Do you think what is said in goodbye threads is considered ‘encouraging suicide’?

[it's_all_a_game]

No, of course not. There's nothing wrong in telling someone who's about to ctb "I wish you peace", as it's empathetic to the person & their struggles. It's only encouraging to pro-life retards whose take on catching the bus is no more nuanced than "SUICIDE EVIL!!!oneoneone!!"

 

[Circles]

No, of course not. There's nothing wrong in telling someone who's about to ctb "I wish you peace", as it's empathetic to the person & their struggles. It's only encouraging to pro-life retards whose take on catching the bus is no more nuanced than "SUICIDE EVIL!!!oneoneone!!"

I feel like I'm not being understood in this thread. I'm not saying everything that is said in goodbye threads is bad like the example you gave which doesn't sound like encouraging whatsoever. But there are other examples that people say in goodbye threads that could be mistaken, misinterpreted, or actual seen as encouraging by people outside this forum. I'm just trying to do damage control or whatever it's called cause I feel like since this site is getting more publicity there should (in my own stupid opinion okay) be some changes. I know none of y'all will listen but I just simply feel if this site is to survive then it has to adapt somehow just like how the mods added a recovery section so it doesn't make this site look pro suicide.

 

[it's_all_a_game]

Why SHOULD there be "changes"? These people won't be happy until this site is eradicated off the face of the Earth!

I, for one, will continue to wish those about to pass a peaceful journey, no matter what.

 

[Circles]

Why SHOULD there be "changes"? These people won't be happy until this site is eradicated off the face of the Earth!

I, for one, will continue to wish those about to pass a peaceful journey, no matter what.

I know there won't be changes cause no one listens to me. I already stated why there should be some changes. God forbid this site makes drastic changes just to survive. I know most normal people won't be happy until this site dies, but by making some things banned that are seen as 'encouraging' like the live blogging then maybe we can survive. Like goddamn is it that hard to imagine the disgust most people would be if they hear that a kid live streamed their suicide, found a partner, and used a method that's easily accessible (not anymore) all in one website?

Also if I may add all this publicly is going to make finding methods like SN even harder given how the article alone named the SN method by its full name which they never done before. The more this site gets shit on for 'encouraging' in whatever way the more harder it will be to find methods. Just my opinion, but hey whatever.

 

[Darkover]

more importantly, ban people who propose suicide methods that are harmful to others like "playing in traffic" or "homemade bomb" type of posters.

if government gave people their right to die people wouldn't have to throw themselves under a train or blow themselves to pieces or jump into oncoming traffic, or drive their car into a wall or another car the governments at fault for enslaving everyone to live out their misery, the more death and destruction there is the quick this will all be over

 

[Pure]

Depends on how you define "encouragement". Does lack of action (in this case not dissuading someone from suicide) automatically count as encouragement? Maybe, maybe not.

But big important thing to remember: majority of people do NOT want to die alone, even people committing suicide.

 

[wanttogetonthebus]

Depends on how you define "encouragement". Does lack of action (in this case not dissuading someone from suicide) automatically count as encouragement? Maybe, maybe not.

But big important thing to remember: majority of people do NOT want to die alone, even people committing suicide.

I'd agree with that. In general... People don't want to live alone. And they don't want to die alone. We're social animals. And we're all 100% going to die whether we like it or not. Places like this should continue to exist because whether in life or close to death, being social with people who we can connect with enriches our lives while we're still here.

 

[Circles]

Depends on how you define "encouragement". Does lack of action (in this case not dissuading someone from suicide) automatically count as encouragement? Maybe, maybe not.

But big important thing to remember: majority of people do NOT want to die alone, even people committing suicide.

By what I've seen discussed on Twitter, Reddit and this article everything that's said on this site is considered 'encouraging' by prolifers. My point of view is that I can somewhat agree with the outsiders that some things about the site seems questionable from the outside looking in at the very least.

