Do you think suicide is bad at all?

[rationaldeath]

Is it ever wrong to take your own life? Do we all have the right to do it regardless of our state of mind or whether we would have lived a happy life if we hadn't? Do we need to be suffering to a certain degree for it to be okay?

Personally the only thing I view as bad is the experience of suffering, and I don't see pleasure/happiness as outweighing it in general. So to me the state of being dead is at worst completely morally neutral. You could argue suicide causes suffering to others, but intuitively I don't feel it is right to force someone to suffer just to prevent others from suffering.

 

[just_wanna_die]

You could argue suicide causes suffering to others, but intuitively I don't feel it is right to force someone to suffer just to prevent others from suffering.

I've heard how some people will say that suicide is a "selfish" act.

Being told that you are being selfish because *I* will suffer your loss after you kill yourself.

Well, isn't THAT being selfish on your part? Guilt-tripping me to stay and suffer indefinitely in this cruel world just so YOU won't grieve for a while after I'm gone?

 

[som1]

we all are going to die, deciding to go a bit earlier is completely neutral, even if the person committing ctb has the best life coming ahead of him.

 

[greencondo]

There are sometimes where suicide has made, who would be considered "survivors" lives, much worse, for various reasons. The fact that their lives (often times loved ones of there's) is worse, is bad thing to them, one could say. Loved ones are also at a much higher risk of personal struggles and even suicide.
Or it might leave others with a financial or legal mess to clean up in their wake, that they themselves didn't want to deal with.

Or when someone charged with serious crimes kills himself before he gives information that would help the families or solve cases. etc. That could be considered bad.

There are other times it's a tragedy. Some cases where it's a young child being bullied, or someone acting impulsively that might have changed their mind the next day, something could of been done to help them, etc.
The guy who mistakenly thought he was in debt for all that money on robinhood (the app apparently was misleading) or the guy in Puerto Rico that killed himself after so long of no power and necessities after the hurricane. Help arrived the next day. Had he held out just one more day, but he would have no way of knowing. Tragedy, in my opinion.

 

[waitingforrest]

Personally, I don't really care if it's bad or not, the thing is I'm still going to do it at some point. There are people who say suicide is selfish, but I find it just as selfish to keep someone alive against their will. People put down animals all the time, but get mad when a human wants to die. A person can only take so much pain before life isn't worth it anymore.

 

[motel rooms]

You could argue suicide causes suffering to others, but intuitively I don't feel it is right to force someone to suffer just to prevent others from suffering.

Yeah, it's a little more complicated than that, especially when people have kids...

 

[greencondo]

Yeah, it's a little more complicated than that, especially when people have kids...

I just wrote something like this but my comment is pending approval for some reason.

Lots of factors to consider here.

 

[deflationary]

It's never bad for the person that's dead. You need to be alive for something to be bad for you.

It can seriously harm other people though, so depending on the exact situation, I might or might not disapprove of suicide on those grounds. I don't think parents of dependent kids should generally be killing themselves, for example. I think everyone that's killing themselves should at least give some thought to how it's gonna affect other people.

If you're barely suffering and your death would cause a lot of harm to other people, then I'd probably say it's wrong to do it. But is that ever even the case? Does anyone that's barely suffering kill themselves? I think even most "impulsive" suicides have a lot more suffering behind them than most people acknowledge. So idk. I can conceive of situations where I think suicide would be rash and selfish, but I'm not sure how common they actually are.

 

[Fragile]

I'm not going to talk about whether or not life would've fundamentally changed to the point where it is worth living, that's really impossible to know and ultimately makes no difference once someone already died.

While the act itself may not be necessarily bad on its own, I do think that the circumstances around it can definitely make it a very negative action.
Not everyone is the same, and this also applies to their reasoning. Some people purposefully choose the most messy methods completely disregarding the safety of others, many times with the intention of causing harm as an act of revenge.

