Discussion Does ctb really have to be your last option?

[tooStupidForExitBag]

I've been on this forum for a short while now, and from what I've noticed most of you seem to advocate that all other options should be exhausted before considering ctb. This is probably a healthy view to have and I understand it from a logical perspective; ctbing removes all other options, but the other options still allow for you to ctb whenever.

I'm of a slightly different view, however. I believe that nonexistence awaits us, therefore I know that I will never regret having ctbed, but I might regret not having ctbed. Currently I'm in a position where I have not exhausted all of my options. In fact, I can imagine a future in which I would be happy, and I see this future as being achievable. I don't know if I will ctb in the end or not, currently my SI won't allow me, but I do know that I want to ctb. Even though I have other options available, and even though I believe that these options will help me, I don't see it as worth it. Yes, I will eventually be happy, but I have to put in a ton of work to get there. To me the idea of giving up just seems a lot nicer.

I'm not trying to push anyone towards ctbing, but I'd love to hear your opinions on this.

 

[GoodPersonEffed]

You've explained both perspectives really well.

 

[Blutsager]

The reason is simple:

Death is inevitable, but permanent. It will happen eventually, so you should never regret not having Ctb'ed... either you have reasons to live, in which case you will be thankful of not having done so, or you don't, in which case you will ctb right there. And death will always reach you eventually, so no reason to concern yourself of it, or hurry it.

 

[TAW122]

I think it is generally a good idea to save it as a last resort (I'm not saying you should or shouldn't, it's ultimately up to you (the individual) on what is right for your situation.) The reason people say that is due to the permanence of CTB, meaning that once you do it, there is no turning back/undoing the act (if you succeeded). That isn't to say that it is right nor wrong to do so, it just depends on the situation. If you have thought about it thoroughly, considered all outcomes and weighed your options, costs and benefits, then you should be able to make your decision.

In another situation, I don't think it should be a last option, especially when suffering is immense, chronic, on-going and prognosis of recovery is really poor (Stage III, IV cancer for instance).

 

[FreedomInDeath]

I think a lot of people are alive soley based on survival instinct, not any hope of any kind or care of life. Such a bizarre fear. I despise it.

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

The reason is simple:

Death is inevitable, but permanent. It will happen eventually, so you should never regret not having Ctb'ed... either you have reasons to live, in which case you will be thankful of not having done so, or you don't, in which case you will ctb right there. And death will always reach you eventually, so no reason to concern yourself of it, or hurry it.

I agree that if you once again feel like ctb'ing then there's no real reason to regret not having done it earlier. But even if you achieve your reason to live that doesn't mean that you'll be thankful for not having ctb'ed. For example, the case of Dax Cowart, after an accident his wishes to end his life were ignored. Even after having recovered and stating that he no longer wished to kill himself, he still wished that he would have been allowed to die right after the accident. Sometimes it just doesn't seem worth fighting even if you know that things will eventually get better.

 

[Lara Francis]

I've been on this forum for a short while now, and from what I've noticed most of you seem to advocate that all other options should be exhausted before considering ctb. This is probably a healthy view to have and I understand it from a logical perspective; ctbing removes all other options, but the other options still allow for you to ctb whenever.

I'm of a slightly different view, however. I believe that nonexistence awaits us, therefore I know that I will never regret having ctbed, but I might regret not having ctbed. Currently I'm in a position where I have not exhausted all of my options. In fact, I can imagine a future in which I would be happy, and I see this future as being achievable. I don't know if I will ctb in the end or not, currently my SI won't allow me, but I do know that I want to ctb. Even though I have other options available, and even though I believe that these options will help me, I don't see it as worth it. Yes, I will eventually be happy, but I have to put in a ton of work to get there. To me the idea of giving up just seems a lot nicer.

I'm not trying to push anyone towards ctbing, but I'd love to hear your opinions on this.

I think the question you need to ask yourself is,do u want to be happy,and do u want it enough?
Unlike alot of suicidal people ,you have the hope and insight to see a happy future and what stops u is the motivation and work to get there.
If u have tried all options then feel the same, then u can still fall back on ctb plans if thats your decision.
what what do u have to lose in trying everything first?

Ultimately its indivdual choice and a choice that maybe u r not ready to make.
I have come to realise that the only person that can truely help us is ourselves.having the options to recover and wanting to ,are two very different things.
Non exsistence does come to us all and nobody really knows when.
My moments of happiness are so infrequent that they may as well not be there at all!
TBH i wish i could see a happy and achievable future because it could give both you and I a focus and a goal to work towards.

I wish u well.

 

[faust]

There is one interesting thing about CTB.
When you are determined to do this, you may become no more afraid of mistakes in your life.
When there is nothing to lose, there is really nothing to lose.
You may take on everything with a backup plan of CTB.
You may actually jump as high as you can without the fear of consequences.
We have a fear of mistakes which may ruin our lives, but your life becomes a game or a gamble when you know you have a plan B.

