DEATH IS FREEDOM
Death is the solution to unsolvable problems.
- Sep 13, 2023
- 607
No, it is mostly me who has added information and knowledge that has taken may years to obain and therefore I will leave.
sppplmgwiwlkiwbtft
you see it too. for me, it's always like this.
- Jun 15, 2023
- 59
it provides a safe space to talk about what's on my mind. the only place in my world where I can be honest and have at least some sort of outlet and where people will understand instead of judging me or making my suicidality about themselves. so yeah it helps to cope a lot. wish communities like SS weren't shamed and harassed by the ones who've never experienced mental illnesses. for many of us it is the only safe space we got
Does anyone have the latest peaceful pill handbook edition? I want to view the pages on where to get Nembutal. But I need the latest edition.
FrownyFace
Member
- May 15, 2024
- 19
I'm new here, just got my account, but I've been lurking since March, debating joining, but I decided to officially make an account because this site is comforting. It's always been so hard to talk about suicide without feeling extremely judged, but people here are open and judgement free, from all viewpoints and I appreciate and respect that a lot. It's nice to know I'm not suffering these things alone and that I'm allowed to talk about them in ways that aren't so "clean" because in society, these feelings are " taboo" and I've never felt able to talk about them clearly.
anagram
Suicide: permanent solution to permanent problems
- Feb 4, 2024
- 78
I don't see other so called mental health associations doing a better job. Instead they like to institutionalise and lock us up for what we feel. This site is very open and doesn't condemn suicide like it's a boogeyman. For most of us, suicide is the real solution to very messed up problems that can't be fixed with pills and therapy word games or being hospitalised and locked up (which makes things worse for a lot of people).
This website is a true escape from all that and their suffocating paradigm they try to drag us into.
Very much this! As soon as I try to talk to family about how I feel it's instantly go see a doctor and get emergency therapy now. It's nice being able to reach out to people who understand you and feel the same. Life isn't something that a pill can fix, we all have our own struggles and at times you feel like you just want to make them go away and the people around you would be better off if you weren't there.
anagram
Suicide: permanent solution to permanent problems
- Feb 4, 2024
- 78
The way they handle and deal with it it's incredibly cringe and gay for a lack of a better word. The problem is, I can't attempt suicide in peace. Last time I went to cliffs and SI kicked in big time and before I knew it, the pro life chaplains dialed up the police and dragged me into a psych ward. I should've jumped on the spot .
Having the space to attempt it for me in the past has been an issue, though not anymore, I have the space. It's just not wanting to do it wrong and being hospitalised as that'd be the worst thing
trappedinthislife
Student
- May 13, 2024
- 107
Definitely. The site is a good place where first, I can say my own beliefs without having to worry about getting absolutely cooked. I like that even when people disagree, in the majority of cases they're respectful about it.
Secondly, people here care about one another's feelings, unlike other sites/people who, if you slightly mention CTB, they call the police on you/say all sorts of things. I never have people here tell me to get therapy, I never have people here tell me to "seek professional help" or offer some unhelpful advice/worsen my mood.
And thirdly many discussions here are super chill. I thoroughly enjoy the different questions people post/the forum games. I come here to talk about games Ive been playing lately, books im reading, music im listening to, and people here doesn't feel the need to dunk on me over small things.
Its also comforting knowing that Im not the only one who thinks CTB should be a human right.
Secondly, people here care about one another's feelings, unlike other sites/people who, if you slightly mention CTB, they call the police on you/say all sorts of things. I never have people here tell me to get therapy, I never have people here tell me to "seek professional help" or offer some unhelpful advice/worsen my mood.
And thirdly many discussions here are super chill. I thoroughly enjoy the different questions people post/the forum games. I come here to talk about games Ive been playing lately, books im reading, music im listening to, and people here doesn't feel the need to dunk on me over small things.
Its also comforting knowing that Im not the only one who thinks CTB should be a human right.
I can definitely say the site is helpful . I have been here less than a month though i spend half of my days reading through different sections and just knowing that i can get genuine support from others on here without being judged means alot . I am very happy being on here
needthebus
Longing to Becoming HRU
- Apr 29, 2024
- 259
I don't know whether i will end up dying of suicide. i wish there were a legal process so I could declare a wish to die and have that processed with professionals.
Because suicide is illegal in my country, and all professionals are required to dissuade suicide, I am more concerned about involuntary hospitalization. I have also had bad experiences before with involuntary "treatment" and being kept in a room with no books, TV, or anyone to talk with for many hours. There was nothing to do except masturbate or drink water and one time I masturbated and looked up to see a psychiatric technician staring at me through the window taking notes, wide eyed. I was under a blanket, but they still wrote down in their notes I was masturbating and I still feel they probably were there a while before I noticed. It was awful and so degrading. I hope writing that in the notes also really helped them and their medical records somehow, that it added clinical value. (Sarcasm) I hate that person, whoever he is, I hope he's in pain and suffering somehow, I wish the universe were just and made him hurt. Every day or so I occasionally someone talked with me there for 10 or 15 minutes. Once I was at that place, I just said I was fine and I only accidentally took a lot of pills... it was so terrible to be there and they held me captive until i lied and said i was fine and happy. I had over 100 pills I had hoarded. I lost track after taking 60, I probably took over 80, I don't think I took them all. There was a point where I stopped because I felt like I had taken enough to kill me and I was just tired and it was hard to take so many, to be crying quietly with no one around since other people were out of their cells, and I wanted to wipe off my tears and try to look normal so I had a better chance of dying. I can't believe it didn't work. It was too late to pump my stomach, but there was an antidote and much to my horror it worked.
i was kept in a room with nothing to read, no tv, no one to talk to. They justify psychological abuse through terms like safety, but it's still psychological abuse.
