Do you think that extinction would be a bad thing?

[Homo erectus]

Do you think China will overtake the US?

This might depend on the outcome of a possible conflict in the region. Or perhaps China is trying avoid such conflict, asking if the U.S. think a different China will be better for them? China answers, it will still be China.

 

[DarkRange55]

@DarkRange55 The sun is the least of our problems. Celestial bodies get further away from each other every year. Said expansion also causes spread of energy. With no signs of FTL travel, we eventually won't have any heat source when ours inevitably stop. Doesn't matter how much star-lifting you do around that. Sure, it's an extremely long time until that, but what could be done?

Another thing that I don't get is how could you get the energy to do that. We are talking about moving or creating multi-million tonnes objects, or worse, creating sources for said huge surfaces, assuming we can't colonize. Where do you get that? Are those amounts practically manageable? Sure, all the energy is there, but then, you need to use it.

I've answered all this in detail on other threads.

 

[Proteus]

I've answered all this in detail on other threads.

Sorry, this forum's search tool is wonky and your profile is restricted, so I can't sort your threads. Wouldn't you happen to have a link at hand...

 

[Pluto]

 

[ForsakenDial]

Extinction is a good thing. Especially if it is humanity. To live is to live at the expense of another organism for almost all creatures. Most animals have to eat other living beings to sustain their existence. They cull the vulnerable and the weak. When one is injured, existence punishes their misfortune. Life is all about rewarding those who are lucky to receive or be born into power. Life is all about punishing those who are born or been afflicted with weakness.

Humanity has embodied that to a new degree due to our intellect. We are not above this, day to day life rewards this belief system. Being cutthroat and hurting others for our own personal gain is how we obtain power. If you hurt someone who is powerless to provide consequence you will never face the repercussions of destroying their life. But they will be injured, which life will punish them further for their weakness. Any coping mechanism evolves into addiction ruins their life and makes everyone else hate them. Any phobia will make them more vulnerable to attack in the future, and lead them to more shame. More habits born from their pain will grow into a debilitation that hurts any chance of recovery.

Everything is self perpetuating. And the injustice of it all is the ultimatum. Extinction of life is the only way to stop a cycle built on rotten foundations.

 

[PetrichorBirth]

I see people say "humanity is resilient, it always survives." However, would extinction necessarily be a bad thing? What are your thoughts on this?

If we assume that all life is built on the principle of wanting to continue your species as a whole, and creating offspring, extinction would be very "bad" i guess, because we as a species failed.

On the other hand, our extinction would leave a lot of space for new eco systems and all kinds of things to develop. I think it's neither good or bad. If it's not us, something else will develop. Turns out, many people have the drive to still develop their family/life-situation.

 

[sserafim]

If we assume that all life is built on the principle of wanting to continue your species as a whole, and creating offspring, extinction would be very "bad" i guess, because we as a species failed.

On the other hand, our extinction would leave a lot of space for new eco systems and all kinds of things to develop. I think it's neither good or bad. If it's not us, something else will develop. Turns out, many people have the drive to still develop their family/life-situation.

Is the species worth continuing though? Why do people care about continuing the species and creating offspring? Personally, it doesn't matter to me

 

[Adûnâi]

Extinction is a good thing. Especially if it is humanity.

But humanity has a chance of exterminating all life on the planet. Whereas without man, this carnage will continue.

 

[PetrichorBirth]

Is the species worth continuing though? Why do people care about continuing the species? Personally, it doesn't matter to me

Some people do have a love for our species. Most people only think about themselves and their immediate surroundings, so they don't "literally" care about continuing the species, but they care about love, sex, support, stability. In pursuing these wants, they contribute to continuing the species. This "big picture" view doesn't matter to most people as well, but indirectly it does through their actions.

It's just nature doing its thing. Think of wolf populations that kill elk, deer, and moose. When these populations are kept under control by the wolves, that means that they wont eat away all the plants. This means that plants are able to grow and flourish, which gives life to many other animals. Wolves don't care about nature preservation of course, they're hungry and just go hunting. But that's still what they contribute to. In the same way that most people might not think about the prospect of continuing the species, but they do it through their actions.

 

[sserafim]

Some people do have a love for our species. Most people only think about themselves and their immediate surroundings, so they don't "literally" care about continuing the species, but they care about love, sex, support, stability. In pursuing these wants, they contribute to continuing the species. This "big picture" view doesn't matter to most people as well, but indirectly it does through their actions.

It's just nature doing its thing. Think of wolf populations that kill elk, deer, and moose. When these populations are kept under control by the wolves, that means that they wont eat away all the plants. This means that plants are able to grow and flourish, which gives life to many other animals. Wolves don't care about nature preservation of course, they're hungry and just go hunting. But that's still what they contribute to. In the same way that most people might not think about the prospect of continuing the species, but they do it through their actions.

Why do they have a love for our species? What is there to love?

 

[PetrichorBirth]

Why do they have a love for our species? What is there to love?

Humanity is so broad and complex, there might be many things that one could love. Some people love the fact that people yearn for love, intimacy, cuddling. Others love that we sing music to eachother. Maybe something thats more close, some people love the fact that we're able to connect to eachother through the internet like this. We're able to share our thoughts, open up. That is pretty great in my opinion

 

[sserafim]

Extinction is a good thing. Especially if it is humanity. To live is to live at the expense of another organism for almost all creatures. Most animals have to eat other living beings to sustain their existence. They cull the vulnerable and the weak. When one is injured, existence punishes their misfortune. Life is all about rewarding those who are lucky to receive or be born into power. Life is all about punishing those who are born or been afflicted with weakness.