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

I think the question you need to ask yourself is,do u want to be happy,and do u want it enough?
Unlike alot of suicidal people ,you have the hope and insight to see a happy future and what stops u is the motivation and work to get there.
If u have tried all options then feel the same, then u can still fall back on ctb plans if thats your decision.
what what do u have to lose in trying everything first?

Ultimately its indivdual choice and a choice that maybe u r not ready to make.
I have come to realise that the only person that can truely help us is ourselves.having the options to recover and wanting to ,are two very different things.
Non exsistence does come to us all and nobody really knows when.
My moments of happiness are so infrequent that they may as well not be there at all!
TBH i wish i could see a happy and achievable future because it could give both you and I a focus and a goal to work towards.

I wish u well.

You're completly right in that it's the motivation that I lack. Before when I imagined that future I would get tear-eyed thinking about how happy I could be, now I just feel indifferent.

 

[Lara Francis]

You're completly right in that it's the motivation that I lack. Before when I imagined that future I would get tear-eyed thinking about how happy I could be, now I just feel indifferent.

Hold on to that little bit of hope.
Having those tears shows how passionate you feel towards obtaining happiness and how important it is to u..
I hope you find the strength to try the options that u still have available.
Dont put to much pressure on yourself to change overnight because sometimes things take longer but the end goal is worth the wait.

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

There is one interesting thing about CTB.
When you are determined to do this, you may become no more afraid of mistakes in your life.
When there is nothing to lose, there is really nothing to lose.
You may take on everything with a backup plan of CTB.
You may actually jump as high as you can without the fear of consequences.
We have a fear of mistakes which may ruin our lives, but your life becomes a game or a gamble when you know you have a plan B.

Don't know if I fully agree. Yes, if you're determined to ctb then you can do whatever knowing that it won't matter. But if ctb'ing is your backup plan, then you (or at least I) will still be afraid of mistakes that would force you to switch to the backup plan.

 

[faust]

Don't know if I fully agree. Yes, if you're determined to ctb then you can do whatever knowing that it won't matter. But if ctb'ing is your backup plan, then you (or at least I) will still be afraid of mistakes that would force you to switch to the backup plan.

Well, I usually go all-in in the end if something goes terribly wrong. I get everything or I get nothing. At least I know that I tried.

 

[134340]

You explained both sides of the coin really well. In my opinion (for my life and the repercussions of me dying on the people who love me), it's cruel to not do everything I can possibly do to make things better before I fully decide to ctb. My own personal circumstances are the root of that, though; if you don't have people in your life or you've come to a point where you feel they could handle your death, then you likely won't view things the same way. I also feel like it's just...I don't know how to explain it, but if you have a shot at making things right, I think it's worth it, even if it takes a lot of work (which it inevitably will). I don't know, I just feel like if you have a shot and it's feasible, you should take it. Of course, that's not me saying do it or dont– it's 100% your decision to make. Just my two cents. I hope you find peace no matter what you decide!!

 

[whereispeace]

I've tried a bunch of options, and managed to screw all of them up. I've given up on myself. The suicidal thoughts are constant now.

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

You explained both sides of the coin really well. In my opinion (for my life and the repercussions of me dying on the people who love me), it's cruel to not do everything I can possibly do to make things better before I fully decide to ctb. My own personal circumstances are the root of that, though; if you don't have people in your life or you've come to a point where you feel they could handle your death, then you likely won't view things the same way. I also feel like it's just...I don't know how to explain it, but if you have a shot at making things right, I think it's worth it, even if it takes a lot of work (which it inevitably will). I don't know, I just feel like if you have a shot and it's feasible, you should take it. Of course, that's not me saying do it or dont– it's 100% your decision to make. Just my two cents. I hope you find peace no matter what you decide!!

Yeah, the people you leave behind is something one has to consider. Personally I'm not really kind enough to think too much about that, although I do feel like the people close to me could handle my death. They have good support networks and its not like I'm actually that big a part of anyone else's life.

 

[itsamadworld]

@tooStupidForExitBag ...I'm of the same belief. I might regret not CBT'ing. I have a few attempts in my past...I wish I had succeeded! This question comes to mind for me, 'What if life becomes so intolerable, that I will not be able to escape? Or what if in my BPD- I really loose my shit? Plus, I have been behaving as more of an addict, drinking and smoking weed, more than I ever have. I have noone helping me. I am on my own and trying the best to keep my job and my sanity...So if i somehow become incapacitated in some area; be it physical, mental, emotional (though I'm already bad there), I just do not want to go thru any more intense suffering and shit with money...that's always a stressor .... Life with bpd is suffering in-and-of-itself...

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

@tooStupidForExitBag ...I'm of the same belief. I might regret not CBT'ing. I have a few attempts in my past...I wish I had succeeded! This question comes to mind for me, 'What if life becomes so intolerable, that I will not be able to escape? Or what if in my BPD- I really loose my shit? Plus, I have been behaving as more of an addict, drinking and smoking weed, more than I ever have. I have noone helping me. I am on my own and trying the best to keep my job and my sanity...So if i somehow become incapacitated in some area; be it physical, mental, emotional (though I'm already bad there), I just do not want to go thru any more intense suffering and shit with money...that's always a stressor .... Life with bpd is suffering in-and-of-itself...

