fleetingnight

fleetingnight

incapable of shutting up
May 2, 2024
612
It's valid if others feel differently about it, but if someone said it to me, it's be counterproductive. It'd make me want to do it even more, just to prove that I have free will and no one can control me.
 
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Grav

Grav

Wizard
Jul 26, 2020
660
I know people who believe their life is not their's to take, not that they usually think of taking their own life. I'm sure I fit into that group without directly stating it: not ctb'ing when my kid was young (still a bit of a pull), taking care of my mother. Some people feel this way towards pets. If you asked them they'd state it differently but there's something that keeps them here. That's how I interpret his phrase, not in a religious sense although that is certainly a case for some people. But not everybody has those ties so it doesn't apply universally as a stop on hitting the self-checkout lane.
 
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acephale

acephale

Miroir
May 12, 2024
39
why isn't it reasonable to ask why we, as sentient creatures have been made sentient and are being put through suffering? Why is that non sensical? You can say it's not our place to ask. We don't have the right to question God. That's not the same thing as it not making sense to ask
It's not that you don't have right to ask but there's no point of it ,my point is religion is old nonsense, your attempt to rationalize it will failed because people who created it tried to explain the world through their limited percpective. You can't understand the incomprehensible.
If obedience is the most prized attribute, why create us so we can disobey? I think God is in to some weird sado-masochism shit.
God is perspective, humans saw stones, astronomical objects, abstract Ideas and nature as gods. The traditional religions "Islam and Christianity" became more like slavery tools to adjust people to society. They lost their holiness that if they had some of it in first place. To me disobedience and embracement of the unconventional as holy is liberation of individual minds from reason.
 
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leavingthesoultrap

leavingthesoultrap

(ᴗ_ ᴗ。)
Nov 25, 2023
1,212
He's just a clueless boomer
 
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Dusk till dawn

Dusk till dawn

Student
Sep 7, 2018
167
One of the dumbest reasons, i'm a hardcore atheist, i've been indoctrinated since childhood into religious beliefs and for a long time i was a extremist, eventually i figured out religion is a fraud, i'm very certain that my life is mine to take, and everyone's life is their own to take, this is nothing but a pathetic attempt to scare you into thinking maybe eternal hell awaits you, the whole thing preys on your fears of hell that comes as a result of indoctrination since childhood, which is DIGUSTING
 
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Ironborn

Ironborn

Specialist
Jan 29, 2024
366
I try to stay as far away from "god botherers" as possible.
All their arguments are circular and they are masters of word salad.
"How do you know god exists?"
"Because the bible says so.'
Proceeds to recite and list off a dozen passages from the bible.
"How does that prove anything?"
"Because it's in the bible."

There is no winning with them, they also claim objective morality exists because of god and without him morality is relative.
No shit Sherlock, morality is absolutely relative to where in the world you come from and the society you grow up in.
Also if the only reason you are a good person and follow the law is because of sky daddy I suspect you are not a very good person to begin with.
 
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Pluto

Pluto

Meowing to go out
Dec 27, 2020
3,932
Our lives belong to Jordan B. Peterson.
 
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EvisceratedJester

EvisceratedJester

|| What Else Could I Be But a Jester ||
Oct 21, 2023
3,301
I don't think it is unforgivable sin in Christianity, because Jesus' sacrifice on the cross offers forgiveness for all sins for those who believe in him, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In islam, if somebody commits suicide they have to go to hell to purify themselves from it then go to heaven, the only unforgivable sin is disbelief in Allah.

'Whoever throws himself from a mountain and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell throwing himself eternally therein forever abiding. And whoever ingests poison and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell eternally ingesting the poison by his hand therein forever abiding. And whoever kills himself with an iron implement, will be in the fire of Hell eternally stabbing himself in his stomach with his own hand therein forever abiding.' (Sahih al-Bukhari, 5778).

Forever implies just for long time not enternity.

Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also said, "If somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Judgment" (Sahih Bukhari)

That's explain why Muslims don't commit suicide as much as the western men even tho their lives are unfair in dictatorial counties.
Actually, it's important to note that suicides in Islamic majority countries tend to go underreported or are misrepresented as other things, such as death from an accident, meaning that we don't know for sure if Muslims really do ctb less on average or not.
 
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SilentSadness

SilentSadness

Vultures circle overhead
Feb 28, 2023
1,070
I don't see how my life could be "not mine to take", even if there was a higher power it makes no difference. Also that quote about suicidal people burning in hell is so cruel, can you imagine saying that about someone who died.
 
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pthnrdnojvsc

pthnrdnojvsc

Extreme Pain is much worse than people know
Aug 12, 2019
2,576
This consciousness grew only in this brain in my skull.

