundamentally decent sort who would seek to ease human suffering when it's presented directly to them.

Ultimately, they don't prevent any of us from ctb. Only we do that.

 

[Rain_Hermit]

If humans cared for each other all that much,we wouldn't be on this forum.

 

[TheHatedOne]

I agree. We are all property of government and merely resources. Nothing more. We are born to slave away half of our life, if not more, for a system that doesn't benefit us at all, a system that thrives on misery, discrimination and pain. We are made by the same system to be at each other's throats constantly.

 

[Nostalgic]

I fundamentally disagree fwiw, l think your average human being is a fundamentally decent sort who would seek to ease human suffering when it's presented directly to them.

Ultimately, they don't prevent any of us from ctb. Only we do that.

You don't believe that people have ulterior motives i.e. virtue signalling, hero complex or pushing propaganda from the state. Im not saying there are people who do not care about other people. But most people don't and they hide behind ulterior motives. When a Japanese spokesperson was asked why their suicide rates were so high they said it was a huge problem for the state and was costing them tens of billions of dollars lost every year due to lost revenue if that person was alive. I can't remember the article I think it was on vice. Maybe I need to find it. The people who pretend to care about you sometimes don't. There is nothing wrong about that.

Who knows when AI and robots are invented, maybe people true motives are revealed and humans beings become disposable objects.

 

[Chinaski]

You don't believe that people have ulterior motives i.e. virtue signalling, hero complex or pushing propaganda from the state. Im not saying there are people who do not care about other people. But most people don't and they hide behind ulterior motives. When a Japanese spokesperson was asked why their suicide rates were so high they said it was a huge problem for the state and was costing them tens of billions of dollars lost every year due to lost revenue if that person was alive. I can't remember the article I think it was on vice. Maybe I need to find it. The people who pretend to care about you sometimes don't. There is nothing wrong about that.

Who knows when AI and robots are invented, maybe people true motives are revealed and humans beings become disposable objects.

I think most individuals, when seeing a person heading directly towards harm, will intervene instinctively. I don't disagree that those in positions of power view those at the bottom as an expendable herd of drones, as we've seen throughout the pandemic, and this reflects in the societies we adapt to in order to exist in but despite the world being an often unpleasant place the regular human instinct is to prevent harm coming to another person.

There's a recurring chat on here about how society is selfish for not killing us on demand and tbh l take the opposite view, if suicide were to become officially supported and enabled in all cases this is not a compassionate society, this is a society where the powerful seek to cull the weaker members, and the individuals on here who argue for this are imo the ones being selfish in doing so. "Virtue signallers" with "saviour complexes" aren't the ones preventing me from successfully ctb. I am.

 

[Onthe29th]

Even being a prisoner is all a part of the system. Prisoners are usually made to work and they made almost nothing doing what they do. That's probably why they throw mentally Ill people in prison with everyone else and let them get bullied and taken advantage of. It's so fucked up.

 

[Grav]

I think most individuals, when seeing a person heading directly towards harm, will intervene instinctively.

I don't believe most people care about anyone but immediate family, although there are a few exceptions. Regular schmoes may intervene as long as they stand to lose nothing, but if it's a fight for limited resources the gloves will come off. I think the constant refrain that suicide is bad is only to keep up the front that the current society is worth being in. That's why mental illness chatter is going to be just that. To actually address why people want to ctb when they see a land of plenty means challenging their view, how they live, and is the society for the benefit of all.

 

[Nostalgic]

I think most individuals, when seeing a person heading directly towards harm, will intervene instinctively. I don't disagree that those in positions of power view those at the bottom as an expendable herd of drones, as we've seen throughout the pandemic, and this reflects in the societies we adapt to in order to exist in but despite the world being an often unpleasant place the regular human instinct is to prevent harm coming to another person.

There's a recurring chat on here about how society is selfish for not killing us on demand and tbh l take the opposite view, if suicide were to become officially supported and enabled in all cases this is not a compassionate society, this is a society where the powerful seek to cull the weaker members, and the individuals on here who argue for this are imo the ones being selfish in doing so. "Virtue signallers" with "saviour complexes" aren't the ones preventing me from successfully ctb. I am.