Many people get help and do well on meds and don't have the bad experience i had. This particular involuntary facility was a place I was at after trying to commit suicide in jail and failing. It was an extraordinarily painful attempt, I was handcuffed most of the time when they treated me after trying to overdose, police were insulting me and calling me stupid turd and other nasty names while the poison had started to affect my organs while handcuffed to a gurney, and I can't believe I didn't die given how much it hurt. I still probably have some internal organ damage from the attempt. The involuntary place may have been worse than a normal facility, but I think there were people there who were not accused of crimes. I don't want my bad experience to dissuade anyone from getting help. Some people get better. I haven't. I've tried many meds and they didn't help and if I see a professional at this point, there is a very high chance I could be forced to take meds I don't like or hospitalized involuntarily and I've done that before, it made things worse for me personally, and because of my bad experiences I really don't want that.
I am glad I have a space to share in which people will not pressure me to take meds, pressure me to tallk to a professional who could lock me up, or try to provide religious advice or tell me everything will be okay. I am slightly afraid to post here because I don't want to dissuade anyone from getting help from the typical places society encourages or upset someone with what I've written who is already sad. But there is also literally nowhere else I can talk about my feelings without being pressured to become subject to a medical system that makes me uncomfortable or a religious belief system that makes me uncomfortable. There isn't anywhere I can just exist, with all my sadness, without people trying to make me into someone else. I feel I have been financially exploited by the medical and psychiatric system. I feel exploited by the government, and people who have hurt me, and financially and emotionally and sexually exploited me generally, I've had an awful life, I am also a damaged person. I don't like the government saying they have a monopoly on whether I get to live or die. I feel like in order to continue to live and have food and a place to stay, I have to work an incredible amount. The suffering I have to endure for a small amount of happiness is probably not worth it to me, it feels like more exploitation of me by society. I just want to exist and be sad. I can't even grow crops near a river away from society and try to live that way because the government claims a monopoly on all land. I can either be homeless, or on disability and incredibly poor and forced onto many medications I absolutely don't want, or I can work work work and be miserable simply for the right to exist. I am probably looking at this in a bleaker way than it is because of my sadness, and perhaps pills would be beneficial to see things more clearly, but I have had such bad experiences with the psychiatric industry that I'm not willing to see any professionals. If I could take certain medications without seeing a psychiatrist and without being subject to evaluations and notes and possible involuntary treatment, then I would likely be taking something right now, but at an extremely low dose that would not placate doctors. They would want me on injectible medications that I wouldn't want, they wouldn't be content with low doses. It's easier for me to avoid psychiatry and not have any medicaiton than it is to be involved in that system and subject to involuntary hospitalization and pressured into intramuscular medications. I am tired of people forcing me to do things or pressuring me to do things I don't want to do. If I were to take anything, I wouldn't want to take it for a long time, and they have diagnosed me with so many things that if I go back to psychiatry, they would likely lock me up if I went back on something, felt a bit better, and then tried to taper off. The mental health industry wants me to be a paying customer indefinitely and it's too risky for me, with my history, to get involved with them unless I want to risk involuntary treatment. They've put me on forced medications where the doses were so high I couldn't go to the bathroom for days. NEVER AGAIN, never again will I go back to psychiatry. For some people, however, they go and get help and get better. For people without a long history, they can go and say they are sad and take medications at lower doses and sometimes aren't hospitalized, get better and end up happy. That wouldn't happen for me with my history, but it does happen to people. The only happiness in my life right now is I am currently free of psychiatry. That is something good in my life.
I don't know if I will end up committing suicide. There's some chance I won't. I'm thinking a lot about it, but there's still some stuff I'd like to do first. I really wish I had experienced a happy life and feel like I just had bad luck. I am probably not going to end my life right away, but there's a decent chance I'll end it within 3 months to two years. Or perhaps I'll stay alive. I don't know. But I am glad there is a place where I can just be sad without people pressuring me to feel a certain way. I can just be me. Perhaps one day suicide will be legal everywhere and people can just be themselves and if they want to die, they can go through a process and possibly do it. If there were a legal process to determine if suicide were appropriate for me, and clinicians would consider it an option, I would start that process. But I'm in a religious country and it's not an option for me. I have thought about trying to go to another country in which suicide is legal, but I don't think they do that for people who aren't born there. So I walk this path alone, unsure of where it will lead.
I feel so incredibly victimized, not only by people who have committed crimes against me, but also just by society and the mental health industry. I wish I could get help somehow from people who were outside the industry and not subject to industry rules enforced by the government, who would not pressure me to take meds I don't want, but I don't think that exists. I probably have PTSD caused by the mental health industry at this point. There aren't really safe places for sad people which are free of their tentacles except this place.
I hope anyone on this website under 22 knows that 18-21 is a tumultuous time, some people are very unhappy then and feel much better later, after they are working and are independent. Some people get help from the mental health industry and get better probably, so this isn't meant to discourage people from getting help. I had horrible experiences with the mental health industry but I may be an outlier and not represent the typical experience people have. This is just such a lonely process for me, but I suppose it has to be.
