“Don’t be so sure your life is yours to take”

[sserafim]

Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people

 

[Lady Laudanum]

If it's not mine to take then whose is it to take? My abusive ex? My parents? A mass shooter who finally snaps and goes on a rampage? Don't all the other options make no sense at all?

 

[EyesOfNight]

Absolute nonsense. If my life isn't for me to take then I must be a slave.
I believe the whole higher power nonsense is just one of those aspects where J.P. is just showing his coping mechanisms for his own trauma. He must have wanted to CTB in the past and used that higher power argument to talk himself out of it.

 

[EmptyHeaded]

That's just "Think about the suffering you will cause your loved ones" worded differently.
Not much different from "Suicide is selfish".

 

[cursedbynature64]

My life belongs to me and me only. My reasons for still being alive, as I imagine it is for some number of other people who wish they weren't, is the feeling of guilt about who and what I'd be leaving behind. Regardless of whether that guilt is warranted or not, my life still belongs to me and me only, and it is ultimately solely my decision on what I want to do with it, including ending it.

 

[sserafim]

That's just "Think about the suffering you will cause your loved ones" worded differently.
Not much different from "Suicide is selfish".

He already said that as the first reason but how he implies that our lives are not our own and don't belong to ourselves infuriates me. I *do* own myself because I *am* myself, and I should have the right to die when I want to

 

[ladylazarus4]

I think that's silly. It makes me angry; I don't belong to anyone else. No one has to suffer as *me* (if that makes sense), so why should I be obligated to stay for them? Also, I'm not religious so I don't think I owe anything to a higher power, idk.

 

[sserafim]

I think that's silly. It makes me angry; I don't belong to anyone else. No one has to suffer as *me* (if that makes sense), so why should I be obligated to stay for them? Also, I'm not religious so I don't think I owe anything to a higher power, idk.

Ikr. The inherent assumption that I owe it someone or something to stay alive makes me mad. I don't have an obligation to live for anyone or anything else but myself. I'm not religious either. I'm born and raised atheist and I don't believe in a higher power. I believe in bodily autonomy and that we should all have freedom and control over our own bodies, like the right to die and be allowed euthanasia if we wish

 

[divinemistress36]

If our soul chose to come here it should be up to us when to leave

 

[sserafim]

If our soul chose to come here it should be up to us when leave to

I agree. Btw, I wonder if suicide is in my life plan. I've always felt like I was meant to die young and by my own hand

 

[EmptyHeaded]

He already said that as the first reason but how he implies that our lives are not our own and don't belong to ourselves infuriates me. I *do* own myself because I *am* myself, and I should have the right to die when I want to

It's obviously coming from a religious point of view in his case.
"Your life belongs to the Lord" or something like that.

 

[Scythe]

I find it vile and disgusting, if I do not own my life who does? Are we all slaves to the government? This make it sounds like we are possessions of our loved ones and honestly, even if it isn't our life to take. Why tf should I give a shit about that? These ppl who are writing about suicide prevention rlly got their head stuck up their ass sometimes.

 

[akwa]

Well he does an excellent job at antagonizing the non-religious and those who are not close with their families lol

 

[Beyond_Repair]

Jordan Peterson is a nutjob sellout. I wouldn't give anything he says a second thought

Aside from that though, who would our lives belong to aside from ourselves? Capitalism?

 

[cowboypants]

Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other peopleHe's a controversial guy. And no one is a definite authority on my life maybe my family. But even we aren't on good terms

He also has said that "women wear makeup to be sexually provocative". hehe

 

[acephale]

He used one of many religious arguments, to rob people from themselves, I believe that religion is beautiful thing which gives human a sense of divinity in things, but it got distorted by many like peterson Where he hold static view about human life, and try to use religion as organizational tool. Here my critique

1.Traditional religions suppress human experiences that don't fit neatly into their doctrines. This includes sexuality, death, and violence which are inherent to the human condition.
2.Traditional religion tries to control and make sense of the divine, which is fundamentally excessive and uncontrollable. This robs religious experience of its raw power and mystery.
3.Traditional religions promote continuity and order, whereas human existence is characterized by discontinuity and rupture. Religious structures try to smooth over these ruptures, hindering a true encounter with the divine.

He also has said that "women wear makeup to be sexually provocative". hehe

Yes, he also refused to use LGBTQ's pronouns, I think he aligns more with conservatives

 

[not-2-b-the-answer]

Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourselfas a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people

It pisses me off !!! Who is he to say that ??? I just skimmed through his wiki page.
Most of us poor people never get the chance to go to Harvard.
Frak him and his opinions !!!!!

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people

It sounds like he's talking as if we are disciples of God. Suicide is supposed to be the only unforgiven sin to my understanding. So pedos, rapists, murderers, etc are okay, if they are saved, but literally god forbid you take your own life... I'll take my chances...

 

[J&L383]

Agreed. J.P. is not worth another 5 minutes on, IMHO.

 

[acephale]

It sounds like he's talking as if we are disciples of God. Suicide is supposed to be the only unforgiven sin to my understanding. So pedos, rapists, murderers, etc are okay, if they are saved, but literally god forbid you take your own life. I'll take my chances...