Only I can suffer the unbearable pain my body and my brain can inflict on my consciousness.

Only I know my suffering and situations.

This life of mine torture prison of course I have the right to get rid of this abomination
 
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Z-A

Z-A

Let me go
Mar 3, 2024
329
JP can yap for 30 minutes straight and convince you absolutely nothing.
 
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maneose

maneose

i’ll stop stabbing you when you stop screaming
Sep 10, 2023
58
I kinda like the quote but probably not for the reason others would say. For quite a while I've fantasized about getting murdered, daydreaming of walking out at night and getting kidnapped and all that stuff. So if it is set in stone that my life is "not for mine to take" that's fine by me as long as someone else takes it for me lol.
 
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R

returntothevoid

Student
Jul 20, 2023
100
As usual Jordan P spouts nonsense as a pseudo intellectual twat.
 
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crystal_meth97

crystal_meth97

Nie mam zamiaru się poddać
May 1, 2024
155
I disagree. If you are religious, sure, you are going to believe your life is not yours to take because it's a gift, given to you by a higher power, no matter how you call it. Your life certainly doesn't belong to your loved ones, I find this guilt-tripping and it doesn't sit well with me honestly. So since I'm not religious, I feel free to CTB, these arguments don't stop me. I'm not planning to do it in the near future, but theoretically, nothing like a moral stance would stop me. I haven't been brought here with my consent, so at least I can exit when I want.
 
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B

BardBarrie

Specialist
Mar 17, 2024
300
Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people

Jordan Peterson certainly assumed his life was his own, when he completely risked it — as well as his health — by flying to Russia to get put in a medically-induced coma in order to help him overcome a benzodiazapine addiction he got himself into.

These people are always the biggest hypocrites.

A person's life is their own, the only exception — in my opinion — is if one has young children/dependants who rely upon them; you have a duty of care to those under your guardianship/custody.

Other than that, your life is yours to take. Disregard grifters like Jordan Peterson and religious fundamentalists.
I don't think it is unforgivable sin in Christianity, because Jesus' sacrifice on the cross offers forgiveness for all sins for those who believe in him, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In islam, if somebody commits suicide they have to go to hell to purify themselves from it then go to heaven, the only unforgivable sin is disbelief in Allah.

'Whoever throws himself from a mountain and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell throwing himself eternally therein forever abiding. And whoever ingests poison and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell eternally ingesting the poison by his hand therein forever abiding. And whoever kills himself with an iron implement, will be in the fire of Hell eternally stabbing himself in his stomach with his own hand therein forever abiding.' (Sahih al-Bukhari, 5778).

Forever implies just for long time not enternity.

Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also said, "If somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Judgment" (Sahih Bukhari)

That's explain why Muslims don't commit suicide as much as the western men even tho their lives are unfair in dictatorial counties.

LOL Islam has a massive problem with suicide, usually involving explosives/attacks.
The perpetrators all seem to believe they'll be fast-tracked straight to Jannah with their Houris for committing suicide for Jihad.
 
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T

ThisGameIsOverrated

I need RCs
May 6, 2024
174
People just say anything to rationalise pro-life mentality. Dude's survival instinct is latching onto a reason to live and he treats it like gospel, typical pro-life behaviour.
 
A

Artemisia

Experienced
May 24, 2024
237
Even if a couple of people would truly miss me for a while (time numbs emotional suffering for the vast majority of people), the idea that they own my life is absolutely disgusting to me.
I'm an individualist, a loner by nature. Sure there are people I like and whose company I occasionally enjoy(ed), but in no way do they have a saying in how I should live or die. I would never dare tell others how to go about their lives (have a friendly discussion is one thing, telling them how to live, guilt trip them, etc is definitely another) and something as definitive as their deaths. I demand the same in regards to me. If I had a loved one considering ctb, I'd try to understand why, try to help solve the root cause and, in the end, if there was nothing else that could be done, with a lot of sadness but I'd be there for their ending. I don't expect, I demand the same from those who are close to me. If you don't see it that way, if you think my life doesn't belong to me, you'll never be close to me and therefore I couldn't care less about your opinion.
 
C

cosmic-freedom

Student
Mar 18, 2024
160
I would say stuff like this if I was born male and in a first world country.
 
Coconut blue

Coconut blue

Student
May 13, 2024
161
Imma get hate for having this unpopular opinion but JBP is garbage 🚮 even if my life isn't mine to take how r u gonna punish me? If you call being forced into treatment after a botched attempt punishment, fine. But id say you're only punishing not succeeding with the attempt, not the actual act of suicide.
 
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Linda

Linda

Member
Jul 30, 2020
1,685
Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people
I think it's a load of nonsense. (More forceful words than "nonsense" come to mind, but I don't want to lower the tone of this forum.) Like everything to do with religion.
 