I understand, from what I've heard BPD seems horrible. I'm lucky enough to not suffer from any mental disorder. For me I'm not that affraid of my life becoming worse, I just don't have the energy to try and make my life better. I think it's possible, but I just see everything that's standing in my way. I don't want to spend years working hard toward a good life just to realize that I've shit luck and all my efforts were wasted.

 

[WinterFaust]

For me, I know I haven't exhausted all my options, not even close. In fact, I believe I'm probably systematically destroying any chance I have at things being better on a subconscious level because one, I'm always so exhausted just being alive. Two, on a logical level there is probably hope for the future but I am unable to see it. And three, closely related to reason number two, I feel like I already had the life I wanted and currently, there is no way for it to be that so I would like to exit. I don't want an approximation or something similar, I want my life as it was. It may be petulant and immature but even though things could reasonably improve from where I am now with hardwork and dedication, I don't see things being as good as they were previously.

Also, I don't know about anyone else but I strongly suspect that I was not equipped with the proper tools to cope with high levels of stress and sudden changes. I'm missing something important.

 

[itsamadworld]

I understand, from what I've heard BPD seems horrible. I'm lucky enough to not suffer from any mental disorder. For me I'm not that affraid of my life becoming worse, I just don't have the energy to try and make my life better. I think it's possible, but I just see everything that's standing in my way. I don't want to spend years working hard toward a good life just to realize that I've shit luck and all my efforts were wasted.

There's the Fear of the Future, and then there's that feeling of impending doom......But i think motivation is just one step at a time. I can do something small and let it build.....sometimes i'd rather being something versus nothing, because I like to see action!! but then there are times when I think feel the complete opposite; like i would rather do nothing, but watch tv.... but i gotta quit the weed....but I started to smoke it, because just needed to de-escalate.....because if I get too revved up, i can be dangerous....that's the prob. with bpd.... and I just don't need legal troubles....hha

 

[tooStupidForExitBag]

For me, I know I haven't exhausted all my options, not even close. In fact, I believe I'm probably systematically destroying any chance I have at things being better on a subconscious level because one, I'm always so exhausted just being alive. Two, on a logical level there is probably hope for the future but I am unable to see it. And three, closely related to reason number two, I feel like I already had the life I wanted and currently, there is no way for it to be that so I would like to exit. I don't want an approximation or something similar, I want my life as it was. It may be petulant and immature but even though things could reasonably improve from where I am now with hardwork and dedication, I don't see things being as good as they were previously.

Also, I don't know about anyone else but I strongly suspect that I was not equipped with the proper tools to cope with high levels of stress and sudden changes. I'm missing something important.

Feel like I could've written this. I do see hope for the future, but I also know I need quite the bit of luck to get there. And even if I get there I'll always miss the life that I lost, I'm constantly imagining getting my old life back.

I'm not equipped with the proper tools either. I'm constantly feeling burnt-out and the smallest things can make me break down completly. I've definitely missed something important, which is probably another reason as to why I don't feel like going on.

 

[OhItsZemblanity]

I'm in the same boat I think. Yeah, there's a lot I'd like to do, and a path I can see that would lead me to being happy. But it would take mountains of work to get there and do the things I'd like. I just don't have the energy or willpower to do it. I've mentioned it before, but I don't see myself as worthy of getting help. I'm going to die eventually, half the time I already feel like I am and just dissociate from everything. Just seems like a lot of extra shit to go through when I can peacefully pass on my own terms rather than wade through a mountain of effort that could just lead me to ctb later on in life rather than sooner. I just don't see the appeal of that.

Edit: I'm also quite a bit of a self saboteur, either by choice or subconsciously

 

[muffin222]

Your perspective 100% matches what I'm currently feeling at the moment. Yes, I can envision a happy future for myself if I persevere and expend an enormous amount of steady effort and energy into my healing and into my physical circumstances, but I'm seriously contemplating whether it's all really worth the labor I know it'll require to get there. I do have other options I could exercise before ctb (and, I currently am doing so, since I'm still alive and kicking), yet my mind drifts back to ctb as a viable choice for my situation.

This viewpoint may seem strange to most people outside of this forum, but when the "going" is constantly tough, it makes a person start to wonder if all of the trouble is really worth it

 

[Harleyyy]

I think this feeling is fleeting and occurs repeatedly. I have things to look forward to like building a career and all but I don't know if i want to do them. Some traumas just don't go away and you're stuck with them, I don't know if it's worth it to live life like that, being in constant pain of your thoughts, wishing you were dead, i just wish there was a simple suicide pill i could take. It's true when they say that there's no substitute to hard work, even killing yourself takes it, lol.