does anyone else hate their ethnicity?

[deadbidaylight]

It's funny how everything got messed up by a certain user who can't differentiate between race and ethnicity. As if she were the only white person on the forum lol This is the second thread she's ruined.. To make matters worse, after throwing out her venom she plays the victim.

I've ruined 2 threads? I didn't know I ruined anything lol. I'm sorry that I guess users on here don't like to see people getting bashed on to the level that I have been. If I ruined threads because people felt the need to stand up for me, then I'm sorry, I guess?

Play the victim. Hmmm. I think my feelings are mine only. And if I feel victimized by a few people here who are literally spewing fire at me, then I'm the one who gets to decide how I feel about it, not you.

Can you please elaborate on what venom I spewed? I'm genuinely curious.

 

[Nobody'sHero]

Technically, I'm Hispanic (my family is from Spain) but my ethnicity, idk it's not really a thing. I kind of wish it was but Americans are sometimes very naive about this (and maybe in other
Countries too) I speak Spanish fluently, it is my first language, I celebrate a lot of Spanish holidays and within my family our ethnicity plays a role in our familial culture. But Spaniards are often white, I'm a white person in America and I end up getting in these annoying arguments with people over it sometimes because how could I be Spanish if I'm white? LOL I don't hate my ethnicity and I'm proud of my culture/ where I/my family comes from. But I don't much mention it because I'm not going to defend whether I'm Spanish or not (I was literally born in Spain!!)
Side note, I haven't read through every single one of these posts but I can confidently say white Americans do have white privilege. And it may not be in the forefront things that people think necessarily, but statistics prove that we are taken more seriously by medical professionals, less likely to be victimized by law enforcement and are held to lower standards within our judicial system, often receiving less punishment for equal crimes compared to people of color. I'm not sure what this has to do with ethnicity but I saw it was a topic mentioned so.. idk, there is no point in denying white privilege in this country. It exists and it invalidates the very real experience for non white americans.

Being hispanic is dope, spaniards are fuego.

Race/ethnicity have been used interchangeably by other users on this thread and often go hand in hand. As far as "white privilege", it is a very interesting topic and we can honestly go back and fourth all day due to the complexity. There is a clear anti-white rhetoric going on and I ask: Would this be acceptable and deemed as racist if we replaced "white" with "black", "asian", etc.

I also remember the "mostly peaceful" BLM riots across major US cities in 2020. Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) that kicked out all the racist police officers only to beg for them to do something after a murder happened. There are also crime statistics by race viewed from the pov of the percentage of each race when compared to the total population of the united states...

Again, we can be here all day, this will be my last post because I do not want to argue on a board with people that I identify with on such a sensitive and profound topic (suicide). Love is our only weapons against hate and I think we can all benefit from putting ourselves in other people's shoes. I really do believe we are on the same boat and we will only be able to accomplish great things once we all realize this. While the poor browns/whites/indians/blacks/english/spanish/jamaican's fight with each other, the rich browns/whites/indians/blacks/english/spanish/jamaican's vacation together in the Hamptons laughing at us all. I love you all and I am grateful for finding SaSu. <3

 

[grapevoid]

I'm sorry I'm just going to say one more thing on white privilege here after reading more of this thread

In America black woman are almost 3X more likely to die giving birth than a white woman. Canada won't even produce real data on it but we do know from past data that black woman are close to 2X more likely to have adverse experiences in pregnancy (preterm babies, extended hospitalization etc) so I'd imagine mortality falls somewhere close to that.

If this isn't pronounced enough white privilege man I don't even know what could be? Those statistics enrage me, and I'm not even black.

Being hispanic is dope, spaniards are fuego.

Race/ethnicity have been used interchangeably by other users on this thread and often go hand in hand. As far as "white privilege", it is a very interesting topic and we can honestly go back and fourth all day due to the complexity. There is a clear anti-white rhetoric going on and I ask: Would this be acceptable and deemed as racist if we replaced "white" with "black", "asian", etc.

I also remember the "mostly peaceful" BLM riots across major US cities in 2020. Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) that kicked out all the racist police officers only to beg for them to do something after a murder happened. There are also crime statistics by race viewed from the pov of the percentage of each race when compared to the total population of the united states...