Because suicide is illegal in my country, and all professionals are required to dissuade suicide, I am more concerned about involuntary hospitalization. I have also had bad experiences before with involuntary "treatment" and being kept in a room with no books, TV, or anyone to talk with for many hours. There was nothing to do except masturbate or drink water and one time I masturbated and looked up to see a psychiatric technician staring at me through the window taking notes, wide eyed. I was under a blanket, but they still wrote down in their notes I was masturbating and I still feel they probably were there a while before I noticed. It was awful and so degrading. I hope writing that in the notes also really helped them and their medical records somehow, that it added clinical value. (Sarcasm) I hate that person, whoever he is, I hope he's in pain and suffering somehow, I wish the universe were just and made him hurt. Every day or so I occasionally someone talked with me there for 10 or 15 minutes. Once I was at that place, I just said I was fine and I only accidentally took a lot of pills... it was so terrible to be there and they held me captive until i lied and said i was fine and happy. I had over 100 pills I had hoarded. I lost track after taking 60, I probably took over 80, I don't think I took them all. There was a point where I stopped because I felt like I had taken enough to kill me and I was just tired and it was hard to take so many, to be crying quietly with no one around since other people were out of their cells, and I wanted to wipe off my tears and try to look normal so I had a better chance of dying. I can't believe it didn't work. It was too late to pump my stomach, but there was an antidote and much to my horror it worked.
i was kept in a room with nothing to read, no tv, no one to talk to. They justify psychological abuse through terms like safety, but it's still psychological abuse.
Many people get help and do well on meds and don't have the bad experience i had. This particular involuntary facility was a place I was at after trying to commit suicide in jail and failing. It was an extraordinarily painful attempt, I was handcuffed most of the time when they treated me after trying to overdose, police were insulting me and calling me stupid turd and other nasty names while the poison had started to affect my organs while handcuffed to a gurney, and I can't believe I didn't die given how much it hurt. I still probably have some internal organ damage from the attempt. The involuntary place may have been worse than a normal facility, but I think there were people there who were not accused of crimes. I don't want my bad experience to dissuade anyone from getting help. Some people get better. I haven't. I've tried many meds and they didn't help and if I see a professional at this point, there is a very high chance I could be forced to take meds I don't like or hospitalized involuntarily and I've done that before, it made things worse for me personally, and because of my bad experiences I really don't want that.
I am glad I have a space to share in which people will not pressure me to take meds, pressure me to tallk to a professional who could lock me up, or try to provide religious advice or tell me everything will be okay. I am slightly afraid to post here because I don't want to dissuade anyone from getting help from the typical places society encourages or upset someone with what I've written who is already sad. But there is also literally nowhere else I can talk about my feelings without being pressured to become subject to a medical system that makes me uncomfortable or a religious belief system that makes me uncomfortable. There isn't anywhere I can just exist, with all my sadness, without people trying to make me into someone else. I feel I have been financially exploited by the medical and psychiatric system. I feel exploited by the government, and people who have hurt me, and financially and emotionally and sexually exploited me generally, I've had an awful life, I am also a damaged person. I don't like the government saying they have a monopoly on whether I get to live or die. I feel like in order to continue to live and have food and a place to stay, I have to work an incredible amount. The suffering I have to endure for a small amount of happiness is probably not worth it to me, it feels like more exploitation of me by society. I just want to exist and be sad. I can't even grow crops near a river away from society and try to live that way because the government claims a monopoly on all land. I can either be homeless, or on disability and incredibly poor and forced onto many medications I absolutely don't want, or I can work work work and be miserable simply for the right to exist. I am probably looking at this in a bleaker way than it is because of my sadness, and perhaps pills would be beneficial to see things more clearly, but I have had such bad experiences with the psychiatric industry that I'm not willing to see any professionals. If I could take certain medications without seeing a psychiatrist and without being subject to evaluations and notes and possible involuntary treatment, then I would likely be taking something right now, but at an extremely low dose that would not placate doctors. They would want me on injectible medications that I wouldn't want, they wouldn't be content with low doses. It's easier for me to avoid psychiatry and not have any medicaiton than it is to be involved in that system and subject to involuntary hospitalization and pressured into intramuscular medications. I am tired of people forcing me to do things or pressuring me to do things I don't want to do. If I were to take anything, I wouldn't want to take it for a long time, and they have diagnosed me with so many things that if I go back to psychiatry, they would likely lock me up if I went back on something, felt a bit better, and then tried to taper off. The mental health industry wants me to be a paying customer indefinitely and it's too risky for me, with my history, to get involved with them unless I want to risk involuntary treatment. They've put me on forced medications where the doses were so high I couldn't go to the bathroom for days. NEVER AGAIN, never again will I go back to psychiatry. For some people, however, they go and get help and get better. For people without a long history, they can go and say they are sad and take medications at lower doses and sometimes aren't hospitalized, get better and end up happy. That wouldn't happen for me with my history, but it does happen to people. The only happiness in my life right now is I am currently free of psychiatry. That is something good in my life.