Now, I don't want to imply that every suicide is carried out in such way, in fact I'd say that many of us do the opposite, carefully designing a plan to lessen the impact of our death and the aftermath of our discovery, hence the reason why we write letters as an act of closure both for ourselves and others. But those letters can also be used to harm and condemn.

Saying that suicide is never selfish and always good or neutral is a really one sided perspective. Both the action of wanting someone to stay and the act of ending it are inherently selfish to some degree. Truly selfless actions do exist, but I consider them an extreme rarity, and since suicide is something meant to solve, or rather escape the problems of the individual, I find it being more selfish than keeping someone in this world.

Not that there's anything wrong with selfishness, but that and it's interpretation is an entirely different discussion.

 

[diyCTB]

Of course they tell you it's selfish. They don't feel your pain and think about themselves firsthand without realizing their own selfishness. If they felt your pain would they project on you? Is it your problem they forced life into you and told you to deal with it?

 

[motel rooms]

It can seriously harm other people though, so depending on the exact situation, I might or might not disapprove of suicide on those grounds. I don't think parents of dependent kids should generally be killing themselves, for example. I think everyone that's killing themselves should at least give some thought to how it's gonna affect other people.

I'm fine with severely mentally ill, unfit parents killing themselves.

 

[greencondo]

sometimes it is done in self motives tho. There are some that do it to avoid having to deal with problems and leaving others to clean up the mess. Some even do it because of that. That does happen.
Its not always the case, but it happens.

Of course they tell you it's selfish. They don't feel your pain and think about themselves firsthand without realizing their own selfishness. If they felt your pain would they project on you? Is it your problem they forced life into you and told you to deal with it?

 

[deflationary]

I'm fine with severely mentally ill, unfit parents killing themselves.

True. Not every parent is better than no parent.

 

[Hirokami]

Suicide itself isn't bad. It's the circumstances which would lead someone to suicide that are often unfortunate to say the least.

 

[Insomniac]

Do we all have the right to do it regardless of our state of mind or whether we would have lived a happy life if we hadn't?

my answer to that is yes. It's okay for anyone to suicide.

You could argue suicide causes suffering to others

In the past, I would have answered differently. I would have said something like " suicide needs to be considered carefully and the person who wants to die needs to seriously consider the pain of their loved ones etc"

but now, now that it's clear that prolifers have zero regards for us after all they have done to us, I have become a lot more radical. you see, it's necessary. to compensate for their lack of consideration for us.

now I think that life has zero value and that suicide can be a lightly made decision. after all, most people chose to lightly to give birth and end up ruining their child's life.

 

[diyCTB]

but now, now that it's clear that prolifers have zero regards for us after all they have done to us, I have become a lot more radical. you see, it's necessary. to compensate for their lack of consideration for us.

Instead of looking for a root cause behind circumstances that lead to suicides they fight the symptoms and do a bad job at it. This kind of attitude added fuel to my already negative and cynical outlook.

@_Minsk I thought I am the only weird person who picks up snails on pavement and moves them to a safe place from being crushed...

 

[Death is beautiful]

We will die anyway and our relatives will be equally bad whether it is suicide or natural death, so why not do it earlier, controlling the whole process

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

I think no matter what (except maybe in some rare cases that I can't figure out at the moment), that suicide is simply a sign that something bad is happening for the suicidal person in question, whatever it may be. I think it's safe to say no one who believes their life is going great (and I mean actually great according to the person not to society's or anyone else's standards) even needs to consider suicide especially also if nothing too bad ever happened in their past either.

Sometimes these factors that are making someone's life feel bad enough to crave suicide are indeed preventable or treatable, but certainly not all are especially not with the lack of access to adequate resources that many struggling people inevitably face. Suicide doesn't have to be bad, especially if the situation causing one to look for it is far worse but that's something one is going to have to determine on their own.