Again, we can be here all day, this will be my last post because I do not want to argue on a board with people that I identify with on such a sensitive and profound topic (suicide). Love is our only weapons against hate and I think we can all benefit from putting ourselves in other people's shoes. I really do believe we are on the same boat and we will only be able to accomplish great things once we all realize this. While the poor browns/whites/indians/blacks/english/spanish/jamaican's fight with each other, the rich browns/whites/indians/blacks/english/spanish/jamaican's vacation together in the Hamptons laughing at us all. I love you all and I am grateful for finding SaSu. <3

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I mean poor people, regardless of race, are the most victimized class of people in the world. Absolutely. Not everything is about race, it just absolutely exists. If you're poor you're screwed no matter what

 

[Nobody'sHero]

I mean poor people, regardless of race, are the most victimized class of people in the world. Absolutely. Not everything is about race, it just absolutely exists. If you're poor you're screwed no matter what

Yah, and that's the real issue...

In America black woman are almost 3X more likely to die giving birth than a white woman. Canada won't even produce real data on it but we do know from past data that black woman are close to 2X more likely to have adverse experiences in pregnancy (preterm babies, extended hospitalization etc) so I'd imagine mortality falls somewhere close to that.

If this isn't pronounced enough white privilege man I don't even know what could be? Those statistics enrage me, and I'm not even black.

Also, I don't see how that proves white privilege. Are they 2x more likely to have adverse experiences JUST because they are black? Is it due to access to medical care? Is it due to diet? Is it due to lack of a support structure in their own personal lives? Is is the martians?

 

[grapevoid]

Yah, and that's the real issue...



Also, I don't see how that proves white privilege. Are they 2x more likely to have adverse experiences JUST because they are black? Is it due to access to medical care? Is it due to diet? Is it due to lack of a support structure in their own personal lives? Is is the martians?

Yes, it is due to systemic racism. A lot of things play in to systemic racism and even into this specific statistic but the bottom line is black woman are treated with less respect by medical professionals, and their concerns are taken less seriously. This doesn't only happen in maternity care, it's across the board in medical care. We could get really deep into systemic racism, wage gap, generational wealth, poor health due to poverty, educational barriers etc but it's a lot and I invite you to dig into it if you're curious about it. All of those things you mention, are affected by systemic racism. That's not saying white people don't also experience poverty or adverse experiences, just that they do on a lesser scale and even within the spectrum of poverty.


And realistically, I don't understand why people are so defensive about this topic. I'm white, I benefit from it in some ways, that's not my fault, it's not a personal attack on me, it doesn't invalidate my own struggles and misfortunes in life to admit that I benefit in some areas because of the color of my skin. Admitting that and working towards equality, fighting for woman as a whole, regardless of race or origin doesn't take any "privilege" away from me, it only ensures that other woman are given the same "privilege" and I believe they deserve that.

 

[Nobody'sHero]

Yes, it is due to systemic racism. A lot of things play in to systemic racism and even into this specific statistic but the bottom line is black woman are treated with less respect by medical professionals, and their concerns are taken less seriously. This doesn't only happen in maternity care, it's across the board in medical care. We could get really deep into systemic racism, wage gap, generational wealth, poor health due to poverty, educational barriers etc but it's a lot and I invite you to dig into it if you're curious about it. All of those things you mention, are affected by systemic racism. That's not saying white people don't also experience poverty or adverse experiences, just that they do on a lesser scale and even within the spectrum of poverty.

Bruh... We are getting lost in the sauce... Check this out... This is my point about the REAL issue... The interesting thing is that these terms became widely used RIGHT when occupy wall street was going on... This is a TACTIC and it WORKED... I ask: IS THIS NOT ODD? what is more odd is that IT HAPPENED IN MANY WESTERN COUNTRIES. *Fuckery alarms going off* *WEO WEO WEO WEO* The article I linked to is a great read <3 I can only attach 8 images, but INVITE EVERYONE to take a look at this. What is also very odd is how universities across the western world started pushing for more things to be looked through a racial lens.


BRUHHHHH


Source: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-great-racial-awakening

 

[Michi_Violeta]

I've ruined 2 threads? I didn't know I ruined anything lol. I'm sorry that I guess users on here don't like to see people getting bashed on to the level that I have been. If I ruined threads because people felt the need to stand up for me, then I'm sorry, I guess?