I don't know if I will end up committing suicide. There's some chance I won't. I'm thinking a lot about it, but there's still some stuff I'd like to do first. I really wish I had experienced a happy life and feel like I just had bad luck. I am probably not going to end my life right away, but there's a decent chance I'll end it within 3 months to two years. Or perhaps I'll stay alive. I don't know. But I am glad there is a place where I can just be sad without people pressuring me to feel a certain way. I can just be me. Perhaps one day suicide will be legal everywhere and people can just be themselves and if they want to die, they can go through a process and possibly do it. If there were a legal process to determine if suicide were appropriate for me, and clinicians would consider it an option, I would start that process. But I'm in a religious country and it's not an option for me. I have thought about trying to go to another country in which suicide is legal, but I don't think they do that for people who aren't born there. So I walk this path alone, unsure of where it will lead.
I feel so incredibly victimized, not only by people who have committed crimes against me, but also just by society and the mental health industry. I wish I could get help somehow from people who were outside the industry and not subject to industry rules enforced by the government, who would not pressure me to take meds I don't want, but I don't think that exists. I probably have PTSD caused by the mental health industry at this point. There aren't really safe places for sad people which are free of their tentacles except this place.
I hope anyone on this website under 22 knows that 18-21 is a tumultuous time, some people are very unhappy then and feel much better later, after they are working and are independent. Some people get help from the mental health industry and get better probably, so this isn't meant to discourage people from getting help. I had horrible experiences with the mental health industry but I may be an outlier and not represent the typical experience people have. This is just such a lonely process for me, but I suppose it has to be.
needthebus
Longing to Becoming HRU
- Apr 29, 2024
- 259
Also to any mental health professionals criticizing this site:
1) Keeping people in rooms that amount to sensory deprivation, with no books, no TV, no music, and no conversation IS a form of torture. Sensory deprivation for DAYS in the name of "safety" in which there are HOURS AND HOURS of misery where a person who is sad is completely alone is not acceptable or justified, no matter how many doctors or medical professionals say it's an acceptable standard of care.
A hospital could easily put a TV behind a pane of plastic and put it very high up so there's no chance of the plastic shattering. A hospital could make the controls activated by sound or patients could request a clinician turn it on or off from a control room. There's no excuse for sensory deprivation experiences being forced upon vulnerable sad patients. The only reason to do it that way is laziness, cost-savings of not needing to buy TVs and add plastic, and just general cruelty and indifference to patients. A TV that is placed 11 feet high is not a safety concern in a room without chairs. The TV could even be put into the ceiling if clinicians are so afraid. All of these mental health professionals talk about caring about patients, but when you see that level of cruelty and indifference towards patients, and patients being treated like dogs in a kennel, it becomes VERY clear that profit is what they care about and that mental health professionals strike a balance between convenience, cost and profit, cruelty to patience, and safety, with cruelty to patients give the least concern among those. But actually, these sorts of isolation experiences are NEVER acceptable. So before criticizing a website like this, why not take a good hard look at your own cruel industry and WHY people and patients don't want to engage with it.
2) The goal of your industry is always immediate improvements in symptoms while profiting, and everything else be damned. If a patient is sad or psychotic, the ONLY goal is reducing that, even if the patient is miserable, even if the patient can't live with side effects. And because hospitals and doctors at involuntary care tie "privileges" (ie, less extreme suffering) to how well a person is doing, all patients in places like that learn really quickly to lie in order to suffer less. Very few will tell you a medication is awful if they have been kidnapped and can't leave and the conditions are miserable. Doctors will also engage in gas-lighting patients of saying it's a symptom to tell them what they want to hear, as though it's somehow symptomatic to want to suffer less when everyone knows that those places are terrible, especially for those with limited priviledges, and the only way to suffer less is to claim to be in less suffering. Being in involuntary care was a lot like being spoonfed shit and being told I would never leave until I told them I liked it but lying to them was immoral and bad.
There have been ZERO studies on the longitudinal effects of involuntary care and intramuscular injections and being deprived of normal basic needs (like some sensory experiences) on long-term patient compliance. The only studies are things like "Does medication X when forcefully administered over a period of a year reduce patient symptoms?" and they almost always involve a profit motive which can bias the outcome. Even most mental health metastudies are just analysis of large collections of biased studies fundeded with profit-oriented companies. You can't extract validity from a large collection of biased studies even with complex statistical corrections. There are also not studies on the effects of forced care on differnet subgroups of patients. For instance, the long-term effects of forced intramuscular injections on a patient with an IQ of 80 may look very differnet from forced intramuscular injections on someone with an IQ above 100, and clinicians don't care about this.
Almost all the studies are funded by big pharma, and clinicians are perfectly fine with pocketing the money from care, letting big pharma do it's thing, and criticizing those outside their industry.
