Do you think someone suicidal is selfish?

[blackheart]

A few days ago I was in the middle of a conversation at work and one of my colleagues came over and told me he had read about somebody who committed suicide by jumping in front of a train and he said something like: " Somebody who decides to die is by default selfish because you need to man up and live this bloody life no matter what".

I had to run away from the office because I thought I would punch his awful face and I was struggling to keep myself together. I think of death and suicide more than anything else (e.g., sex, family, whatsoever) and I contemplate it as a beautiful way out from this disgusting society and he dares say somebody who is that brave to do so is selfish?!?!?!? If I bloody decide to kiil myself I do it because I don't want to be a weight for other people. How can this be selfish?

Some people are simply disgusting and out of touch! I hate that suicide idealisation is demonised constantly!

 

[squirley]

A few days ago I was in the middle of a conversation at work and one of my colleagues came over and told me he had read about somebody who committed suicide by jumping in front of a train and he said something like: " Somebody who decides to die is by default selfish because you need to man up and live this bloody life no matter what".

These are common beliefs....I've had them at one point in time.
"You're a pussy if you ctb etc "
If you have kids it is selfish.....

I had to run away from the office because I thought I would punch his awful face and I was struggling to keep myself together.

Ran away where??

I think of death and suicide more than anything else (e.g., sex, family, whatsoever) and I contemplate it as a beautiful way out from this disgusting society and he dares say somebody who is that brave to do so is selfish?!?!?!? If I bloody decide to kiil myself I do it because I don't want to be a weight for other people. How can this be selfish?

Exactly... its the choice that matters
You gotta remember maybe this person is doing very well....
Mind....body.....spirit...financial...
Not the same views.

"Some people are simply disgusting and out of touch! I hate that suicide idealisation is demonised constantly!"

Did you say anything about being pro choice? Or explain that maybe buddy jumped on the train because he had cancer?

I get your frustration and agree....
Just like when people say don't judge your self ..
Your not a failure .... shit like this.

You can't say one person can't choose what they want to do .... when you have no idea of their circumstances

 

[Praestat_Mori]

Suicide itself isn't "selfish" at all rather it shows the courage needed to end one's endless agony and sufferings from this excistance or to end a life one is not ready to live it or one does simply not want to be forced to live. When it comes to jumping in front of a train, yes it's a legal method, but it traumatizes especially the driver, who is innocent, in regards to the problems one may have in their lives, to commit suicide. So this part is a bit questionable as there would be other methods, that may not traumatize and/or injure innocent people.

As my avatar says: Mori praestat, quam haec pati = it's better to die but to suffer this. Or in other words (freely), a honorable suicide is better than any agony and suffering one is not ready to endure.

 

[LastBusHome]

In and of itself, not necessarily. Wouldn't it likewise be selfish to ask someone who is suffering to prolong that suffering for the sake of others? Public suicide is pretty selfish though. It's like public displays of kink, the audience is unconsenting. Feels like a dick move to traumatize and involve people who have absolutely nothing to do with what you got going on. I can, however, empathize if that's your only feasible means to CTB. Which would be unfortunate but we all deserve a way out.

 

[Vizzy]

A few days ago I was in the middle of a conversation at work and one of my colleagues came over and told me he had read about somebody who committed suicide by jumping in front of a train and he said something like: " Somebody who decides to die is by default selfish because you need to man up and live this bloody life no matter what".

I had to run away from the office because I thought I would punch his awful face and I was struggling to keep myself together. I think of death and suicide more than anything else (e.g., sex, family, whatsoever) and I contemplate it as a beautiful way out from this disgusting society and he dares say somebody who is that brave to do so is selfish?!?!?!? If I bloody decide to kiil myself I do it because I don't want to be a weight for other people. How can this be selfish?

Some people are simply disgusting and out of touch! I hate that suicide idealisation is demonised constantly!

People who say all these kind of buzz words are more suicidal, they just find themselves satisfied and relevant by advising others on this topic because I was like your colleague few years before giving other people advice like this but people life change, situation change and new problems come in life then this same person will say that suicide is not selfish

It all depends on people current situation in their life, person thinking changes as per their life!

 

[FuneralCry]

It's really ridiculous what that person was saying, they sound insane as the fact is that nobody is obligated to continue enduring existence until they die anyway and it's a personal choice when to leave. Instead I think it's so selfish for people to procreate and expect that person to continue existing as a result of doing the harmful thing of burdening that person with existence.
It certainly is disgusting to want to make existence into a prison, without the option of suicide existence is basically slavery, and I bet it would be different if something happened to make that person wish to die, the reality is that existing can very easily get much more unbearable for everyone.

But overall if people want to endure this futile existence which leads to nothing other than us being tortured by old age then that's fine for them but they need to accept that not everyone feels the same way. I cannot stand interfering pro-lifers who cannot mind their own business and are in denial of the fact that wanting suicide is perfectly logical in this horrible world.