Plus if anything needs to be considered is that live blogging occurs outside this forum and we do not know what is said to these members while they attempt and whether what is said is considered 'encouraging suicide' or not. Yes it's lonely to die but from an outsiders point of view it's morbid as fuck to have others watch you kill yourself and that's not me stating this it's what I've seen people say on Reddit and Twitter. I mean seriously if a kid ctb and live streams it to others how is that going to make the site look? Oh that's right no one cares here cause I guess y'all want to live stream also.

 

[WrongPlaceWrongTime]

Encouraging would be ushering them to go through with it. All I have seen in goodbye threads are people showing acceptance of their decision, with occasional reminders that it is not too late to turn back.

 

[Elegy]

For me personally, goodbye threads evoke empathy, not encouragement. And I am forced to ask myself, what matters most. Me, My Life... or them and theirs. Their pain is much worse. So. Empathy, much more than encouragement. And empathy is never a bad thing.

 

[deflationary]

Yes it's lonely to die but from an outsiders point of view it's morbid as fuck to have others watch you kill yourself and that's not me stating this it's what I've seen people say on Reddit and Twitter.

I care much more about the loneliness of the person that's dying than the morbid disgust that these people feel. Their feelings literally don't matter on this question. None of their business.

 

[Pure]

I care much more about the loneliness of the person that's dying than the morbid disgust that these people feel. Their feelings literally don't matter on this question. None of their business.

Non suicidal weirdos: come to the suicide website to leer
Non suicidal weirdos: pickachu face at people talking about suicide

 

[Circles]

I care much more about the loneliness of the person that's dying than the morbid disgust that these people feel. Their feelings literally don't matter on this question. None of their business.

I do also and wish people who ctb could have people beside them and support them through it in a safe place, but that doesn't exist unless you get assisted suicide. The only option is live streaming but even then it makes the site look questionable given how we don't know who's watching them or what they're saying. And after reading about others who watch them die it can be traumatizing. Does even the possibility that some creeps, sick fucks, etc. watching you or others in your final moments not bother any of you? And seriously don't say 'I don't care as long as someone is with me in my final moments.'

 

[deflationary]

I do also and wish people who ctb could have people beside them and support them through it in a safe place, but that doesn't exist unless you get assisted suicide. The only option is live streaming but even then it makes the site look questionable given how we don't know who's watching them or what they're saying. And after reading about others who watch them die it can be traumatizing. Does even the possibility that some creeps, sick fucks, etc. watching you or others in your final moments not bother any of you? And seriously don't say 'I don't care as long as someone is with me in my final moments.'

Are we talking about literal video streams or just live blogging it in goodbye threads? I wouldn't stream it, no. That's a pretty damn rare thing in any case, no? Most people aren't comfortable with doing that. If someone is then more power to them. I don't feel the need to stop them. In any case, that doesn't happen on this site.

In my case, I probably also wouldn't live blog it. But not because some creeps might take pleasure in it or whatever. I've never seen that happen here so it seems like empty fear-mongering. Most people here are compassionate. And if there was some lone random creep that enjoys it without speaking up... I wouldn't really care?

 

[Circles]

Are we talking about literal video streams or just live blogging it in goodbye threads? I wouldn't stream it, no. That's a pretty damn rare thing in any case, no? Most people aren't comfortable with doing that. If someone is then more power to them. I don't feel the need to stop them. In any case, that doesn't happen on this site.

In my case, I probably also wouldn't live blog it. But not because some creeps might take pleasure in it or whatever. I've never seen that happen here so it seems like empty fear-mongering. Most people here are compassionate. And if there was some lone random creep that enjoys it without speaking up... I wouldn't really care?

Live streaming off the site, but there are people who post threads on here asking if anyone would want to watch them. Which btw if they asked for literally anyone then I guarantee some random creeps will take advantage of the situation however small in number they are on here. Even though it may be rare, there's still the possibility and especially if it's off site then we don't know what is said to the members who are ctb or if it's considered encouraging. Plus another thing that comes to mind is that people who live stream might feel pressured to do it even more given that they're being watched.

Of course you say you don't care lol. My whole point with this thread is trying to make sure people here are safe and aren't encouraged in any way but I guess no one cares about safety. Agree to disagree.