Patients are ALWAYS denied access to cell phones in facilities and the excuse is always patient privacy. But there could easily be cell phones with no cameras allowed in such facilities allowing people to communicate with friends and family. The goal is control. There are no studies on whether this makes any sense, to do things this way, because patient wellness is only a pseudo-goal. Profit and control is the goal, and if patients happen to occasionally improve, then great. Cell phones without cameras would not be that expensive and you could easily do a custom operating system by modifying an existing open source operating system to prevent recording through the microphone and eliminate telemetry from the OS itself. If clinicians are concerned about patients talking on the phone during clinical groups, they could make the phones WiFi capable only and make patient rooms have WiFi with an extremely low power so the phones wouldn't connect to WiFi in clinical group areas. They could block sites that could be used to alter the OS by having all WiFi use the same DNS, they could block port 53 or any DNS attempts in the modded OS, and they could use DNS filtering to block access to anything that could change a modded OS, although it's not like that would be even easy to do even for an expert programmer or hacker. Any objection to patients being able to communicate regularly with friends and family can be easily solved with technology, doctors know this, hospitals know this, THEY ARE LAZY AND PROFIT ORIENTED. You could also eliminate microphones from the phone and create a headphone jack and only allow headsets to be checked out at certain times or in certain areas. This would not be exensive to do or create. A company in China could EASILY make this for a fairly low cost. Anyone moderately skilled at computers could create a custom OS for hardware like that. Patients could still text if the headsets weren't checked out. THE REASON THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN IS CLINICIANS LIKE THEIR CONTROL. Controlling people releases dopamine and is addictive, and this evolved evolutionarily because if there wasn't a dopamine hit for leading the tribe, no one would assume the risk. There are studies on this and it's not speculation. Power is addictive. Clinicians get addicted to the dopamine and are too stupid or indifferent to acknowledge how this biases their clinical judgments. Clinicians will never do studies on this of course, because THEY DON'T ACTUALLY CARE.
Paitents not having cell phones in locked facilities doesn't happen because clinicians don't realize how patients feel. It's not that doctorates in medicine and psychology are too stupid to realize they could use technology to address privacy concerns. THEY DON'T CARE! It's mostly about money. They know patients suffer with limited access to chatting with friends and family or texting. They know and don't care. IT'S SO EASY TO CRITIZE PATIENTS AND OTHERS AND DEMAND MORE MONEY FOR AWARENESS OF MENTAL HEALTH, as though people aren't aware of the things they do. It's clearly technologically feasible to make patients suffer less. But they love the dopamine of control.
3) Clinicians do not reach out to those who hate the mental health industry to seek input on how to meaningfully change things.
If clinicians were concerned about reaching patients who don't engage with the mental health system, instead of criticizing a place like this, they could fund a study to research why people distrust the psychiatric industry and mental health industry and see if specific changes requested could result in better or worse patient outcomes.
This would be difficult to do because most standards of care and medical processes are determined by regulation or common practice and deviating from that could get someone in trouble with the government and result in liability. So if you did a study like that, and patients said "I'd be more likely to seek care if I could never be deemed non-compliant for refusing to take a medication and if there were no 'privileged' tied to medication levels or involuntary care, then in order to test that, you'd need to create am experiemental group of people with mental health problems and have them subject to a different set of medical ethics and regulations for the study in which the regulations and standard of care would be different for the experimental group and change the laws so that those administering the study couldn't be liable for differences in the standard of care during the study duration.
You would then have to make this a longitudinal study of at least 5 years to see patient outcomes during that time. You would also have to pay patients a stipend to not drop out and have a control group and pay them not to drop out. You could then see which regulatory environment resulted in better patient outcomes. You would also have to make it so patients could drop out of care at any time without being pressured to stay and still be a part of the study and get paid in order to mimic reality.
That's the sort of study doctors and regulators COULD do to see how patient care is affected by really harsh regulations that prioritize ideas of "safety" over patients being MISERABLE, likely decreasing deaths at facilities but increase patient deaths in the long-term due to despair and distrust of the industry. But doctors and regulators don't do those studies because THEY DON'T ACTUALLY CARE. THEY JUST WANT THEIR MONEY. They are perfectly content to use big pharma to do all studies with big pharma's goal only being share holder value maximization and then to coast on that. You think patients don't see that?
So when a site like this happens, and people do die after visiting the site, it's SO EASY for them to say the site is bad, as though the people here wouldn't have killed themselves if ONLY they had turned to big pharma and their professional industry with all it's regulations and cruelty. They criticize a site like this because it points out how many people choose to die without being involved in their industry because their industry is terrible. Instead of asking questions, they are LAZY and coast and collect their money. They could easily try to conduct studies and do things to try to reduce people feeling like THIS is a better option than their industry.
To that person who put forth that criticism of this site, genuinely, from the bottom of my miserable existence, FUCK YOU. I hope you read this. F U C K Y O U. Go spend 14 days in a room with nothing to do, no TV to watch, and let them let you out for 30 minutes once a day to talk with someone about your feelings and shower. Take a hard look at the corruption in your industry which society doesn't label as such because everyone is too busy enjoying the money it creates. Once you've done that, then complain about this site. You don't know the people here, how we've suffered, or why we are considering suicide. You think people like us don't see through people like you? All the societal accolades and diplomas and titles will not change your bias and likely reflect only an above average intelligence that simply follows societal norms without being capable of any real critical thought. Take your 120 IQ and 100,000 salary and doctorate and Go Eat Shit.
1) Keeping people in rooms that amount to sensory deprivation, with no books, no TV, no music, and no conversation IS a form of torture. Sensory deprivation for DAYS in the name of "safety" in which there are HOURS AND HOURS of misery where a person who is sad is completely alone is not acceptable or justified, no matter how many doctors or medical professionals say it's an acceptable standard of care.