Play the victim. Hmmm. I think my feelings are mine only. And if I feel victimized by a few people here who are literally spewing fire at me, then I'm the one who gets to decide how I feel about it, not you.

Can you please elaborate on what venom I spewed? I'm genuinely curious.

I may disagree with your perspective and opinion in this thread, but I also get the feeling things are getting out of hand and you're getting too much stick just for sharing your thoughts. Yes, it's a touchy subject and one that has negatively influenced the worldview for many of us, but if anything that should motivate us all to discuss it in a more civil way.

I know it's impossible for some people to understand their own privilege, I remember trying to explain a German friend the advantages of his background and he just couldn't get it, but he wasn't a bad guy at all and never mistreated me: he just had a hard time imagining the differences and I had a hard time making him understand them without things getting heated up. Had it been, I don't know, a political forum or a classroom debate I would've teared him apart and I would've enjoyed it, but it wasn't: we were just talking.

It's a forum of suicidal people, for Christ's sake, we shouldn't be at each other's throats unless we agreed to a group hanging.

 

[grapevoid]

Bruh... We are getting lost in the sauce... Check this out... This is my point about the REAL issue... The interesting thing is that these terms became widely used RIGHT when occupy wall street was going on... This is a TACTIC and it WORKED... I ask: IS THIS NOT ODD? The article I linked to is a great read <3
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Source: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-great-racial-awakening

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Ya, I've read about this, and it's not necessarily incorrect either but media doesn't drive the actual statistics on medical care, poverty, education etc. while I agree a lot of things have been polarized and blown into key terms ect by media and politics, it can coexist with the reality that statistically, what I'm saying is accurate. Real statistics support racial inequality. I think what is most important to remember is that multiple things can coexist. There is a lot wrong with our world today.

(Tablet has also had some serious scrutiny for their "factual articles" that are often opinion pieces. Like most media. Not dogging anyone, just all our media is warped. When we think we have a good one, they do something stupid LOL which is why I think the data on racial inequality should be the deciding factor on how to approach it)

I've ruined 2 threads? I didn't know I ruined anything lol. I'm sorry that I guess users on here don't like to see people getting bashed on to the level that I have been. If I ruined threads because people felt the need to stand up for me, then I'm sorry, I guess?

Play the victim. Hmmm. I think my feelings are mine only. And if I feel victimized by a few people here who are literally spewing fire at me, then I'm the one who gets to decide how I feel about it, not you.

Can you please elaborate on what venom I spewed? I'm genuinely curious.

I hope you know I truly care for you and think you're an amazing person! Nothing Im saying here is directed negatively towards you. Just having a healthy educational conversation about differing perspectives of the world

 

[Michi_Violeta]

Bruh... We are getting lost in the sauce... Check this out... This is my point about the REAL issue... The interesting thing is that these terms became widely used RIGHT when occupy wall street was going on... This is a TACTIC and it WORKED... I ask: IS THIS NOT ODD? what is more odd is that IT HAPPENED IN MANY WESTERN COUNTRIES. *Fuckery alarms going off* *WEO WEO WEO WEO* The article I linked to is a great read <3
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BRUHHHHH
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Source: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/media-great-racial-awakening

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No, it's not odd. No, there's no conspiracy sponsored by George Soros to turn the frickin' frogs gay. And no, there's no war on whiteness, no tactics by the International Gay Communist Satanic Committee.

Historic events and social movements raise awareness, it's that simple. It's like saying "How odd is that people are speaking more about Germany's chancellor after all this ruckus in Poland, huh?" or "Fuckery alarm! People are talking more about POC after the Selma to Montgomery marches".

Again, this calls for a civil debate, but peddling conspiracies with poor arguments ain't it chief...

 

[Nobody'sHero]

No, it's not odd. No, there's no conspiracy sponsored by George Soros to turn the frickin' frogs gay. And no, there's no war on whiteness, no tactics by the International Gay Communist Satanic Committee.

Historic events and social movements raise awareness, it's that simple. It's like saying "How odd is that people are speaking more about Germany's chancellor after all this ruckus in Poland, huh?" or "Fuckery alarm! People are talking about negroes after the Selma to Montgomery marches".