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DOKTOR_G'HUL

DOKTOR_G'HUL

Member
Mar 16, 2024
25
...anyone saying that this religion or that one owns me in any way, or has any intent for me, any higher purpose, or will punish me if I offend that god or gods in any manner, is as foolish as saying that Garfield the cat will make a bad, lame joke if I don't cook his lasagna well. All religions are bad Xeroxes of far older beliefs , which were themselves fictions that humans told each other to explain what they did not know in a way that gave them power and influence. I am at the wheel of my life, and it is my choice where I drive it. No. One. Else. I will not choose what I do or do not do based on how it will influence others. I have no interest in what they think, regardless of who "they" turn out to be. I walk my path. I choose where it ends. End of line.
 
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Shimidori

Shimidori

make me sad
Dec 22, 2023
39
I would debate though that yeah, my life is mine to take. If I'm not allowed to decide how and when to end it, is it truly my life? Or is it someone else's?

Others can give their opinion, but if I am rejecting their advances to stop me, they should know that, at the end of the day, this life belongs to me and nobody else, and I'm the sole judge of what happens to it.
 
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cali22♡

cali22♡

Selfharm Specialist♡
Nov 11, 2023
264
Everyone has their own life in their hands


Make something of it
 
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author

author

they/them
Jul 13, 2021
76
I'm not even suicidal at the moment, like I'm doing pretty alright, and yet "your life is not yours to take" is still super upsetting. I know others already said it, but that feels like "think about how much you'll hurt your loved ones" repackaged. It makes me feel trapped - and makes me want to prove my own free will by dying anyway. It's invalidating at best.

If I can choose to live, I can choose to die. It's not fair to be at the whims of other people/a higher power, and I won't be held to that. If you want to be, good for you - everyone has different reasons to live and different reasons to die. Your loved ones being hurt by your decision shouldn't negate the pain that brought you to that decision, and any god worth worshipping would understand our suffering and not punish us for taking our own lives to escape.

We are in control of our lives just as much as we are our deaths. Sometimes we die randomly, sometimes random things in life happen that we can't control - but when we do have a choice, in both life and death, we should be allowed to make it.
 
MatrixPrisoner

MatrixPrisoner

Enlightened
Jul 8, 2023
1,514
If this isn't my life, then someone else needs to live it and suffer for me.
 
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alicia

alicia

worn down, and fraying at the edges
Apr 10, 2023
13
What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people
Even as someone who has come to the conclusion that in my case my life isn't my own to take (at least not right now) because of my responsibilities to others (sigh), I still think that quote is invalidating. Ultimately our lives are our own and we are allowed to make our own choices about suicide. Peterson's framing is condescending and manipulative, and it takes away agency. I hate it when other people lecture me on my "responsibilities". I am already aware of the fact that people depend on me, and I sure as hell don't need idiots like Peterson rubbing salt in an open wound.
 
ASp4E

ASp4E

Member
May 23, 2024
58
I guess this lines up with the anti-choice sentiment of denying your right to die. Was feeling like writing a thread ranting about how if you have no right to die, then that implies your life is not your own, or something along those lines. But evidently some are brazen enough to admit it outright. Hilarious.

But seriously, this general idea is absolutely infuriating. The nature of life brings about so much inevitable suffering, and so many horrible ideas like slavery and ownership of someone else's life. Trying to appeal to someone's empathy by explaining your suffering is only going to go so far. When people don't care about you, and see you as their resource to benefit from, empathy is not likely to do shit. But even if they aren't consciously aware of it, life has no doubt ingrained this feeling of loss in people who do empathize with you, for it is indeed often a loss of resources and so a detriment to genetic fitness. I suppose it also makes sense then why some who have "recovered" from their suicidal ideation do a 180 and try to attack this forum. There's little to no evolutionary benefit from empathizing and agreeing with people when you don't get any benefit through that agreement. So now you might be back to not wanting to lose resources, with the aforementioned anti-choice view being innately encouraged.

Evolution, the nature of life, and existence. I despise them all and wish they never existed.

(PS Please let me know if you believe anything here is wrong.)
 
cloud99

cloud99

Member
May 29, 2024
22
I used to have a lot of time for JP years ago. I thought some of his lectures on philosophy and personality were really interesting. Then he got really popular, then he got really sick (I think he got addicted to xanax or something) and then his daughter had him on some kind of meat only diet... Now I feel like he just says things for controversy and attention. It pays the bills.

Another example of the social media viral vortex sucking up anything that might actually provide some decent insight and regurgitating click bait nonsense. Or maybe it was the xanax that f#@!&d him up. Or lack of vegetables. Idk. Shame though.
 
