Does a cure exist?

[hopelessgirl]

Does a cure for the symptom "suicidal" even exist? Or should there even be one? Maybe there can't be one, if suicide can be a rational choice. Are there even anyone in this world who fully understands the mechanism behind this state? What does a human being need in order to want to live? Or die? Is it too late for us since we've already started to "dig our grave"?

For me, I feel like it's too late now, since I've wanted to die since 2016. And I feel more and more dead. Less and less like myself. The walls are closing in. I don't know if there is anything that can bring me back. But as you can see, I am still curious to know. I would like to understand. Maybe this is just the last of my SI speaking. I'm on antidepressants, and don't really have anxiety or depression anymore, but I still want to die.

 

[Sea Turtle]

Hard to say. There's too many factors that go into it. On one hand, depression can be the main factor of suicidality, but that's a gross oversimplification, and depression can sometimes be "cured". But not all suicidal people are depressed. I feel like at a certain point when the suicidality becomes chronic and rational, there is no "cure" it merely becomes when does the point in which it's rationally the correct choice.

 

[YourNeighbor]

There are many reasons why people become suicidal, and many ways to get out of that mentality. Most people who have suicidal thoughts never attempt, and most who attempt and fail never try again. So we know that for most people who are suicidal, suicide is not the objectively rational choice. One need look no further than this site, where comment after comment references suicidality as stemming from temporary issues or problems that can be alleviated if not fully fixed, or suicidality exhibited by kids with no life experience, and therefore no possible way to know if things can improve. It's hard to recognize that we can be irrational, because from our own perspective, we assume that everything we are convinced about is the result of rational thought. Many "cures" are much more likely with sustained intervention--depression, anxiety, trauma/PTSD etc. are all problems that can be treated in most cases (even if not all), for example, but none are quick-fixes that someone can just "snap out of." I'm sure that's not news.

 

[SpaceCadet]

I watched some youtube video a long time a go which touched this subject and i found one of the solutions for this interesting. It basically said that suicidal people can find the will to live by participating in a strong close-knit type of community, giving them sense of belonging and a deeper meaning for life. Like some religious groups find meaning in God and helping each other, but that wouldn't work for me, as i can't believe in gods. It works for some people.

 

[Sherri]

I tried suciced around 11 times. I had to go and see many crap doctors and spent lost of money before I got the one that made things better for me. Since I saw him 2 years go, same time I joined ss. I don't have the drive to hurt myself anymore or be suicidal. Do you have any medical help? If so I can tell you what worked for me and you can discuss it with 2 doctors, when I joined ss all I wanted was my sn. Now all I'm trying is to stay alive and take each day that comes, some are good, some more low, but I'll tell you what the good days outcome the bad days. A big hug. And if you seeing a doctor lemme know, I will gladly send you what I,m taking. Only 3 things.

 

[lili]

My psychiatrist told me that contrary to what therapists think, there is no medication that will treat suicide. I guess that is why they don't want to prescribe me medications anymore, since I've attempted suicide so much on medications.

I did experience a few years recently where I did not experience suicidal thoughts, three or four, before this year. I think if you have a lot of suicidal thoughts, the best way to deal is to try to change your circumstances dramatically.

I moved to a different city, started working instead of going to school, stopped doing drugs, exercises and changed my diet. This all happened shortly after a suicide attempt I had.
However, I didn't do all the things at the same time, I did it one by one and it takes time. And also it's really hard to do. Especially find an excuse to stop drinking, for me I was drinking a bottle of wine every day at that time.

I guess at the moment I was stuck thinking well I hate to be alive, but I've tried suicide so many times and I've failed. But I didn't want to be miserable, so I had a whole fuck the world moment and I decided to drop out of my school projects, decided to loose contact with my friends and left. It was extreme, but somehow that dramatic life shift brought me a better life, and for the first time in a while I did not experience suicidal thoughts in 3-4 years. Because leaving that environment and friends helped deal with my suicidal thoughts.

I know this might not be for everyone, but hope this somehow helps in thinking about suicide. I think if you suffer it chronically, at that rate it's circunstancial and/or philosophical.