I guess we can agree to disagree. I think you are an optimist while I tend to veer towards seeing the worser side of humanity. Neither is good or bad but I tend to want to see the world for what it is no matter how ugly or painful reality is. I respect your opinion but I disagree with some points. Assuming that life is worth living no matter the cost or the pain or the suffering. That people will always love you when you have no friends or family to speak off. That we are not all alone in this world. This world has and always has been about the survival of the fittest. Those who are well adapted survive and those who are not perish. A philosopher named Jiddu Krishnamurti once said "it is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." I think people should always have a choice. I don't believe in metal illness. Some people have genuine illnesses like schizophrenia or bpd but depression as an illness is bs. Oh im sad so that means I am mentally ill and need to be locked up in a mental asylum. If a mother loses both her children in a car accident of course she is going to be sad is she going to be happy? Does that mean she is insane and has mental illness, because that is what mental illness is, supposed insanity and that person has to be locked up. I think psychiatry nowadays has become a pseudo science.

I think if people know the consequences to their actions and are held responsible they should always have the choice to choose. Doing otherwise means there is an ulterior motive because aren't we not free men and women. Are we slaves or serfs working on a plantation farms. A serf can't commit suicide because he or she is owned by the state. Their death would mean loss of revenue. In the same way if you was a farmer would you allow your cow to commit suicide. You would force food down their throats and keep on milking them. Force sperm in them so they can reproduce and do the same to their offspring. kill their children and sell their bodies for beef. The cow mother becomes depressed and the cycle starts all over again with children. Some people say its selfish to not have children but I thinks sometimes its selfish to bring children into this world especially when you don't have the means to take care of them or you abuse them.

 

[FuneralCry]

Most people do not care unless it directly affects themselves and of course we are all selfish. We are just slaves to the society and they need to keep us alive so they have workers, you are right.

 

[Chinaski]

I'm certainly not an optimist, l can assure you. I also don't rate our species particularly highly. I just don't think I'm being kept alive by an invisible force for purely economic reasons, my choice exists and is not impeded, it's up to me to take it.

 

[orange]

l think your average human being is a fundamentally decent sort who would seek to ease human suffering when it's presented directly to them.

Are you for real? Are we living in the same timeline rn? People will inflict as much suffering on others as they are allowed. And if they can't, they'll do it on animals.

 

[Chinaski]

Are you for real? Are we living in the same timeline rn? People will inflict as much suffering on others as they are allowed. And if they can't, they'll do it on animals.

Yeah I'm for real, your average person might be an asshole but is unlikely to be an actual sadist, nor are they likely to watch someone actively harm themselves without instinctively feeling the need to assist in some way.

If someone collapses in the street, your average person *will ring an ambulance* for example, there's nothing controversial in anything I'm saying here surely.

 

[orange]

Yeah I'm for real, your average person might be an asshole but is unlikely to be an actual sadist, nor are they likely to watch someone actively harm themselves without instinctively feeling the need to assist in some way.

If someone collapses in the street, your average person *will ring an ambulance* for example, there's nothing controversial in anything I'm saying here surely.

There are entire online communities dedicated to harassing mentally ill people who may or may not be harming themselves. Look up eugenia cooney, nicocado avocado, chris chandler... not to mention the joy people take in celebrity scandals, specially career ending ones. So much content is based around enjoying other people's suffering, I honestly don't know what to say.

Actually your average person, at least in the city, will not ring an ambulance if you collapse. Look up bystander effect. Not that they'd enjoy seeing you have a stroke on the street, but if they can avoid being bothered by it, they will.

We are social creatures in an evolutionary sense, we are as nice to eachother as we can benefit from it, and as cruel to eachother as we can afford.

 

[Chinaski]

Yeah l know what "bystander effect" is without having to look it up but thank you for the advice.