I don't think it is unforgivable sin in Christianity, because Jesus' sacrifice on the cross offers forgiveness for all sins for those who believe in him, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In islam, if somebody commits suicide they have to go to hell to purify themselves from it then go to heaven, the only unforgivable sin is disbelief in Allah.

'Whoever throws himself from a mountain and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell throwing himself eternally therein forever abiding. And whoever ingests poison and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell eternally ingesting the poison by his hand therein forever abiding. And whoever kills himself with an iron implement, will be in the fire of Hell eternally stabbing himself in his stomach with his own hand therein forever abiding.' (Sahih al-Bukhari, 5778).

Forever implies just for long time not enternity.

Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also said, "If somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Judgment" (Sahih Bukhari)

That's explain why Muslims don't commit suicide as much as the western men even tho their lives are unfair in dictatorial counties.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

I don't think it is unforgivable sin in Christianity, because Jesus' sacrifice on the cross offers forgiveness for all sins for those who believe in him, the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit.

In islam, if somebody commits suicide they have to go to hell to purify themselves from it then go to heaven, the only unforgivable sin is disbelief in Allah.

'Whoever throws himself from a mountain and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell throwing himself eternally therein forever abiding. And whoever ingests poison and thus kills himself, will be in the fire of Hell eternally ingesting the poison by his hand therein forever abiding. And whoever kills himself with an iron implement, will be in the fire of Hell eternally stabbing himself in his stomach with his own hand therein forever abiding.' (Sahih al-Bukhari, 5778).

Forever implies just for long time not enternity.

Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) also said, "If somebody commits suicide with anything in this world, he will be tortured with that very thing on the Day of Judgment" (Sahih Bukhari)

That's explain why Muslims don't commit suicide as much as the western men even tho their lives are unfair in dictatorial counties.

Hm. Interesting. My mother is a Christian. She thinks I will go to hell if I ctb. I was curious about this (I've been an agnostic atheist since I was 12.) and read something that said you could still go to heaven if you committed suicide. I don't recall it and don't feel like looking it up. I practice blasphemy, and am vehement about ctb so I'm condemned either way.
*shrugs*

Didn't know those Islam facts. That confuses me though as to what the thought process behind the suicide bombings of Muslim people in the name of Allah... Idk.

 

[Forever Sleep]

Basically, given what we know about the world and how it was designed, I don't like God... If there is one. I don't want to be a pawn in their game. Obviously, we don't get the choice and- defying God may well lead to being punished but, I think it's important to stand up for what you believe in and I don't like how God created the world and if they actually bothered to stick around- how they maintain it. I have no desire to be part of such a corrupt system.

Of course, I still will be if all this religious stuff is true. I have no doubt I'll be sent to hell for all this. I doubt I'd be able to fake liking God though either. If God is real, they already know how I feel about them and, I'm already doomed most likely, whether I suicide or not. I doubt complimenting them on rainbows and waterfalls is going to make up for how many times I've cursed them.

Don't get me wrong. I admire people who create something good out of terrible adversity. Following a brutal murder or illness, you sometimes get families creating charities to raise awareness and help prevent these terrible things happening again. I do think that's hugely brave and amazing.

Bottomline though is- God is the supreme designer and enabler of suffering! If God did/ does things intentionally and doesn't make mistakes, I can only assume they want us to suffer. God created fallible bodies that can experience all sorts of pain and illness. God created the murderous/ peadophilic/ psychopathic brain. God enables rape, murder, genocide, starvation. Sorry but, I'm not that in to masochism and martyrdom!

Maybe the religious folk want to blame the devil for all the bad stuff but then- they need to concede that either the devil is stronger than God or, God allows the devil to continue hurting their 'flock'. Neither points to an omnipotent, loving God. It points to a being who is in league with the devil in testing us. For what though?

I can only conclude that this is all one big test. We have to stay faithful to a being we're not even sure exists despite all the terrible things they enable to happen to us and everyone else. Plus, we innately have a whole bunch of 'natural' desires we need to supress to show our loyalty- lust, gluttony, greed, wrath. Hell- even the ability to question is problematic. God doesn't seem to tolerate being questioned. We've been set up for failure from the start. WHY??? Why put us through such a cruel test? What really is the end goal? Some big party in heaven for eternity sounds like such an anticlimax after all that and an eternity in hell for using a few curse words seems crazy too.

In terms of our lives being an expression of the divine. I don't really believe that. I think it's just typical of the over- inflated human ego trying to feel less insignificant than it could well be. Presumably, the animal we ate for lunch wasn't quite so important? You have to almost admire the lengths we go to to feel less significant- if religion is all fantasy in the end. To engineer a story where a mortal being can become immortal- you can't really get more imaginative/ delussional! (If it is all delussion.)

I suppose where I do agree though is, I think life can have the potential to be good. Really good for some people. Obviously it is, otherwise, more people would be killing themselves! I'm personally not a death/ suicide worshipper. I think suicide is tragic in as much as that person's life must have been terribly blighted for them to hate it so much that they wanted to end it. Did they need to suffer from mental or physical illness? Did they need to be abused in childhood? Did they need to struggle to fit into this society? Did they need to be bullied? No- surely not. And, guess who enabled all that shit ultimately?