 

[FuneralCry]

I believe that wanting suicide can be perfectly rational in a world like this. There is unlimited potential for suffering after all. Of course the only way for people to stop being suicidal, is to remove what is causing them to want to ctb in the first place and in many cases, this cannot be done. Many people are trapped in hopeless situations, life is very cruel and unfair and that is the harsh reality of this life. Many people can be suicidal as they simply do not see life as being worth living, in my case I do not want to put up with pointless suffering for decades, I see life as being completely meaningless. I do not understand how people can want to live, how could anyone want to live in such a horrible world. I am sorry that you are suffering. I wish you the best.

 

[WhiteDespair]

yep. I earned an accomplishment. it changed my perspective.

 

[Darkover]

there's no cure for feeling suicidal imagine being in a relationship for 50 years and then for one of them to die nothing will ever be able to cure that amount of pain of loseing a love one

 

[ikadasui]

I was convinced I'd be dead by 18-21 so I completely sabotaged any chance for a good future which is a pretty common theme with depression. So even though I'm not dead I have no footholds to lean on so to speak and completely deteriorating health both physical and mental, also the world doesn't wait or give people a shot to catch up so if you slip even once it's usually cut and scene unless you have a good support group

I believe that wanting suicide can be perfectly rational in a world like this. There is unlimited potential for suffering after all. Of course the only way for people to stop being suicidal, is to remove what is causing them to want to ctb in the first place and in many cases, this cannot be done. Many people are trapped in hopeless situations, life is very cruel and unfair and that is the harsh reality of this life. Many people can be suicidal as they simply do not see life as being worth living, in my case I do not want to put up with pointless suffering for decades, I see life as being completely meaningless. I do not understand how people can want to live, how could anyone want to live in such a horrible world. I am sorry that you are suffering. I wish you the best.

It truly is unfathomable how humans have survived as long as we have. I can't even imagine just how miserable the poor must of have been a few thousands years ago since even with all the luxuries afforded to us today It's still intolerable.

 

[hopelessgirl]

There are many reasons why people become suicidal, and many ways to get out of that mentality. Most people who have suicidal thoughts never attempt, and most who attempt and fail never try again. So we know that for most people who are suicidal, suicide is not the objectively rational choice. One need look no further than this site, where comment after comment references suicidality as stemming from temporary issues or problems that can be alleviated if not fully fixed, or suicidality exhibited by kids with no life experience, and therefore no possible way to know if things can improve. It's hard to recognize that we can be irrational, because from our own perspective, we assume that everything we are convinced about is the result of rational thought. Many "cures" are much more likely with sustained intervention--depression, anxiety, trauma/PTSD etc. are all problems that can be treated in most cases (even if not all), for example, but none are quick-fixes that someone can just "snap out of." I'm sure that's not news.

Thank you for this You're right that it's for sure not a quick fix yes...

My psychiatrist told me that contrary to what therapists think, there is no medication that will treat suicide. I guess that is why they don't want to prescribe me medications anymore, since I've attempted suicide so much on medications.

I did experience a few years recently where I did not experience suicidal thoughts, three or four, before this year. I think if you have a lot of suicidal thoughts, the best way to deal is to try to change your circumstances dramatically.

I moved to a different city, started working instead of going to school, stopped doing drugs, exercises and changed my diet. This all happened shortly after a suicide attempt I had.
However, I didn't do all the things at the same time, I did it one by one and it takes time. And also it's really hard to do. Especially find an excuse to stop drinking, for me I was drinking a bottle of wine every day at that time.

I guess at the moment I was stuck thinking well I hate to be alive, but I've tried suicide so many times and I've failed. But I didn't want to be miserable, so I had a whole fuck the world moment and I decided to drop out of my school projects, decided to loose contact with my friends and left. It was extreme, but somehow that dramatic life shift brought me a better life, and for the first time in a while I did not experience suicidal thoughts in 3-4 years. Because leaving that environment and friends helped deal with my suicidal thoughts.