At this point I'm going to stop cause I feel I'm talking to a brick wall. Take care if you can.

 

[Toonloon]

blogging about your last mins on earth is away ppl who have been isolated all their lives to not be alone when they split. I see the human garbage suicide fetishists on here too. but i ignore them. they r gross and disgusting. but they infiltrate everywhere there is misery and pain. thats usually how they get off. those same losers get into rape support forums, incest support forums, child sexual abuse forums, ect. when i attempted my last time i cried because i was all alone. i was so sad i was dying alone and scared. if i had known about this site i would have tried blogging a lil note just so i would not be alone.

 

[deflationary]

Live streaming off the site, but there are people who post threads on here asking if anyone would want to watch them. Which btw if they asked for literally anyone then I guarantee some random creeps will take advantage of the situation however small in number they are on here. Even though it may be rare, there's still the possibility and especially if it's off site then we don't know what is said to the members who are ctb or if it's considered encouraging. Plus another thing that comes to mind is that people who live stream might feel pressured to do it even more given that they're being watched.

Of course you say you don't care lol. My whole point with this thread is trying to make sure people here are safe and aren't encouraged in any way but I guess no one cares about safety. Agree to disagree.

At this point I'm going to stop cause I feel I'm talking to a brick wall. Take care if you can.

Has there ever even been an instance of someone sending out a general invitation for everyone to watch them livestream their death? I mean, I guess it must have at least a couple of times, considering how long this site has been around by now. But why are you acting like it's some huge problem if it pretty much never happens? Is that literally all you're proposing? That invites to livestreams shouldn't be allowed?

I don't disagree that encouragement should be discouraged (heh). This just seems like an empty gesture, I guess.

My original point was about goodbye threads. Are you fine with them?

 

[Circles]

Has there ever even been an instance of someone sending out a general invitation for everyone to watch them livestream their death? I mean, I guess it must have at least a couple of times, considering how long this site has been around by now. But why are you acting like it's some huge problem if it pretty much never happens? Is that literally all you're proposing? That invites to livestreams shouldn't be allowed?

I don't disagree that encouragement should be discouraged (heh). This just seems like an empty gesture, I guess.

My original point was about goodbye threads. Are you fine with them?

Because it was talked about in the article. And not only that they said a young person under 18 live streamed their suicide. It's a problem atleast to me because it makes the site look bad as it's already bad enough we're getting shit on by the media over what we do here. Plus how can one defend live streaming of a minor or teenager?

I never said that I didn't like goodbye threads, I'm completely fine with them atleast. I only brought up goodbye threads because of how the article stated that what was said in goodbye threads was considered 'encouraging suicide'. And even though I've never seen blatant encouraging like 'kill yourself' or whatever, there are things that people say in some goodbye threads that could be misinterpreted or seen to be encouraging.

 

[Zzzzz]

Supporting someone's decision is not coercive. There's nothing morally wrong with respecting someone's decision and wishing them well. What's worse than encouraging words is a physical violation of someone's body and consent, which is what the pro-lifers are doing. They believe in forcing Servitude on people. We respect consent and freedom. Whose stance is more ethical?

 

[WhatDoesTheFoxSay?]

I say, no more compromising. People here used to be very polite and showed a lot of empaty for these complaining parents and relatives, but since they kept name calling us over and over again, and lying endlessly, I have lost all sympathy and respect for them and their grief. They can fuck off with and even choke in their pain.

I take umbrage to the blatant slander put forth by the bad-faith article published by New York Times. I can no longer sit back and allow our community to be sullied further by what is yet another nail in the coffin to the continued existence of pro-choice forums. The testimonies of many who have been lent a listening ear, and who were supported in times of crises have but fallen on deaf ears, as with what little proof there is of coerced suicide. All that to paint the worst possible picture of us. Those who would see us fail would rather turn a blind eye to the festering wounds of society and make us scapegoats for a fire we didn't start in the first place.