A hospital could easily put a TV behind a pane of plastic and put it very high up so there's no chance of the plastic shattering. A hospital could make the controls activated by sound or patients could request a clinician turn it on or off from a control room. There's no excuse for sensory deprivation experiences being forced upon vulnerable sad patients. The only reason to do it that way is laziness, cost-savings of not needing to buy TVs and add plastic, and just general cruelty and indifference to patients. A TV that is placed 11 feet high is not a safety concern in a room without chairs. The TV could even be put into the ceiling if clinicians are so afraid. All of these mental health professionals talk about caring about patients, but when you see that level of cruelty and indifference towards patients, and patients being treated like dogs in a kennel, it becomes VERY clear that profit is what they care about and that mental health professionals strike a balance between convenience, cost and profit, cruelty to patience, and safety, with cruelty to patients give the least concern among those. But actually, these sorts of isolation experiences are NEVER acceptable. So before criticizing a website like this, why not take a good hard look at your own cruel industry and WHY people and patients don't want to engage with it.
2) The goal of your industry is always immediate improvements in symptoms while profiting, and everything else be damned. If a patient is sad or psychotic, the ONLY goal is reducing that, even if the patient is miserable, even if the patient can't live with side effects. And because hospitals and doctors at involuntary care tie "privileges" (ie, less extreme suffering) to how well a person is doing, all patients in places like that learn really quickly to lie in order to suffer less. Very few will tell you a medication is awful if they have been kidnapped and can't leave and the conditions are miserable. Doctors will also engage in gas-lighting patients of saying it's a symptom to tell them what they want to hear, as though it's somehow symptomatic to want to suffer less when everyone knows that those places are terrible, especially for those with limited priviledges, and the only way to suffer less is to claim to be in less suffering. Being in involuntary care was a lot like being spoonfed shit and being told I would never leave until I told them I liked it but lying to them was immoral and bad.
There have been ZERO studies on the longitudinal effects of involuntary care and intramuscular injections and being deprived of normal basic needs (like some sensory experiences) on long-term patient compliance. The only studies are things like "Does medication X when forcefully administered over a period of a year reduce patient symptoms?" and they almost always involve a profit motive which can bias the outcome. Even most mental health metastudies are just analysis of large collections of biased studies fundeded with profit-oriented companies. You can't extract validity from a large collection of biased studies even with complex statistical corrections. There are also not studies on the effects of forced care on differnet subgroups of patients. For instance, the long-term effects of forced intramuscular injections on a patient with an IQ of 80 may look very differnet from forced intramuscular injections on someone with an IQ above 100, and clinicians don't care about this.
Almost all the studies are funded by big pharma, and clinicians are perfectly fine with pocketing the money from care, letting big pharma do it's thing, and criticizing those outside their industry.
Patients are ALWAYS denied access to cell phones in facilities and the excuse is always patient privacy. But there could easily be cell phones with no cameras allowed in such facilities allowing people to communicate with friends and family. The goal is control. There are no studies on whether this makes any sense, to do things this way, because patient wellness is only a pseudo-goal. Profit and control is the goal, and if patients happen to occasionally improve, then great. Cell phones without cameras would not be that expensive and you could easily do a custom operating system by modifying an existing open source operating system to prevent recording through the microphone and eliminate telemetry from the OS itself. If clinicians are concerned about patients talking on the phone during clinical groups, they could make the phones WiFi capable only and make patient rooms have WiFi with an extremely low power so the phones wouldn't connect to WiFi in clinical group areas. They could block sites that could be used to alter the OS by having all WiFi use the same DNS, they could block port 53 or any DNS attempts in the modded OS, and they could use DNS filtering to block access to anything that could change a modded OS, although it's not like that would be even easy to do even for an expert programmer or hacker. Any objection to patients being able to communicate regularly with friends and family can be easily solved with technology, doctors know this, hospitals know this, THEY ARE LAZY AND PROFIT ORIENTED. You could also eliminate microphones from the phone and create a headphone jack and only allow headsets to be checked out at certain times or in certain areas. This would not be exensive to do or create. A company in China could EASILY make this for a fairly low cost. Anyone moderately skilled at computers could create a custom OS for hardware like that. Patients could still text if the headsets weren't checked out. THE REASON THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN IS CLINICIANS LIKE THEIR CONTROL. Controlling people releases dopamine and is addictive, and this evolved evolutionarily because if there wasn't a dopamine hit for leading the tribe, no one would assume the risk. There are studies on this and it's not speculation. Power is addictive. Clinicians get addicted to the dopamine and are too stupid or indifferent to acknowledge how this biases their clinical judgments. Clinicians will never do studies on this of course, because THEY DON'T ACTUALLY CARE.
Paitents not having cell phones in locked facilities doesn't happen because clinicians don't realize how patients feel. It's not that doctorates in medicine and psychology are too stupid to realize they could use technology to address privacy concerns. THEY DON'T CARE! It's mostly about money. They know patients suffer with limited access to chatting with friends and family or texting. They know and don't care. IT'S SO EASY TO CRITIZE PATIENTS AND OTHERS AND DEMAND MORE MONEY FOR AWARENESS OF MENTAL HEALTH, as though people aren't aware of the things they do. It's clearly technologically feasible to make patients suffer less. But they love the dopamine of control.
3) Clinicians do not reach out to those who hate the mental health industry to seek input on how to meaningfully change things.
If clinicians were concerned about reaching patients who don't engage with the mental health system, instead of criticizing a place like this, they could fund a study to research why people distrust the psychiatric industry and mental health industry and see if specific changes requested could result in better or worse patient outcomes.