 

[Rust20]

To be selfish is at the expense of others. Your family will probably be devastated by your absence, But a stranger saying that you are selfish for such thoughts or desires(and even actions) is completely wrong.

 

[ZM4ever]

I'm bipolar and having manic lows I often feel great despair- after my dad died (in my arms) it was really bad you know.
Being around my mother, a very strong person all my life- seeing and hearing her wishing to die... it just hit me so hard.
I feel she's selfish. (hypocritically) But being in the same state of mind, it just gives me perspective I guess.
I understand why people would feel I'm selfish. I don't care, but I understand.

 

[prospero]

You can make an argument that you have responsibility for the welfare of your children so in this sense ctb may seem selfish. But on the other hand suicidal people usually reach a point where they see that their total contribution to their family is actually negative so from that (warped?) point of view it's more of a selfless than a selfish act.

An ex-colleague of mine had severe chronic pain and the cause couldn't be found. He couldn't work while the medical bills were just piling up. He thought that he not only cannot provide for his family but he actually would drag them into debt and poverty. So he committed suicide. I don't think that his act was selfish. Did he make the right decision? I'm not sure. But it wasn't selfish.

I think the debate whether suicide is selfish or not is a bad approach to the subject and it's not helpful at all. If someone is already in agony, pain and debilitating anxiety, labeling his/her suicidal ideation as pondering an utterly selfish act lacks any compassion and selflessness. Not to say that this kind of conversation isn't effective at all if you wan't to help someone or prevent suicide. It just causes a lot of additional pain and blame. It doesn't help the family left behind either because placing blame on either themselves or the person who committed suicide is not a solution to come to terms with the suicide of their loved one.

Me personally, I just don't care about this aspect. I'm aware of the trauma my death would cause but I just wouldn't let this alone keep me alive. This cannot be the single motivation to live. Nevertheless currently I'm staying alive only for my family but I know that I need to find a better reason. Externalising your reason to live can be only a short term "life hack". So if you feel that useful to think that suicide is a selfish act, use it for your own self, but you cannot build anything on this because it's just not a solid truth.

 

[Source Energy]

Yes. But so are the ones who want us to stick around for them. We all only feel our own pain, so we have to be selfish.

 

[Forever Sleep]

The train method itself is more selfish than other methods to my mind because it has the potential to severly traumatize the driver and the people who have to collect the decimated corpse. I do understand that some people are so utterly desperate though and can see no other means of escaping... seeing as so many methods are so heavily restricted/illegal.

In terms of the act itself- it kind of is and it isn't selfish. It likely will upset people left behind. That's selfish- because we are putting our own needs first. Still- I've always associated sefishness with personal gain- we're not trying to gain anything- we're simply trying to escape.

It's selfish to expect someone in pain- whatever pain that is to continue on with their lives because- 'Oh but that will upset ME if you go.' I firmly believe that if people REALLY love us- they should make more effort to see just how difficult we are finding our lives- and- if they can't help (which they usually can't by this stage)- let us go. People likely would be more willing to do it if the pain was terminal illness but I guess psychological/ situational pain is more difficult to guage.

Ultimately- we didn't choose to be born. I'd say having children IS selfish. I'd argue- it's more selfish to dump a new sentient life into this mess and expect them to get on with it and be happy and grateful about it than it is to make the decision to end your own life.

I think people like your guy at work feel an overwhelming obligation to live and make the best of it. I just wonder if they ever stop and question where this obligation comes from- and- why.

Maybe they do have supportive friends and family and they geninely feel obligated to them- great. Many people who are suicidal have histories littered with abuse and trauma- sometimes involving family members. Why should we feel obliged to spare their feelings when they are part of the reason we are where we are?!! Not that I'm advocating for suicide as revenge but some people here have had the most horrendous experiences at the hands of others. It's about time their feelings were taken into consideration ie. they've been utterly destroyed by other people already. Why should they now feel obligated to anyone when they weren't protected?

Plus- while we may love our parents- they don't own our lives. They decided to procreate- knowing how difficult life is and knowing they won't/ can't always be there for us. Personally- I do actually want to hang on till my Dad dies to go (my Mum is already dead.) Still- when people's pain levels reach a certain level- it can just overwhealm everything else.

Really though- feeling obligated to stay for society- because it's what's expected of you seems like sheeple behaviour to me. I utterly hate being part of this capitalist bull shit. Work yourself into the ground to make rich people richer- what's so honourable about that?!!

Honestly- I've been so naive up until now about pro-lifers. I actually stupidly thought we might be able to have rational, civilized conversations with them but I've realised they just make us feel like shit- and ironically- even more suicidal! It's really no wonder people don't talk about their ideation with others when that's the response. I'm sorry you had that experience with that guy. I would have hated that too.