Again, this calls for a civil debate, but peddling conspiracies with poor arguments ain't it chief...

I think we have very different points of view and will not be coming to an agreement anytime soon, and that is okay, I am completely fine with that. I do not only see a war on whiteness, I see a war on all of us. I also do not agree that the increase in racial rhetoric and liberal ideologies is just due to raised social awareness. I also believe that checking people's privilege will solve absolutely nothing. That's just me though...

 

[tercermundista]

I guess it's the only thing i am be favored at in life. I'm PROUD to be WHITE. PROUD!

 

[Michi_Violeta]

I think we have very different points of view and will not be coming to an agreement anytime soon, and that is okay, I am completely fine with that. I do not only see a war on whiteness, I see a war on all of us. I also do not agree that the increase in racial rhetoric and liberal ideologies is just due to raised social awareness. I also believe that checking people's privilege will solve absolutely nothing. That's just me though...

Sadly, it's not just you and a mindset like that is what's giving power all over the world to those who deliberately target and hurt people like me or others here just for our ethnicity, nationality or gender identity.

You may not want to hear it and it's okay if we can't come to an agreement, but don't pretend it's harmless when people in a suicide forum are telling you "Yes, this exists and it's harmed me."

 

[Nobody'sHero]

.... deliberately target and hurt people like me or others here just for our ethnicity, nationality or gender identity.

I will never be and never have been okay with deliberately hurting people just for their ethnicity, nationality, or gender identity. I also don't pretend it does not happen, ofcourse it happens and, sadly, will always happen.

You may not want to hear it and it's okay if we can't come to an agreement, but don't pretend it's harmless when people in a suicide forum are telling you "Yes, this exists and it's harmed me."

This goes both ways and I agree with you on this... When you tell a group of people that their culture/ethnicity/race is not under attack when they clearly feel like it is will only make the divide larger and more extreme because their worries are not being listened to and are ridiculed. You are doing the exact same thing you are accusing others of doing. "Yes, this exists and it's harmed me." Movements like the following video will continue to surface and will only become more extreme because of this. I invite you to watch the video and listen to the concerns that are being vocalized by many people around the world. Not only white people.. Like I have said many times before, we are all in this together... I am Mexican and not only do I share many of the same concerns expressed by this Irish man, but also see many of the same tactics applied in my country. Like I've said many times, we are in this together...

 

[mikgazer6]

I like it. Latino and nordic mix. Tall, tan, young appearance, amazing hair, eligibility for inclusion programs. I've only had one bad experience so far (with a police officer), a few instances of subtle racism, and sometimes my lack of enthusiasm offends people who take pride in our shared culture but that part is alright.

 

[sadsoni]

We are all in this together

 

[Killmeonce]

I see where you are coming from and I'm very sorry that happened to your friends. I'm aware this goes on, but it is what it is... Like I said in a previous post, pretty much every racial group has racists due to in group favouritism. Ask a 100% Chinese person what they think about black people, or mexicans, or even other asians... Ask certain black people what they think about white people... The point I'm trying to make is that it's not just isolated to white-black racism. I know for SURE mexicans are super racists. I guess I just have a very different opinion about this stuff. Again, this is just me, but I don't really care if someone calls me ethnic slurs... Not just that, I believe this is way bigger than race and if we are stuck making it about race then we will never be able to solve the real issue, which is ALL of us getting fucked by the systems set up in our respective countries... I'm not trying to offend anyone and to a certain point idc if I do, this is just the way I see it... Independent of race, white, black, yellow, green, blue, red, bosnian, I pretty much dislike everyone hahahaha

I'm gonna try and make this the last thing I say on this, as I feel like this thread is losing its way from the original question posed. But you say we shouldn't make it about race in relation to my post. But can't you see that it's the racist perpetrator that is making it about race and not the reciever? And you've also contradicted yourself, because your earlier posts talk a lot about discrimination against white people and how angry it makes you. You also backed deadbidaylight up when they spoke about their race issues. You yourself do seem to be concerned with race discrimination, but maybe only where it relates to a particular race. You also earlier spoke about inclusivity policies. Well, the reason why it was brought in was because of racism and sexism in the workplace. Employers were openly discriminating against black and brown people and sometimes women in general. Companies brought in inclusivity policies to stop their employers from racist hiring. Disney is an example of this, they were an openly racist company for years. Rasicm isn't just slurs. And it has consequences. I'm not saying I agree with dei, but if racism and sexism didn't exist then there would be no need for it. You can act like racism is not a big deal, but this is the consequence. And studies and statistics have shown that white women benefit the most from DEI anyway, but no one mentions or seems to mind it so much.