This would be difficult to do because most standards of care and medical processes are determined by regulation or common practice and deviating from that could get someone in trouble with the government and result in liability. So if you did a study like that, and patients said "I'd be more likely to seek care if I could never be deemed non-compliant for refusing to take a medication and if there were no 'privileged' tied to medication levels or involuntary care, then in order to test that, you'd need to create am experiemental group of people with mental health problems and have them subject to a different set of medical ethics and regulations for the study in which the regulations and standard of care would be different for the experimental group and change the laws so that those administering the study couldn't be liable for differences in the standard of care during the study duration.
You would then have to make this a longitudinal study of at least 5 years to see patient outcomes during that time. You would also have to pay patients a stipend to not drop out and have a control group and pay them not to drop out. You could then see which regulatory environment resulted in better patient outcomes. You would also have to make it so patients could drop out of care at any time without being pressured to stay and still be a part of the study and get paid in order to mimic reality.
That's the sort of study doctors and regulators COULD do to see how patient care is affected by really harsh regulations that prioritize ideas of "safety" over patients being MISERABLE, likely decreasing deaths at facilities but increase patient deaths in the long-term due to despair and distrust of the industry. But doctors and regulators don't do those studies because THEY DON'T ACTUALLY CARE. THEY JUST WANT THEIR MONEY. They are perfectly content to use big pharma to do all studies with big pharma's goal only being share holder value maximization and then to coast on that. You think patients don't see that?
So when a site like this happens, and people do die after visiting the site, it's SO EASY for them to say the site is bad, as though the people here wouldn't have killed themselves if ONLY they had turned to big pharma and their professional industry with all it's regulations and cruelty. They criticize a site like this because it points out how many people choose to die without being involved in their industry because their industry is terrible. Instead of asking questions, they are LAZY and coast and collect their money. They could easily try to conduct studies and do things to try to reduce people feeling like THIS is a better option than their industry.
To that person who put forth that criticism of this site, genuinely, from the bottom of my miserable existence, FUCK YOU. I hope you read this. F U C K Y O U. Go spend 14 days in a room with nothing to do, no TV to watch, and let them let you out for 30 minutes once a day to talk with someone about your feelings and shower. Take a hard look at the corruption in your industry which society doesn't label as such because everyone is too busy enjoying the money it creates. Once you've done that, then complain about this site. You don't know the people here, how we've suffered, or why we are considering suicide. You think people like us don't see through people like you? All the societal accolades and diplomas and titles will not change your bias and likely reflect only an above average intelligence that simply follows societal norms without being capable of any real critical thought. Take your 120 IQ and 100,000 salary and doctorate and Go Eat Shit.
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4am
there’s nothing for you (it/its)
- Dec 14, 2023
- 3,332
honestly fuck the naysayers, this site helped me get liberated from the prison that is existence. i'm very grateful that i had sasu in my life
Its helped me feel less alone over the years, coming from a family who doesn't talk about feelings its comforting to know your not alone with how your feeling and I think ultimately everyone has free choice in the forum so the backlash should be more targeted towards creating better systems so maybe people wouldn't resort to here in the first place lol
invisiblesuffering
Member
- Mar 4, 2024
- 33
WanderingThruLife
New Member
- Feb 15, 2023
- 3
It does for me - I would consider myself a very occasional viewer/user. But I do struggle with thoughts and feelings. Coming to this site assists with seeing how others are feeling and helps me get by. So, everyone here is much appreciated.
Onelegman
I use a translator
- May 24, 2024
- 552
Just knowing that a forum like this exists helps me. There is finally a safe place to talk about a global problem. It helps me a lot to read and talk to people on this forum. I can't stop the media and the quacks, who are only after money, from saying that this place is not good, but I can talk to people and maybe ease their pain a little, tell them that they are not the only ones who think this or that.
This will always be an eternal debate, people who have not felt the way we do will never understand why, there is only one way to understand each other and we cannot force them to do so.
I really feel some pity for normal people, who live anesthetized with hundreds of stimuli and are not able to see the problems and miseries of the modern world. Take 5 suicidal people and they will tell you exactly what is wrong with the lives of "normal" people, even though they don't know it. It is this laziness that kills us, seeing that problems multiply and solutions are not sought, on the contrary, they feed them and increase each one individually, making them unsustainable. There are things that can't be changed, I admit, but that doesn't apply to everything everywhere. Those who govern, those who judge or your neighbor only care about themselves and no one else, there are exceptions of course, but the rest make them give up, in inconceivable ways.
And then there's society in general, polarized into every single thing you can think of, coffee or tea? this team or this other? The dark side of the science of the mind is that many things were discovered that today are used to separate people, their purpose is to separate families, friends and work or life colleagues, since It was known that "divide and conquer" and today the number of tools they have to do it so quickly and effectively is terrible. They need us docile to continue their reign, so to speak. Honestly, I think the world is doomed to levels still unknown to me.
Sorry to go into these other topics, but it's something I see all the time and hate. Surely many doctors and money are being used to create the perfect happiness pill, so that in the future there will not be so many mentally ill people, but perhaps that creates more problems than it solves.