E

Esokabat

Specialist
Apr 22, 2024
390
I know most people here don't believe in the continuation of consciousness, and I am not talking to those people here. Really.
Just skip this post.
For those that can entertain the continuation of consciousness, I will mention something here. I have studied thousands of NDEs in 4 different languages and one of the most common scenario that appears in NDEs, mind you even in the NDEs of prior atheists, is as follows, just a high-level summary:

Person that just died (PTJD): Oh, wow, I am HOME, I feel pure love, I remember this place, this is HOME, this is incredible, the love, the peace, this is my real home.

Other loving entity (OLE): you cannot stay

PTJD: But I am at HOME, I love it here, I want to stay.

OLE: you cannot stay, you have to go back.

PTJD: I don't want to go back .It is horrible there. So much pain. So much suffering. I am finally HOME. I am staying here.

OLE: You cannot stay, you have to go back. You have a purpose.

PTJD: I am not going back. You cannot make me go back. I refuse to go back. It will be all right, my family will be all right, my kids will be all right. I am staying. I will not go back. I refuse.

OLE: You have a purpose. You have agreed to it. You have chosen this.

PTJD: I have not agreed to anything. When did I agree to it? I don't agree to go back. I will stay.

OLE: You have a purpose. You agreed to it prior to birth. You have to go back.

PTJD: I cannot. I will not fit into that body any longer. I am so expanded now. That body is so tiny, it cannot house me.

OLE: You will be back here soon enough and we will be waiting for you here.

PTJD's body is being sucked back into the body, that feels like a cold, small wet-suit, way too small, way too uncomfortable.

Some variation of the above happened thousands of times, people with all religions, people with no religion, people from all cultures and countries, and yes, to militarist atheists too.
I think the only time they don't try to send you back when the physical body no longer is capable to sustain life.
And just for completeness, some people are given a choice to go back or stay. But that seems to be the minority. Most people argue their heart out and are sent back anyway against their will. Including people with kids, happy life, loving husband or wife, children, overall happy life.
I think our Soul is not our current physical persona. Out Soul sometimes agrees to complete a certain purpose, which our current temporary persona will not remember but our Soul does.

Many people think that our current physical personality is same as our Soul, but in fact at the time of death, both the physical body, and the physical persona, including our Ego, dies.
So I think the quote "not yours to take" is often true from the physical persona perspective. Our soul might have made a pre-birth commitment, on its own free choice, that our physical persona is not aware.
I know it is hard to believe for many people that we are part of something much bigger than what we can comprehend. There can be situations when the physical persona wants to exit, and the Soul tries to keep its pre-birth commitment. Our consciousness is bigger than what our physical brain can hold or what our physical temporary persona can comprehend. If the Soul is the actor in a theater performance, then the persona that the actor plays is our physical persona and the costume is our physical body. The Soul will shed both after CTB as both of those just a tool for a temporary learning assignment called earthly life.

Of course, all of the above also would mean that our Soul is not a victim, and we chose this. And I know this is very hard for most people to accept. Victimhood is like a pacifier to a kid. You take away and you feel like you are left with nothing.
Our physical brain cannot know, nor comprehend, the purpose of the Soul and the purpose of a lifetime. Once we detach from the physical body, we will remember or rather know immediately and forget it once more once we return to the body.
And I also think that some people die and not allowed to remember anything once they come back. If remembering would interfere with the completion of their purpose, they will not remember anything, it will be completely wiped.
What I described above is extremely common.
Those that don't believe in the continuation of consciousness will say that this is a hallucination of the dying brain.
It is peculiar that thousands of people hallucinate a passionate debate with a loving entity, begging not to come back to physical life and something about an uncompleted purpose.
Mass hallucination? I don't think so.

These stories have been collected since Plato's time so they are also not new.

People don't hallucinate this scenario during drugs, or dreams or mental illness.

It happens only during clinical death (accidents, medical emergencies)

So maybe under some circumstances the quote in fact correct.
We are prt of much bigger than we can imagine.
Us analyzing this scenario with such limited amount of information is like an ant trying to understand physics. It is simply impossible. Certain information will not be available to us while in the physical form, operating from our limited physical brain.

(Also, this thread has so much hate, it took me several days contemplating if I even want to share this. It almost feels like a thread about US politics, people operating from hate on all sides. JP I think is a genuine person and even if I don't agree with many things he says, I do appreciate him being a genuine human being, honest, authentic, searching for meaning in the world and struggling with severe depression and benzo withdrawal, having a severely ill daughter in her childhood, his wife going through cancer, him going into induced Coma in a hospital in Russia. I really don't understand what all this hate about. He has opinions. Everyone has them. He resonates with a lot of people and don't resonate with others. Why the hate?)
 

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