 

[delta2]

Growing up Afro latino in white suburbia did kind of a number on me in terms of how I see myself. I used to lie about my genetics on the regular since I'm already crazy mixed just to fit in, I've been told by a crush that I have to be a secret from her family, and I grew accustomed to all my wrongdoings being treated like war crimes. Adding mental illness to the picture just males people fearful of me. The second I become symptomatic in any way like a raised voice and some tears, its purse clutching time.

 

[fallingtopieces]

Being hispanic is dope, spaniards are fuego.

Race/ethnicity have been used interchangeably by other users on this thread and often go hand in hand. As far as "white privilege", it is a very interesting topic and we can honestly go back and fourth all day due to the complexity. There is a clear anti-white rhetoric going on and I ask: Would this be acceptable and deemed as racist if we replaced "white" with "black", "asian", etc.

I also remember the "mostly peaceful" BLM riots across major US cities in 2020. Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone (CHAZ) that kicked out all the racist police officers only to beg for them to do something after a murder happened. There are also crime statistics by race viewed from the pov of the percentage of each race when compared to the total population of the united states...

Again, we can be here all day, this will be my last post because I do not want to argue on a board with people that I identify with on such a sensitive and profound topic (suicide). Love is our only weapons against hate and I think we can all benefit from putting ourselves in other people's shoes. I really do believe we are on the same boat and we will only be able to accomplish great things once we all realize this. While the poor browns/whites/indians/blacks/english/spanish/jamaican's fight with each other, the rich browns/whites/indians/blacks/english/spanish/jamaican's vacation together in the Hamptons laughing at us all. I love you all and I am grateful for finding SaSu. <3

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you say you don't want to argue on a board with people u identify with. yet you keep throwing out tons of cherrypicked nonsense which looks to me like stuff you'd probably find passed around far right groups and racists. stuff that has whispers of conspiracy theories rather than evidence. where people never actually read the articles, just whatever little is needed to start frothing from the mouth.

poc finally start to talk about racism openly in the wider discourse and guess what happens? you get people who put together collages of newspaper headlines that are basically trying to shut down that discourse. but you're doing what's to be expected. you are helping power maintain its power because power never wants to give itself up, a backlash is to be expected.

you say we are all in this together, but have you read some of the stuff you've written? cuz i have and i didn't even have to read between the lines much...

but u know what, fuck this thread, the reason it even exists is rooted in racism.

and by all means, add me to your ignore list. i welcome it. and i actually am done with this thread.

 

[onlyformyself]

I love my ethnicity, skin color and tribe and sex am really proud of it but unfortunately I was born into a worst parents, genetics and family

 

[MathConspiracy]

I feel like ranting so here we go.

About the discussion that's been going on in here, why are we engaging in heated debates concerning our genetics? Our community is already under watch. The goal of the pro-lifers is to separate us, to decentralize this movement. We should not argue over things we can do nothing about. This is not the place for discussing "white privilege".

And yes, I'm a proud European.

 

[anonymouswebuser]

Yes, I hate it
sometimes more than necessary
because it's associated with fucked up and unfunny jokes and it never died out
I guess it's just -so funny- to keep calling someone a terrorist when you're losing an argument.

 

[yomander369]

Generally no. I'm mixed Asian and Hispanic. but I do feel inferior to beautiful white women in their presence.

 

[Bootleg Astolfo]

THE URGE TO MAKE A JOKE ABOUT THE FACT THAT THIS KIND OF THREAD IS ON A SITE CALLED SS, AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

[brokeandbroken]

It's funny how everything got messed up by a certain user who can't differentiate between race and ethnicity. As if she were the only white person on the forum lol This is the second thread she's ruined.. To make matters worse, after throwing out her venom she plays the victim.