For all this and more I am the way I am, and one can no longer bear it and seeks help, not to cure oneself, but to end that suffering that no therapist is interested in knowing, treating and preventing from returning. Here we receive more help than in years of therapy (which usually take hours) because we do not stick to a manual or a protocol, here we talk about harsh reality, we do not limit our words and expressions and they can be misinterpreted, here there have been and there will be people who are cured (we already know that no one is cured of a mental illness but you understand me) thanks to the absence of barriers and taboos that prevail in consultations. 10 pills do not cure, they leave you drooling, with an adequate study and true commitment to the patients, 3 pills and good therapy do cure. But they, the psychiatrists and psychologists, don't usually help you, they just want their shift to end and go home, spend their money and continue fooling themselves for the rest of their lives. They have studied the mind, they know how to take care not to think wrongly or to avoid ending up like one of their patients. In the worst case scenario, they will ask their university friend for a prescription and treat themselves for something they know about, but not us, not us. They don't want to help us. And it's horrible.
Thanks for reading me, it helps to be able to say this and not have them think you're crazy.
This will always be an eternal debate, people who have not felt the way we do will never understand why, there is only one way to understand each other and we cannot force them to do so.
I really feel some pity for normal people, who live anesthetized with hundreds of stimuli and are not able to see the problems and miseries of the modern world. Take 5 suicidal people and they will tell you exactly what is wrong with the lives of "normal" people, even though they don't know it. It is this laziness that kills us, seeing that problems multiply and solutions are not sought, on the contrary, they feed them and increase each one individually, making them unsustainable. There are things that can't be changed, I admit, but that doesn't apply to everything everywhere. Those who govern, those who judge or your neighbor only care about themselves and no one else, there are exceptions of course, but the rest make them give up, in inconceivable ways.
And then there's society in general, polarized into every single thing you can think of, coffee or tea? this team or this other? The dark side of the science of the mind is that many things were discovered that today are used to separate people, their purpose is to separate families, friends and work or life colleagues, since It was known that "divide and conquer" and today the number of tools they have to do it so quickly and effectively is terrible. They need us docile to continue their reign, so to speak. Honestly, I think the world is doomed to levels still unknown to me.
Sorry to go into these other topics, but it's something I see all the time and hate. Surely many doctors and money are being used to create the perfect happiness pill, so that in the future there will not be so many mentally ill people, but perhaps that creates more problems than it solves.
For all this and more I am the way I am, and one can no longer bear it and seeks help, not to cure oneself, but to end that suffering that no therapist is interested in knowing, treating and preventing from returning. Here we receive more help than in years of therapy (which usually take hours) because we do not stick to a manual or a protocol, here we talk about harsh reality, we do not limit our words and expressions and they can be misinterpreted, here there have been and there will be people who are cured (we already know that no one is cured of a mental illness but you understand me) thanks to the absence of barriers and taboos that prevail in consultations. 10 pills do not cure, they leave you drooling, with an adequate study and true commitment to the patients, 3 pills and good therapy do cure. But they, the psychiatrists and psychologists, don't usually help you, they just want their shift to end and go home, spend their money and continue fooling themselves for the rest of their lives. They have studied the mind, they know how to take care not to think wrongly or to avoid ending up like one of their patients. In the worst case scenario, they will ask their university friend for a prescription and treat themselves for something they know about, but not us, not us. They don't want to help us. And it's horrible.
Thanks for reading me, it helps to be able to say this and not have them think you're crazy.
Edpal247
Experienced
- Jul 9, 2024
- 222
I like it. Discussion of methods and just BS'ing with peeps has been good. I don't think this site encourages people anymore than a SU prevention site - it just uses different methodology.
Placo
Life and Death
- Feb 14, 2024
- 735
It's a nice community, let's say that as a help in my method I haven't had much support but at least it's company, I've been looking for a site like this for years, then it can give food for thought on the various methods and if one is better off there is also the recovery section.
jbear824
F*ck humanity. Let's end this.
- Jul 4, 2023
- 409
Absolutely. Being around here makes me feel seen and heard. It gives me a place to openly express the thoughts and feelings that make me want to die. To connect with others who suffer from the same trauma, or just any. To connect with others who suffer from the same mental afflictions. Or physical ones.
This place has very painfully and ironically become one of the few things keeping me alive (or trapped) here. But that's good for the people who need me. It's a double edged sword to be sure. But uhh, I kind of want to fall on a sword anyway? Lmao
I've also become more knowledgeable about how to free myself, from people here. Which in some ways provides relief. Just knowing how to do it.
And if I can't do it for whatever reason, there are people here who will support me.
This place is a vital resource if society is going to refuse to let us go willingly and help us do it (the pipe dream). I would be far worse off without being able to come here and even just read other people's posts.
I fear the day that this place gets shut down or made inaccessible. I would miss this community.
I am so grateful for every day SaSu stays in our lives.
This place has very painfully and ironically become one of the few things keeping me alive (or trapped) here. But that's good for the people who need me. It's a double edged sword to be sure. But uhh, I kind of want to fall on a sword anyway? Lmao
I've also become more knowledgeable about how to free myself, from people here. Which in some ways provides relief. Just knowing how to do it.
And if I can't do it for whatever reason, there are people here who will support me.
This place is a vital resource if society is going to refuse to let us go willingly and help us do it (the pipe dream). I would be far worse off without being able to come here and even just read other people's posts.
I fear the day that this place gets shut down or made inaccessible. I would miss this community.
I am so grateful for every day SaSu stays in our lives.
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