 

[Hollowman]

No

 

[greyblue_bian]

A few months ago, my aunt (I still live with her) came back home from a trip with a friend after a week or so and told us that she didn't actually go there for a break, she went there because her friend's brother-in-law had killed himself. To me and the rest of my family, she blatantly repeated in some kind of frustrated tone that he was selfish and that he could have just called someone as everyone was saying how they would have spoke to him. Still today, I have no words. None. My uncle just agreed with her and my cousins and I were all just silent because all 3 of us are/were suicidal and have attempted at least once. I still wonder if any of the people she said she comforted at the funeral know about what she had to say. These kinds of people would never think to say these things in front of others, but only behind closed doors. These kinds of people get to me. They are the kinds of people that would declare themselves generally good people, too. Whatever "good" means, honestly.

 

[MourningBird]

It is selfish but that's not what's wrong with it. What's wrong with suicide is the lack of understanding people have about it, and just mental health in general.

 

[LaVieEnRose]

Could be, especially if the potential suicidee in question has dependents. So could be not wanting someone to CTB. There are many things that I would like people in my life to do that they're not going to do if I demanded they do. What you want and what others want aren't always going to coincide and always yielding to what others want isn't a good way for anyone to live. So it depends.

"Selfish" calls to mind callous disregard of others. I would venture to say that that doesn't accurately describe most people here.

Of course when it comes to the execution of the act rather than the act itself there are certainly ways that could be considered more "selfish" than others.

 

[brokeandbroken]

To be honest if the most selfish thing you do in life is commit suicide I think you are fine. Society generally speaking refuses to help those who need it but when you commit suicide to rid yourself of the pain and agony of life they mock you for it. Simply put society is infinitely more selfish.

 

[LittleJem]

Research shows that people who successfully commit suicide have differently structured brains (less white matter). Suicide is a known risk and outcome of clinical depression which is also a medical condition, not a lifestyle choice. Being suicidal is a medical condition in many cases and committing suicide is the culmination of that medical condition.

So calling people selfish for having a medical condition that tortures them until they commit suicide is both unfair and ignorant. No-one gets called selfish for having a stroke or having cancer. But people with invisible brain conditions get called selfish just because their illness is not understood.

For me, I have lived over ten years with constant suicidal thoughts, looking for a solution so I don't hurt others. It's pretty unbearable. Some of my family if not most of them will still see me as selfish, because depression and mental illness does not make me a good member of the family. I don't think this one is winnable, but it is medical. Even though it's invisible.

Two relevant papers:

Findings showed a lower volume of the thalamus and pallidum and a smaller surface area of the inferior parietal lobe in adults with MDD and a history of suicide attempts (N = 679) compared to individuals with MDD without a history of suicide attempt (N = 5484).
Source: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41380-022-01734-0

And this paper shows there is a difference in neuro-circuitry, the brain structure, neurotransmitters and more in suicidal and successful suicides: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7676389/

 

[Unhumanly.]

Isn't it way more selfish to keep the people to suffer with the unbearable pain?
Isn't it way more selfish that other won't even try to understand what the person have tried, and then say that they're not trying hard enough?

It's the way of people and life isn't it, can anything change it? to me personally, I wish I couldn't care about what they think and simply go because nothing that can be done can lead to what can be say is "right"

 

[peaceindeath]

People who won't let your suffering stop because they have some idea of what humans should be like are the selfish and twisted ones. If they try they would probably understand, but they refuse. Because they feel their little ideas of morality are more important than the will of a suffering mind.

 

[inmyhead]

Personally I think it's more selfish of everyone else to continue making someone suffer endlessly because they will be hurt when you're gone. We don't make terminally ill cancer patients fight for every last bit of survival, they are allowed to withdraw medical care if they choose to. Suicidal people should have the same option.

 

[StaticCryBabye]

That colleague of yours truly missed the mark with his callous and ignorant remark. It takes immense strength and courage to battle the demons that haunt our minds, and contemplating suicide is an incredibly complex and personal struggle. To label it as selfish is to oversimplify and dismiss the profound pain one may experience. It's disheartening that society often stigmatizes and demonizes discussions about suicide, leaving those in need feeling isolated and invalidated.

 

[SCDLKD]

I don't think suicide itself it's a selfish act but certain methods could be kinda selfish. That guy who jumped over the tracks of the train, I understand he was desperate to end his suffering, but he probably left a fucked up image to all of the people who where there.

So, yes, certain methods could be kinda selfish. But hey, sometimes we need to think only in ourselves, so if you are desperate then go ahead, fuck it, some people would probably say horrible things about us bcs we're suicidal so fuck them too

 

[Valky]

Yes and no.

some methods that are purely intended to be publicly seen just being a big 'why?' With them. It is more just straight out stupid instead of selfish.

But jumping in front of a train is (sadly) quite a common method. We don't have many available options. As unfair as it is for bystanders, I do not blame someone for choosing to jump in front of a train.

What your coworker said tho is straight out stupid. People suffer differently, people handle pain differently. Deciding doesn't mean to be weak but to have had to be strong for too long. You can't compare pain and suffering so what does he know. Of course everyone has problems but that still doesn't justify what he said.

Suicide can have many methods. In general it is both, selfish and at the same time justified. I don't know if that makes much sense..