I completely agree with @Insomniac. Where is the freedom that the West so prides itself on, when the last vestiges of free speech are being silenced by the oppression that is cancel culture? Whatever we say or do will not change the preconceived notions these people have of us. Not only that, they are willing to use any means necessary to get what they want, going as far as doxxing the site's administrators (one of whom has since resigned) and driving a former member to her suicide. They cannot be reasoned with, bargained with, and will not stop until Sanctioned Suicide is gone for good.

I have said it before, and I will say it again: Enough is enough. No more mercy. Kindness to those who deserve it. We will not bend the knee. We will not give in to their demands.

 

[Callie Arcale]

I never post in Good bye threads and there are two reasons for that:

1) I don't want to say something generic to a person I don't know, during their final moments. I feel that writing a generic post to a stranger who is faced with taking their own life, is not dignified. Neither do I want to risk saying something wrong, meaning something that might make them feel bad in any way.

2) This forum is not 100% safe, no forums are. Here and everywhere else you find dishonest people. I don't know really know anybody here, although I'd very much like to. In 2020 when I had another account I gave away personal information to a long-time, well-respected member from my own country. He was a man & we exchaned pms. He even proposed we meet and I was considering it. Then suddenly out of nowhere he started abusing me, telling me I was selfish and lacking empathy for other users and for wanting to commmit suicide. He unleashed the most disgusting torrent of bile towards me. I was so shocked and afraid that I deleted the account. I now regret not having informed the mods. Conclusion: I don't know who is hiding behind each user name. It could be someone genuine. It could a predator. It could be someone who genuinly seeks support during their final moments, or it could be a liar seeking attention.

 

[Chinaski]

I never post in Good bye threads and there are two reasons for that:

1) I don't want to say something generic to a person I don't know, during their final moments. I feel that writing a generic post to a stranger who is faced with taking their own life, is not dignified. Neither do I want to risk saying something wrong, meaning something that might make them feel bad in any way.

2) This forum is not 100% safe, no forums are. Here and everywhere else you find dishonest people. I don't know really know anybody here, although I'd very much like to. In 2020 when I had another account I gave away personal information to a long-time, well-respected member from my own country. He was a man & we exchaned pms. He even proposed we meet and I was considering it. Then suddenly out of nowhere he started abusing me, telling me I was selfish and lacking empathy for other users and for wanting to commmit suicide. He unleashed the most disgusting torrent of bile towards me. I was so shocked and afraid that I deleted the account. I now regret not having informed the mods. Conclusion: I don't know who is hiding behind each user name. It could be someone genuine. It could a predator. It could be someone who genuinly seeks support during their final moments, or it could be a liar seeking attention.

This post is 100% correct imo, l think there's often a disconnect between what people think this site should be (safe haven empathy hugs) and what it is in reality (safe haven empathy hugs with a generous helping of bullshitters, manipulators, scammers, abusers, trolls, voyeurs, fetishists on the side).

Would also add here that some of the arguments against the content of @Circles thoughtful posts are viewing the site in a romantic abstract rather than the concrete reality imo. He's not arguing that this site should jettison any core values, but that we should be mindful as to how we proceed. I get that people want to "stick it to the prolifers" right now but if you're suicidal and new to the site you probably really don't want to get caught up in some futile political battle - l personally am suicidal and exhausted, l am not here to fight for a pro-choice movement, there are orgs better placed to do that, if this site is to remain a source of comfort for the suicidal it should definitely not double down on things which can look dubious and be misperceived to outsiders and should be a bit more mature, collectively, about how we treat suicide for both ourselves and those we leave behind.

 

[Callie Arcale]

but that we should be mindful as to how we proceed

A healthy dose of caution is always the best approach. Stay safe everybody, and think thrice before divulging private information!

 

[Someone123]

Mostly not, but peopple still need to be careful about this to protect the site and themselves. It's rare there is something like this, but it can happen.

 

[Silenos]

there are some members who will treat an individual's passing with a callous frivolity, and this is very uncomfortable imo.

Personally I'm going to be offended if there's no callous frivolity in my goodbye thread when the time comes.