 

[rex_deceptorum]

We do mot need anyone's blessing or permission! The only judgement that counts is my ow, because happiness and meaning are purely subjective. I might care about hurting my loved ones, but Ican only LAUGH at people who tell me that I have "societal obligations" ! I do not! Unless I blow myself inside an airport or something , my death won't make a difference. No one's death will.

 

[diyCTB]

I think it's safe to say no one who believes their life is going great (and I mean actually great according to the person not to society's or anyone else's standards) even needs to consider suicide especially also if nothing too bad ever happened in their past either.

Some cases are very subjective that need someone's objective input to help exhaust all possible options before pulling the cord. Someone's life can be objectively good but they may see it as subjectively bad because their significant other dumped them, or someone else who's too desperate for sexual relationship doesn't get it. Such cases are a passing struggles that leave wounds behind them that require time to heal so they can move on and do not warrant taking own life considering all other aspects of life are good.

As for me and my outlook, don't summon me from a place of tranquility and nothingness and force me into something worse. If you can't offer me equal existence on earth then don't waste my time by subjecting me to a world where there's a chance I may suffer or end up bad or kill myself just because you two were horny one night and could care less. Hold you egoism at bay and leave me be enjoying my own heaven.

 

[Dr Iron Arc]

Some cases are very subjective that need someone's objective input to help exhaust all possible options before pulling the cord. Someone's life can be objectively good but they may see it as subjectively bad because their significant other dumped them, or someone else who's too desperate for sexual relationship doesn't get it. Such cases are a passing struggles that leave wounds behind them that require time to heal so they can move on and do not warrant taking own life considering all other aspects of life are good.

Eh, that describes me exactly and I'm still quite certain it's my time to go. Then again I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for everyone in the same boat. I just know that in my case my sexual desperation has completely warped me into an irredeemable monster who even if he did end up getting with someone it will probably happen too late and by then I'll only be able to get rid of the desire to CTB by passing it on to some unlucky soul(s). In my case, I've come to the decision that my CTB is also for the good of my future ex-wife and unborn children.

Most of the people you describe though are either still around 18 or their early 20s well I'm almost 28 years old and still a single, kissless, dateless virgin so rather than waste someone else's time ruining their life I already know it's too late to even try. I can only hope this makes my suicide more of a good thing than I could ever hope to achieve in life…

 

[BeansOfRequirement]

Does anyone that's barely suffering kill themselves?

 

[demuic]

Do we all have the right to do it regardless of our state of mind or whether we would have lived a happy life if we hadn't?

There's no guarantee that someone would have lived a happy life had they not committed suicide in any case. Sudden illness/disability, loss of a job/income, or any other tragedy can strike at any time and completely change the trajectory of life. No one can see the future despite what suicide preventionists would like to believe.

The only times I think it's bad is in the case of parents of dependent children. They made the choice to bring someone into this shitty world, only to decide it's too much to deal with once they realize everything isn't sunshine and roses. Making the cycle of misery start all over again. At the very least they should ensure they leave their kids in the hands of a trusted and capable caregiver with some amount of money, so they don't have the possibility of being abused in some foster system.

 

[Depressed Cat]

Suicide by itself is not bad at all! One has every right to end one's life by oneself.

In my opinion, there are two negative things associated with suicide:

1. The fate of dependents: An example is those cases where parents of minor children commit suicide and leave them orphaned.
2. The aftermath: Not all suicides are peaceful, for there are many which are bloody messy or extremely traumatic (can even cause PTSD) to others.

 

[little helpers]

define "wrong"? define "bad"?