I know this might not be for everyone, but hope this somehow helps in thinking about suicide. I think if you suffer it chronically, at that rate it's circunstancial and/or philosophical.

Wow! Good job! You're very brave. Thank you for sharing.

 

[lunarflower]

And how am I to face the odds
Of man's bedevilment and God's?
I, a stranger and afraid
In a world I never made.

 

[hopelessgirl]

yep. I earned an accomplishment. it changed my perspective.

What kind of accomplishment? How did it change your perspective?

I tried suciced around 11 times. I had to go and see many crap doctors and spent lost of money before I got the one that made things better for me. Since I saw him 2 years go, same time I joined ss. I don't have the drive to hurt myself anymore or be suicidal. Do you have any medical help? If so I can tell you what worked for me and you can discuss it with 2 doctors, when I joined ss all I wanted was my sn. Now all I'm trying is to stay alive and take each day that comes, some are good, some more low, but I'll tell you what the good days outcome the bad days. A big hug. And if you seeing a doctor lemme know, I will gladly send you what I,m taking. Only 3 things.

Thank you so much. I am currently seeing a doctor so if you could send it to me that would be great.

There are many reasons why people become suicidal, and many ways to get out of that mentality. Most people who have suicidal thoughts never attempt, and most who attempt and fail never try again. So we know that for most people who are suicidal, suicide is not the objectively rational choice. One need look no further than this site, where comment after comment references suicidality as stemming from temporary issues or problems that can be alleviated if not fully fixed, or suicidality exhibited by kids with no life experience, and therefore no possible way to know if things can improve. It's hard to recognize that we can be irrational, because from our own perspective, we assume that everything we are convinced about is the result of rational thought. Many "cures" are much more likely with sustained intervention--depression, anxiety, trauma/PTSD etc. are all problems that can be treated in most cases (even if not all), for example, but none are quick-fixes that someone can just "snap out of." I'm sure that's not news.

Thank you for a well thought through answer. Yeah I guess I knew that there is no quick fix... It's difficult to explain why I want to die, because I don't really have any major problems really. Right now I'm on disability money for bipolar disorder, and I will receive guidance to maybe find a new line of work, or to be put on disability for the rest of my life. Don't know yet. But I just don't appreciate life the same way anymore as I did. And I'm not really sure if my way of experiencing life really can be fixed. There will be many occasions where I'll be low for the rest of my life. And I feel like my personality and general way of being is just detoriating more and more towards being miserable as being a part of my personality. Sorry if this doesn't make any sense. You're probably right that it is irrational, and that's probably why it's so difficult to put into words.

 

[WhiteDespair]

@hopelessgirl

a promotion and a raise. hilariously, it's what I was looking for when I first came to this site. it was amusing to go to an interview the same day you're looking up how much ssri it takes to overdose. don't think it would've been the same if I had just applied somewhere and gotten the job that way. the earning it was important.

perspective
1. there was an increase in confidence
2. there was evidence now of a success (important for recovery!!!)
3. I made the choice to roll with the happiness that came from the event instead of waiting for the hammer to drop and depression to set it.
4. the hammer never dropped. if it did, it was of no consequence.
5. I stopped caring about things. not in an apathetic way. more of an "I don't give a fuck" manner. it was like, "I can handle what comes up."
6. this created a positive feedback loop and the good vibes just kept increasing
7. people in the office got a different view of me and even people who tolerated me were a lot more open and friendly.
8. I finally let myself free. in a sense, I became a sober version of a drunk me. alcohol was used to be more social, more extroverted and more personable. now, I don't need that.
9. I started getting a TON of attention from women. I went from not being able to talk to a woman to being given a phone number on Valentine's Day. in 9 months.
10. a lot of stuff I learned over the years clicked into place.
11. I went to a friend's board game night. I was the hit of the party. (evidence!!!)
12. I became able to laugh at myself and my screw ups. I became able to use self-deprecating humor for laughs.
13. I became much less tolerant of bad behavior. I became more direct and blunt. it's not
14. When I found that I had dug myself into a hole, I kept digging. things pretty much turned out ok when I did that.
15. due to covid, my backlog at work increased to high levels. I came to see this as hilarious and just wanted to see how high my number of tasks would get to. I accepted that it was going to get done when it gets done and that's when it will be done.
16. I reframed my "failures" with women into successes. as someone with poorly treated adhd and depression I got a lot further than I would have expected.
17. I accepted and embraced my vicious side. all those years of abuse and neglect left me with that darkness. I accepted that it was a part of me.
18. I found that my public persona didn't match my private persona. that was a rough 2 months while I came to that realization.
19. the only real times when the negative thoughts crept in were when I took a bunch of extra sertraline.
20. evidence is key. when the thoughts of "I'm a failure" "I have no friends" "nobody likes me" etc. came into my head I had direct evidence to prove the contrary. those thoughts lose bite when you can show they're false.