I repeat, there are a lot of bad people, l do not rate our species particularly highly, yet the *average* person would seek to help before seeking to harm. This is such an uncontroversial view I'm amazed it's getting this weird pushback.

 

[orange]

You are amazed that is a controversial opinion in a suicide forum? aight

Well actually the suicide forum part is unnecessary. I have literally never heard anybody say humans are good on average lol

Yeah l know what "bystander effect" is without having to look it up but thank you for the advice.

I repeat, there are a lot of bad people, l do not rate our species particularly highly, yet the *average* person would seek to help before seeking to harm. This is such an uncontroversial view I'm amazed it's getting this weird pushback.

 

[YourNeighbor]

Are you for real? Are we living in the same timeline rn? People will inflict as much suffering on others as they are allowed. And if they can't, they'll do it on animals.

The members of this forum do not represent the common human experience. Those considering suicide are a small subset of humanity, who have a disproportionate experience with the worst side of people.

 

[Chinaski]

You are amazed that is a controversial opinion in a suicide forum? aight

Well actually the suicide forum part is unnecessary. I have literally never heard anybody say humans are good on average lol

Yeah l dunno why THIS IS A SUICIDE FORUM is so frequently used as a backstop in any discussion on here, the nature of this forum should not subvert reality to the point where "most people I've met are not sadistic, even the assholes" is considered a weird viewpoint.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

There's a recurring chat on here about how society is selfish for not killing us on demand and tbh l take the opposite view, if suicide were to become officially supported and enabled in all cases this is not a compassionate society, this is a society where the powerful seek to cull the weaker members, and the individuals on here who argue for this are imo the ones being selfish in doing so. "Virtue signallers" with "saviour complexes" aren't the ones preventing me from successfully ctb. I am.

I think this stems from frustration. I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't think suicide should be enabled, but if the help available is not going to adapt and up its game then the state should turn its head and look away when people purchase certain things to commit suicide with. Thats the difference between making something legal and decriminalizing it.

if suicide were to become officially supported and enabled in all cases this is not a compassionate society, this is a society where the powerful seek to cull the weaker members

This is already the case to a good degree, and it will only get worse.

Yeah I'm for real, your average person might be an asshole but is unlikely to be an actual sadist, nor are they likely to watch someone actively harm themselves without instinctively feeling the need to assist in some way.

If someone collapses in the street, your average person *will ring an ambulance* for example, there's nothing controversial in anything I'm saying here surely.

I agree with this. I don't think most people are sadists, I think most people are dumb, apathetic, and prone to fear, but not sadistic.

There are entire online communities dedicated to harassing mentally ill people who may or may not be harming themselves. Look up eugenia cooney, nicocado avocado, chris chandler... not to mention the joy people take in celebrity scandals, specially career ending ones. So much content is based around enjoying other people's suffering, I honestly don't know what to say.

Actually your average person, at least in the city, will not ring an ambulance if you collapse. Look up bystander effect. Not that they'd enjoy seeing you have a stroke on the street, but if they can avoid being bothered by it, they will.

We are social creatures in an evolutionary sense, we are as nice to eachother as we can benefit from it, and as cruel to eachother as we can afford.

Consider a couple of things, my friend. First off the internet is very special in that people with common interests can reach one another faster than ever before in history. Take for example this forum right here. Are most people suicidal? No. A LOT are, but nowhere near most. But if you were to use this forum as a sample, you'd naturally think a lot more people are suicidal, because thats what brought us here. Same goes with those disgusting communities that mess with broken people. Second, human beings are not meant to live in cities. Its an extremely unnatural environment that is really, really bad for both physical and mental health. The bystander effect is a symptom, not the disease.

 

[Chinaski]

I think this stems from frustration. I can't speak for anyone but myself. I don't think suicide should be enabled, but if the help available is not going to adapt and up its game then the state should turn its head and look away when people purchase certain things to commit suicide with. Thats the difference between making something legal and decriminalizing it.

This is already the case to a good degree, and it will only get worse.