"wrong" is a highly moralistic term. it's one for the living, ironically or unironically, cuz you're not there to be judged and feel guilt when you've ceased to exist. it means taboo. means fear of prosecution and exclusion. it means karma or Hell, a concept of revenge seeped into our heads by grabbing onto our need for safety. it means nonconformity, bad reputation in the "tribe". and if you read some anthropology you'd know how reputation is a real big deal in terms of survival, for social animals like humans. but if person's gonna die in a second anyways, survival becomes the last thing on their mind. Heaven or Hell becomes irrelevant. doesn't matter if person's gonna get kicked out or marginalized, when they've already exiled themselves from life.

whereas "bad" can mean something more definable. like, if the event unnecessarily traumatized others. still, there's a lot of nuances here. there was a post on "utilitarian suicide" here a while back, where we each try to conceptualize what good or harm really means. I think at the end of the day, you can't really argue if life or death really carries all that weight most people think it's supposed to. existence is just existence. good or bad it exists. nonexistence is just nonexistence. good or bad it's no longer there.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Suicide is a reflection of the person's reality. For someone to overcome SI and succeed, their life has to be that much worse of a nightmare. I'm not stupid or selfish enough to tell someone to prolong their own suffering. Its moronic. Its just another issue among hundreds that people allow their emotions to get in the way of rationality.

 

[YourNeighbor]

Tl;dr - It depends, the questions are vague.

Some commenters have picked up on these issues, but the title and questions posed are not well defined. More ambiguity arises because some of the question is premised on whether people have the right to end their life. Some of the question is premised on whether suicide can be bad (not the best course under the circumstances) or wrong (in a moral sense).

In a vacuum, suicide is not good or bad or immoral. It just is. Context matters.

Of course, whether one has the right to do something and whether something is bad or immoral are two different concepts. One can have the right to do something, yet that something can still be a bad or immoral thing. We have the right to eat only pure sugar. It still is bad to. We have the right to not tip a good server at a restaurant. Still, it's wrong not to. We have the right to buy up affordable housing units, triple the rent, and evict those who cannot pay. Still, it's wrong to do so.

Because context matters, suicide can be relatively good (as in, better than the status quo, though these are all tragic cases) or bad (a poor choice) or even immoral (think abandoning dependents or using a method that involves others without their consent).

Quantitative studies that look at suicide show us, based on failed attempts and survivors' future acts, that many attempts are made when suicide is not the best option. Anecdotal evidence from this website is consistent with that. It follows that many suicides are likely "bad," in that they were unnecessary and not the best course of action. Some suicides are even wrong (though the mental state of the suicide may excuse a harsh moral judgment of the person, as opposed to the act).

Do people have a right, even in the depths of despair and despite being not fully informed, to decide to end their lives early? Sure, but that choice can still be a bad thing and sometimes even wrong. The only way we can conclude suicide is never bad or wrong is if we take the position that our actions only matter to us. That would be an ironic position to take here, given how many here identify their pain as caused by others' actions.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

Do people have a right, even in the depths of despair and despite being not fully informed, to decide to end their lives early? Sure, but that choice can still be a bad thing and sometimes even wrong.

This is the crux of the argument when its made in good faith. The problem is that the alternative is to put the authority in other people's hands. We've seen how well that has worked out for us.

 

[YourNeighbor]

This is the crux of the argument when its made in good faith. The problem is that the alternative is to put the authority in other people's hands. We've seen how well that has worked out for us.

I'm not sure "the authority" is in anyone else's hands. If I determined to die as soon as possible, I could be dead within the hour, with or without anyone's permission.

I think some on here conflate whether we should have an absolute right to demand that others assist us with suicide, no questions asked (say, Nembutal injections on demand, like OTC aspirin) with whether we are free to suicide. These issues are not the same.

 

[Feeding Pigeons]

I'm not sure "the authority" is in anyone else's hands. If I determined to die as soon as possible, I could be dead within the hour, with or without anyone's permission.

I think some on here conflate whether we should have an absolute right to demand others assist us with suicide, no questions asked (say, Nembutal injections on demand, like OTC aspirin) with whether we are free to suicide. These issues are not the same.

I say that because I have seen first hand what happens when a therapist hits the brick wall of the patient being suicidal. I'm not talking about demanding others to assist us. I'm saying the massive fear that comes from dealing with suicidality because of legal reasons. Thats a problem.