 

[hopelessgirl]

@hopelessgirl

a promotion and a raise. hilariously, it's what I was looking for when I first came to this site. it was amusing to go to an interview the same day you're looking up how much ssri it takes to overdose. don't think it would've been the same if I had just applied somewhere and gotten the job that way. the earning it was important.

perspective
1. there was an increase in confidence
2. there was evidence now of a success (important for recovery!!!)
3. I made the choice to roll with the happiness that came from the event instead of waiting for the hammer to drop and depression to set it.
4. the hammer never dropped. if it did, it was of no consequence.
5. I stopped caring about things. not in an apathetic way. more of an "I don't give a fuck" manner. it was like, "I can handle what comes up."
6. this created a positive feedback loop and the good vibes just kept increasing
7. people in the office got a different view of me and even people who tolerated me were a lot more open and friendly.
8. I finally let myself free. in a sense, I became a sober version of a drunk me. alcohol was used to be more social, more extroverted and more personable. now, I don't need that.
9. I started getting a TON of attention from women. I went from not being able to talk to a woman to being given a phone number on Valentine's Day. in 9 months.
10. a lot of stuff I learned over the years clicked into place.
11. I went to a friend's board game night. I was the hit of the party. (evidence!!!)
12. I became able to laugh at myself and my screw ups. I became able to use self-deprecating humor for laughs.
13. I became much less tolerant of bad behavior. I became more direct and blunt. it's not
14. When I found that I had dug myself into a hole, I kept digging. things pretty much turned out ok when I did that.
15. due to covid, my backlog at work increased to high levels. I came to see this as hilarious and just wanted to see how high my number of tasks would get to. I accepted that it was going to get done when it gets done and that's when it will be done.
16. I reframed my "failures" with women into successes. as someone with poorly treated adhd and depression I got a lot further than I would have expected.
17. I accepted and embraced my vicious side. all those years of abuse and neglect left me with that darkness. I accepted that it was a part of me.
18. I found that my public persona didn't match my private persona. that was a rough 2 months while I came to that realization.
19. the only real times when the negative thoughts crept in were when I took a bunch of extra sertraline.
20. evidence is key. when the thoughts of "I'm a failure" "I have no friends" "nobody likes me" etc. came into my head I had direct evidence to prove the contrary. those thoughts lose bite when you can show they're false.

Thank you for writing all this. I hope my lazy brain can take some inspiration out of this and implement this in my life as well.

@hopelessgirl

a promotion and a raise. hilariously, it's what I was looking for when I first came to this site. it was amusing to go to an interview the same day you're looking up how much ssri it takes to overdose. don't think it would've been the same if I had just applied somewhere and gotten the job that way. the earning it was important.