I agree with this. I don't think most people are sadists, I think most people are dumb, apathetic, and prone to fear, but not sadistic.

Yeah l agree it comes from frustration but there's a regular background hum on here about how the greatest evil society perpetrates upon is withholding an on-demand, no-questions-asked lethal injection by a physician, l do find this to be an adolescent and unrealistic view of suicide and we could do with being more honest about what is holding us back - being frustrated because nobody will kill us is something l can understand but it's absolutely dishonest thinking imo.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Yeah l agree it comes from frustration but there's a regular background hum on here about how the greatest evil society perpetrates upon is withholding an on-demand, no-questions-asked lethal injection by a physician, l do find this to be an adolescent and unrealistic view of suicide and we could do with being more honest about what is holding us back - being frustrated because nobody will kill us is something l can understand but it's absolutely dishonest thinking imo.

Well yeah, if you're not exaggerating, that line of thinking is plain silly. I'm gonna play devil's advocate again and say that the people who think that way are having really bad tunnelvision from the pain of their predicaments.

 

[Superdeterminist]

Some of the opposition to suicide also originates in the notion of the 'sanctity of life' inherent to many religions, namely the Abrahamic. Adherents believe we wrongly play god by deciding our own deaths. It is frustrating to me.

 

[Nostalgic]

nobody is here saying that physicians should be able kill them. Everybody should have a choice to do what they feel is best for them if we truly live in a free society which we clearly do not. I think we are slightly veering of topic. I don't think everybody is bad but not everyone lives in first world countries where there are lots of resources and food to go around. im not saying everyone is bad or sadistic but I question the purity of the motives of people who say they are good and don't have ulterior motives for doing the things and saying the things that they do. Everyone is accountable and responsible for their own actions. Whereas I don't feel the need to force my own ideals and way of life onto other people. Even if I disagree with there point of view. I invite them to debate with me and try to change mine if I am wrong. If I am wrong I want to be put right and I love looking at views that are contrary to my own because I like to learn new things.

Yeah l agree it comes from frustration but there's a regular background hum on here about how the greatest evil society perpetrates upon is withholding an on-demand, no-questions-asked lethal injection by a physician, l do find this to be an adolescent and unrealistic view of suicide and we could do with being more honest about what is holding us back - being frustrated because nobody will kill us is something l can understand but it's absolutely dishonest thinking imo.

I think you are cherrypicking and making your own assumptions about the people here. Have you asked each and everyone of them how they thought and what they feel? Do you do a survey? No. And what do you think is holding us back? Nobody is asking anyone to kill anyone. Life isn't Disneyland, sometimes there is no happy ending. It just ends, sometimes it ends horribly. Thats it. Some people are raped, some people lose loved ones. Some people continue on living even though they do not want to because society or people tell them to keep on going. Some people continue on living even though they have no reason why they keep on doing it. Sometimes these are due to animal instincts and not necessarily due to a higher power but I digress. I am not trying to convert anyone. I just wanted to talk about it.

 

[Chinaski]

Everybody does have the choice. We can all ctb today, or we can not ctb at all.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

but I question the purity of the motives of people who say they are good and don't have ulterior motives for doing the things and saying the things that they do.

As you should. Someone who says they don't have ulterior motives is either naive, lying, or a unicorn.

 

[Nostalgic]

Thats the point I am making, not everyone has a choice. Not everyone gets a choice. If they do they are locked up forcibly drugged. In some countries its illegal. In North Korea they punish families. I once had someone tell me that you see what someone truly is when the contents of their character is tested, under bad times not good. Look at of the Soviet Union under Stalin during the famine when food was scarce. People are not as good as you think. I don't blame people for the decisions that they make. I know that there is a reason why they choose what they choose. Who's to say in another life under the exact same conditions I wouldn't turn out exactly how they did.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

A terrible conundrum, isn't it? Times are awful, but you actually find out who the good and the strong are; times are great, and you have no real way of knowing who will stand by you when shit hits the fan.