But- why should they be expected to put up with it?!! Who do they owe anything to? They didn't choose to undertake all that crap. That decision was made by their parents and God ultimately. Why are they so surprised and disappointed when their children rebel at being made to suffer without even being given an adequate explanation as to why they should?

If we truly have the divine in us, why don't we know the answers? How can there even be atheists if we have the divine in us? Did they get a lower dose?

Nah, even if it is all real, it utterly repulses me. I can't get beyond how sadistic a system it is. I simply can't envisage a good enough reason to warrant all the suffering. So- no- I'm not willing to comply to it. Even if that means being punished. I admire people who stand up to dictators. God has to be the supreme dictator.

 

[falling_snow]

Dumbass JP. He's so fucking dumb. Every word that cones out of his mouth, is dumb and worthless. Too privileged and doesn't know his place. I like those men with their mouthes shut, they are prettier that way.

 

[ijustwishtodie]

My life is mine to take... or at least it should be mine to take but unfortunately people have restricted suicide methods so much to where I don't even get that choice anymore due to compulsion. Right now, I'm not choosing to live, at least not voluntarily... I'm only alive due to compulsion. I hope I can take my life soon but what I do know is that I do deserve the right to take my own life. Why should I live for others? Why should I live at all?

 

[acephale]

Why put us through such a cruel test?

That's the question almost all traditional religions cannot answer, the best answer they had is for a hidden wisdom that only god knows.

But there's theory explains this confusion, first you need to know that humans always had innate irrational psychological part, and early religions were reflection of this part where they used to be pagans then with progress they tried to make sense of it where they reliaze that natural phenomina wasn't god but there's something greater. They tried to merge logic and reason with religion. So your question technically doesn't make any sense.

In terms of our lives being an expression of the divine. I don't really believe that. I think it's just typical of the over- inflated human ego trying to feel less insignificant

I think even if it's not real, we are creatures who devoloped irrational part that needs to be satisfied, we should believe in something divine simply because what normal adults content themselves with, it has to be sacred, he has to find himself.

 

[ms_beaverhousen]

Dumbass JP. He's so fucking dumb. Every word that cones out of his mouth, is dumb and worthless. Too privileged and doesn't know his place. I like those men with their mouthes shut, they are prettier that way.

That last sentence is gold

 

[iloverachel]

I have no life.
All I do is lay down and rot

 

[pilotviolin]

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

i love ignoring stuff like dude u do u jordan boy but oh i love reading up on things or glancing at things but treating it as optional; i used to judge myself under whatever id read or watch but now i just can willingly not follow an idea and it feels great knowing/gathering words and info but ultimately doing whatever i want to and believing in whatever i want to. and i could be wrong, i think ill make the assumption im mostly wrong and maybe im so arrogant to think im so wrong and blah blah i dont care. so for reason number four, i personally will disobey it. i am sure. if you disagree, then come prove the reason right and take my life yourself. take it and go hoobaboobabooboo wahoo then throw it away into the doors into a cabinet of vinyl and wood and all things good. each circle is different pieces, for the inner most one for my life, there is no inherent moral obligation for how i treat myself. reading his other reasons, theres a lot of "owing" and i think you can be generous, compassionate, and kind without owing or being owed, me viewing life as one big debt would do the opposite of what people want the sentiment to do.

 

[Forever Sleep]

So your question technically doesn't make any sense.

My question doesn't make sense if there isn't a God- certainly. But, do we know for sure? If there is a God or even a divine power that presumably has some sort of intention, why isn't it reasonable to ask why we, as sentient creatures have been made sentient and are being put through suffering? Why is that non sensical? You can say it's not our place to ask. We don't have the right to question God. That's not the same thing as it not making sense to ask. Why were we made capable to ask and doubt in God? That's the other problem. If obedience is the most prized attribute, why create us so we can disobey? I think God is in to some weird sado-masochism shit. They maybe get off on how cruel they can be to us and some of us will still worship them.

But sure- if it's all just nature and randomness at work then, no, this isn't a test and there is no intention.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Someone posted a thread about Jordan B. Peterson's reasons not to commit suicide and I read an article about it. This one particularly stood out to me

"Number 4: 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take'
The fourth and final reason I found particularly moving. He says that maybe your life doesn't belong to you. 'Don't be so sure your life is yours to take. You don't own yourself the way you own an object. If you're religious, maybe your life belongs to a higher power. Or if you're not religious, maybe it belongs to your loved ones or some greater cause.' In true Peterson fashion, he takes the religious option: 'you have a moral obligation to yourself as a locus of divine value.'"

What do you think of this quote? Do you believe that our lives are not our own to take? Personally, I find this invalidating. I shouldn't be obligated to live for other people

The only person who I care enough about to not take my own life for probably doesn't give two shits about me or if someone else is my actual soulmate then they probably don't even know I exist right now so I still don't care about them because I physically can't.