perspective
1. there was an increase in confidence
2. there was evidence now of a success (important for recovery!!!)
3. I made the choice to roll with the happiness that came from the event instead of waiting for the hammer to drop and depression to set it.
4. the hammer never dropped. if it did, it was of no consequence.
5. I stopped caring about things. not in an apathetic way. more of an "I don't give a fuck" manner. it was like, "I can handle what comes up."
6. this created a positive feedback loop and the good vibes just kept increasing
7. people in the office got a different view of me and even people who tolerated me were a lot more open and friendly.
8. I finally let myself free. in a sense, I became a sober version of a drunk me. alcohol was used to be more social, more extroverted and more personable. now, I don't need that.
9. I started getting a TON of attention from women. I went from not being able to talk to a woman to being given a phone number on Valentine's Day. in 9 months.
10. a lot of stuff I learned over the years clicked into place.
11. I went to a friend's board game night. I was the hit of the party. (evidence!!!)
12. I became able to laugh at myself and my screw ups. I became able to use self-deprecating humor for laughs.
13. I became much less tolerant of bad behavior. I became more direct and blunt. it's not
14. When I found that I had dug myself into a hole, I kept digging. things pretty much turned out ok when I did that.
15. due to covid, my backlog at work increased to high levels. I came to see this as hilarious and just wanted to see how high my number of tasks would get to. I accepted that it was going to get done when it gets done and that's when it will be done.
16. I reframed my "failures" with women into successes. as someone with poorly treated adhd and depression I got a lot further than I would have expected.
17. I accepted and embraced my vicious side. all those years of abuse and neglect left me with that darkness. I accepted that it was a part of me.
18. I found that my public persona didn't match my private persona. that was a rough 2 months while I came to that realization.
19. the only real times when the negative thoughts crept in were when I took a bunch of extra sertraline.
20. evidence is key. when the thoughts of "I'm a failure" "I have no friends" "nobody likes me" etc. came into my head I had direct evidence to prove the contrary. those thoughts lose bite when you can show they're false.

I'll try to give less of a fuck. I'll stay sober. Laugh more of myself and my screwups (I used to be better at that when I was younger). Keep digging (not sure if I believe in this one but ok). Embrace vicious side. And evidence :-)

 

[WhiteDespair]

persistence is another word which is interchangable with "keep digging." however, you choose to describe persistence that works for you is perfect.

here's a couple examples.

1. I watched a video of dark/offensive comedy. I ran into a woman wearing a shirt whose character was referenced in the video. I mentioned that I knew a funny joke to her because of the shirt. She stated that she wanted to hear it. well, that joke referenced her. that's when I realized that I stuck my foot in my mouth. now, I was stuck between looking like a loser by not showing her the video and risking offense by showing the video. I decided to show her the video. she didn't get to the referenced joke but she gave me her number so I could send the video her.

2. I was at a wedding reception. I had too many drinks so I stayed outside of the hotel room until I sobered up enough to function, which was, say 10pm. right before I opened the door I heard some female say that she had to be curt and say "ok" to me just to get me to go away. then, I heard my friend laugh and say that I was okay. I had been making attempts at being social during the night and to hear that was a knife in the heart. I spent the rest of the night outside and alone in 40 degree weather wearing only a somewhat thick sweatshirt. between zoning out completely and my brain saying "you're going to die" whenever I violently shivered, I weighed the options of swimming as far as I could in the nearby lake until hypothermia caused me to drown, sleeping in my car or going into the room and continuing to try and be social. I decided to continue trying to be social and went into the room. it was 5am so no one was awake when I went into the room. I did have a good time during the wedding and I didn't ruin it by my actions.

3. often times at work misunderstandings occur because, well, people can take the same information in different ways. many, many times working at the information with the other person gets everone on the same page and clarifies the info. to get there I often had to keep poking at things or asking in the incorrect way until we sorted out the misunderstanding. and, yeah, that has happened between me and my manager as well as others with similar positions. one time in particular was when someone needed to be added to a specific team and it took me several attempts to get the correct name from the other manager. we finally saw what each other was saying when I said that I didn't know how to spell the team name.

I say "keep digging" because I am constantly screwing up or putting my foot in my mouth and rejection sensitive dysphoria means that what appears to me as a devastating faux pas, actually isn't. so, I dug myself into a hole and digging further (persistence) gets me out of it. not to mention that people are quite forgiving when everyone understands that a misunderstanding is the root of the issue.

it's also a more amusing way of saying "keep at it."