I mean while you are technically correct in places like the UK for example 'white' is actually used as a ethnicity by the office of national statistics. It kind of makes sense in the US. For example I am a mutt. I have done ancestry.com I am literally 9 or so different things. You think I have strong ties to all of those? Or really any? I don't have particularly strong feelings about being white either it just is. Also I have also lived places where I don't speak the native language. That said it makes some logical sense when you realize my ancestors all moved places. American isn't an ethnicity. Does that mean I just don't have one? It becomes convoluted. I could say I am German/Austrian (Prussian really), English, Swedish, French (also French Canadian), Norwegian, Polish, Irish, Jewish, and Dutch. Or.... Just say I am white. Also Caucasian is being encouraged to not be used by whoever the hell decides those things. Maybe I am an extreme example. Also if specificity is the salient aspect. Even within countries different cultures exist. So say you are Jewish well what kind? Or Polish slavic, kashubian, ? Is it messed up?

You said you are Spanish/Italian? What kind of Italian? There's twenty regions? Which are you? Spain is even Crazier Basque? Galician? Andalusian? Asturian? Navarin? etc... Spain has literal autonomous communities. Yet you are saying you are Spanish not one of these specific communities why? Easier? Maybe you are hoping someone would ask you which one. Instead of just saying basically what kind of white are you? You just attacked her for semi correct verbiage.

I'm sorry I'm just going to say one more thing on white privilege here after reading more of this thread

In America black woman are almost 3X more likely to die giving birth than a white woman. Canada won't even produce real data on it but we do know from past data that black woman are close to 2X more likely to have adverse experiences in pregnancy (preterm babies, extended hospitalization etc) so I'd imagine mortality falls somewhere close to that.

If this isn't pronounced enough white privilege man I don't even know what could be? Those statistics enrage me, and I'm not even black.

I mean poor people, regardless of race, are the most victimized class of people in the world. Absolutely. Not everything is about race, it just absolutely exists. If you're poor you're screwed no matter what

Look every single death white, black, whatever it doesn't matter is a tragedy. That said the issue with these numbers is they are blowing up small numbers to be big. According to google In 2022 3.6 million babies were born (yes the numbers wouldn't work out for so many reasons and I could probably just find the actual numbers but this is more fun). To give some idea of scale according to 2023 that's almost 1,000,000 more people then live in Chicago. Let's see what the difference in deaths are.... To show my work google gives me for 2021 69.9 per 100,000 x 36 you get 2516.4 deaths for black women. 26.6 per 100,000 for white women. 957.6. Or a difference of 1558 deaths. In 3,600,000 births. The difference is under 2,000. That's pretty astounding. IN 2022 these numbers were both less. This also leaves out a like people from different places have different genetics. For instance people from Northern Europe (5% for Americans with ancestry and I think something like 25% for people living in nordic countries) have a significantly higher risk of factor v leiden mutation (risk is miscarriage) and black people especially sub Saharan Africa have significantly higher risk of sickle cell (1 in 365 and 1 in 13 for sickle cell trait). In fact per 100,000 the risk difference per 100,000 is somewhere between 13 and 35. That's two diseases. Then you can get into many other things like lifestyle choices. Spoiler by the time you get to the bottom of everything you find the difference is negligible. It borders on preposterous to say legions of doctors in the US are going through the grueling task of becoming a doctor. 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school taking on hundreds of thousands of dollars and then residency which pays about 60k a year. To then say you know I am going to go fuck over some black women just for funzees. Is there probably some? Yep. Probably a few out there. But mass amounts get out of here. Why in the hell would you risk losing your income, your job, your license what you've spent your life doing when you could incredibly easily go get paid more to kill babies at planned parenthood where more black babies die every year in New York City then are born. Want racism look into the eyes of Sanger.

Edit: I found the numbers for the record for consistency in 2021 a high year for deaths (covid?) 503 white mothers died, 362 black, 248 Hispanic, 29 Asian. 3.66 million babies born. 1205 deaths total across all races. 2018 had 658, 2019 754, 861 2020, 2022, 817.

 

[yomander369]

I like it. Latino and nordic mix. Tall, tan, young appearance, amazing hair, eligibility for inclusion programs. I've only had one bad experience so far (with a police officer), a few instances of subtle racism, and sometimes my lack of enthusiasm offends people who take pride in our shared culture but that part is alright.

You are probably so beautiful.