 

[Chinaski]

Mostly not, but peopple still need to be careful about this to protect the site and themselves. It's rare there is something like this, but it can happen.

It is definitely not rare and imho people need to use the usual common sense and vigilance they would on a public forum, and then some more, and more thereafter. This is a suicide forum, it doesn't just house the sad and desperate. Sharks swim here.

But this is straying from the point. I've seen too many fakerys on this site to go near a goodbye thread and I've already given my view on the distasteful research questions that pop up in them. I've seen people draw up tallys, rosters, of members who died (or are assumed dead) and repackage it as if it's scientific research. I've seen a live blogged N death turn out to be an N scam, I've seen people do a goodbye thread then return under a new account to watch people grieve for them, I've seen 'new methods' invented with an accompanying fake death, much of this is not oly harmful to the genuine users of this forum but is now clearly being scrutinised by media shitheels looking to do sensationalist hit pieces, and they will present all the bullshit as factual. If the integrity and values of this forum are to remain it falls on us, collectively, to be better, to be mature about the subjects we discuss, a battle with pro-life forces is totally futile but we can keep them at bay with good housekeeping.

 

[motel rooms]

if this site is to remain a source of comfort for the suicidal it should definitely not double down on things which can look dubious and be misperceived to outsiders and should be a bit more mature, collectively, about how we treat suicide for both ourselves and those we leave behind.

But not all SS members are mature. A lot of them have quite impractical ideas & ideals, to put it extremely politely. Nobody can stop those people from exercising their right to free speech. This forum is what it is...

 

[Chinaski]

But not all SS members are mature. A lot of them have quite impractical ideas & ideals, to put it extremely politely. Nobody can stop those people from exercising their right to free speech. This forum is what it is...

True enough. But "free speech" doesn't need to be impeded, people just need to be a tad more careful what they put out when discussing sensitive issues imo.

I don't publish D's address because l know it's harmful to the community, if l did so and a post was deleted subsequently l don't think anyone could argue that my free speech took priority over the forum.

Fwiw l do think research questions in goodbye threads should be absolutely canned as a starting point.

EDIT: I'll add here that some of the less, er, "mature" content needs counterbalancing, some of the silly ideas for ctb methods need to be quickly dispelled in discussion - l think at times the content of this site could give a passing observer the opinion that we're a bunch of immature, irresponsible, impressionable teenagers when that's the dominant content, and obviously this is not representative of the forum as a whole.

 

[Pure]

But this is straying from the point. I've seen too many fakerys on this site to go near a goodbye thread and I've already given my view on the distasteful research questions that pop up in them. I've seen people draw up tallys, rosters, of members who died (or are assumed dead) and repackage it as if it's scientific research. I've seen a live blogged N death turn out to be an N scam, I've seen people do a goodbye thread then return under a new account to watch people grieve for them, I've seen 'new methods' invented with an accompanying fake death, much of this is not oly harmful to the genuine users of this forum but is now clearly being scrutinised by media shitheels looking to do sensationalist hit pieces, and they will present all the bullshit as factual. If the integrity and values of this forum are to remain it falls on us, collectively, to be better, to be mature about the subjects we discuss, a battle with pro-life forces is totally futile but we can keep them at bay with good housekeeping.

I believe you completely. Something that outside media doesn't realize (or they do and simply don't care) is that more exposure to the mainstream will just increase the number of predators and ill wishers who come here to do the things you've described. I've seen at least three users interact with someone they thought was friendly only to be a predator.

I honestly think the website should go private for time being and have a moratorium on people who join for a few weeks. Things are gonna change for the bad with the influx of people who are gonna join for bad intentions. Not even just the predatory types, but the "do gooder" types who'll dox users for their "safety"

 

[Chinaski]

Going to add here that the plethora of HEY NYT READERS FUCK YOU threads, and worse still those people who have actually decided to *literally email the NYT*, are probably not presenting this site in the best way, at best it's cringe and at worst it's harmful, nobody at the NYT gives a fuck for your (or my) feelings, nobody is going to get a fair hearing, it's impotent bellowing into the ether with no strategic aim or viable positive outcome.