Humanity has embodied that to a new degree due to our intellect. We are not above this, day to day life rewards this belief system. Being cutthroat and hurting others for our own personal gain is how we obtain power. If you hurt someone who is powerless to provide consequence you will never face the repercussions of destroying their life. But they will be injured, which life will punish them further for their weakness. Any coping mechanism evolves into addiction ruins their life and makes everyone else hate them. Any phobia will make them more vulnerable to attack in the future, and lead them to more shame. More habits born from their pain will grow into a debilitation that hurts any chance of recovery.

Everything is self perpetuating. And the injustice of it all is the ultimatum. Extinction of life is the only way to stop a cycle built on rotten foundations.

Why do you think that life is like this?

 

[Ferdinand Bardamu]

Yes.

 

[DarkRange55]

"Save the world"? What is that even supposed to mean lmao? Save what, rocks? Infusoriae? Feces?


A much more sensible solution would be to drain the Sun of its Hydrogen lmao via star lifting.


Regarding the latter point - I'm not sure that's feasible because enforcing submission with enough light lag would be difficult. And without enforcing submission, all such a civilisation would be doing is breed potential enemies. That's my argument for remaining in a single solar system - or a few dozen at most.


Any ideology that doubts its right to exist will go extinct, so there's your answer. There is nothing beyond reality. We don't give a shit about Zeus because Zeus got cucked by Yeshua. And if you lose the war, everyone will spit on you and forget you.

David Shapiro considers human extinction a neutral outcome in case of AI singularity because a negative one would be human suffering.

Just no - but whatever I'm not going to entertain this…

 

[ForsakenDial]

Why do you think that life is like this?

Being abused all my life taught me this lesson. You first discover this pattern of behavior in people. Then in society. Then in nature. You begin to see life for what it is. It is a battle of power dynamics.

People in positions of power enjoy the abuse of those they have power over. Those who do not will be punished in one way or another. I gave my all for people for people who were more vulnerable than me. When they were in a better position than me they turned around betrayed me. They joined my bullies, they used the things I shared with them against me.

Most of the time I am not in a position above anyone. When you are truly defenseless and weaker than everyone around you they show you their true nature. Do not judge someone for how they treat someone above or equal to them, but how they treat those below them. You'll see the evil dancing behind their eyes, and their endless cruelty.

Most people do not need a motivation other than seeing someone being vulnerable. Every aspect of life punishes the vulnerable. An animal breaks a leg, they can't run. They will die, because predators will find them and kill them. I see this no different than humans seeing another form of vulnerable in a person. Its a pattern. The less power something has to change its fate, the more grim that fate becomes.

 

[sserafim]

Being abused all my life taught me this lesson. You first discover this pattern of behavior in people. Then in society. Then in nature. You begin to see life for what it is. It is a battle of power dynamics.

People in positions of power enjoy the abuse of those they have power over. Those who do not will be punished in one way or another. I gave my all for people for people who were more vulnerable than me. When they were in a better position than me they turned around betrayed me. They joined my bullies, they used the things I shared with them against me.

Most of the time I am not in a position above anyone. When you are truly defenseless and weaker than everyone around you they show you their true nature. Do not judge someone for how they treat someone above or equal to them, but how they treat those below them. You'll see the evil dancing behind their eyes, and their endless cruelty.

Most people do not need a motivation other than seeing someone being vulnerable. Every aspect of life punishes the vulnerable. An animal breaks a leg, they can't run. They will die, because predators will find them and kill them. I see this no different than humans seeing another form of vulnerable in a person. Its a pattern. The less power something has to change its fate, the more grim that fate becomes.

Unfortunately, life is just a game of survival. "The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must". Why do you think that power dynamics are inevitable?

 

[ForsakenDial]

Unfortunately, life is just a game of survival. "The strong do what they will and the weak suffer what they must". Why do you think that power dynamics are inevitable?

If life is the rewarding the strong at the expense of the weak then it is immoral. Sentience is a tragedy because with it comes being acutely aware of the innate injustice of life. This does not mean someone should or have to commit suicide to be moral, or that killing everyone and everything is the way to resolve it. Antinatalism, or the refusal to reproduce would be the moral choice.

Power dynamics are inevitable as a whole because we sustain ourselves off them. I do not have a bleeding heart for the cooked rabbit that may lay on my plate. I am aware that it was a living being who due to its lesser strength, intellect, and circumstance had resulted in its death. Things entirely out of its control had punished it. And we sustain ourselves off this punishment.

These power dynamics are inevitable interpersonally because we humans are still animals. People sustain and evolve their ego, power, and station via the destruction of others. Our devices are made off the backs of people living in horrid conditions. We see in society no matter where we go the more cruel someone is the higher they rise in station. Depending on the nation woman are seen so less than they are abused worst than cattle. These are example of these very power dynamics. They exist as a whole within society, but also exist on a microscale. An abusive boss, abusive siblings or parents, everywhere you look dynamics exist and are abused.

Those who do not abuse them will not be rewarded in kindness in return by those they rather helped. Other people punish you for your kindness. Putting your all for someone, and sacrificing for them makes them resent you. They hate you for your weakness, as kindness and weakness is one in the same for most people. Someone is always going to be more vulnerable than another. And that is where those dynamics are birthed. People chase power specifically to abuse them. Its too beneficial for most not to.

 

[The Ninth God]

I see people say "humanity is resilient, it always survives." However, would extinction necessarily be a bad thing? What are your thoughts on this?

Humanity is just another animal and as such it will inevitably going extinct. Why? Because true immortality does not exists. No matter what species you are and how long you will survive; you will die. One day an internal or external factor will kill everybody and there will be nothing you can do. Also, humanity is already doomed to extinction because their genetic pool is full of malformations since decades, it's becoming infertile and also IQ is lowering so much that, even without the first two factors, it will end up like Idiocracy. You cannot escape from chaos/entrophy; death is just a consequence, another name for it.